Residency for older person with Dementia

[cmjl]

I may have posted this in the wrong place! I have an older male friend (77 this month),he lived in Thailand for quite a few years so does speak some Thai,he is healthy in body but his brain is letting him down,at the moment he is living in the UK but wants to move where it's warmer. Does anyone have any experience of a relative in a facility for such people,he doesn't need/require anything fancy, any ideas welcome along with approx prices or suggestions,drawbacks,problems etc

Thanks in advance for any help you may be able to give

ps I am traveling to Thailand on the 18th and will be there for a month then traveling to Oz for  a similar length of time then back in Thailand till the beginning of April so may be able to check out some suggestions

[Northstar1]

77 with dementia?

stay home!

thailand certainly isn’t the place to go.

[nigelforbes]

It's potentially very dooable and from a quality of life perspective, probably a very good alternative to a rest home in the UK. There are several places where he could live, one such place that takes dementia patients in the North is linked here: https://mckean.or.th/, they are very highly regarded.

 

 

[Salerno]

1 hour ago, Northstar1 said:

77 with dementia?

stay home!

thailand certainly isn’t the place to go.

Why?

[ezzra]

There are some retirement homes in Pattaya that for the some of around 50-70,000 baht a month they will enjoy a full board and medical care where one can stay there for years and years...

[cnx1204]

Make sure anyone with dementia living in an assisted living facility has a competent and trustworthy friend/guardian available locally legally allowed to make decisions for/about him (or her as the case may be).

[metisdead]

Moving to the Health and Medicine forum. 

[howerde]

With dementia i would have him stay in the UK the quality of care for dementia is light years ahead of Thailand, do not confuse dementia care with simple old age care  where you just have trouble with movement etc.

I had a parent with dementia the issues are huge anger/unable to swallow etc etc, general care assistants would not cope with this

Also due to the strict libel/slander laws in Thailand you would never read a bad review, there are a few facilities in Thailand mentioned my thoughts are that foreigners that go to these places are ones who retired here and have no way of going back to the UK, either for medical reasons and/or they would not qualify for care in the UK.

I have a Thai friend whos father recently passed away, to give you some ides of cost, the facility was in Bangkok, single room was 100 000 baht a month/ shared room 50 000 seemed ok remember the food is for Thais, he did not have covid, on entering  but contacted it there, so they said he would have to stay in the single room, there were visits from the hospital by a doctor. who every few weeks said he needed tests in hospital these were added to the bill, towards the end he was put on a ventilator the cost was 30 000baht a day, this was not an international hospital,  as a Thai this was care was paid by the government under some gold card scheme.

And as mentioned who is going to make all the decisions for him medically/financially this alone would take up a lot of time hard enough for a family member, but a stranger! 

[nigelforbes]

2 minutes ago, howerde said:

With dementia i would have him stay in the UK the quality of care for dementia is light years ahead of Thailand, do not confuse dementia care with simple old age care  where you just have trouble with movement etc.

I had a parent with dementia the issues are huge anger/unable to swallow etc etc, general care assistants would not cope with this

Also due to the strict libel/slander laws in Thailand you would never read a bad review, there are a few facilities in Thailand mentioned my thoughts are that foreigners that go to these places are ones who retired here and have no way of going back to the UK, either for medical reasons and/or they would not qualify for care in the UK.

I have a Thai friend whos father recently passed away, to give you some ides of cost, the facility was in Bangkok, single room was 100 000 baht a month/ shared room 50 000 seemed ok remember the food is for Thais, he did not have covid, on entering  but contacted it there, so they said he would have to stay in the single room, there were visits from the hospital by a doctor. who every few weeks said he needed tests in hospital these were added to the bill, towards the end he was put on a ventilator the cost was 30 000baht a day, this was not an international hospital,  as a Thai this was care was paid by the government under some gold card scheme.

And as mentioned who is going to make all the decisions for him medically/financially this alone would take up a lot of time hard enough for a family member, but a stranger! 

Why do you think dementia care in the UK is light years ahead of Thailand?

[Sheryl]

First of all, do not base any decision on his current condition. Dementia is progressive and he will steadily get much, much worse. In time -- maybe not too much time --he will be oblivious to his surroundings and have no idea where he is, let alone enjoy the warmer weather.

 

Secondly as other poster advised, it is essential there be someone - with a power of attorney and health care proxy - living in the area where he is. Someone has to oversee his care and see to his affairs. It does not need much time (at least nto initially) but it does need physical presence.

