Gasohol

[Asiacat]

I have a three year old Phantom which I have been running on 95 since new.

Now most of the petrol stations on my normal routes are replaceing the yellow 95 with the orange 95 gasohol.

Can I safely switch between the two fuels or is there something I should know?

[Crossy]

The 'something you should know' is that putting gasohol in an engine that is not designed for it can cause serious damage to the fuel system.

I don't know the Phantom so here is some general advice.

Check your manual, does the Phantom actually NEED 95?

If you can use 91, do so

The only way to be reasonably certain that you can put gasohol in the beast is to contact the manufacturer and get an assurance in writing (so when it goes pear-shaped so have some recourse).

Edited June 25, 2007 by Crossy

[PeaceBlondie]

Agreed, gasohol is not a good idea. My Thai boyfriend has a 2007 Phantom and as far as he knows, it uses 91 gasoline, not gasohol. If you can find an owner's manual, it may contain a red sticker on the front cover, telling what octane number to use.

When my (Thai-built) 2003 Honda CBR150 had a fuel/carb problem, the first guess was that I'd let the attendant put gasohol in the tank, which supposedly would have caused problems with the fuel line, gaskets, etc. The advice was to not use gasohol. I don't know.

[Carmine6]

I have a three year old Phantom which I have been running on 95 since new.

Now most of the petrol stations on my normal routes are replacing the yellow 95 with the orange 95 gasohol.

Can I safely switch between the two fuels or is there something I should know?

That'd be a Honda Phantom? If it were a US bike you'd be just fine, so I'm guessing you're probably ok. The main problems in the past were that some seals and hoses were made of materials that the alcohol deteriorated. Hasn't been a problem for decades in the US and I doubt they use different materials for non-US fuel lines given that gasohol has been around for a while around the world.

Many people in the US don't realize they've been using 5% gasohol for years. It's just not been advertised as gasohol, but as gasoline. The California blend for example is 5.7% ethanol, and California has lots of older vehicles. I think Gasohol if marketed as such is generally 10% ethanol.

This link below is from a renewable fuels trade group, but I have no reason to doubt the warranty statements are accurate for the US.

US Auto and Motorcycle Warranty Limits

[stevemiddie]

I have a three year old Phantom which I have been running on 95 since new.

Now most of the petrol stations on my normal routes are replacing the yellow 95 with the orange 95 gasohol.

Can I safely switch between the two fuels or is there something I should know?

That'd be a Honda Phantom? If it were a US bike you'd be just fine, so I'm guessing you're probably ok. The main problems in the past were that some seals and hoses were made of materials that the alcohol deteriorated. Hasn't been a problem for decades in the US and I doubt they use different materials for non-US fuel lines given that gasohol has been around for a while around the world.

Many people in the US don't realize they've been using 5% gasohol for years. It's just not been advertised as gasohol, but as gasoline. The California blend for example is 5.7% ethanol, and California has lots of older vehicles. I think Gasohol if marketed as such is generally 10% ethanol.

This link below is from a renewable fuels trade group, but I have no reason to doubt the warranty statements are accurate for the US.

US Auto and Motorcycle Warranty Limits

Tha above may be absoloutely true but i think only serves to confuse the OP.

The Phantom is a motorcy made specifically for the Asian markets and therefore any data from the US markets should be treated with caution in relation to the OP,s post.

Take advice from the Honda dealers. ( i used 91 in my Phantom when i had one. As advised by Honda in Bangkok. No probs at all. )

[Crossy]

This link below is from a renewable fuels trade group, but I have no reason to doubt the warranty statements are accurate for the US.

US Auto and Motorcycle Warranty Limits

BUT, we are NOT in the US!!

This is a very dangerous assumtion, my old BMW (German import) was marketed in the US and the US version was gasohol safe, the Euro (Thai) version was NOT!!!

[lingling]

What materials are used in the carburetor float in that bike? If the carb is made of aluminium with a copper/brass float, gasohol will most likely cause corrosion leading to fuel blockages.

[Crossy]

What materials are used in the carburetor float in that bike? If the carb is made of aluminium with a copper/brass float, gasohol will most likely cause corrosion leading to fuel blockages.

