Fraudulent Online Payments

[jil]

For the first time in my life I've been the victim of fraudulent online payments by someone using the data of my debit card.

 

It happened last Sunday, and the total damage was about €300. 

I immediately blocked the card.

 

On my online banking app I requested a refund but it was rejected because the money already had been claimed by the merchant.

 

I contacted my online bank. I actually don't use this bank often and haven't put that much money on it. That's maybe a reason why this bank's customer service didn't appear to be very interested in this fraud, they only sent me an email and didn't answer specific questions. Very disappointing.

 

I've sent the merchant an email after the refund was rejected.

I also requested a chargeback on my banking app.

 

By the way, the merchant was a Canadian airline company. I don't know if or how they investigate this case, but it could be a starting point to look at the passenger who flew with the ticket. Or isn't it as simple as this?

 

So I wonder, is there any chance of getting my money back?

And are there any other steps that I could take?

[circa02]

They will look at how the card was processed. Did the airline company take the payment in person with a PIN requested, for example your card was cloned after learning the PIN, or if online was it authenticated or not authenticated - VbV/SecureCode - those prompts that redirect to your bank website or banking app for extra confirmation. If it was not authenticated then they will likely take your word and issue a chargeback presuming you have no history of chargebacks, the airline will then have several weeks to challenge this - you may be refunded earlier but the money can still be taken again after a chargeback challenge, they may use boarding data, or checkout data, to prove it was you, or a family member, or your thai GF. They may have look at the data and not challenge it if it was evidently fraud - if it was authenticated though they won't be liable but alas neither will you if your bank believe you took all reasonable precautions. If they challenge it and lose and they still consider the collection genuine they may ban you for life or refer to a collection agency - see Ryanair COVID denied boarding due chargebacks that happened in 2022.

 

Not more steps to take, let the chargeback proceed and you'll hear in a few weeks. The airline company is unlikely to work with you, lack of manpower and possibly data protection laws.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by circa02

[scubascuba3]

Just pressurise the bank, that's all you can do

[jil]

11 minutes ago, circa02 said:

They will look at how the card was processed. Did the airline company take the payment in person with a PIN requested, for example your card was cloned after learning the PIN, or if online was it authenticated or not authenticated - VbV/SecureCode - those prompts that redirect to your bank website or banking app for extra confirmation. If it was not authenticated then they will likely take your word and issue a chargeback presuming you have no history of chargebacks, the airline will then have several weeks to challenge this - you may be refunded earlier but the money can still be taken again after a chargeback challenge, they may use boarding data, or checkout data, to prove it was you, or a family member, or your thai GF. They may have look at the data and not challenge it if it was evidently fraud - if it was authenticated though they won't be liable but alas neither will you if your bank believe you took all reasonable precautions. If they challenge it and lose and they still consider the collection genuine they may ban you for life or refer to a collection agency - see Ryanair COVID denied boarding due chargebacks that happened in 2022.

 

Not more steps to take, let the chargeback proceed and you'll hear in a few weeks. The airline company is unlikely to work with you, lack of manpower and possibly data protection laws.

 

 

Thank you.

I'm not sure how the payment was made but I guess my debit card data were leaked somewhere and no extra authentication was required.

Reading your comment it looks like I actually have a fairly big chance of getting back my money, or did I misread you?

[circa02]

11 minutes ago, jil said:

Thank you.

I'm not sure how the payment was made but I guess my debit card data were leaked somewhere and no extra authentication was required.

Reading your comment it looks like I actually have a fairly big chance of getting back my money, or did I misread you?

Yes you have a very high chance of getting your money back for a legitimate charge-back, the process works. It will take time, several weeks perhaps.  This is presuming, you have a zero or low history of charge-backs with the originating bank (your card's bank) - as the process has been abused before, and the airline can't present significant evidence proving it was you - i.e. you flew.  If it was authenticated you may still get your money back, but since your card's bank will be eating the cost (instead of the airline eating the costs for unauthenticated or card-not-present), they will look at how the authentication was performed and they may question if you gave your SSN, DOB, PIN, Favourite Food question etc.. to your significant other or were otherwise irresponsible, you gave Ben from Microsoft on that call a teamviewer code to your desktop that had a text file called passwords.txt. In some cases if it was authenticated, they might eat the cost, but place additional restrictions on your new card or other markers on your account, there is a big push to crackdown on chargeback abuse now - the whole industry is taking it very seriously - 10yrs for example (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/man-gets-10-year-prison-sentence-after-exploiting-common-consumer-refund-tool-2018-06-12)

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by circa02

[jil]

10 minutes ago, circa02 said:

