Shake Down

[farang prince]

A good friend of mine, who is a Chinese citizen, flew in from Kuala Lumpur with some friends to do a weekend of shopping in Bangkok. Here is what Tony says occurred:

"I brought 5k Thai baht and 500 Malaysian Ringgit with me. Then when I got to Bkk, I paid 1000 bt for visa on arrival and 200 baht for a photo. Then the Immigration people said that wasn't enough. They asked me to show them I had 10k baht. But I had already spent 1200 baht for the visa and the photo. So I only had 8800 baht. They said that was not enough. So I asked where ATM is. They said 'Outside Immigration.' So I cannot use. I have 4400rm in my bank. So I paid another 1000 baht black money and then they give me a visa. I only came for four days. These people are thieves. I never come back."

His other three friends were not victimized by a shakedown. In all the years I've been in and out of LOS, I've never experienced anything like this. Is this SOP for Thai Immigration when dealing with Chinese citizens? Or was this special treatment?

[tropo]

You're certainly in a tough spot if this happens. What can one do?

This smacks of arrogance brought about from having too many tourists coming here for too long.

[monty]

It's actually a standard requirement for ANY visitor of Thailand to have funds of at least 10,000 Baht with them (or 20,000 for families).

In a way they have a point that this 10,000 Baht has to be AFTER paying for visa etc. Most other nationals will have paid for this visa already in their home country, or like most Western nationalities don't need a visa at all for stays of less then 30 days...

So we could argue that they gave undue attention to him (although staying within the law), or that they were actually lenient in letting him enter into Thailand after a "gift" when they indeed could have refused him entry based on the Thai Immigration law.

[siam2007]

dont give those greedy officers excuses !!! In that case, all the officer wanted is some "extra" to enrich his day.....

it should be reported to the anti-corruption-committee !

[lopburi3]

He did not meet the openly published requirements for issue of a visa on arrival and bribed the Immigration officials.

VISA ON ARRIVAL

- According to the Interior Ministerial Announcements, passport holders from 20 countries may apply for visas at the immigration checkpoints for the purpose of tourism for the period of not exceeding 15 days.

- The applicant must possess means of living expenses at the amount of 10,000 Baht per person and 20,000 Baht per family accordingly.

- The applicant must present full paid ticket which is usable within 15 days since the date of entry

- Visa on arrival is provided at 32 designated international checkpoints and applicants should submit the application form duly filled out and to which his/her recent photograph (4 x 6 cm) is attached. The application fee is 1,000 Baht.

[farang prince]

He did not meet the openly published requirements for issue of a visa on arrival and bribed the Immigration officials.

VISA ON ARRIVAL

- According to the Interior Ministerial Announcements, passport holders from 20 countries may apply for visas at the immigration checkpoints for the purpose of tourism for the period of not exceeding 15 days.

- The applicant must possess means of living expenses at the amount of 10,000 Baht per person and 20,000 Baht per family accordingly.

- The applicant must present full paid ticket which is usable within 15 days since the date of entry

- Visa on arrival is provided at 32 designated international checkpoints and applicants should submit the application form duly filled out and to which his/her recent photograph (4 x 6 cm) is attached. The application fee is 1,000 Baht.

Thank you for your clarification, Lopburi. I'll pass on to my friend that he is lucky he is not in prison today. The point was he had no way of proving that he had the funds in his bank account because the ATM machine was on the OTHER SIDE of Immigration.

Edited July 10, 2007 by farang prince

[lopburi3]

The point is that he arrived without the required proof of funds. There is no "thou art entitled to use an ATM" that I can find. Unfortunate yes, but he did not meet the requirements for entry.

[monty]

The burden of proof of these funds is on the visitor. It's not the job of immigration to prove that you don't have the funds.

Generally cash or traveler cheques is required, although a Thai bankbook along with statement of the bank confirming the size of the deposits might do!

[farang prince]

Thanks for your responses guys. I'll pass them on to my friend. He will be a little wiser next time. But isn't it strange, that I've never been asked for proof of funds when I've passed through Thai Immigration these 20-someodd times? Am I lucky or do I just look rich?

[lopburi3]

It is a selective check and suspect much more common for visa on arrival than others. Also as far as I know Ringgit is still (officially) a non convertible currency outside of Malaysia so not sure it would have been accepted either.

[Digitalbanana]

The point is that he arrived without the required proof of funds. There is no "thou art entitled to use an ATM" that I can find. Unfortunate yes, but he did not meet the requirements for entry.

Unfortunately, if it is true about ATM's being beyond immigration, this seems like <deleted> to me, to put it in layman's terms! Sounds to me like the guy was robbed, why not let him have access to an ATM to prove his wealth because on his race!? Many other airports (inlcuding many in China) have ATM's both sides of immigration. Is one expected to know ATM locations as well as all the immigration rules for weekend shopping holidays around the globe?

