Pinang Tourist Visas Back To Back

[deejah]

the email below came to me today from what i consider to be a reliable source in pinang (penang) who acts as a visa agent

any inofrmation to verify, confirm and/or refute is desired

when the 'warning' becomes a refusal to issue another 60 day tourist visa,

we will be looking at the next major change

someone close to me lies at the end of the visa run issue starting 0ct 1 2006 when enforcement changed

his/her/its last 30 day stamp was issued right before oct 1

he/she/it plans to head to penang july 25 for thai tourist visa number 3 (in a row)

no airline reservation has been made yet but the fares minus fees are about 700-900 baht each way with airasia

EMAIL:

About the back to back tourist visa you were asking. Since 15th June

we have notice that all applicants with 3 tourist visa back to back are

being stamp a remark : The holder of this passport travels in Thailand

under a tourist visa several times which may result in the refusal of a visa

in the future. We have referred this to the Penang Consulate,

according to them it's just a notice, so far there is no confirmation that you will not

given one however,

nobody knows what's going to happen next. This week the person who are incharge

of approving and signing the application has changed.

So we'll see of any changes.

[eek]

Actually there was a similar thread to this a few weeks ago.

I recently came back from Penang with a new tourist visa, my third. It was not 'back to back' however as last month I just did a border crossing due to ill health and received a one month stamp.

There was no remark nor anything unusual stamped on my visa or passport when received. No idea if this is because the visa was not 'back to back'. V odd.

[JonnieB]

Well, to continue on, I just received my passport back and have another tourist visa

As to comments about warnings being placed in passports with multiple visas already having been received from the Penang cousulate, I can only report that my passport is still comment free. This is now the 5th tourist visa in a row from Penang.

I don't doubt that some have received the warnings mentioned above. The more interesting question is why some and not others. I can only state my situation: USA passport, male, mid-40s, and I have always used one of the agents on Chualia street.

[tijnebijn]

Well, to continue on, I just received my passport back and have another tourist visa

As to comments about warnings being placed in passports with multiple visas already having been received from the Penang cousulate, I can only report that my passport is still comment free. This is now the 5th tourist visa in a row from Penang.

I don't doubt that some have received the warnings mentioned above. The more interesting question is why some and not others. I can only state my situation: USA passport, male, mid-40s, and I have always used one of the agents on Chualia street.

Maybe that is the reason . Who knows that they are working for tea money , so that the agent and the officer make good money . If the same officer is issuing , and when not from his 'friend' , they get a marker. When another officer is working, and not working for teamoney , no marking , cause it is still posiible to do back to back . Just a theory , possible though !

[tropo]

This is now the 5th tourist visa in a row from Penang.

I am curious to know why you would be on your 5th tourist visa in a row since October 1, 2006.

Did you count tourist visas before Oct 1?

Do you get 30 days extensions on all your tourist visas?

Edited June 28, 2007 by tropo

[JonnieB]

I thought about the "tea money" possibility from using an agent as maybe facilitating things but these agents work on a pretty slim margins it seems to me. They charge for a tourist visa RM 120 and the visa cost itself is RM 100. The leftover RM 20 comes out to about $5...not much it seems to me to make a payoff and still have something left over for themselves to make it all worthwhile.

These visas are legit as they come with the official embassy receipt for RM 100 so they can't not be passing along these fees to the accounting department either.

I figure maybe age and nationality has something to do with it...middle-aged American. Maybe they figure by 42 you have made enough of a pot to piss in so that you are not working illegally. Whereas, if some passport passed their desk with multiple sequential tourist visas and the guy/gal is 22 years old, it raises a red flag and he gets the warnings. TIT

As to the other question, not sure where you get the reference to October 1, 2006. Maybe I should clarify a little. The passport has 5 tourist visas in it...the first one issued in September 2005. Two of them were multiple entry ones (back when you could get them out of Penang of 2x and 3x respectively). The 3 most recent have been single entries. Most, if not all, of my entries of 60 days have also been extended by 30 additional days (90 days total per entry). There may also have been one border run in there awhile back.

I guess you refer to the visa changes since last October. Since then, I have 2 visas, issued in November and March. I see the poster mentioned "3 in a row" were getting a warning. I guess the reference is to 3 in a row since the October changes regarding 3 in a row 30-day entries now applying to 3 in a row visas too. There was allot of speculation at the time that this would be the next shoe to fall...multiple visas in a row but so far, not for me, with 3 now and counting. I guess maybe my key visa application would be the next one, the 4th, after having received 3 in a row now. However, I didn't received any warning after receiving this 3rd visa that the next time I might be refused (not that they still couldn't do it anyway). Only time will tell.