 

Lastly as someone else also advised, McKean Hosptals' Dok Kaew gardens in Chiang Mai is by far the best place and probably the only one I could recommend in a case like this.   https://mckean.or.th/dok-kaew-gardens/

(whatever level of care he starts out at, he will eventually need the highest level so factor that into the financial decisions)

[howerde]

On 1/2/2023 at 10:25 AM, nigelforbes said:

Why do you think dementia care in the UK is light years ahead of Thailand?

My mother had dementia i saw what it did to her( i saw the care and compassion given by medical staff, there were dementia groups where the patients were encouraged to engage in the activities i have seen the care here in Thailand of the elderly( there were very few Thai staff the doctors yes, the care staff were from Myanmar( i doubt they had any meaningful medical training), remember the smiles/ seemingly  helpful attitudes  in Thailand mean nothing, in the UK i saw compassion with the medical staff, not here it is just another job but with a smile that soon fades if you scratch beneath the surface

I live here full time now but have been coming to Thailand for over 30 years, and have experienced the medical system here myself and seen Thai friends treatment.

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by howerde

[Salerno]

8 minutes ago, howerde said:

My mother had dementia i saw what it did to her( i saw the care and compassion given by medical staff, i have seen the care here in Thailand of the elderly( there were very few Thai staff the doctors yes, the care staff were from Myanmar( i doubt they had any meaningful medical training), remember the smiles/ seemingly  helpful attitudes  in Thailand mean nothing, in the UK i saw compassion with the medical staff, not here it is just another job but with a smile that soon fades if you scratch beneath the surface

I live here full time now but have been coming to Thailand for over 30 years, and have experienced the medical system here myself and seen Thai friends treatment.

There is good and bad in all countries. To write off a country based on anecdotal evidence is a mistake. The main factors are due diligence and the means to pay for the required level of care.

 

https://corpwatchers.eu/en/investigations/caring-for-profit-en/bupa-aged-care-homes-in-australia-the-uk-regularly-rated-inadequate

 

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/24-years-18-inquiries-can-we-face-the-truth-of-aged-care-20210225-p575qs.html

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brithdir-nursing-home-wales-inquest-b1818123.html

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/video/2022/oct/13/hidden-camera-reveals-abuse-by-care-home-staff-of-dementia-patient-ann-king-video

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/jun/06/shocking-rate-of-sexual-abuse-against-aged-care-residents-barely-changed-since-royal-commission

 

https://www.insideagedcare.com/aged-care-analysis/19-years-of-care/scandal-after-scandal#company-wide-and-world-wide

 

etc. etc.

 

I see no reason for the definitive "thailand certainly isn’t the place to go." made by another poster nor your comments (although you obviously have every right to your opinion) without taking into account the individual in question's situation (existing family/support and financial wise).

 

Personally, I'd prefer to see my days out (even if I got to the stage of not knowing what day it was, never mind what country I'm in) in the country of my choosing than be forced back into one of the many scandalous "western" so called aged care facilities I've read about. The chances are you can more easily avail yourself of the level of care you want at a more affordable price in Thailand or neighbouring countries than in the west, the difficult part perhaps (not impossible part) being finding responsible carers.

[connda]

He's going to need enough funds in the bank for a retirement visa and then funds for long-term care.
There was a case like this in Chiang Mai a few years back.  An old lady with Alzheimer being cared for at a special long-term care.  She was essentially kicked out of Thailand as her family couldn't afford retirement funds and the cost of long-term care.
The family of that old women ended up finding a long-term care home in The Philippines.
It seems The PI has more humanitarian visa options than xenophobic Thailand.

Now, you'd think that this is exactly what a Medical Visa would be about.  It's not.

[connda]

On 1/2/2023 at 10:25 AM, nigelforbes said:

Why do you think dementia care in the UK is light years ahead of Thailand?

The NHS is imploding.  So?  Not anymore.

[cmjl]

Thank you all for your replies,I have been in touch with Dok Kaew  gardens,the practicalities will have to be sorted out before any decisions are made as to whether it would work for him and his family

[cdemundo]

On 1/1/2023 at 1:48 PM, Northstar1 said:

77 with dementia?

stay home!

thailand certainly isn’t the place to go.

Funny, before I saw this thread I was just thinking it would be interesting to know if frequent posters here on ASEANNOW had been diagnosed with dementia.

I feel it would clarify a lot of things.