Farangs Who 'go Native'.......

[qwertz]

Between the two extremes of beer swilling sex pest or "gone troppo" there are many other types.

You will never please everybody; some people will always actively search for reasons not to accept you.

The best IMO are the low profile types , like me, who:

Don't need to be noticed,

dress in normal western styles,

don't wear tattoos,

drink only in moderation,

don't subscribe to the religion,

stay cool in difficult situations,

learn at least a little Thai,

perhaps only partake of a girl or two

and don't become a general nuisance.

That way we're no offence to the majority and we don't have problems in reverting to European life later.

[soundman]

Part of "going native" as it has been put, is developing the mindset of the "locals". Unless one is born & raised in Thailand or grew up with Thai parents & teachings elsewhere, one will never really be "native" or in this case Thai.

My thought process when dealing with anything business related or with money has adapted to the Thai way of thinking very quickly. So much so, that when I hear some falang bitch & moan about this and that, I'm sitting there thinking about what goons they are to even be entertaining that notion in a foreign country, even when it might be appropriate where they have come from. Does this make me appear to have "gone native". Not at all. It is simply adapting to ones surroundings.

Going around pretending to be what you are not, is a very good way to become the "laughing stock". Going around trying to fit in, even if you are doing a bad job of it will earn much respect amid polite laughter.

Thai's, while lacking in some areas, are very peceptive people. They will quickly work out which one you are.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[Jingthing]

Gwertz, I basically agree. The middle ground as in Buddhist thought is a very good way to go. I love Thailand, I really do, or I would not be here, but I realize I will never be a Thai, and Thais would never see me as a Thai even if I wanted to. It is not like America where you can become American in a few years. And accepted as such with full legal rights. Vive la difference.

It is far more dignified to accept what one cannot change. And farangs cannot be Thai. End of story. Maybe next life?

Edited July 3, 2007 by Jingthing

[qwertz]

I forgot to mention live and let live as part of taking the middle ground.

It's the same on any foreign turf, you can work too hard at being accepted.

This doesn't mean you shouldn't integrate.

However, that calls for a balanced view and resisting the temptation to whack folks over head with your particular beliefs.

Many immigrants make this mistake and are consequently rejected by their host society.

You can learn to fit in without going native.

I've been an expat in Germany for some 18 years now, speak the language fluently and live pretty much like a German.

But there's still differentiation, I'll always be a Brit to them.

They detect my accent and often ask what the Brit thinks of this or that.

Apart from that, I've integrated and been accepted there as well there as I have everywhere else.

[lannarebirth]

I'd be willing to bet, that the same people who find a farang objectionable, for having "gone native" when he emigrated to Thailand. are the most judgemental of those who immigrate to their own home countries and fail to assimilate.

In America, I used to live next to a wonderful Lebanese family. the father loved eerything about America. He flew the flag everyday, his children worked in his shop and got straight A's at school. He did a barbeque evry weekend. to which I had a standing invitation. Through the course of the years I'd guess 20 of his extended family came to stay with him to get an American college education. He loved everyday in his newly adopted country. No one I know laughed behind his back. They couldn't have been happier that someone with such high esteem for their country had chosen to immigrate there and join the citizenry.

[Tod Daniels]

I've traveled thru many of the rural villages here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" and I've run across quite a few First Worlder’s who've gone "native". Whether it is from them having a thai wife from Nakhon Nowhere, and having chosen that lifestyle, or being on a fixed income which doesn't allow for more, I don't know. I have seen it FAR more when traveling thru the rural Northeast than anywhere else, but there were a fair number in the small villages in Northwest as well.

I cannot understand why someone would actually choose to 'assimilate' with this Borg-like 'we-b-thai' culture, as there is no up side. If I live here forever, I will NOT be thai, and quite honestly I wouldn’t EVER want to be. These people are some racist xenophobes to the extreme. They may give you the ever present but insincere thai smile, yet I have found the people from the rural villages not all that interesting on a day to day basis. Other than talking about the other villagers, there is no critical thinking, no bigger picture, no nothing, it’s just gossip

Sign me up to live in the middle of nowhere in a developing third world country, in a village populated by un(der) educated people, eating semi-gelatinous mystery meat foods, gambling on the under-ground lottery and drinking everyday. Sounds like a real paradise...