Anyway, the point being that the consulate officer looking through my passport could easily determine that I am basically living in Thailand full-time (multiple visas, extension stamps, in and out every 2-3 months but no return to USA in years). Despite this, I received another visa and no warning and someone else apparently did. TIT

Edited June 28, 2007 by JonnieB

[georgebkk]

Remember to get the extension or a free 30-day visa-exempt stamp inbetween each TV, and don't go to the same consulate every time, and you'll be 'legal' (for now, at least...)

[eek]

can you elaborate what you are asking JonnieB tropo, im curious at to what you mean, and a unfortunately a bit confused.

As for me im Female, early 30's, 3rd TV (intend to have this one stamped for 90 days, same as the others) and 2 border stamps in my passport from Thailand, along with other previous other stamps from other countries in my passport.

I intend to go for a 4th TV when this one runs out.

[tropo]

can you elaborate what you are asking JonnieB tropo, im curious at to what you mean, and a unfortunately a bit confused.

As for me im Female, early 30's, 3rd TV (intend to have this one stamped for 90 days, same as the others) and 2 border stamps in my passport from Thailand, along with other previous other stamps from other countries in my passport.

I intend to go for a 4th TV when this one runs out.

Sure Eek (and JonnieB), I'll explain the reason for my questions to JonnieB.

There's been a lot of reference on this forum to the term "back-to-back".

The title of this thread is "replying to Pinang tourist visas Back to Back.

"back-to-back" is a term that refers to consecutive tourist visas without any break in between i.e. No border runs in between them, no time in between them....just following on from one to the next without a break; basically used by "defacto-tourists" as a way to live in Thailand on a permanent basis.

It has become common knowledge among regular readers here that Thai Immigration are not concerned with what happened before October 1, 2006. They started making counts and notes from that date.

...therefore...

I assumed when JonnieB said he had "5 in a row" in his passport that he meant 5 consecutive (back-to-back) tourist visas since October 1, 2006

So far I've heard of several people who have attained their 4th back-to-back tourist visa SINCE October 1, 2006. If a tourist visa holder got the allowed 30 day extension on every tourist visa since then, then that person would by now be on his 4th back-to-back tourist visa.

[tropo]

the email below came to me today from what i consider to be a reliable source in pinang (penang) who acts as a visa agent

any inofrmation to verify, confirm and/or refute is desired

when the 'warning' becomes a refusal to issue another 60 day tourist visa,

we will be looking at the next major change

someone close to me lies at the end of the visa run issue starting 0ct 1 2006 when enforcement changed

his/her/its last 30 day stamp was issued right before oct 1

he/she/it plans to head to penang july 25 for thai tourist visa number 3 (in a row)

no airline reservation has been made yet but the fares minus fees are about 700-900 baht each way with airasia

EMAIL:

About the back to back tourist visa you were asking. Since 15th June

we have notice that all applicants with 3 tourist visa back to back are

being stamp a remark : The holder of this passport travels in Thailand

under a tourist visa several times which may result in the refusal of a visa

in the future. We have referred this to the Penang Consulate,

according to them it's just a notice, so far there is no confirmation that you will not

given one however,

nobody knows what's going to happen next. This week the person who are incharge

of approving and signing the application has changed.

So we'll see of any changes.

After I read your post here I sent a copy of your e-mail to my own visa agent in Penang. As it turns out, they are the same agent.

This is definitely a step backward for all of the people hoping to get back-to-back tourist visas ad infinitum.

Here is the reply I just received from my visa agent, whom I might add, is one of the prominent agents in Penang:

First my email :

>Hi *****

>I was reading on a forum that some people applying for

> tourist visas in Penang are getting remarks in their

> passports as follows:

>

> "About the back to back tourist visa you were asking.

> Since 15th June we have notice that all applicants

> with 3 tourist visa back to back are being stamp a

> remark : The holder of this passport travels in

> Thailand under a tourist visa several times which may

> result in the refusal of a visa in the future"

>

> Is this true?

>

> Kind regards,

>Tropo

Then the reply (from visa agent) :

Yes, it true. These was my answer to a customer. However, it's not

confirm

that the Penang Consulate

will not give anymore tourist visa to applicants with this remark in

future.

This week the person signing and

approving the applications has changed . So, nobody knows what's going

to

change again. We will keep you

inform of any changes.

If you are planning to stay in Thailand for long, you are advised to

work

and apply for a non-immigrant B visa.

