Beekeepers In Thailand

[Maizefarmer]

hi maizfarmer, i to am glad to see you about. ref the giant honey bee, asian, have you any pics of it and are you sure its a bee, cant find any ref to ghb,s and i have the beekeepers bible to hand, thanks egg6447

Yes - absolutely 100% certain it is a a bee I am talking about - as certain as the sun will rise this morning. Attached below is a picture of the typical European Honey Bee(left) alongside the Giant Asian Honey bee (right) - both are worker bees.

Yes they really are about 2,5 x as big as their European cousins. They are huge. Belwo is a little additional information and some personal experiance!

The Giant Asian honey bee does not live in a hive (and will not stay in one if placed there). They live in the open - building a single large comb usualy under the fork of a branch high up in the same tree season after season.

The fascinating thing about this bee is its ability to navigate - in the dry season the swarms leave northern Thailand and return to Malaysia. Come the next wet season the fly back to the branch of the same tree in Northern Thailand! What makes this journey so remarkable is that out of the bees that left Thailand the previous season, the only bee in the swarm that would knows its way back to the tree in Northern Thailand after spending the dry season in Malaysia is the queen. All the worker bees from the previous season would have died off by then. And she to has being eleminated as the "navigator". In research done in Thailand (by Siriwat Wongsiri - a Thai entimologist at Chula who has written a book called The Asian Honey Bee ISBN 0674021940 - a good read) a swarm from Thailand was traced to Malaysia and the queen was removed. That swarm none the less found its way back to the same tree in Thailand the following season!

Now you tell me where the continuity is?

Other than for the size differance (s if it this werent enough), the black/yellow banding on the abdoman is very well defined on the Giant Asian Honey bee, whereas on the European honey be it is far less distinct.

Off the top of my head the Giant Asian Honey bee is about 3cm - 3.2cm in length (tip of abdoman to tip of head).

I said it before - I'll say it again: beware these guys are not to be messed with. I alternated my childhood between Thailand and East Africa, were as a 6 - 9yr old kid I used to go raiding so-called wild African bee's which live anywhere they can (in old tree trunks, in roofs and under rocky outcrops). It was great fun and provided a constant source of delicous honey in the house.

As an adult some years ago, I tried once to raid the nest of a swarm of Giant asian Honey bees who had taken up residence on a tree by the river. There was one single enourmous double sided honey comb which measured something like 5' across and about 6' in a large arc hanging down. How much honey was that? - somewhere 30kg - 50kg's I guess. To get to the swarm we made a bow and arrow - using the arrow to carry over the fork of the trunk some light string, which was in turn used to drag up a length of rope - which was to be used firstly to drag up an old smoldering corn sack soaked in diesel, and then a few minutes later myself.

After applying the smoke for about 15 minutes - fire is a bee's natural enemy and they respond naturaly by gourging themselves with honey in prepareation for having to leave their home and loosing their food stores. With a gourged abdoman bees are less able to bend their abdoman and sting - that is why/how smoke works when dealing with bees. I prepeared myself to venture forth - into the great unknown. The Thai's (who I should add had all warned me repeatedly that what i was doing was stark raving mad) proceeded to drag me up with the rope.

Must of got about 3m - 4m off the ground at most, when all hel_l broke loose. The rope went loose, everyone ran like fxxk and I hit the ground with a thump. It was almost as if the bastards were waiting for the most vurnerable moment.

The whole swarm fell from the honey comb like a sheet of small stones. The noise they made as they fell, I've never forgotten it. It was like torrential rain pelting a corrugated tin roof. I didn't feel any stings there & then. I was on an adrenalin overload. It felt like pelting rain or small hailstones were being thrown at me. I got up and ran like fxxk for the water in the river, to scared to take a breath in case I swallowed a bee! and stayed down as long as a could.

When I came up they'd left me alone but you couldn;t get anywhere near tree. Now I could see them - swarming around the stuff we had left on the ground - which we left till the following day.

Although we had a good laugh and a was given a good we told so finger wagging by everyone else, truth is things could have being far far worse (falling out of a tree from 15m - 20m is no laughing matter - and is what kills most folk each year who push their luck with these little characters).

