Is Thailand Really 'the Land Of Smiles?"

[eek]

There is information all over the net on body language, key signals etc, if you are interested. The first google search i did ("how to read smiles") produced the article below which is on smiles in general (not specifically on Thai smiles) If you see the Thai smiles as being somehow seperate, then im sure if you take a few minutes of research you will find info.

How You Can Really Read A Smile

It’s often said that when Life, or The Universe, has something to teach you, it keeps putting that lesson in front of you until you finally get it.

(Equally, you could argue that sometimes you miss something the first zillion times, because you’re not programmed to notice it. So you keep attracting it in the first place because you don’t see it coming.)

Still, eventually, the sheer weight of repetition brings it to your attention. Even if it’s something you’ve automatically accepted since as far back as you can remember, at some point you finally cotton onto the idea that it’s time to revise your views.

My mother was a great one for lecturing me on the value of a smile; usually when I was feeling thoroughly miserable or peeved, as a small child. “People won’t like you if you don’t smile”, she’d say, baring her teeth in a smile that stopped at the corners of her lips.

As ever, in one sense she was right. Not least because the opposite is true: people tend to be better disposed to people who smile.

It’s a reflex thing. A smile can be very reassuring. It can be like waving a white flag, or like the sun coming out after a storm. Anyone who has ever experienced an abusive relationship becomes expert at watching the abuser’s face for the hint of the smile signifying that, for the time being, the explosion is over.

How often do we take a smile as meaning that things are more right, than wrong, with our world? that the person smiling is friendly, rather than hostile?

Over the past four weeks, I’ve had several intimations that I need to be less careless about the value I habitually ascribe to a smile.

Now this is not to say that I’m in favour of meeting smiles with suspicion. A smile, as the cliché goes, really can brighten your day.

Most people smile to convey a degree of genuine warmth and friendliness. Some don’t. This is why a smile should not automatically outweigh whatever accompanies it.

Frankly, for me a smile often has. Not that I was aware of it before. I’ve interpreted a smile in the same way as the wagging tail of a dog: friendly intentions. I’ve done so even when the words issuing from the person’s lips have been quite savage. Especially if they’ve laughed mid-sentence. The sting in the words must have been unintentional, if they were smiling and laughing.

Not so. There are some calculating people who deliberately use a smile to disarm. Why should we presume to understand a person’s intentions better than the person him (or her) self?

People may not always choose their words altogether consciously, but they do choose them accurately.

Much as they may make some effort to mislead as to their real intentions, they tend not to work too hard at it. They’re unlikely to conceal all the clues.

After a few experiences in the past month when a smile has been used to mask hostility, I’ve resolved to be… not less trusting so much as more aware.

I’ve started to assess what I experience in a more methodical way, by looking at the words, the smile and the left side of the person’s face, especially the left eye.

The overall view that you get of a face comes from the right, or public, side. The left side, when you start to look at it, may be quite different. The left eye may look colder than you might expect. Now, admittedly I'm not a professional Face Reader; it's not my sphere of expertise. But you don’t need to be a Face Reader to see the expression of an eye; you only have to look.

Three criteria have to be better than one. Abuse comes in a vast range of gradations. Learning to pick up small scale, preliminary abuse can only help you to put more effective defences in place against all future abuse.

© 2006 Annie Kaszina

Source: Ezine Articles http://ezinearticles.com/?How-You-Can-Real...e&id=130321

[SamuiJens]

I'm beginning to think that it is easier to make you not realise what they are up to when they smile. So you never really know if they are genuine or not until you really get to know the person.

Blast! the poll went wrong! Sorry.

Please for give me your answer -

Why do they Smile?

1. Because they like us?

2. Because they are hoping to get money from us?

3. Because they are nice friendly people?

4. Because it's a habit?

Smile and the world smiles with ya! :D

[eek]

From: The Truth Behind the Smile and Other Myths - When Body Language Lies

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/archive/3123.html

6. People smile when they're happy. People smile for all sorts of reasons, only one of which is to signal happiness. Ekman describes many kinds of smiles, from the "felt" or true smile to the fear smile, the contempt smile, the dampened smile, the miserable smile, and a number of others. Daniel McNeill, author of The Face: A Natural History, says, "Smiling is innate and appears in infants almost from birth....The first smiles appear two to twelve hours after birth and seem void of content. Infants simply issue them, and they help parents bond. We respond; they don't know what they're doing. The second phase of smiling begins sometime between the fifth week and fourth month. It is the "social smile," in which the infant smiles while fixing its gaze on a person's face."