I understood that the compatibility problems were in the main with rubber / other stuff seals.

That said, during my searching for gasohol compatibility issues a while back there were some nasty photos of metal corrosion caused by high ethanol / methanol fuels (like E85)

[lingling]

I understood that the compatibility problems were in the main with rubber / other stuff seals.

That said, during my searching for gasohol compatibility issues a while back there were some nasty photos of metal corrosion caused by high ethanol / methanol fuels (like E85)

Both. But I know that on some other small Honda engines one problem with gasohol is that it causes metal corrosion in the carburator. The instruction book for weed cutters and brush cutter engines from Honda has a clear warning to not use gasohol because of this.

[chavy]

I can only give my comment about my Honda Steed. I made the mistake of filling up with gasahol 95. The bike ran awful for days. I'm talking about stuttering shuddering really bad performance etc. I had to flush the system through to make right. I shall not make the same mistake twice.

One of the other replies mentions 91 fuel. Before my Steed I had a 2002 Phantom that was equally comfortable with 91 & 95 fuel (but didn't try gasahol) so I cannot see any problems switching brands.

[higgy88]

I've had my phantom since they first came out with the 200 cc 4 stroke engine about 5 years ago, and I requested and got the owner's manual in English. It specifically says that you can use 91 octane fuel, which I have done for the last 5 years with absolutely no problems. Using 95 is a waste of money and will not give you any benefits at all. I have never used gasohol, but the owner's manual does say that you can use up to 10% ethanol but not to use fuels containing methanol. The gasohol in Thailand contains 10% ethanol, so according to the manual I could use it if I wanted to.

[chavy]

I've had my phantom since they first came out with the 200 cc 4 stroke engine about 5 years ago, and I requested and got the owner's manual in English. It specifically says that you can use 91 octane fuel, which I have done for the last 5 years with absolutely no problems. Using 95 is a waste of money and will not give you any benefits at all. I have never used gasohol, but the owner's manual does say that you can use up to 10% ethanol but not to use fuels containing methanol. The gasohol in Thailand contains 10% ethanol, so according to the manual I could use it if I wanted to.

If you wanted to...does that mean there's a doubt in your mind about using the gassahol fuel...I think everybody's got a huge doubt about using this fuel. After my experience it will take alot to change my view of this horrible "alternative"

[eljeque]

I would call Honda in Bangkok.

If your bike has a carburetor, it might be a problem, because the carburetor has a float, and the float will be "afloat" at a different height in the fuel based on the density of the fuel. Gasoline and alcohol have different densities..... and many other problems.

Information on converting a carburetor from gasoline to alcohol is available here. I have a fuel injected Honda Wave 125, and would like to run alcohol in it, but I am concerned about the fittings and if the rubber hoses will be eaten away.

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_librar...anol_drane.html

I have pasted a small amount of information from this "Convert Your Car to Alcohol" webpage, but there is a lot more involved.

It would more than likely benefit you to make adjustments to your carburetor:

Altering the Carburetor

You may want to obtain a second carburetor to convert and keep your present one for gasoline use. I obtained a used one for $10 from a salvage yard. Rebuilt carburetors are available from your auto parts dealer. In either case, make sure the one you purchase is compatible with the engine you plan to use it on. You parts dealer will be helpful in determining the most efficient.

Next, get a carburetor overhaul kit. Be sure the kit is for your particular model carburetor. The model will be cast into the body or on a metal tag attached to it. The kit contains new gaskets, check valves, an accelerator pump plunger and the necessary parts to make an old carburetor perform like new. Best of all, it has detailed instructions and an exploded view of all the parts. Each part is numbered and named for reference. This will a real aid for reassembly.

Enlarging the Metering Jets

Try to find a clean, uncluttered table or counter to work on. Use the exploded view as a guide and disassemble the carburetor far enough to remove the main, metering jets. The jets are more accessible in some models than others.

Carefully determine the hole size of the metering jets. This can be done by actually measuring the jet or looking in a shop manual. If you have no way of determining the hole size, take the jets to an automotive machine shop. They have the tools to measure and enlarge the jets.

