Time Delay before Switching Power

[carlyai]

Just initially thinking of where to install a time-delay for supply power changeover from mains to genset.

I have my genset setup to start on loss of mains power. 

On loss of mains power the ATS sends an earth to my genset controller that starts the desiel and switches to standby power.

I was having trouble that on desiel start, the main house SafetyCut breaker (supply nearly everything) was tripping. 

I have since earthed the neutral (earth rod) on the genset and now the SafteyCut doesn't trip when the mains fails.

Problem is we have these very quick power flicks and the genset starts then stops and the SafetyCut trips.

So I want to delay the the start earth command sent to the desiel for (say 15 secs), so it will only start on real power fails, not short transition blips.

I talked to the Genset contoller mob, but they said unfortunately there is no delay facility in the controller.

So do I think about making up a circuit that delays the earth being sent to the controller or what would you suggest?

Just initial thoughts at the moment.

Maybe someone knows of a commercially made time-delay for this purpose?

 

[Crossy]

Which genset controller do you have?

 

Omron make some simple timers that can be configured to do what you need.

 

I'll find part numbers when I get home. What's the DC voltage at your controller, 12V?

 

If you could post a sketch diagram of what you have now that would be handy.

 

[carlyai]

32 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Which genset controller do you have?

 

Omron make some simple timers that can be configured to do what you need.

 

I'll find part numbers when I get home. What's the DC voltage at your controller, 12V?

 

If you could post a sketch diagram of what you have now that would be handy.

 

Thanks.

The controller is a AECM103FBSL, 12v.

Circuit setup coming.

Basically 3 phase from the meter to 1 CU outside the house.  Then to a 3 phase SafetyCut and house CU via an ATS.

[farmerjo]

You have an easy life Carl

I have a portable genset,one stick screwdriver in exhaust to free of wasp nests,two run extension cable to priority items,three start and carry on enjoying what you were doing,????

[Crossy]

You need an Omron H3Y timer, 12V, 60 second (or whatever range fits with the delay you want). 

 

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/1pcs-h3y-4-dc-12v-delay-timer-time-relay-switch-0-60-minuteseconds-adjustable-5a-with-base-socket-rotary-knob-dpdt-i4421023836-s17670357090.html?

Other sources may be cheaper, or your local electrical emporium may have something suitable.

 

[bluejets]

ATS's not as simple as first imagined.

Mains re-instate also will require time delay.

Ats's normally require mechanical as well as electrical interlock and in many countries, supply authority inspection and certification.

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, bluejets said:

ATS's not as simple as first imagined.

Mains re-instate also will require time delay.

Ats's normally require mechanical as well as electrical interlock and in many countries, supply authority inspection and certification.

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Carl has got a pukka (or at least Chinese pukka) ATS which has the relevant mechanical interlocks and definite break-before-make architecture rather than a DIY Heath-Robinson beast.

[carlyai]

8 hours ago, farmerjo said:

You have an easy life Carl

I have a portable genset,one stick screwdriver in exhaust to free of wasp nests,two run extension cable to priority items,three start and carry on enjoying what you were doing,????

Keeps you fit all that exercise. ????

I have an aquaponics set up. Need to keep the fish with air and clean water, so when we go away and we have a power failure they don't all die.

Horrible cold windy weather at the moment. 

[carlyai]

3 hours ago, Crossy said:

You need an Omron H3Y timer, 12V, 60 second (or whatever range fits with the delay you want). 

 

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/1pcs-h3y-4-dc-12v-delay-timer-time-relay-switch-0-60-minuteseconds-adjustable-5a-with-base-socket-rotary-knob-dpdt-i4421023836-s17670357090.html?

Other sources may be cheaper, or your local electrical emporium may have something suitable.

 

Thanks very much Crossy. ????

[carlyai]

52 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Carl has got a pukka (or at least Chinese pukka) ATS which has the relevant mechanical interlocks and definite break-before-make architecture rather than a DIY Heath-Robinson beast.

Here's a pic of my ATS. Think it ticks all the boxes.

[carlyai]

2 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Here's a pic of my ATS. Think it ticks all the boxes.

Was a Crossy project, a few million Leo's ago. 

Have a single phase genset supply a 3 phase house.

[Crossy]

32 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Was a Crossy project, a few million Leo's ago. 

Have a single phase genset supply a 3 phase house.

 

Yeah, I thought I had been in the food-chain somewhere ???? 

 

My brain became full some time back, we now have a stack-overflow situation ???? 

[carlyai]

Long time finishing this project, but final check yesterday and all working correctly.

I have a 15 sec start generator command delay after the incoming power fails.

Thanks again @Crossy

[bluejets]

On 11/1/2023 at 12:05 PM, carlyai said:

I have a 15 sec start generator command delay after the incoming power fails.

..............and on power reinstate....????? 

Absolutely necessary as well.

[carlyai]

8 minutes ago, bluejets said:

..............and on power reinstate....????? 

Absolutely necessary as well.

The problem was/is the incoming 3 phases would drop out for about 5 to 10 secs. This was happening randomly. 

So the time delay stopped these random starts.

[bluejets]

14 hours ago, carlyai said:

The problem was/is the incoming 3 phases would drop out for about 5 to 10 secs. This was happening randomly. 

Do not see what that has to do with genset change over.

However, as I mentioned, a time delay is necessary, not only on loss of main supply but also re-instate.

 

"no problem without it you say"...wait for it...it will happen.

 

[carlyai]

9 hours ago, bluejets said:

Do not see what that has to do with genset change over.

However, as I mentioned, a time delay is necessary, not only on loss of main supply but also re-instate.

 

"no problem without it you say"...wait for it...it will happen.

 

Hi, I'm willing to learn, but I don't see the problem. Please show me why I need a time delay on mains reconnection.

[Crossy]

If you have an under/over cut-off with a start delay you don't.

 

The problem is effectively the opposite of your brief mains cuts issue.

 

When the juice comes back it very often goes off again a few seconds later (well ours does), you really don't want your genset stopping before you know the supply is stable.

 

We wait 60 seconds after the juice comes back on before disconnecting and stopping the genset.

 

[carlyai]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

If you have an under/over cut-off with a start delay you don't.

 

The problem is effectively the opposite of your brief mains cuts issue.

 

When the juice comes back it very often goes off again a few seconds later (well ours does), you really don't want your genset stopping before you know the supply is stable.

 

We wait 60 seconds after the juice comes back on before disconnecting and stopping the genset.

 

Hello, yes I understand good practice to let the diesel run on with no load after mains restored. 

I was looking for something else.

OK that clears that up. :)

[Crossy]

4 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Hello, yes I understand good practice to let the diesel run on with no load after mains restored. 

I was looking for something else.

OK that clears that up. 🙂

NO!

It's not the diesel run on we are discussing.

When your power returns, if it almost immediately goes off again (as ours does sometimes) how does your set-up behave??

The "return" delay, keeps everything running on genset until the grid is known stable (ok it's been on for a while anyway).