So my message to all is - leave them out, or at least find some old honey collector who has years of experiance. There are a few still around.

Scale the picture below so that the Giant Asian honey bee (right hand side) is between 3cm -3.2cm - which is its approx size. The European honey bee is on the left, and will adjust in size accrodingly t give you a pretty good indication of its size side by side with the Giant Asian honey bee

Edited February 5, 2008 by Maizefarmer

[egg6447]

hi m/f , thanks for the pic . followed up on it with ozdoms web site. no mention of megapis. to be honest the name put me on amediat allert, read megapiss, ie extracting the urine. are you haveing a pop there oz, strikes me as comical anyway.. m/f a great story ref the non collection of your wild honey, very good bar stool fun, makes a change from cats. didnt elaberate on the sting/s?.. stringing a couple of your bee threads together, have you tried two queens in one hive, seperated of course, i used it all the time at one time and could get a very strong colony, maybe 70000 bees. if theres a good flow on you,ll get more than the average yeald. wow i love this subject. regards

[Lite Beer]

Here is another Bee thread.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=148167

[akumabito]

...sorry, stupid question, but what is the timeframe for the honey yields mentioned? I assume this is per year, or am I mistaken?

[egg6447]

...sorry, stupid question, but what is the timeframe for the honey yields mentioned? I assume this is per year, or am I mistaken?

ok, normaly a yield would be annual, most references, but for the traveling beekeepers, i called it cropping, i took yields by the flow, ie oilseed rape was the start of my honey collection, sometime onto beans, sometime onto fruit orchards, sometimes heather. if you put in the time you realy pump up the yield. the yield is usualy x kilo to the hive, but for my style of beekeeping and manipulation , tricks ect, i never realy new how many hives were involved as i always stole workers from one hive to increase the work force in another. i realise this is a bit difficult to understand, your answer realy deserves a lecture. but for simplicity, yes. sorry for any confusion.

[Maizefarmer]

Egg6447

Educate me please - 2 queens in the same box to strengthen the swarm!

I can see where youre coming from - obviously they would need to be seperated - I guess by way of 2 spaced excluder grids between supers (correct?) so they couldn;t get at each other, but what about the following issues:

- how do the worker bees decide which queen to support - wouldn't they be inclined to destroy one of the queens?

- what happens when it comes to natural swarming - who do they work out which workers stay and which go?

I can see how you could physically keep 2 queens in the same hive and physically seperated, but I don't understand how the natural social issues related to swarm and hive dynamics are kept in order?

Very intersting indeed - please educate me.

That all said, I'm not sure it would be viable in Thailand. Could be wrong, but the problem in most of Thailand is maintaining decent swarm sizes to start with simply because food densities are so low especialy in the dry season. i.e. one can;t have a bigger swarm than the area will be able to sustain.

MF

[egg6447]

hi mf, hope i can explain in a mail, lectures are easier for me. right there is a bourd called snellgrove bourd, designed by the man himself. it is a wooden bourd with queen excluder in the middle. both sides of the bourd has a 5/16 inch batten round the edge, all four sides have removable wedges , for entrance, top and bottom, now, you put a queen in a brood chambre, in the bottom, excluder, and super/s, snellgrove, broodbox with 2nd queen. now when top queen is laying well, you,ll know by the traffic, oh they are useing one entrance on top of snellgrove, all other entrances are closed on the snellgrove, now when you want to boost workers in the suppered hive, close said entrance, open entrance undernieth previouse entrance, now closed, open new entrance on another side of snellgrove/hive, the workers from the top brood box return from forageing to the old entrance, you have cunningly opened the one immediatly below it. the returning workers are accepted without malice as they are loaded with honey/pollen. the new bees to be born in the top carry on as before useing the new entrance round the side, when strong again repeat. easy init. sereasly it took me a long time to get my head round this concept. i still remember the pleasure when i accomplished it. also im not to good a the written word so something may be lacking. another trick if you bring in a new hive to your site, remove a existing hive replace with new hive, put removed hive where you wanted the new hive, again the returning workers will come back to there old site, full with goodies so again no fighting, fully accepted, so your new hive on the old site now has twice its workforce, so if youve got two hive with 30000 workers, youve now got one very strong hive with 60000 workers. now that is a strong hive. all this is worked in with a flow of course. i would always advise three hive on one site as it opens up all kinds of possibilities. hope im not over the top. thing is a casual question from a interested bloke in the bar is very different to a answer to a beekeeper, hence my lecture comment. only to pleased to help in any way. regards.