In thinking back, I believe I’ve never given a person here a wai, in going on over 3 years here. The research I’ve done shows it as a sign of respect given FROM subordinates TO superiors. I’ve yet to feel particularly subordinate to anyone I’ve met here.

I am however all for speaking the language. It is an arduous task to speak well. Once you can verbalize thoughts in more than 'two-word-thai', the thais will, while not accept you, certainly tolerate you. When there is no language barrier they can hide behind, they are much more attentive to what they say around you. Of course they will still talk behind your back, but thankfully, I am relatively unconcerned what they think of me, so what they say to my backside I care about even less.

I respect the culture here as much as I have in any other country I've lived in, but I am an American & will always be one, so deal with it. A person can respect this country’s culture without embracing some mythical 'inner thai-ness'. I would respect someone who is their own person where ever they live, how ever they act, more than I would someone who morphs into a 'pseudo-thai' just to attempt to ‘fit in’.

I hope person in the OP's post is happy, ‘cause at the end of the day, that’s all that really matters..

[Jingthing]

I'd be willing to bet, that the same people who find a farang objectionable, for having "gone native" when he emigrated to Thailand. are the most judgemental of those who immigrate to their own home countries and fail to assimilate.

In America, I used to live next to a wonderful Lebanese family. the father loved eerything about America. He flew the flag everyday, his children worked in his shop and got straight A's at school. He did a barbeque evry weekend. to which I had a standing invitation. Through the course of the years I'd guess 20 of his extended family came to stay with him to get an American college education. He loved everyday in his newly adopted country. No one I know laughed behind his back. They couldn't have been happier that someone with such high esteem for their country had chosen to immigrate there and join the citizenry.

I don't think so.

Its not that simple.

They don't really compare.

USA immigration is based on the melting pot ideal. That is why many people are upset that many Latin American migrants are not melting, and so many are illegal.

So Americans do want immigrants to melt. The legal ones are treated the same under the law as natives except for being allowed to be president.

I would never laugh at a gone native farang in Thailand, but I might be concerned about him. How would he deal with it if next year the visa rules change and he has to leave?

I have met people like your Lebanese family. Often, those kind of flag waving immigrants are seen as trying to prove something. They also tend to be even more right wing and reactionary than natives (to me a bad thing). People I know in the US would really rather they kept up their Lebanese cooking as well. I am a US native and have never had a BBQ, but last time I checked my US nationality is still valid.

Edited July 3, 2007 by Jingthing

[bendix]

I'd be willing to bet, that the same people who find a farang objectionable, for having "gone native" when he emigrated to Thailand. are the most judgemental of those who immigrate to their own home countries and fail to assimilate.

In America, I used to live next to a wonderful Lebanese family. the father loved eerything about America. He flew the flag everyday, his children worked in his shop and got straight A's at school. He did a barbeque evry weekend. to which I had a standing invitation. Through the course of the years I'd guess 20 of his extended family came to stay with him to get an American college education. He loved everyday in his newly adopted country. No one I know laughed behind his back. They couldn't have been happier that someone with such high esteem for their country had chosen to immigrate there and join the citizenry.

OK . let's call a spade a spade. An indian, lebanese, thai, chinese or whatever family heading to the US, UK, Australia does so for a number of reasons, but raising one's quality of life economically is high amongst those. Going native in that sense is trying to emulate the comfy middle class affluent lifestyle they see on western tv.

But a westerner doing it the other way? Frankly, they are downgrading their lifestyle.

Perhaps that is why most uneducated Thais - ie a lot of the rural community - who invariably innately assume all farangs are wealthy get so confused by these farang kee noks (in their view). They are trying to get out of their poverty; they see the farangs trying to hard to be like them as aspiring to their poverty.