Whatever their origin or motivation, smiles have a powerful effect on us humans. As McNeill points out, "Though courtroom judges are equally likely to find smilers and nonsmilers guilty, they give smilers lighter penalties, a phenomenon called the 'smile-leniency effect.'" <-- !

------------------

Take from Wikipedia: Body language http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_language

Body language is a product of both genetic and environmental influences. Blind children will smile and laugh even though they have never seen a smile. The ethologist Irenaus Eibl-Eibesfeldt claimed that a number of basic elements of body language were universal across cultures and must therefore be fixed action patterns under instinctive control. Some forms of human body language show continuities with communicative gestures of other apes, though often with changes in meaning. More refined gestures, which vary between cultures (for example the gestures to indicate "yes" and "no"), must be learned or modified through learning, usually by unconscious observation of the environment.

Edited July 12, 2007 by eek

[qwertz]

These are the most forced smiles I know of:

The smiles behind the wiles

The smiles despite the piles

The smile behind the guile

The smile behind the bile

The smiles along the aisle

The smile of the crocodile

Edited July 12, 2007 by qwertz

[eek]

BBC fake smile test: http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/mind/surveys/smiles/

[stevemiddie]

In my hometown of Doncaster, UK ........any smile at a stranger is likely to produce one of two reactions............A blank stare......or usually.........." What the &lt;deleted&gt; you smiling at &lt;deleted&gt; ! " Followed by a headbutt.

Hence the reason for relocating.

[Luckydog]

In my hometown of Doncaster, UK ........any smile at a stranger is likely to produce one of two reactions............A blank stare......or usually.........." What the &lt;deleted&gt; you smiling at &lt;deleted&gt; ! " Followed by a headbutt.

Hence the reason for relocating.

Very true steve. Smiles from strangers are definitely suspect in the UK.

But I don't know if that is enough to make one flee the country?

[enyaw]

At least you get a smile here, it's like drawing hens teeth trying to get a smile from someone back in UK

Yep, England.. the land of gimaces, scorns and frowns.

[shoewah]

I am treated like a Prince every single day in Thailand.

Many Thai people smile and give me a friendly hello. Today on the bus, some Thai school kids said hello. They were all giggles after I replied.

[Monroe]

BBC fake smile test: http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/mind/surveys/smiles/

11/20 On this one.

--

To the topic, of course, it seems we should be taking "Land of Smiles" in metaphoric sense. Rather, to mean land where one can readily achieve happiness (as opposed to just smiles) if they seek it.

For example, say one were to venture to a region in Africa called the "Land of Blood," they would most likely expect a war torn region rather than literal rivers of blood that stretch as far as the eye can see.

To that extent, I do find Thailand appropriately fits the title "Land of Smiles."

I'll go over the resons if asked, but for now, I'll maintain that there's no place my wallet and I would rather live.

Edited July 12, 2007 by Monroe

[mike_rad]

Apparently Buddha Das Bhikku, of Suan Mokkh fame, said that Thailand ceased to be the real Land of Smiles many years ago, implying that the Thais now smile to foreigners because they've been conditioned to do so as the economy is so dependent on tourism.

[endure]

Yes, Thailand is the Land of Smiles. The problem that many farang have is that they believe that a smile has only one meaning. In the same way that Eskimos have many different types of snow, Thais have many different types of smile.

[Thaddeus]

Yes, Thailand is the Land of Smiles. The problem that many farang have is that they believe that a smile has only one meaning. In the same way that Eskimos have many different types of snow, Thais have many different types of smile.

Indeed.

Yesterday I was driving into town, infront of me was a pick-up with half a dozen teen-agers in the back, I didn't initiate the smiles, they did and when it was safe to pass them they all waved.

What did they have to gain from that? absolutely nothing, apart from a big smile and wave back from me.

Where I live not all the smiles are genuine, and not all are the 'pleased to meet you' type, but most are. In my experience the percentage of real smiles drops drastically when I venture out of Isaan.

[lazeeboy]

Yes, Thailand is the Land of Smiles. The problem that many farang have is that they believe that a smile has only one meaning. In the same way that Eskimos have many different types of snow, Thais have many different types of smile.

Indeed.

Yesterday I was driving into town, infront of me was a pick-up with half a dozen teen-agers in the back, I didn't initiate the smiles, they did and when it was safe to pass them they all waved.

What did they have to gain from that? absolutely nothing, apart from a big smile and wave back from me.

Where I live not all the smiles are genuine, and not all are the 'pleased to meet you' type, but most are. In my experience the percentage of real smiles drops drastically when I venture out of Isaan.

the problem is the thais smile at inappropiate times and this can be very annoying ,they do smile more than most other nations ,but not all are genuine

[Ulysses G.]