[egg6447]

Egg6447

Educate me please - 2 queens in the same box to strengthen the swarm!

I can see where youre coming from - obviously they would need to be seperated - I guess by way of 2 spaced excluder grids between supers (correct?) so they couldn;t get at each other, but what about the following issues:

- how do the worker bees decide which queen to support - wouldn't they be inclined to destroy one of the queens?

- what happens when it comes to natural swarming - who do they work out which workers stay and which go?

I can see how you could physically keep 2 queens in the same hive and physically seperated, but I don't understand how the natural social issues related to swarm and hive dynamics are kept in order?

Very intersting indeed - please educate me.

That all said, I'm not sure it would be viable in Thailand. Could be wrong, but the problem in most of Thailand is maintaining decent swarm sizes to start with simply because food densities are so low especialy in the dry season. i.e. one can;t have a bigger swarm than the area will be able to sustain.

your hived bee,s are not a swarm, if theres no flow, feed suger water, they have been known to fly 9 miles for forage, no real return for you but it keeps them busy.. my tiled front garden is absolutly sticky with dripping necter from my mango, no bees to be seen. strange to say without cropping some of the better foraging is in suberbia, obvious when you think about it. try serching snellgrove, no pc,s when i was at it. regards

MF

[Maizefarmer]

hi mf, hope i can explain in a mail, lectures are easier for me. right there is a bourd called snellgrove bourd, designed by the man himself. it is a wooden bourd with queen excluder in the middle. both sides of the bourd has a 5/16 inch batten round the edge, all four sides have removable wedges , for entrance, top and bottom, now, you put a queen in a brood chambre, in the bottom, excluder, and super/s, snellgrove, broodbox with 2nd queen. now when top queen is laying well, you,ll know by the traffic, oh they are useing one entrance on top of snellgrove, all other entrances are closed on the snellgrove, now when you want to boost workers in the suppered hive, close said entrance, open entrance undernieth previouse entrance, now closed, open new entrance on another side of snellgrove/hive, the workers from the top brood box return from forageing to the old entrance, you have cunningly opened the one immediatly below it. the returning workers are accepted without malice as they are loaded with honey/pollen. the new bees to be born in the top carry on as before useing the new entrance round the side, when strong again repeat. easy init. sereasly it took me a long time to get my head round this concept. i still remember the pleasure when i accomplished it. also im not to good a the written word so something may be lacking. another trick if you bring in a new hive to your site, remove a existing hive replace with new hive, put removed hive where you wanted the new hive, again the returning workers will come back to there old site, full with goodies so again no fighting, fully accepted, so your new hive on the old site now has twice its workforce, so if youve got two hive with 30000 workers, youve now got one very strong hive with 60000 workers. now that is a strong hive. all this is worked in with a flow of course. i would always advise three hive on one site as it opens up all kinds of possibilities. hope im not over the top. thing is a casual question from a interested bloke in the bar is very different to a answer to a beekeeper, hence my lecture comment. only to pleased to help in any way. regards.

How interesting indeed - all well beyond me quite frankly.

i ahve a number of hives - a couple for the garden (which is about 3rai in size and a few more that spend there lives being moved around vegetable fields. I have tried on occassion to tae honey out of them, but for the effort involved to get what I do, its easier just to go down to the market and buy some.

So all hives just spend their time providing bees for pollination - and I'm happy with that.

As for the idea you are telling me about, I cant see it working except for a few places in Thailand (and certainly not where I am) as we do not have the food densities needed to support European size swarms. Still, it was an interesting read- thanx.