[lannarebirth]

I'd be willing to bet, that the same people who find a farang objectionable, for having "gone native" when he emigrated to Thailand. are the most judgemental of those who immigrate to their own home countries and fail to assimilate.

In America, I used to live next to a wonderful Lebanese family. the father loved eerything about America. He flew the flag everyday, his children worked in his shop and got straight A's at school. He did a barbeque evry weekend. to which I had a standing invitation. Through the course of the years I'd guess 20 of his extended family came to stay with him to get an American college education. He loved everyday in his newly adopted country. No one I know laughed behind his back. They couldn't have been happier that someone with such high esteem for their country had chosen to immigrate there and join the citizenry.

I don't this so.

Its not that simple.

They don't really compare.

USA immigration is based on the melting pot ideal. That is why many people are upset that many Latin American migrants are not melting, and so many are illegal.

Immigrants aren't "melting" any longer due to air travel. Immigration no longer means you'll never see any of your family again. Also, for better or worse, the "melting pot" ideal was replaced with multiculturalism. and bilingual education. Mexicans have always been illegals. That's the way the government like it, despite their posuring otherwise.

So Americans do want immigrants to melt. The legal ones are treated the same under the law as natives except for being allowed to be president.

I would never laugh at a gone native farang in Thailand, but I might be concerned about him. How would he deal with it if next year the visa rules change and he has to leave?

I don't have the mindset where my bags are half packed to be leaving if something changes. I'm staying and will adapt myself towards that end.

I have met people like your Lebanese family. Often, those kind of flag waving immigrants are seen as trying to prove something. They also tend to be even more right wing and reactionary than natives.

They were apolitical, like me. they were Christian however, like many Lebanese are, but not OTT about it.

People I know in the US would really rather they kept up their Lebanese cooking as well. I am a US native and have never had a BBQ, but last time I checked my US nationality is still valid.

well, if you've never had baba ghanoush with you ribs, or chicken with fattoush, then you haven't lived man.

[Jingthing]

I'm staying and will adapt myself towards that end.

I'll try that line if I ever have a crisis at immigration. Seems to me they always have the final say, whatever our strong wills might say.

Like Bendix says, immigration from poor countries to the west, and being a rich country western expat in a poorer country are not at all equivalent. It is so incredibly obvious, isn't it?

Edited July 3, 2007 by Jingthing

[lannarebirth]

I'd be willing to bet, that the same people who find a farang objectionable, for having "gone native" when he emigrated to Thailand. are the most judgemental of those who immigrate to their own home countries and fail to assimilate.

In America, I used to live next to a wonderful Lebanese family. the father loved eerything about America. He flew the flag everyday, his children worked in his shop and got straight A's at school. He did a barbeque evry weekend. to which I had a standing invitation. Through the course of the years I'd guess 20 of his extended family came to stay with him to get an American college education. He loved everyday in his newly adopted country. No one I know laughed behind his back. They couldn't have been happier that someone with such high esteem for their country had chosen to immigrate there and join the citizenry.

OK . let's call a spade a spade. An indian, lebanese, thai, chinese or whatever family heading to the US, UK, Australia does so for a number of reasons, but raising one's quality of life economically is high amongst those. Going native in that sense is trying to emulate the comfy middle class affluent lifestyle they see on western tv.

But a westerner doing it the other way? Frankly, they are downgrading their lifestyle.

Perhaps that is why most uneducated Thais - ie a lot of the rural community - who invariably innately assume all farangs are wealthy get so confused by these farang kee noks (in their view). They are trying to get out of their poverty; they see the farangs trying to hard to be like them as aspiring to their poverty.

I always run into difficulty when I try to imagine what other people may be thinking. You can ask them outright of course, or can make yourself happy in a non offensive way, and hope that others are happy for you. But in the end, if they're not? Who cares?