Yesterday I was driving into town, infront of me was a pick-up with half a dozen teen-agers in the back, I didn't initiate the smiles, they did and when it was safe to pass them they all waved.

What did they have to gain from that? absolutely nothing, apart from a big smile and wave back from me.

I have this kind of experience almost every day in Chiang Mai and often by lovely teenage girls who are not on the game and are just being pleasant.

I feel sorry for those of you who can't tell sincerity from a meaningless polite greeting.

[Scott]

I just love a poll with one choice--Is that how the gov't does their polls?

[Heng]

It's the 'Land of Smiles' for some folks, and for others: both locals and foreigners, like anywhere else, it can be the 'Land of hel_l on Earth.'

Talk about taking a state nickname too seriously. Ever been to the Garden State (yeah, nothing like the paradise of gardens that is New Jersey) or Granite State (never mind that that business has long since faded)?

[jetjock]

How can one not have a smile on their face when they arrive in LOS and are greeted my all the smiling immigration officers and taken around town by all the smiling taxi cab and baht bus drivers and seeing the smiling faces on all the friendly policemen as they travel around town.

It's still the 'Land of Smiiles' for me because I always have a smile on my face when I'm there.

[Huw]

I hate to be the odd man out (actually no I don’t) but I do not think this is the land of smiles; not real smiles, I think the name is stupid, a pipe dream. I know if you look at someone you will get a smile back but it’s not genuine. It is more like they are saying why are you looking at me? Maybe if I smile back I won’t look like I have nothing to say or don’t know what’s going on.

Another smile you will see is, come on over here you brainless rich farang and buy everything in my shop. The BG’s use that same smile for different merchandise.

If you take of the rose colored glasses you will see you actually get a lot of blank looks or even disapproving glares, and most people won’t pay any attention to you at all. That’s why they butt in front of you in line, you’re invisible.

Whatever you might want to wish, if it’s from a stranger you can be guaranteed the smiles are fake and reflexive.

I get real smiles from my Thai friends and family but the rest is a put on.

To answer Luckydog’s poll the closest I can com is #4. Because it's a habit?

The smile is the decoration on the Thai Face which is their most guarded possession. Smiling is camouflage, a way of keeping real emotions behind the mask.

At last! a view based on actual thought and not just reaction. I fully expect to be banned or suspended for having non-politically-correct views, even if they are supported by evidence, but what the hel_l, life is too short to date ugly women or to worry about people who want to pick a fight - right? Here goes then.

Indeed the Thai smile is just that, camouflage, or to use better possible terms, 'armouring' or 'masking'. It is created for a number of reasons, 'Greng Jai' is one, but the most important imho is fear. Fear that if you let someone know what you are thinking or what you are feeling or what is going on in your life, then they have a potential advantage over you. But the seemingly obsessive camouflaging is only one outward aspect of a much wider and deeper cultural approach to life, one in which they are immersed from birth and one which (unless they get significant exposure to a different culture during their adolescence or early adulthood) they will find almost impossible to escape. It is also very suggestive of repression which cannot in my view be entirely healthy. I notice that it is next to impossible to get statistics relating to the suicide rate in Thailand, partly imho because suicide is an unacceptable event which would conflict with the national self-image, and partly because it would suggest a cultural failing which would then have to be addressed.

The title 'Land of smiles' has much more to do with how the Thais would like to be perceived than any reality that may exist. At the risk of attracting the flame throwers and mods, I believe that Thais are adept at camouflaging the very big difference between their actual character traits and the appearance they wish to project. It is a simple deception, though one that (particularly among the poorer of the population who have less to protect) is much more motivated by fear than any wish to deceive.

As I speak I have a copy of 'The Psychology of the Thai People' in front of me, a wonderful and very revealing document produced by a Thai PhD. It is certain that when confronted with a conflict between our uniquely personal world view and a (perhaps very different) world view suggested by science and experts, our own world view generally prevails. It represents our comfort zone and is relinquished reluctantly. Thus the Thai concept that Thais are a spiritual, happy and smiling people will prevail despite a huge amount evidence to the contrary.

As I see it (and this is a personal opinion only), Thailand is a feudal and class-ridden system, and its people are neither affluent (except for the ruling elite), nor happy, though they believe it is sensible to pretend otherwise, hence the semi-permanent smile. It is a primitive and superstitious society, replete with a huge array of totems and arcane beliefs. Thais have a child-like obsession with fun and currying favour, and are generally hugely concerned with seeking reassurance or approval from people, especially farang, whose ranks they would dearly love to join because they think all farang have money, intellect and skill. This relationship is double-edged though, because although they covet the farang, they are deeply afraid and mistrusting of the farang and his/her apparent wealth, skill and knowledge.

