What Recourse Do We Have?

[Dustoff]

I brought this problem up in another thread about recommendations for eyeglasses but this is about what we can do if we have been had.

Top Cheroen (Central Plaza) tested my eyes, made glasses for me and they are, in a word, crap and I simply cannot wear them. I remarked that they were visually uncomfortable right away but they insisted that it takes time to get used to new lenses and if they were still a problem a month or two down the road, bring them back.

I did - bring them back, that is and they basically told me that they would make me a new set and only charge me 90% of the original price. Since it seemed ridiculous to pay almost the same amount again to the same people who couldn't get it right the firest time, I asked for a refund. No deal and they were reluctant to talk to me or my wife any more. I went to Top Cheroen's website and sent them an email about my problem and they didn't even bother to respond.

Short of telling me that if I had put it on my debit card I could simply cancel the payment, does anyone know if there are protection agencies here who deal with such things?

[tigerbeer]

I brought this problem up in another thread about recommendations for eyeglasses but this is about what we can do if we have been had.

Top Cheroen (Central Plaza) tested my eyes, made glasses for me and they are, in a word, crap and I simply cannot wear them. I remarked that they were visually uncomfortable right away but they insisted that it takes time to get used to new lenses and if they were still a problem a month or two down the road, bring them back.

I did - bring them back, that is and they basically told me that they would make me a new set and only charge me 90% of the original price. Since it seemed ridiculous to pay almost the same amount again to the same people who couldn't get it right the firest time, I asked for a refund. No deal and they were reluctant to talk to me or my wife any more. I went to Top Cheroen's website and sent them an email about my problem and they didn't even bother to respond.

Short of telling me that if I had put it on my debit card I could simply cancel the payment, does anyone know if there are protection agencies here who deal with such things?

the same way they advertise 799 or 999 for frame and lens. and 90% of the time, the lens are not included in the promotion. they say my "power" too much for the free lenses.

i stay away from top chareon, and most others. still looking for a decent place to make glasses.

sorry about what you went through. and wish u luck in getting a refund.

[Bill97]

I remarked that they were visually uncomfortable right away but they insisted that it takes time to get used to new lenses and if they were still a problem a month or two down the road, bring them back.

They did the prescription wrong or cut the lenses wrong or both. Next time get, in your pocket two prescriptions, from two different places and only get lenses if both prescriptions are the same.

Then if the glasses are uncomfrotable, have them check the lenses against the prescription. If they are not the same, they should correct it for you because any shop could check this and prove that they did not cut the lenses properly. An exception is polycarbonate lenses which just do not work for some people. In CM they often cut lenses incorrectly.

That it takes a month or two for your eyes to adjust to lenses is BS.

Next time, do not pay if they are visually uncomfortable. Not much you can do now. Lenses are not to expensive here so get a new pair cut. The shop down the street from the Irish Pub seems to be good for many people.

[siam-i-am]

I brought this problem up in another thread about recommendations for eyeglasses but this is about what we can do if we have been had.

Top Cheroen (Central Plaza) tested my eyes, made glasses for me and they are, in a word, crap and I simply cannot wear them. I remarked that they were visually uncomfortable right away but they insisted that it takes time to get used to new lenses and if they were still a problem a month or two down the road, bring them back.

I did - bring them back, that is and they basically told me that they would make me a new set and only charge me 90% of the original price. Since it seemed ridiculous to pay almost the same amount again to the same people who couldn't get it right the firest time, I asked for a refund. No deal and they were reluctant to talk to me or my wife any more. I went to Top Cheroen's website and sent them an email about my problem and they didn't even bother to respond.

Short of telling me that if I had put it on my debit card I could simply cancel the payment, does anyone know if there are protection agencies here who deal with such things?

Sorry to hear of you problem Dustoff I shall avoid them, reminds me of an optian in UK I complained I couldn't see far in my new glasses, he took me outside pointed to the sky and asked whats that? I squinted it's the sun he replied how far do you want to see

[Lucifer]

I know lots of peeps who have bought from these people...

http://goggles4u.com/

Come from Pakistan, but very good quality, and price.

[Rice_King]

Unless there is a Thai version of a "consumer union" here that I am unaware of, I think posting on here about a business, either negatively or positively, is your best recourse. I know that, based on your experiences with them, I will never give Top Cheroen my business nor recommend them. Top Cheroen potentially could lose a sale to every eyeglass wearer in Thailand that reads this post in the future. (The internet never forgets and notice that I use the company name numerous times to assist the search engines.)

On the other hand, had they treated you fairly, and had you given them a positive review, Top Cheroen would have recouped the price of your free replacement lenses in short order.

I think they call that "karma."

Edited July 9, 2007 by Rice_King

[Donnyboy]

sorry to hear about your situation,

I am amazed how often I see the no refund sign around retailers in LOS. Also when I have used my credit card no refund is printed on the receipt, thus signing away any refund rights.

[Ulysses G.]

On the other hand:

This morning, a French guy brought in a French book which someone had bought for 200 baht about one month ago that he wanted to sell back. We promise 50% if the book is in the same condition within one month, but usually will honor this for at least 3-6 months if the book has not lost value.