[lazeeboy]

I'd be willing to bet, that the same people who find a farang objectionable, for having "gone native" when he emigrated to Thailand. are the most judgemental of those who immigrate to their own home countries and fail to assimilate.

In America, I used to live next to a wonderful Lebanese family. the father loved eerything about America. He flew the flag everyday, his children worked in his shop and got straight A's at school. He did a barbeque evry weekend. to which I had a standing invitation. Through the course of the years I'd guess 20 of his extended family came to stay with him to get an American college education. He loved everyday in his newly adopted country. No one I know laughed behind his back. They couldn't have been happier that someone with such high esteem for their country had chosen to immigrate there and join the citizenry.

OK . let's call a spade a spade. An indian, lebanese, thai, chinese or whatever family heading to the US, UK, Australia does so for a number of reasons, but raising one's quality of life economically is high amongst those. Going native in that sense is trying to emulate the comfy middle class affluent lifestyle they see on western tv.

But a westerner doing it the other way? Frankly, they are downgrading their lifestyle.

Perhaps that is why most uneducated Thais - ie a lot of the rural community - who invariably innately assume all farangs are wealthy get so confused by these farang kee noks (in their view). They are trying to get out of their poverty; they see the farangs trying to hard to be like them as aspiring to their poverty.

I always run into difficulty when I try to imagine what other people may be thinking. You can ask them outright of course, or can make yourself happy in a non offensive way, and hope that others are happy for you. But in the end, if they're not? Who cares?

i say dont do it ,the thais dont respect you when you do ,most get upset when seeing a farang gone native ,and other farangs just think you have been here too long and should go home ,by all means eat ehai ,drink thai ,respect the culture but thats its always keep your roots ........

[soundman]

Perhaps that is why most uneducated Thais - ie a lot of the rural community - who invariably innately assume all farangs are wealthy get so confused by these farang kee noks (in their view).

I have investigated this & kee nok & kee neeoh are thai vernicular pretty much translating to "smelly" in English. Not Bird sh!t or sticky sh!t as literal translation would trans-scribe.

Soundman.

[Gary A]

I live out in the boonies and eat Thai food because I like it. I DON"T drink Lao kao with the natives because I don't like it. I try to be polite and try not to offend anyone. I dress exactly the way I want and that is shorts, a T shirt and sandals. Some of my favorite T shirts are a little ragged. So what? I speak enough Thai to get by but normally tell those who want to try to have a conversation that I don't understand. Mai kow jai. I don't have to be anyone except who I am. I admire people who assimilate into the culture but how I act and what I do is entirely up to me. Up to you too.

[chinthee]

I live out in the boonies and eat Thai food because I like it. I DON"T drink Lao kao with the natives because I don't like it. I try to be polite and try not to offend anyone. I dress exactly the way I want and that is shorts, a T shirt and sandals. Some of my favorite T shirts are a little ragged. So what? I speak enough Thai to get by but normally tell those who want to try to have a conversation that I don't understand. Mai kow jai. I don't have to be anyone except who I am. I admire people who assimilate into the culture but how I act and what I do is entirely up to me. Up to you too.

Bravo, Gary. A sensible man. And I'll bet you don't obsess all day over whether Thai people "accept you" or not.

[garro]

I live in a village, speak Thai, eat Thai food and enjoy Thai TV. I am very happy with my life and couldn't care less a about people laughing behind my back. If you lived in a Thai village you would realise that there is a lot of gossip and laughing behind people's backs. It is just a bit of fun although I try and avoid doing it myself.

I have heard similar stories to the OP and they are always from farang who haven't made any attempt to integrate or learn the language. It is a type of reverse snobery. My favorite story that these guys tell is how their GFs told them not to learn Thai because everyone will laugh at them. If my wife had not wanted me to learn Thai (or the local dialect) then I would have been very suspicious.

[wileycoyote]

I live in a village, speak Thai, eat Thai food and enjoy Thai TV. I am very happy with my life and couldn't care less a about people laughing behind my back.