First time application will be given 3mths and 2nd time once you get

your

work permit, we can apply for 1 year

visa with multiple entry for you.

Regards

*****

I can just about see the smile on the faces of some of the "hey, get legal", "why are you living in Thailand on a tourist visa", "it's about time you guys left", "why can't you get a proper visa", "get out, you've been here too long" scare mongerers on this forum.

Edited June 28, 2007 by tropo

[JonnieB]

I did some editing and clean-up of my post above to clarify my situation. The short of it is this most recent visa was my 3rd since after October 2006. On each of the prior 2, I also did a 30-day extension on them (not to meet any kind of rule for another visa in a row but because I didn't want to go anywhere so soon). I received no warning in my passport this time.

Only time will tell if on the 4th I get the visa with no warning again, visa with warning, or no visa at all. TIT

[Charles2550]

It would be interesting to hear if similar threatening notices have been issued by, so far, reputably "not unfriendly" Thai Consulates in South East Asia... Vientiane for example? Others?

[eek]

ty tropo. Was good of you also to post what that email.

Well, fingers crossed the stamp doesnt become the norm. Even better, fingers crossed we have some kind of alternative to the tourist visa in the future for people who are not of retirement age and who have means to support themselves in LOS.

[toolonginexile]

about a month ago or so i picked up the rumour that the thai embassy in vientiane/ laos would issue back-to-back, that is as many consecutive tourist visas as you like. when in laos myself next week i will try to get some more information BUT if it was possible AT THE MOMENT to get consecutive tvs there could you rely on this in the FUTURE?? i would personally not take the risk even though vientiane is my favourite place to go for a new visa. always safer not to use the same embassy twice in a row and do a border run in between.

[eek]

but...if you do a border run in between, how does that work out really with regards to the 90 days stay rule?

If you have 3x tourist visa (with the 90 days extension) then 3x border runs, does it cancel out the new regulations because it is then 12 months in LOS?

Or, does the fact that you have accumulated 3 border stamps mean you still have to leave thailand for 6 months?

(hope im making sense..im not very good at trying to explain what i mean here..)

[tropo]

but...if you do a border run in between, how does that work out really with regards to the 90 days stay rule?

If you have 3x tourist visa (with the 90 days extension) then 3x border runs, does it cancel out the new regulations because it is then 12 months in LOS?

Or, does the fact that you have accumulated 3 border stamps mean you still have to leave thailand for 6 months?

(hope im making sense..im not very good at trying to explain what i mean here..)

These questions cannot be answered at present. We really don't know how the consulate is viewing combination tourist visa/border-runs in regards to issuing new visas.

We've learned only this week that the Penang Consulate has started placing remarks in peoples' passports. We've yet to hear from a credible source (in contrast to a 1 post newbie) of anyone actually being refused a back-to-back tourist visa in Penang...but it's not looking good.

Just keep reading on here often to keep in touch with that's actually happening on the ground.

PS. Even in the worst case scenario that you cannot get a visa, you'll only have to stay away for 3 months (not 6).

[Fred Sanford]

Visa exempt stamps are not going to help you in this situation I can assure you. As for this warning in the passport, it eerily reminds me of last June when I went to Penang (I think someone posted about it). At that time no one knew that triple entry tourist visas would come to an end in a few months. I went there a year ago and was told that only single entries were being issued that week (mid June). The bad part is that the agent told me the same or similar thing the OP was told in his email, that a new person was at consulate. My guess is deja vu all over again ony this time it's back to back to back tourist visas (entry stamp combined or whatever) that are being phased out. My guess is come the Oct 1 anniversary of the visa exempt crackdown, that more than 6 months per year of tourist visas and visa exempt combinations will not be permitted. The handwriting is on the wall good people, with all the shit that's going on with passport warnings and counting of days at the border. I told myself the past 9 months that this wouldn't happen but I've thrown in the towel after learning of this development. This will affect A LOT of people. All those unmarrieds and under 50 folks will be up a creek w/o a paddle. This sux if you ask me. I also fear that people getting back to back Non Os w/o meeting proper financial requirements will be next. My guess is that things are going to be done by the book and soon. I suspect that no flexibilty will be given at that point. A whole load of people are about to get screwed who have set up life here but can't get a by-the-book long term visa due to any one or more factors.

***what a coincidence, the visa I got last year (the 1st non tripler in Penang) was issued on June 15 (just checked passport)

Edited June 28, 2007 by Fred Sanford

[tropo]

Visa exempt stamps are not going to help you in this situation I can assure you.

