Dog Dukkha

[camerata]

Anyone know what this soi dog might have? Half its face is eaten away and it looks like it's just staggered out of John Carpenter's movie, The Thing.

The other dogs generally won't go near it unless they're all after food.

[sbk]

Oh that is terrible camerata, just terrible.

I suspect he has been in a fight and had wounds to his face which have been infested by maggots which are, as anyone with the stomach to click on the photo will be able to see, eating his face away.

I've only seen it this bad once, a cat I tried to save. But in the end, it was too bad and I had to put him down. But, I have had several dogs get holes with maggots and my experience has always been that the maggots make the wound worse, not better. So, perhaps they are from a different fly than the ones in the studies that show maggots only eat dead or rotting flesh.

[qualtrough]

Oh the horror, the horror.

Reminds me of the time a friend and I saw a cute little baby monkey clinging to its money near a temple down South. We both stopped and remarked about how cute the scene was. Then the baby turned its head to reveal that the other half of its face had been ripped to shreds.

[jdinasia]

Cancer

[BambinA]

Cancer

Spot on.

It looks like Venereal Granuloma ,VG (aka. Transmissible Venereal Tumor (TVT) )

Tx = Vincristine IV q.1wk

Edited June 24, 2007 by BambinA

[jdinasia]

It doesn't take being a vet to identify cancer that has apparently metasticised

[sbk]

Call me wrong then, but I have seen animals with similar wounds and it was not cancer but from fighting.

[BambinA]

Im my opinion, I think it looks like TVT 90% becoz

1) nodule from ( from the 1st pic ,you can see at his tail and leg)

2) clauliflower like , britter and easily bleeding

3) The mass at his prepuce (pic1)

Differential diagnosis

- mast cell tomour

Need Biopsy and cytology

Usually, for TVT treatment,prognosis is good if the mass is not so big and if it is located at genital parts

From the diffused from likes this dog,Prognosis is poor.

Edited June 24, 2007 by BambinA

[sbk]

Not doubting your diagnosis bambi, just wondering why jd feels the need to get a tad snotty.

Have to add, since camerata says this is a soi dog, the prognosis is worse.

[jdinasia]

Not doubting your diagnosis bambi, just wondering why jd feels the need to get a tad snotty.

Have to add, since camerata says this is a soi dog, the prognosis is worse.

Misunderstanding SBK .... I didn't doubt Bambi at all ... just wondered why other folks wouldn't see it as cancer from the start!

[camerata]

It looks like Venereal Granuloma ,VG (aka. Transmissible Venereal Tumor (TVT) )

Tx = Vincristine IV q.1wk

I may be wrong but I believe I saw this dog a few months ago. It had a dark muzzle and what appeared to be light, circular spots on it. Otherwise, it seemed in good condition. Would this fit with the cancer diagnosis - starting in small patches near the muzzle and then spreading to other parts of the body several months later?

[BambinA]

Basically It starts at genital area.Nature of TVT,it is infected from the infected dog by "transplanted cell" ; from mucous membrane such as genital organ , mouth, and buccal.

[Nienke]

Horrible wounds!!! Poor Dog!!!

As now it's diagnosed and the prognosis for this particular dog is poor, is it possible, Camerata, that you catch this dog and take it to the vet to be treated or to put it out of its suffering?

Nienke

[elfe]

i've seen some dogs with this skin horror over the years. mostly round elevated pink hairless wounds which bleed easily. just a few days ago i saw a very severe case in chaweng near lotus, the whole body covered in huge forms of these 'wounds'.

questions for bambina

- is this disease very painful for the dog?

- can it be treated successfully in this state?

- is it contageous to my dog if he meets an infected dog, just by sniffing at the sick dog?

- can it be cured well in early stage?

- is there a prevention/vaccine?

thanks

[BambinA]

i've seen some dogs with this skin horror over the years. mostly round elevated pink hairless wounds which bleed easily. just a few days ago i saw a very severe case in chaweng near lotus, the whole body covered in huge forms of these 'wounds'.

questions for bambina

First of all, I am not sure about the dog who had pink hairless wounds which bleed easily had a sign of TVT or not ( I need to see a pic) He /She might get some dermatologic problem such as mange with bacterial dermatitis .OK if he /she has got TVT/VG sign, the answers are

- is this disease very painful for the dog?

Yes,It is painful .It can diffuse to other part of body sych as face, nose ,eyes even brain.

- can it be treated successfully in this state?

For primary state ,the lesion is located at genital area. And if it is smaller than tenis ball.It need to have chemotherapy for 3-5 times .The prognosis is GOOD. For generalized nodule, it varied from Fair >Guard>bad

- is it contageous to my dog if he meets an infected dog, just by sniffing at the sick dog?

Yes, it's possible to get infection due to cell transplanted via mucous membrane (as licking (mouth) and sniffing (nose)

- can it be cured well in early stage?

Yes, sir

- is there a prevention/vaccine?

No, sir

thanks

For Chemotherapy , the infected dog need to

1) blood collection for hematology and blood chemistry.

2) Vincristine need to use just intravenous only.If it is leaked, muscle will be damaged and get necrosis

3) Vincristine is not only hepatotoxic but also bone marrow suppressed .The dog needs to take some vitamin supplements all the period of treatment.

