Outrage over Abbas's antisemitic speech on Jews and Holocaust

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, Nick Carter icp said:

The sickening thing is that adult Palestinians put their Children on the front line and encourage them to attack Israeli soldiers and when Israeli soldiers respond  , the Palestinians  use their dead Children as some kind of trophy , to make it even more sickening, they then compare their deliberately killed children to the Holocaust .

   Thats the kind of people Israel has to deal with 

Sure, We get it. Palestinians don't value their kids lives so they send them out to get shot just to bait the Israeli soldiers. The kind of people who believe that are racists.

[MrMojoRisin]

13 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

What should the punishment be for "kids" throwing rocks at people? 

What a silly question.

 

They, of course, should be shot.

There and then.

On the spot.

No trial, no questions.

Bang!

Brains and skull fragments splattered across the earth.

 

What a silly question.

 

 

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Its not just kids throwing rocks at people , its thousands of people (including kids) all attacking a border fence trying to breach the security fence and to attack the people on the other side of the fence .

   "The kids" were attempting to invade another Country .

If it's another country then why don't the Israelis act like it and get the hell out of Palestine?

[Nick Carter icp]

28 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

Abbas is 86 today, so his parents must have seen between 1930 and 1938 many ships coming to shore in Palestine with Jews coming from Germany under the Havaara agreement between the Nazi party and the Zionist movement.

 

Those +/- 350.000 German/Czechoslovakian Jews were not expelled from Germany by the Nazi party.

 

The Havaara agreement ended promptly in 1939 when US Jews declared war to Nazi Germany.

The Havaara agreement ended when Germany invaded Poland and Hitler though of a "better " idea of how the solve Germanys Jewish "problem"

   He opened up Auschwitz to deal with the problem  

[Thorgal]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’ll see your Google and raise you Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the Constitution of the United States.

No, the bilateral agreements between German Jews and the Nazi party were respected till 1938.

 

Jewish organizations from UK, US, Poland and now Russia were actually opposed to these agreements through demonstrations, lobbying, and being active in the resistance.

 

So yes, from the historical perspective of Abbas there was no racial and/or religious trigger to stop the Havaara agreement due to political and military opposition and influence.

 

Please note that these Jewish entities around the world were not always working together with the same agenda.

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Sure, We get it. Palestinians don't value their kids lives so they send them out to get shot just to bait the Israeli soldiers. The kind of people who believe that are racists.

What about those people who state correctly  that Hamas fire rockets into Israel from Schools in Gaza , so that when Israel fires back at the location where the missiles were launched from , the school gets hit , are they racist as well ?

[Cory1848]

16 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

Google : "Judea declares war on Germany" + demonstrations in the US and the forthcoming economic sanctions against Germany

OK, I was curious and Googled “Judea Declares War on Germany.” Turns out it’s a documentary film by a gentleman named Fredrick Töben, founder of the Adelaide Institute in Australia who has a Wikipedia page that tells you all you need to know.

 

Seriously, I had no idea, and I thank you very much for bringing this to my attention. It’s important to know these things.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

No, the bilateral agreements between German Jews and the Nazi party were respected till 1938.

 

Jewish organizations from UK, US, Poland and now Russia were actually opposed to these agreements through demonstrations, lobbying, and being active in the resistance.

 

So yes, from the historical perspective of Abbas there was no racial and/or religious trigger to stop the Havaara agreement due to political and military opposition and influence.

 

Please note that these Jewish entities around the world were not always working together with the same agenda.

Stop dodging:

36 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

The Havaara agreement ended promptly in 1939 when US Jews declared war to Nazi Germany.

The power of the US to declare war resides with Congress, private citizens may not declare war.

 

US Jews never declared war on Nazi Germany, there is no means by which they could do so.

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

What about those people who state correctly  that Hamas fire rockets into Israel from Schools in Gaza , so that when Israel fires back at the location where the missiles were launched from , the school gets hit , are they racist as well ?

Are the illegal Israeli settlements genocide or not?

 

This is the point I made when I said Israel is a nazi state. Apart from shooting kids which you have made clear is justified in your opinion, it is the only criterion I used to judge Israel as being a nazi state.

