No Ciggaretts, No Booze, No R Rated Films

[chinthee]

Have you actually lived in Thailand, BKKmadness??

[kmart]

The "Fast Food Nation" book was pretty interesting reading. The US is supposedly sitting on a time-bomb of obesity-related health problems...

I can't say that Thailand will ever follow this "supersize me" trend of uber-consumption, though. Thais seem more conscious of their appearance and shape. The Chinese might be different though?

Btw, According to Schlosser's book, a lot of US schools are funded and subsidised by the fast food giants, and kids are bombarded with blanket advertising all throughout the school day. Some legislation that addresses or arrests this stupid trend might be in order?

Edited July 6, 2007 by kmart

[bkkmadness]

personal responsibility is an alien concept here obviously

Personal responsibilty, you mean a 5 year old kid looking for some sweeties should have a little more?

[bkkmadness]

Have you actually lived in Thailand, BKKmadness??

Probably longer than you, and your point being....?

edit: ah ok, I see ref to nonsense laws. Well stand up and answer the question then, which of the laws in the article we are discussing do you consider nonsense?

Edited July 6, 2007 by bkkmadness

[JR Texas]

The difficulty with the decision making process here is that once again it hits at certain freedoms. In this case, advertising.

Anytime a law is put into place a freedom is taken, can't stop making laws because of that reason we'd have anarchy.

then again an educated population wouldn't need these laws ,

the objective is excellent ,

the methodology saddening .

JR Texas: Agree with the part about an educated public........what ever happened to fathers and mothers teaching children right from wrong? Do they no longer have a role to play in Thai society? Do they no longer have the right to decide right from wrong?

[Mid]

personal responsibility is an alien concept here obviously

Personal responsibilty, you mean a 5 year old kid looking for some sweeties should have a little more?

my apologies , I should have put a warning on that one ......................

children are a parents responsibility until they are no longer children .

trust you didn't hurt yourself falling in .

[chinthee]

Have you actually lived in Thailand, BKKmadness??

Probably longer than you, and your point being....?

Maybe not, but do you actually enjoy being led around by your nose? I find it annoying. I parent my kids very well indeed and look after myself. I don't need the annoyance of picking up some groceries at mid-day, grabbing a bottle of wine for evening dinner, and then being told I can't buy the wine because it's <deleted> 2:01PM.

[bkkmadness]

Mid I have to give up you mate because you're a bit thick. Sorry to be blunt but it has to be said.

Maybe not, but do you actually enjoy being led around by your nose? I find it annoying. I parent my kids very well indeed and look after myself. I don't need the annoyance of picking up some groceries at mid-day, grabbing a bottle of wine for evening dinner, and then being told I can't buy the wine because it's <deleted> 2:01PM.

Chinthee, you are arguing against this law going through because you didn't like the last one? Are you being serious?

I think the alchohol law is stupid as well, but this one I agree with.

Two laws, two opinions.

Chinthee I have no doubt you parent your kids well. If tobacco companies started advertising in their schools would you be fine with that knowing that that advertising could directly lead to your children smoking, getting cancer etc. despite your efforts to educate them otherwise? Don't you think as a parent you should take responsibility to prevent that kind of advertising?

Edited July 6, 2007 by bkkmadness

[chinthee]

Mid I have to give up you mate because you're a bit thick. Sorry to be blunt but it has to be said.

Maybe not, but do you actually enjoy being led around by your nose? I find it annoying. I parent my kids very well indeed and look after myself. I don't need the annoyance of picking up some groceries at mid-day, grabbing a bottle of wine for evening dinner, and then being told I can't buy the wine because it's <deleted> 2:01PM.

Chinthee, you are arguing against this law going through because you didn't like the last one? Are you being serious?

I think the alchohol law is stupid as well, but this one I agree with.

Two laws, two opinions.

It's just an overall trend of childish ill-thought out laws. I was ranting, but yes, I also agree with this particular law, but not with the trend I've seen over the past few years of legislating behaviour.

[Mid]

Mid I have to give up you mate because you're a bit thick. Sorry to be blunt but it has to be said.

as Confucius said

when a man starts throwing mud ,

it's a sure sign he's loosing ground .

have a nice day .

[bkkmadness]

Loads of pathetic laws this govt is coming out with, agree 100%. This law looks like a good one though. Let's not tar all their new laws with the same rush.

[chuchok]

It doesn't matter how much a parent extols the virtues of good food etc,kids will be kids.First opportunity they get,they will be into the candy and rubbish at breakneck speed.....

[duke69]

quite disturbing the US MNC use Asia like a silly playground where they can do whatever is forbidden in EU and USA in terms of advertising......

To play with other's people health only for pofit is starting to become a problem, also Malaysia is enforcing some kind of protection against BS (where the "B" stands for "Bull").

I plaude this law.....and let's hope that thai people won't be a generation of obese like the americans, kids have to be protected.......then if an already 150 kgs farang wants to add some more burgers to his diet....this is not forbidden at all

[qwertz]

Laws are made to be skirted and broken.