Garro ,Like Gary A you get my vote

Wiley Coyote

[Neeranam]

I have investigated this & kee nok & kee neeoh are thai vernicular pretty much translating to "smelly" in English.

Where did you find this out?

[Zeid]

is not kee nok poor

and kee niaw stingy?

at least that is what i thought it was

[nidge]

OK . let's call a spade a spade. An indian, lebanese, thai, chinese or whatever family heading to the US, UK, Australia does so for a number of reasons, but raising one's quality of life economically is high amongst those. Going native in that sense is trying to emulate the comfy middle class affluent lifestyle they see on western tv.

But a westerner doing it the other way? Frankly, they are downgrading their lifestyle.

I have lived in thailand for 6 years but i only 'went native' 18 months ago. since then my bank balance has got healthier than i have ever known and my level of happiness increased by an uncalculable amount. Compared to when i worked in the UK earning money that would always be gone at the end of the month and worrying about what i would do if the heating system broke down etc etc, i would say my lifestyle has been massively upgraded.

How we judge our lifestyle is purely on a personal basis and i would not swap mine for anyone elses, ( unless they live exactly like mine but didn't have to work!)

[Neeranam]

OK . let's call a spade a spade. An indian, lebanese, thai, chinese or whatever family heading to the US, UK, Australia does so for a number of reasons, but raising one's quality of life economically is high amongst those. Going native in that sense is trying to emulate the comfy middle class affluent lifestyle they see on western tv.

But a westerner doing it the other way? Frankly, they are downgrading their lifestyle.

I have lived in thailand for 6 years but i only 'went native' 18 months ago. since then my bank balance has got healthier than i have ever known and my level of happiness increased by an uncalculable amount. Compared to when i worked in the UK earning money that would always be gone at the end of the month and worrying about what i would do if the heating system broke down etc etc, i would say my lifestyle has been massively upgraded.

How we judge our lifestyle is purely on a personal basis and i would not swap mine for anyone elses, ( unless they live exactly like mine but didn't have to work!)

Well said!

Some people here think life's all about money an work.

[jamesc2000]

I visited an old friend up country where he lives in a little village with his Wife, her Kids and extended Family the other day, and frankly I was shocked!

He has gone completely Native......Dressing Thai, speaking Thai, eating Thai, waiing all over the place etc.

I asked my GF what the locals think of him. She told me that they laughed behind his back.

Now ain't that sad? There he is integrating himself to death, and they think it's funny.

And this got me thinking. At a time when Thailand is becoming more and more Westernized, what possible reason is there for us Farangs to go the other way?

By all means respect Thai customs, Religion etc, but keep your own for Gawd's sake!

I know, I know most of you do. But there are plenty of peeps who are losing their identity.

And I think it's a shame. Agreed?

Maybe your friend is just a Thai person trapped in a white man's body and is coming out!

And if you believe in re-incarnation like many Buddist, Taoist and Hindus then you are just born into any race and its not really your race.

I like eating sausages, sushi and pasta - I just hope people don't think I am trying to be German, Japanese or Italian!

[qwertz]

I eat haggis and drink scotch sometimes.

Maybe that's why I've started saying "Och the noo" and "See yu jemmy"

Edited July 3, 2007 by qwertz

[jamesc2000]

I visited an old friend up country where he lives in a little village with his Wife, her Kids and extended Family the other day, and frankly I was shocked!

He has gone completely Native......Dressing Thai, speaking Thai, eating Thai, waiing all over the place etc.

I asked my GF what the locals think of him. She told me that they laughed behind his back.

Now ain't that sad? There he is integrating himself to death, and they think it's funny.

And this got me thinking. At a time when Thailand is becoming more and more Westernized, what possible reason is there for us Farangs to go the other way?

By all means respect Thai customs, Religion etc, but keep your own for Gawd's sake!

I know, I know most of you do. But there are plenty of peeps who are losing their identity.

And I think it's a shame. Agreed?

