Thoughts on an unconventional build?

[SenorTashi]

I just spent a couple of hours reading threads here. So I made an account to discuss some things.

I've built a log cabin in France, which I lived in for 5 years. I also built a few other cabins, which cost next to nothing.

Two of them were made from recovered doors and windows. I lived in all of them rent free for years.

I had solar heated water, solar panels for power and filtered spring water to drink.

I did all that mainly because I wanted to see how easy it would be and I learned quite a few lessons from it all.

 

My future wife has a beautiful piece of land near Chiang Rai, which we're allowed to build on.

Her dad dug trenches all over it years ago and the locals said he was mad apparently, but having read

the threads here it seems like he did the right thing.

I've been to visit the land twice during all this flooding and the land has been mostly dry. 

I'm not that keen on building a conventional house with concrete, mainly because I don't enjoy working with those materials.

I wouldn't mind a concrete slab on the ground to start with but I don't know whether I need to dig down to clay or to put it on stilts.

I keep asking her dad what he did when he built his concrete buildings but he doesn't answer.

I built my log cabin by digging down to the clay, then laid some large flat stones on top of that, then put the first

layer of logs on them. 

 

I've considered building with bamboo but after a load of research that seems like a load of hassle.

So I'm wondering what other inexpensive, natural options there are.

I'm thinking of doing a longish bungalow, which will be shaded from the sun by the mature trees.

I know bricklaying, basic plumbing and electrics and I used to be a roofer so none of that

bothers me but I just don't want to spend a fortune on materials and would like to find a compromise which she'll like

and I'll enjoy doing.

 

Also, do we need planning permission and an architect of can I just get on with it?

 

Any thoughts are welcome. 

 

 

 

[SenorTashi]

A quick shower thought to add to that; are there any good wood treatments which keep the termites out?

Even though I had a hell of a lot of beasties to deal with in France, the bugs are on a different level here. 

[sometimewoodworker]

There is a site that has a significant verity of buildings, most of them with pictures detailing the builds from the going up the search terms should include the words “house Thai & cool)

 

16 minutes ago, SenorTashi said:

Also, do we need planning permission and an architect of can I just get on with it?

The location of the house dictates if you need to submit plans to get planning permission. 
For the house I built & the 2 my wife built we just built, our house had an architect my wife’s did not.

The closer you get to a town the more likely you will need your plans approved.

[sometimewoodworker]

7 minutes ago, SenorTashi said:

A quick shower thought to add to that; are there any good wood treatments which keep the termites out?

Even though I had a hell of a lot of beasties to deal with in France, the bugs are on a different level here. 

at least 2 treatments a couple of days apart, it tales about 7 days for the diluting agent to evaporate, don’t build with the wood before that or your structure will smell of paraffin for months.

 

It isn’t a guarantee of no wood eating grubs but it suppresses them for years

Edited October 14, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[SenorTashi]

33 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The location of the house dictates if you need to submit plans to get planning permission. 
For the house I built & the 2 my wife built we just built, our house had an architect my wife’s did not.

The closer you get to a town the more likely you will need your plans approved.

Good to know. It's miles from anywhere and from what I was told, they have permission to build there. They already have a substantial building there, so they must know a bit about it.

[unheard]

@SenorTashi

"So I'm wondering what other inexpensive, natural options there are."

 

That would be teak wood if you happened to have any close relatives that could spare (or sell for a song) a run down old teak house.

Then you could re-use all that wood and build a new house for yourself.

Teak is durable, but very expensive natural option if purchased on the open market.

If not then red bricks is the only inexpensive "natural" option.

It's cheap and durable - the local default material used for walls.

[unheard]

11 minutes ago, SenorTashi said:

It's miles from anywhere and from what I was told, they have permission to build there.

"Miles from anywhere" usually means you can build whatever you want and how you want - no permits necessary.

But still advisable "just in case".

Edited October 14, 2022 by unheard

[sometimewoodworker]

5 minutes ago, SenorTashi said:

Good to know. It's miles from anywhere and from what I was told, they have permission to build there. They already have a substantial building there, so they must know a bit about it.

The miles from anywhere is no guarantee, in general the locals and certainly the village headman will know if you need to submit plans, better to ask the headman rather than someone who has an interest in you building there. Also things change so check for yourself.

