Starting A Diesel Off In Second?

[Lithobid]

Howdy all you smart car and truck people. I have a question as I am not one of you, and know little about cars and nothing about the 2.5 litre 12 valve Diesle truck I just bought in Thailand. It's 10 years old, Mazda, great condition. I previously owned a Subaru Outback in the USA, and often would start off in Second Gear. The car never had any problems handling it, and I figured I was never doing any damage to the clutch. Now that I'm driving an older truck, I want to be carefull for her health, and want to know can I do the same thing. Mind you I don't do the typical "Thai" burn out at a green light, and wouldn't start off second on a hill surface, just flat roads, and gentle downhill slopes, "downtown" driving basically.

Am I hurting the truck by skipping first gear?

Thanks for the Info!

Lithobid

[Gary A]

Howdy all you smart car and truck people. I have a question as I am not one of you, and know little about cars and nothing about the 2.5 litre 12 valve Diesle truck I just bought in Thailand. It's 10 years old, Mazda, great condition. I previously owned a Subaru Outback in the USA, and often would start off in Second Gear. The car never had any problems handling it, and I figured I was never doing any damage to the clutch. Now that I'm driving an older truck, I want to be carefull for her health, and want to know can I do the same thing. Mind you I don't do the typical "Thai" burn out at a green light, and wouldn't start off second on a hill surface, just flat roads, and gentle downhill slopes, "downtown" driving basically.

Am I hurting the truck by skipping first gear?

Thanks for the Info!

Lithobid

The low gear in most pick up trucks is usually VERY low. I too usually start off in second gear. As long as you don't ride the clutch you won't hurt anything. The diesels have way more torque than the gasoline engines so stalling the engine is not a problem.

[funfun]

Howdy all you smart car and truck people. I have a question as I am not one of you, and know little about cars and nothing about the 2.5 litre 12 valve Diesle truck I just bought in Thailand. It's 10 years old, Mazda, great condition. I previously owned a Subaru Outback in the USA, and often would start off in Second Gear. The car never had any problems handling it, and I figured I was never doing any damage to the clutch. Now that I'm driving an older truck, I want to be carefull for her health, and want to know can I do the same thing. Mind you I don't do the typical "Thai" burn out at a green light, and wouldn't start off second on a hill surface, just flat roads, and gentle downhill slopes, "downtown" driving basically.

Am I hurting the truck by skipping first gear?

Thanks for the Info!

Lithobid

dont get into the lazy habbit if ya can help it, its there for a reason that first gear, but if ya feel ya have to try see what she does, but its using more gas for a start and youre right about the clutch, then theres the vibration doing whatever damage!

now a company car or hire car it is perfectly acceptible!

you should have got an auto mr lazy!

[Yorkie]

I agree that diesel engines have more torque than petrol engines so it is unlikely that you will cause any damage starting in 2nd either on the flat or downhill.

However, having driven petrol engine cars most of my life, I always start in first gear unless the truck is still rolling, as does FG (because I taught her).

If you are a passenger in a Thai driven truck/car, you will probably find that they never use first gear or in some cases not even second!

[Mid]

yep , manufacturer never knew what he was doing ,

putting all those gears in there imagine ..................

[chanchao]

You obviously don't have the 2.5 Turbo-Diesel model for that Mazda but rather the 2900 or 2500 non turbo. Good!

Anyway, I once read the manual for an Isuzu truck which has LOADS of torque and still it recommends to use first gear, for fuel economy especially.

yep , manufacturer never knew what he was doing , putting all those gears in there imagine ..

Well, they DO have to design them for people who stack them sky-high with cabbages and want to drive up Doi Inthanon. That's different from completely empty gong out of your driveway.

[Mid]

Well, they DO have to design them for people who stack them sky-high with cabbages and want to drive up Doi Inthanon.

that my friend ,

is what all that torque is for , not starting in 2nd / 3rd gear .

[puuchai299]

if you want to have it ten years more then use 1st always.save the clutch and your money.