Keep your own customs and religion? That means only the English can eat fish & chips, Italian pasta, Japanese sushi etc

And only the English can be Anglicans, German Protestants, Indians can choose Buddism or Hinduism, Chinese Taoist etc!

And no flip flops for the farangs! They have to wear socks and shoes at the beach! And I have seen some do!

[jamesc2000]

And no beer unless you are a Czech!

[thai_narak]

I visited an old friend up country where he lives in a little village with his Wife, her Kids and extended Family the other day, and frankly I was shocked!

He has gone completely Native......Dressing Thai, speaking Thai, eating Thai, waiing all over the place etc.

I asked my GF what the locals think of him. She told me that they laughed behind his back.

Now ain't that sad? There he is integrating himself to death, and they think it's funny.

And this got me thinking. At a time when Thailand is becoming more and more Westernized, what possible reason is there for us Farangs to go the other way?

By all means respect Thai customs, Religion etc, but keep your own for Gawd's sake!

I know, I know most of you do. But there are plenty of peeps who are losing their identity.

And I think it's a shame. Agreed?

No, sometimes the laugh of Thais are different from the laugh (behind our back) as we know in farangland. I'm sure, the Thais that are laughing are really proud that a farang is trying to integrate in their culture. As if you don't know, Thailaind is a land of smile (laugh too). Your friend is fine. I'm proud of him...

[jamesc2000]

And I think it's a shame. Agreed?

No, sometimes the laugh of Thais are different from the laugh (behind our back) as we know in farangland. I'm sure, the Thais that are laughing are really proud that a farang is trying to integrate in their culture. As if you don't know, Thailaind is a land of smile (laugh too). Your friend is fine. I'm proud of him...

Me too!

[meemiathai]

OK . let's call a spade a spade. An indian, lebanese, thai, chinese or whatever family heading to the US, UK, Australia does so for a number of reasons, but raising one's quality of life economically is high amongst those. Going native in that sense is trying to emulate the comfy middle class affluent lifestyle they see on western tv.

But a westerner doing it the other way? Frankly, they are downgrading their lifestyle.

I have lived in thailand for 6 years but i only 'went native' 18 months ago. since then my bank balance has got healthier than i have ever known and my level of happiness increased by an uncalculable amount. Compared to when i worked in the UK earning money that would always be gone at the end of the month and worrying about what i would do if the heating system broke down etc etc, i would say my lifestyle has been massively upgraded.

How we judge our lifestyle is purely on a personal basis and i would not swap mine for anyone elses, ( unless they live exactly like mine but didn't have to work!)

That was exactly what I was about to post.

One can live in a palace but feel unhappy. For me, the simpler the life is the better.

[meemiathai]

I visited an old friend up country where he lives in a little village with his Wife, her Kids and extended Family the other day, and frankly I was shocked!

He has gone completely Native......Dressing Thai, speaking Thai, eating Thai, waiing all over the place etc.

I asked my GF what the locals think of him. She told me that they laughed behind his back.

Now ain't that sad? There he is integrating himself to death, and they think it's funny.

And this got me thinking. At a time when Thailand is becoming more and more Westernized, what possible reason is there for us Farangs to go the other way?

By all means respect Thai customs, Religion etc, but keep your own for Gawd's sake!

I know, I know most of you do. But there are plenty of peeps who are losing their identity.

And I think it's a shame. Agreed?

Maybe your friend is just a Thai person trapped in a white man's body and is coming out!

And if you believe in re-incarnation like many Buddist, Taoist and Hindus then you are just born into any race and its not really your race.

I like eating sausages, sushi and pasta - I just hope people don't think I am trying to be German, Japanese or Italian!

Nice one.

[qualtrough]

I suspect that many of the farangs on this forum who feel that a farang who assimilates in Thailand has gone native are the same people who whinge about immigrants not trying to assimilate back home. It is telling that the OP had to ask his girlfriend what the locals thought about the farang he mentioned, rather than being able to do so himself.