That's why they're enforced.

We see the reults every day in our respective homelands.

I don't have a firm opinion about this particular subject but I can use human behaviour as a benchmark.

Make a thing illegal and people will still want it and a black market will flourish.

If you want to target a specific group with your message you have to make converts within it.

Good parenting is a nice and necessary concept.

But your child, once outside of parental control, will learn, accept and emulate the behaviour of its peers much more readily.

I think this latest move, although well intended, will have little impact on the consumers or the producers.

I see huge sums being spent on enforcing controls which can and will be easily got around.

[bkkmadness]

Make a thing illegal and people will still want it and a black market will flourish.

In junk food and junk food advertisments?

Will people be downloading illegal copies of smarties adverts before they pop down the road to score a few cola cubes?

[qwertz]

If you're old enough to remember rationing you'll know what I mean.

A case in point: while not illegal, smoking in England and Germany is very actively discouraged through negative advertising, government information campaigns and high taxation on tobacco.

Retail sales are dropping, the governments are still not happy and people are smoking more.

Do I need to ask where the extra supply is coming from?

[bkkmadness]

If you're old enough to remember rationing you'll know what I mean.

A case in point: while not illegal, smoking in England and Germany is very actively discouraged through negative advertising, government information campaigns and high taxation on tobacco.

Retail sales are dropping, the governments are still not happy and people are smoking more.

Do I need to ask where the extra supply is coming from?

Not wanting to doubt you Qwertz but I was under the impression that the amount of people starting smoking (in the UK certainly) has gone down in the past 20 years due in part to reducing the advertising. If you have a link to more info I'd like to see it.

Also, adults getting ciggys (a drug) and kids getting sweets is a different thing. On top of that they are talking about reducing TV advertising, adding health warnings to junk foods etc., it's quite easy to enforce and quite difficult to get around.

[soundman]

I started this thread more to point out that laws are being raced through parliament based on knee jerk reactions & small but vocal pressure groups, without being properly studied, thought through on the far reaching effects of their implementation, or having an elected government (ie. the voice of the people) approving them.

There really is a feeling coming accross from those in power that "we (not you) will decide is right for the country & you (not us) will do as your told." Very bad for the country.

As with this particular example, I am actually in favour of having the children eat better food. However, I think education & parental controls are a better starting place rather than blanket bans on anything "we" consider is unhealthy. (read food produced by companies that don't support the current regime will be banned)

Soundman.

[chinthee]

Congrats. Good thread soundman

[TAWP]

personal responsibility is an alien concept here obviously

Personal responsibilty, you mean a 5 year old kid looking for some sweeties should have a little more?

When I was 5 I didn't have money in my pocket to stack up on candy.

How can anyone agree to have their freedom removed under the cloak of 'protect the children' over and over again?

You may think it's for the benefit of the children, much like the socialist goverment practically enforced censorship of the internet in Sweden via 'talks' to the ISPs to only months later hint that they wanted to expand this ban to areas not regarding children at all - but I would be vary in celebrating anything the military regime does just yet.

They are supposed to draw up the roadmap for democracy, not legislate about moral or other topics they wanna poke their noses in. Especially since 'any law that goes into the book never comes out' seems to be the norm here...

[kankaroo]

Hmm, I suppose it depends on how they go about it. I have always thought that Thai kids are getting fatter & many Thai people tell me that the introduction of western fast(junk) food joints have added to this problem greatly.

It is better for the kid for when the reach adolescence so it means they can get a girl/boy friend and have some self esteem, which is very important for their development and so on.

[qwertz]

If you're old enough to remember rationing you'll know what I mean.

A case in point: while not illegal, smoking in England and Germany is very actively discouraged through negative advertising, government information campaigns and high taxation on tobacco.

Retail sales are dropping, the governments are still not happy and people are smoking more.

Do I need to ask where the extra supply is coming from?

Not wanting to doubt you Qwertz but I was under the impression that the amount of people starting smoking (in the UK certainly) has gone down in the past 20 years due in part to reducing the advertising. If you have a link to more info I'd like to see it.

Also, adults getting ciggys (a drug) and kids getting sweets is a different thing. On top of that they are talking about reducing TV advertising, adding health warnings to junk foods etc., it's quite easy to enforce and quite difficult to get around.

BKK, I haven't troubled to look for links; I'm sure there are some but I'm talking from on the spot observation and random news reports on falling retail sales which indicate that the black market in cigarettes is flourishing.

There's a tobacco mafia here run by very violent people and shootings are not uncommon.

My daughter is a customs officer in England and confirms that cig. smuggling is a growth industry there.

You're right in saying the consumption is dropping in some age groups; certainly older people are being discouraged by the high taxes, absence of peer pressure and lack of access to the black market but smoking is steadily increasing among younger age groups.

Those groups are hard to target with common sense.

[bkkmadness]

How can anyone agree to have their freedom removed under the cloak of 'protect the children' over and over again?