Since I came to live in Thailand 3 years ago, I have been through the usual stages of fascination, wonderment, disillusion and eventually disdain. Does this make me less happy here? No, living in Thailand is still better than living in the UK imho. Does any of this make many Thais less charming when in a one-on-one situation? No. But does any of this make me less able or prepared to see the wood for the trees? No.

Am I qualified to give an opinion on the Thai psyche? Yes and I am happy to say why if asked. In the meantime lets hope I don't get any more threats from people who don't like my views or who wish to maintain their own world view aand make it compulsory for everyone. Intelligent discussion and opinion-sharing is never a bad thing.

/rant off

H

Edited July 13, 2007 by Huw

[LomSak27]

Great post huw

Thanks

[terryp]

Huw

You are 100% spot on Sir

Ever notice when a Thai makes a stupid mistake....Laughter

Ever noticed when a Thai does not know the answer...Laughter

Laugh at a Thai...anger

I belive it's a sort of defence system that kicks in

Did anyone spot the change in The TaT tourist marketing a few years back it used to be..

"Welcome to the land of Smiles"....then Became "Welcome to the land of Smile"....says it all really

[Huw]

How can one not have a smile on their face when they arrive in LOS and are greeted my all the smiling immigration officers and taken around town by all the smiling taxi cab and baht bus drivers and seeing the smiling faces on all the friendly policemen as they travel around town.

LOL!

It's still the 'Land of Smiiles' for me because I always have a smile on my face when I'm there.

Yah. me too. Good weather, good food, beautiful women... what's not to enjoy? I ain't going no place anytime soon. Not voluntarily anyways

H

[villagefarang]

Yes, Thailand is the Land of Smiles. The problem that many farang have is that they believe that a smile has only one meaning. In the same way that Eskimos have many different types of snow, Thais have many different types of smile.

I agree

[Erwin1011]

BBC fake smile test: http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/mind/surveys/smiles/

15/20 on this one.

Huw

At last! a view based on actual thought and not just reaction.....

With some minor reservations, I think you nailed it.

[soundman]

Huw - Being un PC should not get you kicked off the board. Good to read opinions that fly in the face of the wind. Not obeying forum rules is an entirely different kettle of fish!

I read somewhere that the thai smile can be divided into 16 (?) categories, each with a different meaning. Only one or two being devoted to genuine happiness or joy.

A foreigner who plans to live or, especially, do business in Thailand is advised to try and learn all these different types of smiles as they communicate so much more than simple facial expressions.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[villagefarang]

I have always said I would rather deal with a person who is dishonestly nice than honestly rude. Think that works for smiles too. As long as you know the difference and meanings.

[Dr. Burrito]

Whilst yes, I know there are a great number of people here who are 'fake' in their smiles, the poll question calls for an overall POV and choosing to say they are freindly people is hardly a knee-jerk reaction.

Yes, for a lot of Thai's, it is a mask, but to say it's for the vast majority is a pretty huge stretch.

I live and work among Thais on a daily basis, and find many to be charming in a one-to-one affair. Is there a larger percentage who are less educated than where we come from, certainly. Is this supposed to make them automatically unhappy and possessed of a need to show a smile as if their life is fulfilling, wen in actuality it isn't? Hardly. Satisfaction and happiness as we tend to know it are Western concepts brought on my decades of not needing to think of survival on a daily basis, as it is largely taken care of, so the Western psychology long ago turned to matters of self-satisfaction, personal growth and other self-focused attainments. Does this mean our smile is genuine, since we clearly aren't burdened by lack of education, superstition, feudal burdens and lack of opportunity? Hardly.

Fake people are fake people everywhere. To say that Thai's use a smile only as a weapon, a mask, a conceit or to cover their ignorance is ignorance itself. When you consider you are coming into contact with people that do not speaky your language, share your religious beliefs or economic opportunities and they are in contact with us 'farang' perhaps less than 5% of their time, does it remotely make sense to say these encounters count for their entire existence?

I, as I am sure have many others, been over large parts of this country and in the various encantations of my existence here, from when I was struggling and getting by on motorbikes to now when economically at least, life is less challenging, and I have found over the spectrum, except for the Hi-So's, for the most part, these are genuine people when I am genuine with them. When I express a real smile or real enjoyment of life, they pretty much do the same. Strangely, that seems to work around the globe. You tend to get what you give, whether it is a patented cliche or not, it is still a norm.

Do they have worries? Of course

Do they have bad moments? Of course

Do they handle encounters of pressure incorrectly? Frequently, but then, so do most people around the world.