MF

[LarryPeiffer]

hi mf, hope i can explain in a mail, lectures are easier for me. right there is a bourd called snellgrove bourd, designed by the man himself. it is a wooden bourd with queen excluder in the middle. both sides of the bourd has a 5/16 inch batten round the edge, all four sides have removable wedges , for entrance, top and bottom, now, you put a queen in a brood chambre, in the bottom, excluder, and super/s, snellgrove, broodbox with 2nd queen. now when top queen is laying well, you,ll know by the traffic, oh they are useing one entrance on top of snellgrove, all other entrances are closed on the snellgrove, now when you want to boost workers in the suppered hive, close said entrance, open entrance undernieth previouse entrance, now closed, open new entrance on another side of snellgrove/hive, the workers from the top brood box return from forageing to the old entrance, you have cunningly opened the one immediatly below it. the returning workers are accepted without malice as they are loaded with honey/pollen. the new bees to be born in the top carry on as before useing the new entrance round the side, when strong again repeat. easy init. sereasly it took me a long time to get my head round this concept. i still remember the pleasure when i accomplished it. also im not to good a the written word so something may be lacking. another trick if you bring in a new hive to your site, remove a existing hive replace with new hive, put removed hive where you wanted the new hive, again the returning workers will come back to there old site, full with goodies so again no fighting, fully accepted, so your new hive on the old site now has twice its workforce, so if youve got two hive with 30000 workers, youve now got one very strong hive with 60000 workers. now that is a strong hive. all this is worked in with a flow of course. i would always advise three hive on one site as it opens up all kinds of possibilities. hope im not over the top. thing is a casual question from a interested bloke in the bar is very different to a answer to a beekeeper, hence my lecture comment. only to pleased to help in any way. regards.

How interesting indeed - all well beyond me quite frankly.

i ahve a number of hives - a couple for the garden (which is about 3rai in size and a few more that spend there lives being moved around vegetable fields. I have tried on occassion to tae honey out of them, but for the effort involved to get what I do, its easier just to go down to the market and buy some.

So all hives just spend their time providing bees for pollination - and I'm happy with that.

As for the idea you are telling me about, I cant see it working except for a few places in Thailand (and certainly not where I am) as we do not have the food densities needed to support European size swarms. Still, it was an interesting read- thanx.

MF

Hi MF,

I'm wondering what type of hives you use? Do you use Top Bar hives? Or Langstroth Hives? What is the average Honey harvest for a hive where you are at?

Larry

[dreamtime]

Hello,

Can someone give me a referral on where I can buy a bulk amount of beeswax? I want to use it for making candles. Therefore, it doesn't have to be the highest quality. I'm located in Khon Kaen. Thanks.

S

[MrWiggle]

I just bought a hive from the bee farmer near Muak lek.

Lets see how it goes.

[MrWiggle]

Busy downloading sites now on beekeeping to read when time permits.

Does anyone know what the best flowers are for bees ? Do papaya flowers attract bees ? I know sunflower is excellent.

Thinking to plant some of the easiest to grow and best for the bees type in areas that we do not use for anything else.

[Maizefarmer]

Wiggle - in Thailand the question is not which is best, but which is in most abundance - this wil determine your honey yield. The bee its self cares little which flower it is, so long as there are enough for her to source both her immediate energy requirments and excess to store in the hive.

Any vegatable flower will do, fruit orchids are great - and farmers growing fruit appreciate hives in the orchid, inclduing papaya platations - but if there is a cane field long side, or any other flowering crop with a greater abundance of flowers, then thats where the bees are going to go.

As for growing a flower or crop to support bees(?): I foget the figures but it must be something like 10 acres (if not more) of flowers per 100 grams of honey. It really is a big conversion factor whatever it is - which shows just how much work bees do during their short +/- 6 week lifespan - so as for growing flowers to attract bees: unless its some large area, the impact its going to have on attracting bee to your garden is going to be min, and then only for the few days or so that nectare is avalible for them to harvest.

Keeping a hive in the garden does though have a big impact on the amount of flowers you'll have - you'll get a lot more.

[volk]

I am working in beekeeping project in Cambodia,I am starting with similar project in South Thailand.I have beekeeping school in Pursat province,in rainy forest.

I have question,if anybody know,where can I buy bees in South Thailand or in Central Thailand.