How can you assure us of anything? You're guessing, and that's all you'll ever be able to do regarding the future of Thailand's visa regulations and enforcement thereof.

In case you've forgotten, Thailand is still in the middle of political turmoil, so absolutely nothing is certain.

It serves no purpose to come on here to scare monger.

Let's keep to the facts and wait to see what happens.

**** And I got a triple entry visa from Penang in late August, and my Filipino GF a double-entry....go figure.

Edited June 29, 2007 by tropo

[eek]

Well, I dont know how i got it into my head that people need to stay away for 6 months! 3 months is not great, but compared to 6 months i guess im happy(ier). Like you say, if worse comes to worse can find somewhere else to stay for 3 months. Guess the best thing is to have some kind of contingency plan prepared.

[Mai Krap]

Visa exempt stamps are not going to help you in this situation I can assure you.

How can you assure us of anything? You're guessing, and that's all you'll ever be able to do regarding the future of Thailand's visa regulations and enforcement thereof.

In case you've forgotten, Thailand is still in the middle of political turmoil, so absolutely nothing is certain.

It serves no purpose to come on here to scare monger.

Let's keep to the facts and wait to see what happens.

**** And I got a triple entry visa from Penang in late August, and my Filipino GF a double-entry....go figure.

x 10

[Fred Sanford]

Tropo, not scaremongering buddy at all. I have many friends in this quandry over what's going to happen. I know that the exemption stamps being used as a way to live in Thailand are looked down upon in the highest regard by immi so I can't imagine them as an out if 60 day tourist visas are to be limited. As eek says, have a contingency plan just in case. All the developments of the last year are nauseating. Better to be safe than sorry and not get shocked when shit flies

Edited June 29, 2007 by Fred Sanford

[tropo]

I know that the exemption stamps being used as a way to live in Thailand are looked down upon in the highest regard by immi so I can't imagine them as an out if 60 day tourist visas are to be limited. As eek says, have a contingency plan just in case.

I'm just trying to stay positive in these trying times.

It may well be better to apply for a tourist visa in Penang every 6 months, than every 3 months as there will be less highly visable tourist visas stuck in my passport.

I agree that having a contingency plan is wise.

The way I look at it, next time I go there will be my second tourist visa since October. If I manage 3 border runs after my tourist visa runs out at the end of August, I won't need to return to Penang until end of November, and even if I get a negative remark in my passport, I'll still be set until end of February. If I undertook 3 more border runs after that, I wouldn't be looking for another tourist visa until next May.

Even if I don't do the in-between border runs and I receive the "remark" on my next Penang visa run, I'll be set until at least end of November. This is my contingency plan.

[hotgeekus]

home country, penang, hk, and shanghai, so four straight, all with the 30 day extension...

[Fred Sanford]

Any more reports of remarks in passports out there?

[CyberViking]

Aargh! The last thing I needed to see!

This confirms a rumor hinted at in another thread a couple of weeks back that Penang was going to get "strict". And I had also heard from a local (!) a couple of nights ago downtown that visas would be getting "harder". I guess the rumors that make the rounds around Thailand are worth listening to.

It was almost predictable, like physics: there had to be an equal and opposite reaction to their lightening up on the "O" and "B" visas.

OK, if worse comes to worse, let's see ... I'm more or less assured of getting my third TV. That's 60 days plus, presumably, the 30-day extension. That will take me out past the middle of October. Plenty of time to consider alternatives. And that's not taking into account embassies/consulates elsewhere that may still be generous in issuing TVs. I'll not count on border runs to stretch any of that out.

Agree that it's getting to be time to throw in the towel. Luckily, I don't have too much time invested here (about 18 months now), so it won't be too much of a convulsion. Heck, I moved around more often when I was in the military.

[astral]

home country, penang, hk, and shanghai, so four straight, all with the 30 day extension...

Yes, but you are talking about the past, like many of the other posters.

The Penang endorsement is a warning for the future...............

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

home country, penang, hk, and shanghai, so four straight, all with the 30 day extension...

Yes, but you are talking about the past, like many of the other posters.

The Penang endorsement is a warning for the future...............

Any confirmation. I got my fourth in KL with no warning and haven't heard of anyone personally getting this warning?

4 in a row is decent between home country visits but hard to determine if there is any policy to this or just an aberration.

[Fred Sanford]

what date did you get this recent visa cobra?

[bruceboy]

Looks like the government is tightening up on illegals. Everyone should have the right visa before they come to Thailand.

[astral]

Looks like the government is tightening up on illegals. Everyone should have the right visa before they come to Thailand.

Slowly closing the loopholes.