Determine the proper jet size by the following example. This is the calculation I used from the Dodge.

Original Jet Diameter

(0.62)

Increase Jet Diameter By 40% For Alcohol

x 1.4

(248)

Correct Jet Diameter For Alcohol ÷ 062

(.0868)

NOTE: The 40% figure used here will assure a rich enough mixture to prevent burning the valves due to an over-lean mixture.

After testing the car, you may find the jets are too large and the mixture is very rich. If this is the case, install new jets enlarged 35% or even smaller as your car requires. Just decrease the size in increments of 5% over stock size to be safe.

The Float -- Two Possible Alterations

Alcohol is heavier and more dense than gasoline. The float will ride higher in a given amount of alcohol than in the same amount of gasoline. Since fuel flow is cut off when the float rises to a specific point, the alcohol level will be lower than if the float bowl were filled with gasoline. Some method must be used to raise the fuel level to normal. Otherwise, the engine will cut out during turns due to lack of sufficient fuel.

[higgy88]

Wow! I can't believe you are even passing on this dribble. The web site you refer to is an article that was written in 1980, the vehicle that was converted was a 1969 Dodge Dart, and the alcohol that was used was either home distilled or purchased industrical ethanol and manually mixed with the gasoline. Absolutely nothing in that article applies to here and now. A word of warning to the OP. Your Phantom came equipped with a catalatic converter, and after 5 years it will have to be tested before you can renew your annual license and continue to legally drive it on the streets. After the 5 years, if you have messed with the catalatic converter and/or your bike cannot pass the emission tests then you are going to have yourself a problem. Just use 91 unleaded fuel and forget about all this bull.

[TBWG]

Wow! I can't believe you are even passing on this dribble. The web site you refer to is an article that was written in 1980, the vehicle that was converted was a 1969 Dodge Dart, and the alcohol that was used was either home distilled or purchased industrical ethanol and manually mixed with the gasoline. Absolutely nothing in that article applies to here and now. A word of warning to the OP. Your Phantom came equipped with a catalatic converter, and after 5 years it will have to be tested before you can renew your annual license and continue to legally drive it on the streets. After the 5 years, if you have messed with the catalatic converter and/or your bike cannot pass the emission tests then you are going to have yourself a problem. Just use 91 unleaded fuel and forget about all this bull.

Hi Higgy

I have a 06 Phantom and run it on what is recommended in the manual which I believe is 91 unleaded. I say believe because I am currently seperated by 6,000 miles from both bike & manual so can't check!

I had to smile about what you said about the catalytic converter test after 5 years. ( I hadn't even realised it had one ) Bearing in mind all the c**p spewed out by all those double rice trucks I find it rather amusing.

TBWG

[eljeque]

"Wow! I can't believe you are even passing on this dribble."

The word that you were searching for was "drivel" not dribble.

The densities of acohol and gasoline have not changed over time.

And, alcohol will still wear/rot out many rubber hoses.

and the top of my post read "I would call Honda in Bangkok."

[otherstuff1957]

I ride an early '90's Kawasaki 150. A couple of weeks ago some friends of my wife put some air in the tires and gas in the tank for me.

When I took to bike for a spin last weekend, it bogged down and died before I'd gone a kilometer! After I took a good look at the bike I noticed that the paint on one side of the fuel tank was looking a bit ruined - just as though someone had spilled gasohal on it! I should have told them to use 91 octane, but didn't think of it, so it looks like I'll be rebuilding my carborator and replacing my fuel lines this weekend!

[higgy88]

Mr. Eljeque. Thank you for the correction, but dribble was the word I intended to use, the liquid that comes from the side of the mouth and dribbles down your chin when you are hungry and see something you want to eat. I meant it as a very subtle comment on how hungry you seemed to be to post that link and the information. I'm sorry if I was a bit rude, but my views are still the same, that engines and vehicles are completely different now then they were in the 60s, and making any modifications to the OP's motorcycle is only going to make problems for him. The fact is his motorcycle is already E10 compatable and does not need any additional modifications. You can find more of my views on this thread in the Chiangmai forum Gasohol A Go Go and maybe you can post what your views are on this subject.