Is there anybody who bring bees to rubber plantations or eucaliptus?

Matjaz

[Maizefarmer]

Central Thailand - try the government bee research station just outside Pak Chong - on the way to Khao Yai - it's on the right hand side of the road: turn off the highway at Pak Chong and head towards the National Park on the 2090 (I think its the 2090): the bee reserach station is about 2km's before you get to the Khao Yai entrance, on the right hand side of the road.

It's set back about 100yards from the 2090 - the road leading to the main building is a red earth road and the area between it and the main road is well wooded with eucalyptus and gum trees.

About 400yards before you get to the turn off, there is a large corn field, about 120rai (also on the right hand side). The corn field is distinct for a couple of raised earth islands that are in it. They're not big islands - the one closest to the road and at the far end (as if driving towards Kaho Yai) is about 300sqyards and about 50' high - its very distinct and sticks out well in contrast to the surrounding field. Immediatly past the field you are back to natural "bush". You'll know it when you see it - it really is distinct.

I know it sounds complicated, but thats probably the best way I can describe the location to you .... and if you get lost, just ask around the area: the folk round there willbe locals and one of them is sure to know where the bee reserach station is.

When you get there, speak to the old fellow that runs the place has been there 20odd years - he knows who is who and where you'll be able to get decent/healthy swarms and hives from.

[turnpike]

Wiggle - in Thailand the question is not which is best, but which is in most abundance - this wil determine your honey yield. The bee its self cares little which flower it is, so long as there are enough for her to source both her immediate energy requirments and excess to store in the hive.

Any vegatable flower will do, fruit orchids are great - and farmers growing fruit appreciate hives in the orchid, inclduing papaya platations - but if there is a cane field long side, or any other flowering crop with a greater abundance of flowers, then thats where the bees are going to go.

As for growing a flower or crop to support bees(?): I foget the figures but it must be something like 10 acres (if not more) of flowers per 100 grams of honey. It really is a big conversion factor whatever it is - which shows just how much work bees do during their short +/- 6 week lifespan - so as for growing flowers to attract bees: unless its some large area, the impact its going to have on attracting bee to your garden is going to be min, and then only for the few days or so that nectare is avalible for them to harvest.

Keeping a hive in the garden does though have a big impact on the amount of flowers you'll have - you'll get a lot more.

i spent 2 summer holidays working for a medium scale beekeeper in Manitoba in the mid seventies. hard work for 3 bucks an hour.

i remember when we processed the honey from hives (the boss called them "supers" for some reason) that were adjacent to mustard fields. the honey gathered from those supers had a distinct yellowish color to it.

[Ijustwannateach]

I'm not much of a farming expert, MF, but I do know that it has been demonstrated that bees can communicate directions to other bees for the sake of harvesting the best crop of pollen and nectar- maybe they pass similar navigation information across generations in order to migrate?

[Maizefarmer]

Thats correct ijustwannateach - bees do a "dance" which has been studied by scientists in great detail.

One of those dances takes the form of a "figure of 8" and its whether the bee does the dance in clockwise versus anticlockwise, how many times she goes round in a figure of 8 pattern, where she stops on the way round (and wiggles her backside), which way she faces when she stops, for how long she stops .... ect ect .... are all parts of the "dance" which communicates to other workers where the food is, how far it is from the hive, the direction in relation to the sun's position, the estimated amount of food, and the type of flower (defined by colour)!

There are about a dozen dances that are now understood by scientists - and bees do indeed also dance to communicate the direction to a new hive prior to natural swarming instinct kicking in.

So yes, they can and do communicate - but, you are forgetting at least 2 things: firstly, timeframe - the other worker bees will leave the hive within seconds of the dance been completed to chase up the food source, and secondly - its all bees who have witnessed the dance and who then pass the info on to other workers in the hive, that are responding.

With respect to been able to navigate 2000 miles or so a year later, there are none of the bees on that flight who undertook it before - except the queen (and even when a queen replacement has taken place during the season, the swarm still been shown to still get back to the same tree).