 

FWIW there are free plans that have been pre approved. Also it is rare for anyone to check to see you are building according to the plans

[sometimewoodworker]

5 minutes ago, unheard said:

That would be teak wood if you happened to have any close relatives that could spare (or sell for a song) a run down old teak house.

It would have to be an amazingly generous relative as there are timber yards that specialise in deconstruction of houses and they pay good money for old teak houses. 

[unheard]

8 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

It would have to be an amazingly generous relative as there are timber yards that specialise in deconstruction of houses and they pay good money for old teak houses. 

That's why I've mentioned he might reimburse them, just not at the market prices.

And yes, amazingly generous relatives do exist. It all depends on his personal situation.

[SenorTashi]

1 hour ago, unheard said:

If not then red bricks is the only inexpensive "natural" option.

It's cheap and durable - the local default material used for walls.

They don't use rebar with bricks do they. Or do they?

I just thought that somebody in the family has built a small house with clay

and that's something else I was experimenting with in France.

It's what's held the pyramids up for so long apparently.

 

 

 

[SenorTashi]

1 hour ago, unheard said:

if you happened to have any close relatives that could spare (or sell for a song) a run down old teak house

 

51 minutes ago, unheard said:

And yes, amazingly generous relatives do exist. It all depends on his personal situation.

They're not money rich but they do own a lot of stuff and they recycle and use almost everything from what I can see. Which is right up my street really.

[unheard]

1 hour ago, SenorTashi said:

They don't use rebar with bricks do they. Or do they?

The standard way is to make a concrete foundation (with lots of rebar).

Could be elevated or not, usually set on concrete footings or sometimes piles.

The walls are of the non load-bearing type.

Over here they use load-bearing concrete frames consisting of concrete footings and floors attached to concrete columns.

The bricks are placed in between the columns to form non load-bearing walls.

The metal roof beams complete the structural frame at the top.

Edited October 14, 2022 by unheard

[unheard]

1 hour ago, SenorTashi said:

 

They're not money rich but they do own a lot of stuff and they recycle and use almost everything from what I can see.

Depending on the area, there are still many non-reach Thai families living in old, all teak houses, which are being passed from generation to generation.

Edited October 14, 2022 by unheard

[SenorTashi]

I'm thinking of building a bungalow structure, which won't weigh much. I also read that there's a layer of clay under the soil near Chiang Rai. So presumably I could lay a concrete slab right on top of the clay? The land has already been raised and there are trenches dug.

 

Do we think this would work?

[sometimewoodworker]

9 minutes ago, SenorTashi said:

I'm thinking of building a bungalow structure, which won't weigh much. I also read that there's a layer of clay under the soil near Chiang Rai. So presumably I could lay a concrete slab right on top of the clay? The land has already been raised and there are trenches dug.

 

Do we think this would work?

It might, the first port of call is your local OrBorTor they will have details of soil conditions and foundation methods for your area.

 

I think that a slab foundation on top of a raised clay soil maybe a recipe for a cracked slab

[spidermike007]

I think natural construction is the way to go in Thailand. Looked at many forms of it, and super Adobe seems very practical, less expensive and it is quite beautiful. You must compensate by building on stilts, and using wide roof structures, to avoid the brick being pounded by rains. But the result is gorgeous, with 20cm. deep bricks, and lovely window and door eaves. The possibilities are endless. We are going to do it in the near future. Thai brick is a horrific building material, with zero insulation value, and only serves stifling convention and the industry. 

[SenorTashi]

31 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

super Adobe seems very practical, less expensive and it is quite beautiful. You must compensate by building on stilts, and using wide roof structures, to avoid the brick being pounded by rains.

Do you have any links or pics you could share? I'm probably moving out to the land very soon and just trying to make the most of being online with my laptop right now.

[SenorTashi]

1 minute ago, SenorTashi said:

Do you have any links

Just found one myself in two seconds https://www.calearth.org/intro-superadobe

 

[Pouatchee]

You can't insure wood houses like back home. definitely something to consider. I am finalizing my house, Pilons, bricks, sandwich tin roof and as little wood as possible. The house I am renting now is crumbling apart due to termites. Le look du bois est peut-etre beau, mais ca vaut pas la peine ici en thailande mon pot...   ; )

Edited October 16, 2022 by Pouatchee

[carlyai]

Don't build wood, just concrete and brick. No bugs are going to eat it. 