[lopburi3]

You are expected to arrive meeting the requirements for entry (and in this case visa issue). He did not.

[Krub]

He did not meet the requirements but the dishonnest immigration official lets him through for personnal greed........

Welcome to Thailand indeed

[Sunny Valentine]

He did not meet the openly published requirements for issue of a visa on arrival and bribed the Immigration officials.

VISA ON ARRIVAL

- According to the Interior Ministerial Announcements, passport holders from 20 countries may apply for visas at the immigration checkpoints for the purpose of tourism for the period of not exceeding 15 days.

- The applicant must possess means of living expenses at the amount of 10,000 Baht per person and 20,000 Baht per family accordingly.

- The applicant must present full paid ticket which is usable within 15 days since the date of entry

- Visa on arrival is provided at 32 designated international checkpoints and applicants should submit the application form duly filled out and to which his/her recent photograph (4 x 6 cm) is attached. The application fee is 1,000 Baht.

This is among the most arrogant, and in some way, offensive comments I have read from a Thaivisa.com Moderator so far!

First, there is no written statement anywhere that the Visa On Arrival Fee needs to be on top of the mentioned 10000 Bt requirement.

Second, this gentleman was obviously cheated by the stealing official, and that seems to be ok for you?

Third, I have yet to find a comprehensive list of what does qualify as funds in the case. Thai Baht for sure (not easy to obtain abroad, and if can be obtained, usually at a ridiculous rate. No mention on which foreign currencies (if at all) are accepted, and at which rate the calculation will be done.

It is a selective check and suspect much more common for visa on arrival than others. Also as far as I know Ringgit is still (officially) a non convertible currency outside of Malaysia so not sure it would have been accepted either.

You are wrong here, too. The ringgit has been pegged to the US Dollar until 2005, and is freely convertible since then.

Lopburi, by accepting theft (by the authorities here, as reported in this case) you encourage the widespread corruption and rule bending so endemic here.

Sunny

[lopburi3]

There was no theft - he bribed an official if the story is as told.

Before you call anyone wrong you had best check - I clearly stated I was not sure about the ringgit. That last time I used that currency it was not convertible.

He did not meet the requirements for entry and do not consider myself as being arrogant in so stating a fact. Nor did I condone the action of the officer (but I suspect the poster was most happy to have received entry).

[lopburi3]

As of 5 July 2007 CNBC is reporting

And after seven years the ringgit’s peg to the dollar was lifted in July 2005 and replaced by a managed-float regime. The ringgit rose to a post-crisis peak of 3.38 against the dollar this year. However, the ringgit still cannot be traded globally.

[torrenova]

When I was an investment banker we had regular if low volume business in MYR, largely in the FX and interest rate swaps area.

I think this stinks as well. I've been through Bangkok airport countless times, often with very little THB, sometimes without other currencies but with loads of plastic. Then again, the worst I was coming in with was a UK passport and thus no need for a visa, often on a business visa.

That said, if I remember the OP said 4 days. What sort of time "shopping" could be had if someone came here for 4 days with Bt10,000 ?

What would have happened if his ATM card was not acceptable ?

From a likely mickey mouse bank in Malaysia with MYR I think he could have been a little more prepared.

[monty]

I recall that only recently Bkk Bank made a deal with MEPS (Malaysian Electronic Payment Services) so the Malaysian atm cards could be used in Bkk bank ATM's (but not on atm's of other banks!).

Normally Malaysian ATM cards do not work in Thailand, they are on their own unique "bankcard" network managed by MEPS. Quite a lot of foreign cards can be used in Malaysia though, on ATM's having the Visa logo!

[tropo]

As of 5 July 2007 CNBC is reporting

And after seven years the ringgit’s peg to the dollar was lifted in July 2005 and replaced by a managed-float regime. The ringgit rose to a post-crisis peak of 3.38 against the dollar this year. However, the ringgit still cannot be traded globally.

The Airport money-changers will change ringgit and I've seen it at major money changers in Pattaya.

[Couthy]

There is no problem changing Rinngit in BKK. However, the banks will not accept notes of 5 & below.

So, more than 10 Ring notes is OK.

Personal experience from 3 weeks ago.

Hope this helps the debate.

[Digitalbanana]

There is no problem changing Rinngit in BKK. However, the banks will not accept notes of 5 & below.

So, more than 10 Ring notes is OK.

Personal experience from 3 weeks ago.

Hope this helps the debate.

TMB exchange at BKK airport at arrivals hall takes all Malaysian Ringgit notes 1 thro 100. The bank next door only 50's & 100's.

[farang prince]

Thanks to everyone for their input. After rereading Monty's and Lopburi's posts again, I think I was guilty of overstating the "shakedown" part of this episode. The input from all posters will be helpful as I pass it on to my friend so he will be better prepared if and when he returns to Thailand.