 

You have consistently dodged this question like kryptonite and now you are again attempting to deflect and to suggest there might be other reasons I think Israel is a nazi state. There aren't. This is the only reason. Since you won't answer that question with a direct answer I guess my point stands.

 

edit: Nor did I use the word racist at any time.

Edited September 20, 2023 by ozimoron

[Thorgal]

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

The Havaara agreement ended when Germany invaded Poland and Hitler though of a "better " idea of how the solve Germanys Jewish "problem"

   He opened up Auschwitz to deal with the problem  

No, they first organized a conference in France (Evian) and invited most EU countries and Jewish organizations to solve the problem of Jewish refugees to bring them "back" to Palestine. Future Istraeli Prime Minister Golda Meyer(son) was there...

 

The British Empire still imposed a "blockade' on Jewish immigrants in Palestine coming from Europe and most EU countries didn't bring in those German Jewish refugees for asylum.

[Nick Carter icp]

23 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

Google : "Judea declares war on Germany" + demonstrations in the US and the forthcoming economic sanctions against Germany

Found something from Wiki , its a theory which is popular with Neo Nazis and Holocaust deniers 

 

The claim that there was a Jewish war against Nazi Germany is an antisemitic conspiracy theory promoted in Nazi propaganda which asserts that the Jews, framed within the theory as a single historical actor, started World War II and sought the destruction of Germany. Alleging that war was declared in 1939 by Chaim Weizmann, president of the World Zionist Organization, Nazis used this false notion to justify the persecution of Jews under German control on the grounds that the Holocaust was justified self-defense. Since the end of World War II, the conspiracy theory has been popular among neo-Nazis and Holocaust deniers.[1][2][3]

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_war_conspiracy_theory

 

 

[Thorgal]

9 minutes ago, Cory1848 said:

OK, I was curious and Googled “Judea Declares War on Germany.” Turns out it’s a documentary film by a gentleman named Fredrick Töben, founder of the Adelaide Institute in Australia who has a Wikipedia page that tells you all you need to know.

 

Seriously, I had no idea, and I thank you very much for bringing this to my attention. It’s important to know these things.

There are many modified versions available on the internet. 

 

Original, limited genuine ones are still availably in some US en EU museums/libraries.

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, Thorgal said:

There are many modified versions available on the internet. 

 

Original, limited genuine ones are still availably in some US en EU museums/libraries.

What does the film contain ?

World Jews took measures to boycott Hitlers Nazi Germany when Hitler came to power and after his book Mein Kampf was released and World Jews got rather concerned about his final solution for them 

[Thorgal]

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

What does the film contain ?

World Jews took measures to boycott Hitlers Nazi Germany when Hitler came to power and after his book Mein Kampf was released and World Jews got rather concerned about his final solution for them 

I'm talking about the article of the news paper (Judea declares war to Germany).

 

German Jews were willing to work together with the Nazi party to work together for the emigration of German Jews to Palestine.

Some 80.000 Jews received a German certificate of education in artisan, agriculture or horticulture between 1930 and 1938. Those 80.000 Jews were the future cornerstone of the Israeli Kibbutz.

 

The Haganah (Jewish Defense/Intel) worked closely together with the Nazi Gestapo to coordinate emigration of Jewish refugees to Palestine. They used Greek ships to bypass British blockades.

The offices of the Haganah were situated in Paris and Vienna. 

The office of the Haganah in Paris was actually in front, at the other side of the street in Paris of the main Gestapo center. Both representatives met each other regularly for arranger the expedition of refugees to Palestine. 

 

[Thorgal]

21 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Found something from Wiki , its a theory which is popular with Neo Nazis and Holocaust deniers 

 

The claim that there was a Jewish war against Nazi Germany is an antisemitic conspiracy theory promoted in Nazi propaganda which asserts that the Jews, framed within the theory as a single historical actor, started World War II and sought the destruction of Germany. Alleging that war was declared in 1939 by Chaim Weizmann, president of the World Zionist Organization, Nazis used this false notion to justify the persecution of Jews under German control on the grounds that the Holocaust was justified self-defense. Since the end of World War II, the conspiracy theory has been popular among neo-Nazis and Holocaust deniers.[1][2][3]

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_war_conspiracy_theory

 

 

Sorry, I'm not into that anti-semitic, revisionist, holocaust denier thing.

 

I provide historical facts.

