Westernisation

[Stocky]

The country even has gone as far as naming itsself Great...

To clarify the use of the word great in Great Britain is not in the context of 'better than' but as in greater 'bigger than' and dates to the Act of Union in 1707 when England and Scotland agreed to permanently join as Great Britain. With the legislative union of Great Britain and Ireland in 1801, the name the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland was adopted. Subsequently after the partition of Ireland in 1921 the current name of the country, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, was adopted in 1927.

[Stocky]

Yes, it is a shame to see a traditional culture become Westernized, but isn't it a bit patronizing to tell people what they can wear, eat or how they can live?  Yes, it is distressing to see the world become homogenized, but is it fair to tell people that they should live as living cultural musuem exhibits?  The Thais will adopt or reject western ideas and fashions as they see fit.  We can only applaud or deplore their choices.

I couldn't agree more. The only thing to be said is that it's up to the Thai government to ensure that Thais value and preserve aspects of their own culture whilst embracing that of others.

[Richard W]

the huge universal sympathy for America after 9/11 for example.

I understood that the Americans got a shock when they realised how universal it wasn't. Many of us considered the x minutes silence recommended in the UK as inappropriate.

[stroll]

World war three because an airplane crushed into a skyscraper.

[Padkapow Guy]

World war three because an airplane crushed into a skyscraper.

As a japanese commander once said.

I am afraid we have just woken up a sleeping giant.

No matter what administration is in charge the U.S. will take the fight to our enemies. You probably won't see any let up until bin laden is taking it up the pooper by saddam.

[rainman]

No matter what administration is in charge the U.S. will take the fight to our enemies. You probably won't see any let up until bin laden is taking it up the pooper by saddam.

A change in foreign policy would help, too. I don't see countries such as Switzerland, The Netherlands or Brazil being the targets of terrorists. Why? Because they don't impose their policies on everyone else. That's just how it is right now. The only enemies you have are the ones you create yourself.

[konangrit]

No matter what administration is in charge the U.S. will take the fight to our enemies. You probably won't see any let up until bin laden is taking it up the pooper by saddam.

A change in foreign policy would help, too. I don't see countries such as Switzerland, The Netherlands or Brazil being the targets of terrorists. Why? Because they don't impose their policies on everyone else. That's just how it is right now. The only enemies you have are the ones you create yourself.

Actually as a member of Nato the Netherlands were involved in Operations Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan. They still have troops there now.

They were also involved in the kosovan conflict as part of Nato. Dutch fighter pilots even shot down a Serb MiG. They still have personnel there now.

They were also involved in Bosnia and still have troops there now.

The International Court of Justice in The Hague, the Netherlands has and is still being used to prosecute alleged war criminals from the balkans conflicts.

The only exception is Iraq. Which was not an issue on September 11th 2001.

[rainman]

But are they having terrorist attacks? Supporting NATO or the UN is different ..

[Stocky]

World war three because an airplane crushed into a skyscraper.

As a japanese commander once said.

I am afraid we have just woken up a sleeping giant.

No matter what administration is in charge the U.S. will take the fight to our enemies. You probably won't see any let up until bin laden is taking it up the pooper by saddam.

But as Rainman points out, the US is currently busy creating enemies! It's noticeable that the coalition of the willing is dwindling fast, Thailand is pulling it's contingent out and to date an association with the current administration has been the kiss of death to any foreign government favourable to it. With of course the exception of Israel. Sleeping giant it maybe but the Millwall attitude of "no one likes us but we don't care" is short sighted - apologies to anyone unfamiliar with English football clubs and their supporters.

[konangrit]

But are they having terrorist attacks? Supporting NATO or the UN is different ..

As my edited post suggested, Iraq occured post september 11th, the two are unrelated.

[rainman]

But are they having terrorist attacks? Supporting NATO or the UN is different ..

As my edited post suggested, Iraq occured post september 11th, the two are unrelated.

Yeah, even worse. The US invaded a country that did not even attack them. So if we put Saddam Hussein on trial for invading Kuwait without Kuwait doing anything, shouldn't George Bush be put on trial for invading Iraq too? Remember that Iraq never attacked the US.

The US completely ignored the UN. What purpose is there for the UN anymore? If countries can ignore it without being punished, we may as well get rid of it because its worth nothing anymore.

[konangrit]

World war three because an airplane crushed into a skyscraper.

As a japanese commander once said.

I am afraid we have just woken up a sleeping giant.

No matter what administration is in charge the U.S. will take the fight to our enemies. You probably won't see any let up until bin laden is taking it up the pooper by saddam.

But as Rainman points out, the US is currently busy creating enemies! It's noticeable that the coalition of the willing is dwindling fast, Thailand is pulling it's contingent out and to date an association with the current administration has been the kiss of death to any foreign government favourable to it. With of course the exception of Israel. Sleeping giant it maybe but the Millwall attitude of "no one likes us but we don't care" is short sighted - apologies to anyone unfamiliar with English football clubs and their supporters.