The book he brought in was still in good fairly good shape except for a large rip on the spine on the bottom where you could see all the pages starting to pull apart. The only way to fix it was to glue the pages together and put a bunch of scotch tape over that to hold the book together. I told him that I would give him 80 baht instead of 100, because it looked like sh*t with the tape and I would have to lower the price.

He insisted that I give him 120 and kept repeating that it wasn't his fault that the book was ripped.

I told him that he could keep the book if he wasn't satisfied with the price and he did, but kept returning when no other stores would buy the it with the rip.

To make a long story short, no matter how logical it was to me that he had broken the book and should pay for it, he insisted that I was cheating him and he kept repeating it like a mantra. I ended up paying him 80 baht and he left, completely disgusted.

[PeaceBlondie]

I had given up trying to get a refund in Thailand. Last month we went to Sizzler in Central Kad Kaew, and didn't even have our prior membership card which had expired. A new one was at least 200 baht, and wouldn't even count toward today's purchase. The prices had escalated once again. The new price did not include baked potato. The new discount was only 10% for cash purchaes; in prior years it was 50% off when two people ate together. The more I thought about it. the madder I got. So I called for the manager, explained nicely, and requested a refund. He gave it to me! I cannot recommend the new discount card, but have to give Sizzler credit for giving a refund to a nice acting farang.

One refund in four years....maybe that's the average.

[Ulysses G.]

Sorry, but I didn't understand what you wanted a "refund" for? For your meal yesterday?

[Johpa]

On the other hand:

:D ......

To make a long story short, no matter how logical it was to me that he had broken the book and should pay for it, he insisted that I was cheating him and he kept repeating it like a mantra. I ended up paying him 80 baht and he left, completely disgusted.

and as a fellow retailer with decades of experience, my mantra is " the masses are asses."

[Ulysses G.]

I'll certainly remember that one!

[miltonbentley]

Do Top Charoen have an ISO number? There is a good chance as they are a big company.

If they do this could be the way to go. There was a post on another thread (I think in the general forum) on how to get ISO status reviewed. This could be a useful bargaining tool in your attempt to get a refund.

[madcatlady]

Top Cheroen potentially could lose a sale to every eyeglass wearer in Thailand that reads this post in the future. (The internet never forgets and notice that I use the company name numerous times to assist the search engines.)

Would be a good idea to check the spelling of Top Charoen first!!!

MCL

[Dustoff]

Unless there is a Thai version of a "consumer union" here that I am unaware of, I think posting on here about a business, either negatively or positively, is your best recourse. I know that, based on your experiences with them, I will never give Top Cheroen my business nor recommend them. Top Cheroen potentially could lose a sale to every eyeglass wearer in Thailand that reads this post in the future. (The internet never forgets and notice that I use the company name numerous times to assist the search engines.)

On the other hand, had they treated you fairly, and had you given them a positive review, Top Cheroen would have recouped the price of your free replacement lenses in short order.

I think they call that "karma."

An excellent response, King of RiceRocket.

Threads do however have a way of swinging away from the original intent, don't they? We seem to have gone from a discussion concerning unsatisfactory service from a medical professional to torn used books and discount cards at Sizzler..

Oh well, since we are there anyway, the wife and I cannot stand Sizzler at Central but frequent the one at Airport Plaza. If you don't think there is a difference, try each one's salad bars - one barely edible, the other one of the best salad bars in CM in terms of choices and freshness...

And I think they do eye exams/lenses there as well...

I know, I know this is about refunds and recourse when we have been had (my first time in Thailand )..

[Rice_King]

Top Cheroen potentially could lose a sale to every eyeglass wearer in Thailand that reads this post in the future. (The internet never forgets and notice that I use the company name numerous times to assist the search engines.)

Would be a good idea to check the spelling of Top Charoen first!!!

MCL

DANG! That's what I get for depending on Dustoff's post for the correct spelling! Maybe someone can get a mod to correct it?

Edited July 10, 2007 by Rice_King

[ProThaiExpat]

Top Charoen has more than 1700 locations around Thailand so they must be doing something right.

I use the one in Huay Kaew Shopping Center and they have made glasses for me and my friends for years without a problem.

Their price for replacement lenses runs between 400 and 1200 Baht. If this is the amount in question, I truly wonder if a Consumer Protection Agency, even if one was set up, would be worth the hassle to involve for this amount of money.

OP, in my view, would be unreasonable if he demanded a refund of his money when most of the amount he payed was for the frames, certainly used by the time he was ready to return them and certainly the frames were not what made his vision distorted.

[Benlucky]

Bought a HDD player last week at computer plaza, was told 6 month warranty! Went back today because remote will

not work,sales woman said not her problem, product made in China, so thats 4000 baht for what??

[Dustoff]

Top Charoen has more than 1700 locations around Thailand so they must be doing something right.

I use the one in Huay Kaew Shopping Center and they have made glasses for me and my friends for years without a problem.

Their price for replacement lenses runs between 400 and 1200 Baht. If this is the amount in question, I truly wonder if a Consumer Protection Agency, even if one was set up, would be worth the hassle to involve for this amount of money.