[Digitalbanana]

I think this stinks as well. I've been through Bangkok airport countless times, often with very little THB, sometimes without other currencies but with loads of plastic. Then again, the worst I was coming in with was a UK passport and thus no need for a visa, often on a business visa.

Agree. The story wreaks of selective race targeting of visitors. Probably a good idea, but at least let them use an ATM if needed instead of robbing them.

What would have happened if his ATM card was not acceptable ?

From a likely mickey mouse bank in Malaysia with MYR I think he could have been a little more prepared.

No one said he had only one ATM card, and as he was Chinese with 4400rm in his Chinese bank, leave the mickey mouse Malay banking system out of it:-)

[markr]

Was he asked for the tea money or did he offer it after realising he had no other choice?

[farang prince]

I think this stinks as well. I've been through Bangkok airport countless times, often with very little THB, sometimes without other currencies but with loads of plastic. Then again, the worst I was coming in with was a UK passport and thus no need for a visa, often on a business visa.

Agree. The story wreaks of selective race targeting of visitors. Probably a good idea, but at least let them use an ATM if needed instead of robbing them.

What would have happened if his ATM card was not acceptable ?

From a likely mickey mouse bank in Malaysia with MYR I think he could have been a little more prepared.

No one said he had only one ATM card, and as he was Chinese with 4400rm in his Chinese bank, leave the mickey mouse Malay banking system out of it:-)

Actually, Digitalbanana, I also suspect that there was racial profiling when my friend came through Immigration. He is in his mid-20's and is Chinese. His other three friends he was travelling with were Malay and had no problem getting through Immigration. Hence, my conclusion that it was a "shakedown." I still think I used too strong a term, but the end result was that he was shaken down by an Immigration officer (whether it was an act of "kindness" as Lopburi suggested earlier, or not, I will leave up to all of you to decide).

[baabaabobo]

dont give those greedy officers excuses !!! In that case, all the officer wanted is some "extra" to enrich his day.....

it should be reported to the anti-corruption-committee !

and who is that?

[farang prince]

Was he asked for the tea money or did he offer it after realising he had no other choice?

Mark, he was told that if he wanted entry into the country, he would have to come up with the tea money. No tea money, no tea party.

[ajarnmark]

Some of the guys r bashing the Thai authorities. But for me, Thai authorities r much better than some of their counterparts around the world, for example, USA and India (to get two extremes).

Besides, tell me one thing, if you go outside of your country then you take exactly the same amount as is required by the immigration of that country, or do you take something extra.

I recalled that once I left for Malaysia for the first time, they required me to show USD500 or equivalent and failure to do so would result in not letting me go to Malaysia. What I did is that I immediately, withdrew THB40,000 in addition to MYR and USD that I had in my possession, to be on the safe side. They checked all the money and let me go. So, I learnt: always have much more excess amount than is needed, either in local or foreign currency, in order to avoid problem.

As for immigration officers in Thailand, they did the bad job, they should have not allowed the person to enter the kingdom, but personal greed was more important than laws.

[Old Croc]

When travelling you should always ensure you meet the conditions imposed by the country visited or risk refusal. This would be particularly so if you are a citizen of a country considered high risk. Chinese citizens frequently are profiled at airports around the world and can come under increased scrutiny.

To claim you have money in the bank, but not able to prove it without visiting an ATM outside the controlled arrival area is unwise. It is obviously impossible for Immigration to provide escorts or security to passengers while they go banking in a public area outside.

Your friend should carry sufficient money for his stay, 8800bht is not very much.

The bribery is a separate issue.

[chokdeekrap]

To claim you have money in the bank, but not able to prove it without visiting an ATM outside the controlled arrival area is unwise. It is obviously impossible for Immigration to provide escorts or security to passengers while they go banking in a public area outside.

i'm sorry, but if at the airport, how difficult is it to have an atm or two inside the arrivals area where one can access it before passing thru customs as a convenience? especially if you require certain amounts of moneys upon entry?

sounds like an opportunity to make some "tea money" to me. i had a buddy once visit me in LOS & not familiar with local laws & such put out a smoke butt outside of MBK. immediately he got pulled aside & given a 2000 baht ticket, which was quickly reduced to 500 baht when he paid cash on the spot. when he pointed out there were no alternatives (ashtray, garbage cans etc) close by to dispose of a smkoe butt he was basically told too bad & obey the local laws. funny how them local littering laws are in english & show fines in US dollars. do you think they might be laws for farangs that can read english only?

Your friend should carry sufficient money for his stay, 8800bht is not very much.

i have passed thru thai customs many many times without ever being asked for 10K baht... but if i ever had been asked i woulda had problems, not with producing 10K baht had i been able to get out of line & go to an ATM then get back in line, mind you.

oh well i am sure next time i pass thru thai customs i will have 10K baht + in my pocket just in case they aren't DISCRIMINATING!