Sure, I agree that they are creating enemies. However they are not alone in this. The reason that the Netherlands has not been attacked has nothing to do with their foreign policy. The Dutch are involved in the so called war on terror and take the threat of attack very seriously. There have even been security concerns about a plan to detonate a bomb on a ship, possibly in Rotterdam harbour.

All western democracies are viewed as a potential target to islamic extremists, not just the USA. In fact the countries less prominent in the war on terror may be more likely to be attacked due to the lower level of security than the US, which I believe has not been the victim of an attack since 9/11 despite several attempts.

[konangrit]

I'm not going to get involved in a discussion on the rights or wrongs of the Iraq war or American foreign policy. This board is not the place for it and this thread has gone way off topic. I was just pointing out that the Netherlands foreign policy has not insulated it from the threat of terrorism.

This will be my last post on this thread,

Konangrit

[Stocky]

Sure, I agree that they are creating enemies. However they are not alone in this. The reason that the Netherlands has not been attacked has nothing to do with their foreign policy. The Dutch are involved in the so called war on terror and take the threat of attack very seriously. There have even been security concerns about a plan to detonate a bomb on a ship, possibly in Rotterdam harbour.

All western democracies are viewed as a potential target to islamic extremists, not just the USA. In fact the countries less prominent in the war on terror may be more likely to be attacked due to the lower level of security than the US, which I believe has not been the victim of an attack since 9/11 despite several attempts.

Sorry, we're wandering well away from the topic. I wasn't really thinking about the 'war on terrorism' I was following on from some of the gratuitous America bashing in previous posts and suggesting that it was more a problem with the current administration in the US rather than the American people themselves.

Trying to steer this back to Thailand, if not the original subject, a consequence of globalisation is that Thailand has become a target for terrorists itself. Apart from the problems in the south, it's association with the US and the fact that it's a popular tourist destination put it in the firing line.

[stroll]

But how real are terrorist threads, and how much is the fear being fed by governments which gladly take the opportunity to cut civil and human rights down to the bone?

In Germany this happened while a small group of militant radicals in the 1970s were active, as a national security threat laughable in my opinion.

I was much more scared of machine guns being stuck into my face during street controls, and fell victim of a special police unit raiding my apartment because of a hoax.

[Stocky]

But how real are terrorist threads, and how much is the fear being fed by governments which gladly take the opportunity to cut civil and human rights down to the bone?

In Germany this happened while a small group of militant radicals in the 1970s were active, as a national security threat laughable in my opinion.

I was much more scared of machine guns being stuck into my face during street controls, and fell victim of a special police unit raiding my apartment because of a hoax.

For sure, especially with an election coming up.

Let me clarify, there are elections due in Thailand, US, UK and several European counties within the next 12 months. I'm not having a go at the US specifically

[Nam Kao]

With Nader running Bush should win easily in December

[stroll]

To bring the discussion back to Thailand, I think the government 's handling of the problems in the south will not help them in the next election.

And if the opinions of my Thai acquaintences count for anything, there will be a distancing from the US and 'western' influences, including monetary policy and cultural 'imports'.

[Stocky]

With Nader running Bush should win easily in December

I personally, for the World and America's sake, sincerely hope that he doesn't.

[31x]

Well, I certainly got a good laugh from Ambassador's post. We are not brainwashed, drummed into our heads, or any other method described by different words, that the US is the best/smartest/most powerful, or whatever adjective you choose, in the world.

Those comments seem to be reserved by people such as yourself. We are a country who enjoys many freedoms, gained though many sacrifices and hard work over the centuries. ALthough by no stretch a perfect place, I would take it over anywhere else int eh world (Yes, I have lived in other countries for years)

I suggest people are envious of our freedom. I could be wrong (BTW, I have not read the whole thread or your posts other than a couple) but, you sound like you are from England. Reason is, you spout the same old tired argument the Brits seem to spew and have been for years.

You're putting us to sleep already. Oh, some of my best friends are from England too, and even they laugh at the same old comments.

See, even in Thailand, if you don't want to eat at McDonalds, despise so called "Westerization" then don't. If you don't want Nike shoes, then don't buy them. Where are you that you are forced to adopt Western ways? You have a choice, exercise it. Gee, that sounded kind of Western, didn't it? Darn, I must be brainwashed!

If it bothers you so much, ignore it. See, then you won't get all stressed whining and b*tching about it.

A PROUD AMERICAN!

[Stocky]

To bring the discussion back to Thailand, I think the government 's handling of the problems in the south will not help them in the next election.

And if the opinions of my Thai acquaintences count for anything, there will be a distancing from the US and 'western' influences, including monetary policy and cultural 'imports'.

But TRT will win again though with a reduced majority. If it's a significant reduction, then hopefully it will make Mr Taksin shoot from the hip a little less Maybe they'll come up with some considered and well thought out policy. The sort of 'joined up government' that the UK's New Labour have touted but not quite delivered.

[Mai Krap]

What does most of this have to do with the westernization of this country???

[Stocky]

Well, I certainly got a good laugh from Ambassador's post.  We are not brainwashed, drummed into our heads, or any other method described by different words, that the US is the best/smartest/most powerful, or whatever adjective you choose, in the world. 