OP, in my view, would be unreasonable if he demanded a refund of his money when most of the amount he payed was for the frames, certainly used by the time he was ready to return them and certainly the frames were not what made his vision distorted.

You seem to have depended upon your own assumptions PTE, which I can understand since I didn't go into great detail for the sake of brevity. This is, after all, about what recourse we have available as farangs/residents of Thailand rather than my own personal expenditures.

The total charge was B6800 - B1800 for the frames (buy one, get one free) and +/- B5000 for the lenses.

When I asked them to replace my defective lenses, they offered to replace them for +/- B4500 (5000 minus what they saw as a generous discount of 10%).

And it is not like I wear Coke-bottle lenses since I can/do still pass FAA medical flight exams without glasses.

I did not, nor would I, ask them to replace/refund the frames since I like them and they are not "what made my vision distorted".

While I have no question that Top Charoen has successfully supplied quality lenses for many, many people over the years, it is my view that such a large medical corporatation should have some kind of guarantee in place for the occasional mistake which is bound to happen even in the best of companies, and because I think that commercial medical professionals should take full responsibility for, and correct, their mistakes.

I am not stupid (admittedly in my own opinion) nor short of money and if it were about "400 to 1200 Baht" I would certainly find it easier to simply go somewhere else and purchase new/acceptable lenses (which I have, as stated above, already done).

But then there is the principle of the responsibilites of medical professionals to do it right or be willing to make it right if they screw up. Otherwise they find it easier to 'do it' to other patients.

And I am a patient, not merely a customer.

For you "vowel-owls" who noticed my e-for-an-a mistake, gimme a break, willya?

As I have stated on these forums before, I ain't so purty good at speling...

[Bill97]

Your opinion of the seller's responsibilities just does not seem to fit with what happens often in Thailand. What you see is what you get. Buyers have most of the responsibilities. There is no recourse unless you are very lucky. Time to move on.

[ProThaiExpat]

I agree with the last post regarding remedies in Thailand although many stores do try to satisfy their customers.

Dustoff: Those must be some lenses you got. Did you order all the extras to get the price so high. You said "not coke bottles" but unless they are brand name "transition" lenses, you were taken, in my view.

What location are you talking about? Was it near a tourist area? The price of your lenses seems way too high and the price of your frames unbelievably low unless you quoted one half the price you paid because you got two for the price of one? Still I have had trouble getting frames , and I am not talking about designer names, for less than 3000 Baht.

I must say that most Thais are not trained by their employers on how to deal with complaints. My Top Charoen location grinds their own lenses but send them out for all the extra coatings that you can order. They can get quite pricey and probably involve much profit.

I know one Thai who always calls Bangkok and talks to headquarters of any store that he want redress from. You might try getting a Thai friend to call Top Charoen headquarters and talk to a high level management type about your issue. Be sure and get the name of the individual you have contact with. Maybe the result will not be the different, but it should be worth the price of a telephone call on the chance you will get proper treatment.

[mcgriffith]

Yo Dustoff,

I went to the place you recommended to me, Tokyo Optical, at Airport Central for an eye exam.

Paid for an exam, bought only frames and mounted my last year's lenses (progressives from Costco in US with all the bells and whistles) as my script had barely changed. As you mentioned, it is a top notch facility, with huge selection. Had they mis-cut your new lenses, PERHAPS they would have been more ammenable than Top Charoen in refunding; they seem very customer service oriented (though admittedly quite pricey).

On a side note, I have had this problem with new progressives before. NO, not a mis-cut lens prescription. A wrong CENTER OF PUPIL. If your optometrist does not exactly measure the center of pupil, the lenses don't work. Had this happen 2X in US, both times they cut me new lenses for no charge.

I know this doesn't help in your case; just offering a little background info for fellow eyeglass wearers....

McG

[PeaceBlondie]

Sorry, but I didn't understand what you wanted a "refund" for? For your meal yesterday?

My refund was not for the meal I ate, but for the annual discount membership I had just bought. Sorry I wasn't clear, and didn't reply quickly. However much the membership cost - at least 199 baht - I didn't use it and still had my ten minute old receipt, and they reversed the transaction.

[davidgtr]

5,000 baht for lenses sounds like graduated lenses to me. I too tried these once & gave up after a week. If you've never had these before, then I understand it should take weeks, if not a month or two, to get fully used to them. Could this be the problem / rip off?

[Dustoff]

~

Am I missing something? What happened to the post from dyinganimal about the Attorney General Office of Chiang Mai Province giving a presentation on 21 July on "Project on Mobilizing Volunteer Attorney to Protect Rights of International People"?

Or was this a total hoax? Anybody godda clue?

[realthaideal]

"Would be a good idea to check the spelling of Top Charoen first!!!"

"DANG! That's what I get for depending on Dustoff's post for the correct spelling! "

Never mind that in Thai the Ch is pronounced "J" just as the Chao Prayah in BKK is the Jao Prayah and so when you ask for the f#@^'d up spelling version of it, the Thais can't point you in the right direction. There is no Chao Prayah, and there is no Top Charoen. In fact no Charoenmuang street either. Things are disappearing as we speak.