[Gary A]

They put a low (1st) gear in a truck to get a HEAVY load moving. If you're not hauling a ton or more there is no reason to use creeper gear. Loaded or starting out going uphill is a different matter. THAT'S what first gear is for.

[Sanpatong]

My Isuzu pulls away in third gear just fine.

Actually around town third gear is all I need. I'm saving the other ones for later.

[Lithobid]

Aside from all of you with those wonderfull sarcastic responses, Mid, you all seem 50/50 about is it ok or not. No I am not pulling a heavy load, it's just me, and an empty truck. Does anyone have any scientific data , or actually study result other than banter?

I'm not asking for much......

[madjbs]

I think you got lots of useful responses actually. If you call these responses sarcastic then I hope you never venture into any other threads here!

Edited July 13, 2007 by madjbs

[Mid]

I'm not asking for much......

here you go

Getting in Gear

Drivers can save clutch and drivetrain wear by starting in the right gear. Using first gear when starting reduces both drivetrain stress and clutch slippage, because the engine generates a lot less torque, and the clutch locks up sooner. Starting in any other gear will cause the clutch to fail prematurely.

[funfun]

Aside from all of you with those wonderfull sarcastic responses, Mid, you all seem 50/50 about is it ok or not. No I am not pulling a heavy load, it's just me, and an empty truck. Does anyone have any scientific data , or actually study result other than banter?

I'm not asking for much......

well i posted earlier and thought it was a fair reply,

and as for scientific data??? would you look up weather to wear a hat today or not!!!

he, he, time ya spent on here you could have changed gear 100 times!!!

why dont you just use it!

can see another post in 1 year,

does any one know how to take a gearbox out of a pickup!

only joking hope you get yourselfe sorted out!

[markr]

Pulling away in 2nd gear will not damage the clutch, rather shorten the life of it.

The fact that a vehicle has more or less torque is irrellevant, the part of the clutch that wears is made of a friction material similar to that of brake pads, so on vehicles with higher power/torque out puts this material is harder wearing.

Pulling away in second gear puts more strain on this friction material

Think of it this way, if you want to check if the clutch has worn badly in a vehicle you put it in 5th gear and try to accelerate from a low speed, this will cause the clutch to slip, i.e more strain on the system.

Mark

[mijan24]

They put (1st) gear in a truck to get a HEAVY load moving. If you're not hauling a ton or more there is no reason to use creeper gear. Loaded or starting out going uphill is a different matter. THAT'S what first gear is for.

Gary A right on the button as usual - of course here we are talking "utilitys" pick ups where the same transmission in most cases is installed into 2 & 4 wheel drive models it (the transmission) therefore has to be capable of accomodating true 4 wheel drive useage (sand, mud) as well as normal 2 wheel highway driving.(economies of scale)

[MaiChai]

I once replaced a clutch in an Isuzu TFR (parts shop offered me 4 different clutches varying from cheapest/lowest quality for mechanics in it for the money to original part for the owner/mechanic enthusiast ). I can tell you that a pickup clutch is well built and should last a LONG time. Thus have no fear in starting in 2nd, and as others stated, the first gear is designed for (Thai) overloaded pickups with loads of weight to move.

I have noticed my Mitsu Triton does not have the same gearing on 1st as the two Isuzu's I owned before this; I figure its because I have the four door, which is more of a hybrid/multipurpose vehicle unlike a pure 2door (non spacecab) which would be designed as a true working vehicle. So my Triton is more car like and I do start in 1st

[Crossy]

I have noticed my Mitsu Triton does not have the same gearing on 1st as the two Isuzu's I owned before this; I figure its because I have the four door, which is more of a hybrid/multipurpose vehicle unlike a pure 2door (non spacecab) which would be designed as a true working vehicle. So my Triton is more car like and I do start in 1st

My 4-door Ranger seem like that too, not comfortable starting in second even on the flat (there's a pretty big gap between 1 and 2 too) much more car-like.

My son's old Isuzu will happily start in second even with a bed full of family, it would go up the side of a house in 1st.

[moo9]

If you are a passenger in a Thai driven truck/car, you will probably find that they never use first gear or in some cases not even second!