What you are suggesting is certainly plausible - but as the average bee only lives 6 weeks to 2months we are talking about the ability for this route to be communicated maybe 5 or 6 times over to subsequent generations, complelty accurately and done to the last second (as in degrees, minutes and seconds) - that is GPS accuracy which Uncle Sam spent billions of dollars on learning how to exploit with GPS positional satellites - and we now find the common garden bee does it with a dance (and a laugh!) on a honey comb!!

Yer, I guess what you have suggested is possible - but it sure as hel_l is pretty amazing however you look at it.

"Supers" - that is the traditional name. The hive is divided into 2 parts: the section of the hive where the queen is kept, the brood box which is the deeper box at the base of the hive where the bees are raised and which is isolated from the shallower boxes placed on top of it, by way of a grill which is large enough for worker bees to migrate through, but too small for the queen to get through - and its the upper shallower boxes which are called "Supers" - into which bees store pollen and necter for honey. Seperating the hive like this ensures that the frames taken from the hive for honey extraction, do not contain brood.

[MrWiggle]

I have been sitting and watching my bees over the last few days and they are very interesting.

The pollen jocks return witht the pollen, some yellow, some orange and dive straight into the hive. It seems that when one lands, another waiting takes off.

The soldiers stand guard at the entrance and I watched them chase off ants and wasps. I killed 3 wasps with the electric tennis racket.

A wild bee colony has set up less than 5m from my hive, my bee expert said this was not a problem and is actually very good.

a lot to learn, but very keen to do so and increase the hives in 6 motnhs if these lot survive my beekeeping abilities.

I shall visit the PC bee farm, did not even know it was there, we live not far from it.

There are not a lot of flowers on our famr currently, so if the bees increase the natural number, that shall be nice.

I notice the bees returning more in the mornings with pollen than in the afternoon.

The reason I ask about growing some flower plants for them is that when the flowers are low out in the fields or forest, that you have to feed them sugar syrup. I would presume that the supplement of specially grown flowers could replace the syrup surely as the syrup you give them is not a hel_l of a lot.....but maybe the syrup itself is so concentrate that it is the equivelant of an acre of flowers perhaps.

anyway, bee keeping is a nice hobby i currently enjoy and wish to be successfull, so lets see.

[Maizefarmer]

Keep it up ...

A wild bee colony ... any idea what type of bees?

Sugar syrup is an energy replacement - but it doesn't help with honey production.

They work more in the morning because flowers have more nectar on them in the morning, and because its cooler they use less energy to fly.

[MrWiggle]

I shall post a pick of the wild ones and my domestic hive.

I looked for the bee research farm today on way home, could not see it.

I think I saw the field with the 2 hilss in it, no corn, been ploughed and the next plot is in cassava.

The next dirt road is next to a temple and signs point to a development, no bee farm signs.

This is certainly not 2 k's from the park entrance gate, more like 15.

There is nothing like you mention that close to the park entrance that i can see anyway.

Also how long since you were up there.....not many red dirt roads off to the right, might have been paved it it was a while.

Shall start asking around tomorrow.

[Maizefarmer]

On reflection that 2km distance may well be wrong - it could be more - but its defineatly between "that field" and the park entrance.

If you take a wide angle pic of the field - stand on the corner/main road and at end furtherest from the park - point in the direction of the park - I'll recognise the photo straight away. Looking towards the park direction the island at the far end of the field (park direction end) is not far off from the main road - that I remember very clearly. Then more or less in the middle of the field, there is a clump of trees - very much larger than the raised "island" at the far end by the road.

Nope - this place is not sign posted from the main road - its dirt track of about 100 - 200yards length going off on the right hand side (at 90degrees), then it veers off slightly to the left - the buildings are located about 50yards along on the left. I don't recall a gate, and its not a big place - its easily missed. Quite well hidden behind trees even though its only 100yards or so set back. You just have to check out for the dirt road/track.

When last was I there? - about 18months back.

I tried to get a fix on google earth - but its just too blurry to make sense.

[volk]

Anybody in Thailand work with two queen system?What about eucaliptus plantations?Or rubber plantations?Anybody try with no queen system when nectar sources are strong and then destroy mites(because there is no brood,bees can colect for 25 kg more honey in this 20 days and then all mites come out(because is no brood) and we can kill them easy?)?