Yes you have a very high chance of getting your money back for a legitimate charge-back, the process works. It will take time, several weeks perhaps.  This is presuming, you have a zero or low history of charge-backs with the originating bank (your card's bank) - as the process has been abused before, and the airline can't present significant evidence proving it was you - i.e. you flew.  If it was authenticated you may still get your money back, but since your card's bank will be eating the cost (instead of the airline eating the costs for unauthenticated or card-not-present), they will look at how the authentication was performed and they may question if you gave your SSN, DOB, PIN, Favourite Food question etc.. to your significant other or were otherwise irresponsible, you gave Ben from Microsoft on that call a teamviewer code to your desktop that had a text file called passwords.txt. In some cases if it was authenticated, they might eat the cost, but place additional restrictions on your new card or other markers on your account, there is a big push to crackdown on chargeback abuse now - the whole industry is taking it very seriously - 10yrs for example (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/man-gets-10-year-prison-sentence-after-exploiting-common-consumer-refund-tool-2018-06-12)

 

 

 

No extra authentication was required, if so I of course wouldn't have confirmed this payment.

So the airline company has to pay the chargeback?

And what if the bank leaves this case for what it is (I haven't been too friendly to them because in my opinion they didn't provide sufficient customer service, so maybe that won't help my case) do I then have a(nother) way to pressure the bank to come forward with the money?

[circa02]

15 minutes ago, jil said:

No extra authentication was required, if so I of course wouldn't have confirmed this payment.

So the airline company has to pay the chargeback?

And what if the bank leaves this case for what it is (I haven't been too friendly to them because in my opinion they didn't provide sufficient customer service, so maybe that won't help my case) do I then have a(nother) way to pressure the bank to come forward with the money?

If no extra authentication, and the charge-back is not disputed (or not disputed successfully), then yes it is deducted from the airline's merchant balance behind the scenes in the end, but to you, your bank will simply credit to you. You will not have any interaction with the airline regarding the charge-back.

 

If the bank has accepted the chargeback - this is when you give them the information - through app or phone or branch or in the old days a paper form, they will screen the chargeback, make sure it all makes sense, they don't do much else here, if they need more information then they will contact you again, but this should happen fairly quickly usually in less than a week. The chargeback then goes to the scheme - the scheme is either Visa, Mastercard, UnionPay, JCB/Diners (Amex is little different as more vertically integrated despite cobranding) and this is where it takes time and eventually goes to the airlines merchant bank and to the airline staff that handle chargeback disputes.  Your visibility is limited once it goes to the scheme, and many in cases once you've submitted stage 1 of the chargeback you also get no updates. This can get lengthy, but if you don't hear from your bank in the next week, and they've told you the chargeback is in process, then don't worry, presume it has left your bank and is the hands of the scheme, you won't learn much in the meantime...  It would be unusual for a bank to claim they've submitted a chargeback on your behalf but actually not do it because you've called them lazy sods before ???? If you're worried call your bank in a week and ask the customer service rep to confirm that the chargeback department has submitted it to Visa/Mastercard/UnionPay/JCB whatever logo is on your debit card. I don't believe you have any other options whilst the chargeback is in process, if you have a good relationship with the bank and are in financial hardship due to this charge, they may prematurely credit your account whilst the chargeback is in the process (then they keep the chargeback).

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by circa02

[jil]

6 minutes ago, circa02 said:

If no extra authentication, and the charge-back is not disputed (or not disputed successfully), then yes it is deducted from the airline's merchant balance behind the scenes in the end, but to you, your bank will simply credit to you. You will not have any interaction with the airline regarding the charge-back.

 

If the bank has accepted the chargeback - this is when you give them the information - through app or phone or branch or in the old days a paper form, they will screen the chargeback, make sure it all makes sense, they don't do much else here, if they need more information then they will contact you again, but this should happen fairly quickly usually in less than a week. The chargeback then goes to scheme - the scheme is either Visa, Mastercard, UnionPay, JCB/Diners (Amex is little different as more vertically integrated despite cobranding) and this is where it takes time and eventually goes to the airlines merchant bank and to do airline staff that handle chargeback disputes.  Your visibility is limited once it goes to the scheme, but many in cases once you've submitted stage 1 of the chargeback you also get no updates. This can get lengthy, but if you don't hear from your bank in the next week, and they've told you the chargeback is in process, then don't worry, presume it has left your bank and is the hands of scheme, you won't learn much in the meantime...  It would be unusual for a bank to claim they've submitted a chargeback on your behalf but actually not do it because you've called them lazy sods before ????

 

 

Thank you so much! ????