We have a house full of teak furniture and no bugs eat it, but it's really seasoned thick hard wood. 

Will be just a continueal maintenance nightmare building with wood.

Forked trees we use to prop up the banana trees are easily eaten out. Even our other house 700 km in Pattaya termites ate up thru the wood door jams.

[SenorTashi]

21 minutes ago, Pouatchee said:

Le look du bois est peut-etre beau

Vous etes francais? Yeah I've seen the damage they do. Termites seem a bit mad to me. We're moving into a concrete structure very soon and the termites have been living all over it. Makes me wonder why 

[SenorTashi]

10 minutes ago, carlyai said:

termites ate up thru the wood door jams.

They were doing that in one of my hotel rooms. I sprayed bug spray into the hole a couple of times but it didn't deter them

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, SenorTashi said:

Do you have any links or pics you could share? I'm probably moving out to the land very soon and just trying to make the most of being online with my laptop right now.

Yes. Went to an institute for natural construction and permaculture. Will dig up the links. Very cool stuff. 

[SenorTashi]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

You must compensate by building on stilts, and using wide roof structures, to avoid the brick being pounded by rains

Why does it have to be on stilts and how would you do that? I've always like stilt houses and wouldn't mind building with wooden stilts but if wood's out of the question, then it would have to be concrete, which is what I'm trying to avoid doing actually.

I had a look through that link I posted and they've built adobe houses in a few countries which get heavy rains. That was my first thought with building a clay house too. Clay is water resistant but it would need constant repairs i think. I built some stone walls in France using clay instead of mortar and it either dries up or it washes out. 

Those sack houses get covered in some kind of mortar though which would make it waterproof. Maybe add a bit of lime to stop it cracking?

[unheard]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I think natural construction is the way to go in Thailand. Looked at many forms of it, and super Adobe seems very practical, less expensive and it is quite beautiful. You must compensate by building on stilts, and using wide roof structures, to avoid the brick being pounded by rains. But the result is gorgeous, with 20cm. deep bricks, and lovely window and door eaves. The possibilities are endless. We are going to do it in the near future. Thai brick is a horrific building material, with zero insulation value, and only serves stifling convention and the industry. 

Thai red brick is durable, cheap material that is being used just about everywhere in Thailand by default.

Yes by itself It doesn't offer great insulating values but can be made thermally and acoustically efficient via simple double wall designs that are still fairly affordable.

Clay structures in Thailand?

I haven't seen many, if any.

I think there must be a reason for that.

Sounds like a maintenance nightmare.

As constructed in Thailand, do they offer any seismic resistance?

Their resistance to earth shaking would be pretty much near zero if not constructed within strict guidelines, e.g. 30 cm minimum wall thickness, with ceilings of no more than 8 times of the wall thickness, specific shape of the building, specifically built corners, roof structure and how it connects to the walls and many, many other things that must be considered, designed and even more importantly built by a specialist, which  would certainly add a great deal to the overall costs.

btw, many areas of Thailand are seismically active.

Edited October 16, 2022 by unheard

[SenorTashi]

10 minutes ago, unheard said:

Thai red brick is durable, cheap material that is being used just about everywhere in Thailand by default.

Do you know if they use rebar between the bricks? 

 

Re, the clay idea. it would have to be more of a cob because clay on its own doesn't work.

[unheard]

23 minutes ago, SenorTashi said:

Do you know if they use rebar between the bricks?

There's no rebar being used between the bricks - structurally it's not needed in the non load-bearing wall.

Metal rods being used as joint reinforcements in the areas where walls join columns or other walls .

With one side of the rod embedded into the brick while the other side drilled into the concrete column or other wall.

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by unheard

[SenorTashi]

I'm glad I started this thread. I've gone from not having a clue what to do to slowly formulating a plan. Thanks to all the contributors.

[SenorTashi]

11 hours ago, unheard said:

There's no rebar being used between the bricks

the main thing I'm not sure about is how I'm going to start the foundations. All my previous experience has been to dig down to something solid but I don't this piece of land at all yet