Matjaz

[Maizefarmer]

Not that I know about - but this has been mentioned before on the forum: would you care to share how the system works - how do you manage 2 queens in a hive, and how do you manage swarming instinct?

[volk]

I am working in Slovenia(Europe) with bees in two queen system.

Why to use two queen system?Because colony keep inside hive allways about 20000 bees,if you have 30000 bees in colony,10000 can go out and colect honey and polen.If you have nectar sources near,you can colect a few kg of honey per day.

But if you have 100000 bees in colony,20000 will stay inside and 80000 will colect honey.that means more honey.But you need place in hive for this honey.That means 10 frames for queen(brood) than queen barrier,and 30 or more frames for honey.

There are 3 systems:

1.You have 2 colonies ,and you give first box with 10 frames(with colony),queen barrier with paper(bees will destroy this paper in few days),than second with empty frames(with no bees only wax),than queen barrier,than another colony with no queen(you need to take queen out).If you have strong nectar sources(rubber tree,lytchi,sunflower....),you must give one empty hive with ten frames more.Bees will hhave more workers an more honey.Two years ago I tried 6 queen system in that way.Somethines bees make new queen in higest hive.But sometimes you can use two colonies with two queens.

2.You have one colony and you put second hive there with only brood,without bees.You must be fast,because brood without bees can stay outside for short time.Bees from first hive will go to second and carry for brood.You do not need to have queen barrier.But this bees will colect nectar 30 days latter.This is the best system,because you have 2 colonies,you take brood from one,and put brood to another.This colonie will colect large amount honey,and you will have still 2 colonies,because first will be like swarming bees.You can destroy mite in that time.

3.you have two colonies in one place.You take one to another place,and old bees will fly back.

For Asia I think,that is the best this way:

You have two colonies.Colony A and colony B.Take queen A with one frame(with brood) out and create new colony C.Take all brood from colony B and give this brood with no bees to colony A.This colony A will make new queen(but you must destroy after 5 days all CLOSED queen cells,but do not destroy open queen cells,queen will be from egg).Colony B will make all wax like swarming bees.

You must make treatment against mite:Colony A after 25 days,Colony B in a few days,Colony C when do you want.You will take honey from colony A.

I will try this year this system and another in Thailand and in Cambodia.But for queen jelly i use Ezy queen system ,queen lay eggs(400 in same time),than I put 10 eggs in one time to plastic queen cells.One colonie can make 100 queen cells with royal jelly in three days.

[Maizefarmer]

mmmmm .... I think I get what you are saying - not sure, but I don;t see it working in Thailand only because I have never seen food source densities that would support such production methods.

In the Chang Mai/ Chang Rai region (the best part of Thailand for bee keeping) hive yields don;t go much above 10kg's per year - quite low by European standards.

[MrWiggle]

Found the PC research farm.

It is at the 15k marker and about 8/9 k's from the park entrance and also has a sign out the front saying 'bee research station' in thai.

Easy to find as it is just past the police box, then on a sweeping left hand bend there are numerous plant stalls on the right for 200m and right at the last stall is the driveway into the place.

Have to go back during the week but as we went on the weekend and nobody about....even the bees looked to have disappeared for the weekend.

[MrWiggle]

Volk....where in Thailand are you doing this ??

[Maizefarmer]

Found the PC research farm.

It is at the 15k marker and about 8/9 k's from the park entrance and also has a sign out the front saying 'bee research station' in thai.

Easy to find as it is just past the police box, then on a sweeping left hand bend there are numerous plant stalls on the right for 200m and right at the last stall is the driveway into the place.

Have to go back during the week but as we went on the weekend and nobody about....even the bees looked to have disappeared for the weekend.

The plant stalls are relatively new - weren't there last time I was there.

Sweeping left hand bend going slightly uphill (?) - how from that field I was describing? If I am not mistaken the left hand side of hte road at this point is pretty narrow and steep (no space to put anything).

Good glad you found it. - actually those hives are pretty typical of bee hives in Thailand (i.e. not like Europeab swarms - a lot smaller).

Edited August 6, 2009 by Maizefarmer