Now I know why it always takes hours to accelerate at a traffic light turning green

[Lithobid]

Thank's Mid for the reference source, and thanks to all who replied. Especially those with sarcastic responses! you keep me laughing throughout the workday. (Just loved some of them about the guy and his boat at patong beach)

I get the picture, use first, occasionally it's ok if I use second, as long as I don't have a heavy load. Those of you who quoted fuel consumption, I really doubted your comments, so I did a little experiment, and when using first everytime, I gained about 30km to half a tank of Diesel. So I stand corrected on that point! Thanks again for the help!

Lithobid

[peacemakers]

I recently bought a nissan NV and costing me a lot of money on petrol. for 60km I have to refill petrol 95 cost 1000 Baht. Did anyone know why ? The car is running well with no problems. What should I do to fix it ? thanks.

[percy2]

I recently bought a nissan NV and costing me a lot of money on petrol. for 60km I have to refill petrol 95 cost 1000 Baht. Did anyone know why ? The car is running well with no problems. What should I do to fix it ? thanks.

Check for holes in the fuel tank.

Cheers

[peacemakers]

I recently bought a nissan NV and costing me a lot of money on petrol. for 60km I have to refill petrol 95 cost 1000 Baht. Did anyone know why ? The car is running well with no problems. What should I do to fix it ? thanks.

Check for holes in the fuel tank.

Cheers

Thanks for the advice. Can I check it myself, if so, how? or i have to take it to motor mechanic ?

[wilko]

Most Thai pick-ups do NOT have a crawler first gear, they are designed more like a road car and really you should use first. 4wds have a low ratio which will give you a crawler gear if you want one.

[Sanpatong]

My 4-door Ranger seem like that too, not comfortable starting in second even on the flat (there's a pretty big gap between 1 and 2 too) much more car-like.

Yes. Though in this case it's because of the 2.5 liter TurboDiesel engine which really isn't an engine that's suited to a a pick-up or off-road vehicle. So the 2 door cab model with the same engine would also suffer from lack of torque. That engine is great for highway driving, but nothing short of a disgrace when it comes to hauling a load up a trail.

[geoffphuket]

On my short list of vehicles I'm considering, is a Nissan Navara which has a 7 speed box. Has anyone any experience of how these pull away in second? I would think 1st gear is completely unnecessary with 404Nm torque and 174PS out of its 2.5L diesel....In fact I can't understand why they haven't reduced the number of gears instead of adding an extra one.

geoffphuket

[elkangorito]

On my short list of vehicles I'm considering, is a Nissan Navara which has a 7 speed box. Has anyone any experience of how these pull away in second? I would think 1st gear is completely unnecessary with 404Nm torque and 174PS out of its 2.5L diesel....In fact I can't understand why they haven't reduced the number of gears instead of adding an extra one.

geoffphuket

Having owned & driven Toyota Landcruisers (both petrol & diesel, long & short wheelbase) for about 18 years, I can assure you that the engineers who decided the ratio of 1st gear in such vehicles, did so for a very good reason. These somewhat 'heavy' vehicles have ample torque to take-off from 2nd gear when unladen & on a generally flat & level surface. Increase the load & the incline & you have a totally different kettle of fish.

Clutches will far out-last an auto transmission any day, given that the 'riding' of the clutch does not happen & that load & incline is realised.

I'm sure other posters have indicated this.

[borracho]

A lot depends on tyre size, gearing and load.

If you need to slip the clutch very much to get going in 2nd you should be using 1st gear.

Properly driven a clutch will last 300K+ km. A poorly driven clutch might not make 60K.

The test would be if you can let the clutch out in at an idle without stalling the engine.

IME it's better to use 1st to get going and "short shift" if you're on a flat road or going down hill.

[percy2]

Check for holes in the fuel tank.

Cheers

Thanks for the advice. Can I check it myself, if so, how? or i have to take it to motor mechanic ?

Asking that question shows you should go to a mechanic..

[Clipped]

not too sure of diesels, but for regular gasoline engines valve chatter is your major warning sign of not starting out in a high gear.