The smile you get from them is likely the smile you have induced.

[meemiathai]

I hate to be the odd man out (actually no I don’t) but I do not think this is the land of smiles; not real smiles, I think the name is stupid, a pipe dream. I know if you look at someone you will get a smile back but it’s not genuine. It is more like they are saying why are you looking at me? Maybe if I smile back I won’t look like I have nothing to say or don’t know what’s going on.

Another smile you will see is, come on over here you brainless rich farang and buy everything in my shop. The BG’s use that same smile for different merchandise.

If you take of the rose colored glasses you will see you actually get a lot of blank looks or even disapproving glares, and most people won’t pay any attention to you at all. That’s why they butt in front of you in line, you’re invisible.

Whatever you might want to wish, if it’s from a stranger you can be guaranteed the smiles are fake and reflexive.

I get real smiles from my Thai friends and family but the rest is a put on.

To answer Luckydog’s poll the closest I can com is #4. Because it's a habit?

The smile is the decoration on the Thai Face which is their most guarded possession. Smiling is camouflage, a way of keeping real emotions behind the mask.

At last! a view based on actual thought and not just reaction. I fully expect to be banned or suspended for having non-politically-correct views, even if they are supported by evidence, but what the hel_l, life is too short to date ugly women or to worry about people who want to pick a fight - right? Here goes then.

Indeed the Thai smile is just that, camouflage, or to use better possible terms, 'armouring' or 'masking'. It is created for a number of reasons, 'Greng Jai' is one, but the most important imho is fear. Fear that if you let someone know what you are thinking or what you are feeling or what is going on in your life, then they have a potential advantage over you. But the seemingly obsessive camouflaging is only one outward aspect of a much wider and deeper cultural approach to life, one in which they are immersed from birth and one which (unless they get significant exposure to a different culture during their adolescence or early adulthood) they will find almost impossible to escape. It is also very suggestive of repression which cannot in my view be entirely healthy. I notice that it is next to impossible to get statistics relating to the suicide rate in Thailand, partly imho because suicide is an unacceptable event which would conflict with the national self-image, and partly because it would suggest a cultural failing which would then have to be addressed.

The title 'Land of smiles' has much more to do with how the Thais would like to be perceived than any reality that may exist. At the risk of attracting the flame throwers and mods, I believe that Thais are adept at camouflaging the very big difference between their actual character traits and the appearance they wish to project. It is a simple deception, though one that (particularly among the poorer of the population who have less to protect) is much more motivated by fear than any wish to deceive.

As I speak I have a copy of 'The Psychology of the Thai People' in front of me, a wonderful and very revealing document produced by a Thai PhD. It is certain that when confronted with a conflict between our uniquely personal world view and a (perhaps very different) world view suggested by science and experts, our own world view generally prevails. It represents our comfort zone and is relinquished reluctantly. Thus the Thai concept that Thais are a spiritual, happy and smiling people will prevail despite a huge amount evidence to the contrary.

As I see it (and this is a personal opinion only), Thailand is a feudal and class-ridden system, and its people are neither affluent (except for the ruling elite), nor happy, though they believe it is sensible to pretend otherwise, hence the semi-permanent smile. It is a primitive and superstitious society, replete with a huge array of totems and arcane beliefs. Thais have a child-like obsession with fun and currying favour, and are generally hugely concerned with seeking reassurance or approval from people, especially farang, whose ranks they would dearly love to join because they think all farang have money, intellect and skill. This relationship is double-edged though, because although they covet the farang, they are deeply afraid and mistrusting of the farang and his/her apparent wealth, skill and knowledge.

Since I came to live in Thailand 3 years ago, I have been through the usual stages of fascination, wonderment, disillusion and eventually disdain. Does this make me less happy here? No, living in Thailand is still better than living in the UK imho. Does any of this make many Thais less charming when in a one-on-one situation? No. But does any of this make me less able or prepared to see the wood for the trees? No.

Am I qualified to give an opinion on the Thai psyche? Yes and I am happy to say why if asked. In the meantime lets hope I don't get any more threats from people who don't like my views or who wish to maintain their own world view aand make it compulsory for everyone. Intelligent discussion and opinion-sharing is never a bad thing.

/rant off

H

I bet 99% of the farangs, no matter how hard they try won't be able to understand this on their own. Lucky there are experts to point us out.

[meemiathai]

if it’s from a stranger you can be guaranteed the smiles are fake and reflexive

if it's from a stranger in London, can one be guaranteed that the scorns and frowns are fake and reflexive? Or are they real?

[meemiathai]

What is a real smile and what is a fake one by the way?