Geezz It's time for me to close my clinic (8 pm) . Toodle-oo

[elfe]

thanks a lot bambina

'ma'm' elfe

[BambinA]

Could anyone tell me where does the dog live?

I may find somebody who is able to help this dog?

grazie

[lannarebirth]

I do not live in Bangkok, but if Camerata or Bambina, or someone else wants to try to see about healing this poor dog, I would be very pleased to contribute.

[BambinA]

I do not live in Bangkok, but if Camerata or Bambina, or someone else wants to try to see about healing this poor dog, I would be very pleased to contribute.

Thank you for your kind.

I have sent the dog's photos to some of my friends. They would love to help him but the problem is we do not know where he is.

I have sent a PM to Camerata already.And i do not get any answer yet.

If we know where the dog is and he is not far from us,we will help him our best.

Even if the dog is in other province,we will try to contact somebody who lives in that area to help him.

Regards,

BambinA

Edited June 25, 2007 by BambinA

[MsFigure]

Not to sound cruel, but wouldn't the best option for this dog be euthenasia?

[camerata]

I have sent the dog's photos to some of my friends. They would love to help him but the problem is we do not know where he is.

I have sent a PM to Camerata already.And i do not get any answer yet.

If we know where the dog is and he is not far from us,we will help him our best.

Sorry, I didn't check this forum for the past couple of days, but I got the PM today.

The dog is in central Bangkok.

[elfe]

Not to sound cruel, but wouldn't the best option for this dog be euthenasia?

it would be cruel. as you can read from bambinas post, she who is a vet and other vet friends of hers want to treat this dog! so there must be hope and cure for it!!!

[JonnieB]

I agree...just put this dog down. I like dogs and cats as much as the next person but come on. The vet herself said that early treatment can be effective but late stage not. She also said it is a painful condition. Just put this dog out of its suffering. If you want to do something helpful, donate to a local animal shelter so they can buy food and meds for their younger and healthier puppies and dogs.

Don't forget, animals do not have a sense of mortality...they DO NOT know that some day they will die. Therefore, they have no fear or trepidation of proper euthanasia. To them, they are just falling asleep...to wake up again soon...they don't know they will never wake-up again.

[JonnieB]

I agree...just put this dog down. I like dogs and cats as much as the next person but come on. The vet herself said that early treatment can be effective but late stage not. She also said it is a painful condition. Just put this dog out of its suffering. If you want to do something helpful, donate to a local animal shelter so they can buy food and meds for their younger and healthier puppies and dogs.

Don't forget, animals do not have a sense of mortality...they DO NOT know that some day they will die. Therefore, they have no fear or trepidation of proper euthanasia. To them, they are just falling asleep...to wake up again soon...they don't know they will never wake-up again.

[BambinA]

Put the dog to sleep is easy, Being a vet for approximately 10 years I have put few animals to sleep(I am not that professioal Vet, i cry alot when i did)

Honestly, when i see the pic of this Dog, I know that there is less chance to help him.

But yes...yes .. i want to give him a chance.

(I know that when VG runs to eyes or brain ,We Vets have no oppunity to help)

[BambinA]

professional* /opportunity**

Edited June 27, 2007 by BambinA

[MsFigure]

I can understand how a couple of you may think euthanasia sounds cruel but the odds are really stacked against this poor dog. If what he has(and dogs in similar situations to him) can be successfully treated and someone is a)willing to give it a home and give it the love and home dogs deserve and 2) give/pay for the medical treatment.... By all means, try to save him and give him a chance to live but don't just put him back out onto the streets once he has recovered.

By all accounts, this is a soi dog (isn't owned by any particular person) and from the looks of things his situation does not look good at all and I can only imagine all the pain he must be in. Everytime I see dogs similar to him (covered in sores, totally emaciated, covered in pests, etc) I wish someone would put them out of their misery

I have enormous respect for those people (Elfe, Bambina for example) that try to do the right thing by these dogs and are involved in rescue work but unless they can be found good homes and looked after properly and not left to run the streets wild without loving owners and a home, the majority of soi dogs that I see (especially those that are visibly sick and injured) should be euthanised or at the very least (for those strongly opposed to euthanasia) the healthy dogs to all be sterilised so that they don't produce more homeless dogs.

Di

[MTW]

camerata, can you catch this dog and bring him to a vet? Or do you have plan to do something? I don't know where BambinA is located. Can you all let us know what is going on? I would be happy to contribute even if it is for is to euthanize the poor dog, although in that case it is very cheap, and I would help you but I am in CM. I hope someone in the area will do something because this is a very, very sad case, and no dog should be on his own like this.

[camerata]

camerata, can you catch this dog and bring him to a vet? Or do you have plan to do something? I don't know where BambinA is located. Can you all let us know what is going on? I would be happy to contribute even if it is for is to euthanize the poor dog, although in that case it is very cheap, and I would help you but I am in CM. I hope someone in the area will do something because this is a very, very sad case, and no dog should be on his own like this.

Bambina is trying to arrange some chemo treatment for the dog. Money isn't a problem in this case, but the idea is to improve its condition or at least arrest its progression. The dog hangs out with four siblings, so at least it isn't alone.

[Nienke]

Way to go, Camerata and Bambina!!! With ALL the respect for what you are doing for this dog!

:D

Nienke