Those comments seem to be reserved by people such as yourself.  We are a country who enjoys many freedoms, gained though many sacrifices and hard work over the centuries.  ALthough by no stretch a perfect place, I would take it over anywhere else int eh world (Yes, I have lived in other countries for years)

I suggest people are envious of our freedom.  I could be wrong (BTW, I have not read the whole thread or your posts other than a couple) but, you sound like you are from England.  Reason is, you spout the same old tired argument the Brits seem to spew and have been for years. 

You're putting us to sleep already. Oh, some of my best friends are from England too, and even they laugh at the same old comments.

See, even in Thailand, if you don't want to eat at McDonalds, despise so called "Westerization" then don't.  If you don't want Nike shoes, then don't buy them.  Where are you that you are forced to adopt Western ways?  You have a choice, exercise it.  Gee, that sounded kind of Western, didn't it?  Darn, I must be brainwashed!

If it bothers you so much, ignore it.  See, then you won't get all stressed whining and b*tching about it.

A PROUD AMERICAN!

I might suggest you take the time to read the whole thread. The thoughts of the Ambassador are as cringeworthy to me as to you

I accept the process of 'westernisation/globalisation' (whatever) is a matter of choice as I don't accept the alternative which is Totalitarianism. However, accepting that, there is a need for countries to be able to protect their own cultural identity. None of us would be better off in a totally identical world.

Thais should be as proud to be Thai as you are to be American.

[rainman]

Darn, I must be brainwashed!

I guess.

[Khun ?]

Seems like double standards. America dragged into the balkans mess when they told europe it was their problem. Europe would not go unless guess who went with them. Since when did Germany attack the U.S. first in WWII. Seems like the U.N. agreed Sadam had to go at the same time some of these same countries were involved in kickbacks with Sadam and promising to get the sanctions lifted.

Where was everyone else when the U.S. was keeping 10's of thousands in the gulf region at the U.S.'s expense for 15 years after they ran Sadam out of Q8.

Thanks for the peace keepers in Afghan after the war, your a real proud bunch.

The U.S could of let Japan have asia and Germany have Europe very easily, would that of been to your liking. If you are in need of a free country upgrade claim war against the U.S.A. and you will get anything you need, of course to qualify you will need to have some importance to the rest of world.

Thailand trying to get 20 mil visitors a year so I would take this to mean they are not to worried about influence from other countries. These flukes/fakes run off to Thailand and complain about foreign influence isn't that kind of being two faced they let your miserable **s stay and look where these same people are choosing to stay ( farang areas). Plenty of jungle in Thailand and else where. Nice to see

some european countries best buds again. Maybe you should discuss the issue with some of your neighbors and ask them how their stay in the eastern bloc was.

A friend when you need em. What fair weather chums we have here.

[stroll]

Another brainwashed, but this is the dangerous kind.

[zzap]

The commie islamists are the losers here, and the european outcasts that flock to Pattaya.

[Richard W]

The country even has gone as far as naming itsself Great...

To clarify the use of the word great in Great Britain is not in the context of 'better than' but as in greater 'bigger than' and dates to the Act of Union in 1707 when England and Scotland agreed to permanently join as Great Britain.

I always understood that 'Great' was used to distinguish Britain from Brittany. Both are, for example, Bretagne in French - they both mean 'land of the Britons'.

[KevinN]

I think that you GS,Stroll and a bunch of others do not need to live in the city's around the westernized sections of this country if you do not want to.

You can go back where you came from or go to the Villages of the Lahu,Akha,or into the outback and get away from all of the over civilized folk,coarse then you will not be living in a nice air con. apt or house,eating the foods that you require,and in stead eating the foods that you say were starving you to death.Walking where ever you go,and most of all, be working for a ###### few baht a day if you are payed at all.

You kind of people make me sick,I will not go into the loss of American lives during the supplying and defending of GB and most of Europe and Asia during both great wars, during the defending of other parts of the world during times of oppression.

I just can't see why any country will allow you unhappy <deleted> to come into and bad mouth what is going on in a country that really doesn't want or need you,all you do is come here to help westernize the place and demand top dollar for your labors and then bitch about what is being done,and refuse to live anywhere your own kind seems not to congregate.

[Padkapow Guy]

I think that you GS,Stroll and a bunch of others do not need to live in the city's around the westernized sections of this country if you do not want to.

You can go back where you came from or go to the Villages of the Lahu,Akha,or into the outback and get away from all of the over civilized folk,coarse then you will not be living in a nice air con. apt or house,eating the foods that you require,and in stead eating the foods that you say were starving you to death.Walking where ever you go,and most of all, be working for a ###### few baht a day if you are payed at all.

You kind of people make me sick,I will not go into the loss of American lives during the supplying and defending of GB and most of Europe and Asia during both great wars, during the defending of other parts of the world during times of oppression.

I just can't see why any country will allow you unhappy <deleted> to come into and bad mouth what is going on in a country that really doesn't want or need you,all you do is come here to help westernize the place and demand top dollar for your labors and then bitch about what is being done,and refuse to live anywhere your own kind seems not to congregate.

Excellant post Kevin