You may think it's for the benefit of the children, much like the socialist goverment practically enforced censorship of the internet in Sweden via 'talks' to the ISPs to only months later hint that they wanted to expand this ban to areas not regarding children at all - but I would be vary in celebrating anything the military regime does just yet.

They're talking about banning junk food adverts and labeling junk foods so people are more aware about what they are feeding their kids. When the law stretches to banning rice I will stand alongside you 100% but let's get realistic here chaps.

I do agree though that an unelected govt shouldn't be concerned with problems like this when there are far greater issues at hand.

[Jim's_a_Thai_Fox]

Yep,

totally agree with the 'soundman' on this one.

We all agree that current eating trends are 'worrying'. But the way they're going about tackling it is even more so - there's no oversight committees or checks/balances at the moment in the current government.

[bkkmadness]

BKK, I haven't troubled to look for links; I'm sure there are some but I'm talking from on the spot observation and random news reports on falling retail sales which indicate that the black market in cigarettes is flourishing.

It's always flourishing, but has the amount of smokers increased? That's the question.

My daughter is a customs officer in England and confirms that cig. smuggling is a growth industry there.

If you have a stable amount of smokers for 10 years smuggling of tobacco will still be a growth industry as legal tobacco gets more expensive. That's simple economics, one brand (legal) gets more expensive, the other brand (illegal) remains cheaper, sells more and demand is greater. That doesn't mean that more people are smoking though, they are just choosing an alternative supplier.

Also, a massive amount of tobacco was smuggled through the channel tunnel but I believe that has been reduced now because of other factors (not sure the reasons), so if your daughter works the airports she'll definitely see more tobacco coming through as it's a more common route now.

but smoking is steadily increasing among younger age groups.

I still find this hard to believe when it comes to the UK.

Edited July 6, 2007 by bkkmadness

[bkkmadness]

Yep,

totally agree with the 'soundman' on this one.

We all agree that current eating trends are 'worrying'. But the way they're going about tackling it is even more so - there's no oversight committees or checks/balances at the moment in the current government.

There was none in the last government was there? The boys at the top decided what to do and that's the be all and end all of the situation. And you can bet the next govt will not be much better.

[qwertz]

BKK, paradoxical perhaps but it's on the increase especially among the poorer classes.

Probably because the cig. Mafia targets them.

I don't for a minute envisage a Mars bar Mafia in LOS but the young people are a very lucrative target group, e.g. McDonald's advertising.

I think it's a great idea to sway kids back to a Thai diet; the benefits are clear to see if you look at the average Thai kid with good teeth, clear skin and strong, straight legs.

But for many people, getting off junk food is as hard as stopping smoking is for others.

The difference is, you don't have to smoke to live but you do have to eat.

So the difficulty will be getting kids off something they like and offering them a replacement which is not as appealing.

I suspect if the kids buck enough, Thai parents will give in and let them have their junk just so they have a quiet life.

[A_Traveller]

I suspect if the kids buck enough, Thai parents will give in and let them have their junk just so they have a quiet life.

Which leads us back to the real issue, parental responsibility and an understanding of what it means to be a citizen as a whole not just in the abstract.

Regards

PS On the smoking in the UK point the site ASH provides good data, but it's all in pdf form which makes it difficult to cut & paste to here. Recommend it for anyone wanting to loo at the actuality.

/edit typo//

Edited July 6, 2007 by A_Traveller

[vermin on arrival]

I started this thread more to point out that laws are being raced through parliament based on knee jerk reactions & small but vocal pressure groups, without being properly studied, thought through on the far reaching effects of their implementation, or having an elected government (ie. the voice of the people) approving them.

There really is a feeling coming accross from those in power that "we (not you) will decide is right for the country & you (not us) will do as your told." Very bad for the country.

As with this particular example, I am actually in favour of having the children eat better food. However, I think education & parental controls are a better starting place rather than blanket bans on anything "we" consider is unhealthy. (read food produced by companies that don't support the current regime will be banned)

Soundman.

Agreed. Good post Soundman.

We did also have this with the previous government, but I think it is more pronounced now. It really seems like the elements of Thai society that want to regulate personal behavior are coming out of the woodwork.

[bkkmadness]

BKK, paradoxical perhaps but it's on the increase especially among the poorer classes.

Probably because the cig. Mafia targets them.

It seems to be quite different in Germany as there is no cigarette mafia in the UK that targets people. It's more a case of some guy down the road having a load of cheap ciggys for sale.

and this regarding thais and junk food.....

I suspect if the kids buck enough, Thai parents will give in and let them have their junk just so they have a quiet life.

Yep thats true, but be kind of nice if schools started selling more fruits than sweets wouldn't it? Be great if a bit more money was put into healthy eating campaigns, and if you want some extra money for it tax the junk food advertisers heavier.

I remember when I was at at school, canteen full of unhealthy foods, soda and sweet machines everywhere. I even remember when McDonalds first came to town when I was about 8-9 years old and they took us out of school for a few hours to visit McDonalds! Talk about targeting the local market, taking kids out of schools to introduce them to a junk food company, shocking really.