[Cory1848]

22 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

There are many modified versions available on the internet. 

 

Original, limited genuine ones are still availably in some US en EU museums/libraries.

My post was actually dripping with sarcasm. In all seriousness, it *is* important to know a little bit about someone like Fredrick Töben and the Adelaide Institute, but I have no intention of rooting out his documentary.

[Nick Carter icp]

6 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

I'm talking about the article of the news paper (Judea declares war to Germany).

 

German Jews were willing to work together with the Nazi party to work together for the emigration of German Jews to Palestine.

Some 80.000 Jews received a German certificate of education in artisan, agriculture or horticulture between 1930 and 1938. Those 80.000 Jews were the future cornerstone of the Israeli Kibbutz.

 

The Haganah (Jewish Defense/Intel) worked closely together with the Nazi Gestapo to coordinate emigration of Jewish refugees to Palestine. They used Greek ships to bypass British blockades.

The offices of the Haganah were situated in Paris and Vienna. 

The office of the Haganah in Paris was actually in front, at the other side of the street in Paris of the main Gestapo center. Both representatives met each other regularly for arranger the expedition of refugees to Palestine. 

 

Yes, Hitler wanted the Jews out of Germany , Zionists made the suggestion that Hitler could send German Jews to Palestine .

    Both Hitler and Zionists wanted to get the Jews out of Germany , and they did work together to achieve this .

   Hitler wanted the Jews gone/dead , Zionists wanted to keep the Jews alive 

[Nick Carter icp]

13 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

Sorry, I'm not into that anti-semitic, revisionist, holocaust denier thing.

 

I provide historical facts.

Judea declaring war on Germany isn't a fact .

It was propaganda used by the Nazis to justify their treatment of Jews .

  

 

[Thorgal]

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

Yes, Hitler wanted the Jews out of Germany , Zionists made the suggestion that Hitler could send German Jews to Palestine .

    Both Hitler and Zionists wanted to get the Jews out of Germany , and they did work together to achieve this .

   Hitler wanted the Jews gone/dead , Zionists wanted to keep the Jews alive 

Well, the announcement of the collaboration between the German Zionist movement and the Nazi party was announced in "der Angriff", a journal under control of nobody less than Joseph Goebbels.

 

The German Ministry of Agriculture was against the decision of the Nazi leadership to provide the German Jews an education certificate of compliancy from the Ministry of Agriculture. The debates were so fierce and counterproductive that Himmler (SS highest authority) himself had to back off the Ministry of Agriculture.

 

There was no religious persecution in that time.

 

[Nick Carter icp]

5 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

Well, the announcement of the collaboration between the German Zionist movement and the Nazi party was announced in "der Angriff", a journal under control of nobody less than Joseph Goebbels.

 

The German Ministry of Agriculture was against the decision of the Nazi leadership to provide the German Jews an education certificate of compliancy from the Ministry of Agriculture. The debates were so fierce and counterproductive that Himmler (SS highest authority) himself had to back off the Ministry of Agriculture.

 

There was no religious persecution in that time.

 

The Nazis began their boycotting of Jewish owned shops and businesses in 1933 . 

   Jews were removed from public office and the civil service, Jewish Lawyers and Teacher were all sacked .

   There WAS Religious persecution of Jews in Germany  at that time 

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

Well, the announcement of the collaboration between the German Zionist movement and the Nazi party was announced in "der Angriff", a journal under control of nobody less than Joseph Goebbels.

 

The German Ministry of Agriculture was against the decision of the Nazi leadership to provide the German Jews an education certificate of compliancy from the Ministry of Agriculture. The debates were so fierce and counterproductive that Himmler (SS highest authority) himself had to back off the Ministry of Agriculture.

 

There was no religious persecution in that time.

 

Something's very fishy about your post.

What time exactly was there no persecution?

 

 

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/nuremberg-laws

 

 

Two distinct laws passed in Nazi Germany in September 1935 are known collectively as the Nuremberg Laws: the Reich Citizenship Law and the Law for the Protection of German Blood and German Honor. These laws embodied many of the racial theories underpinning Nazi ideology. They would provide the legal framework for the systematic persecution of Jews in Germany.

Adolf Hitler announced the Nuremberg Laws on September 15, 1935. Germany’s parliament (the Reichstag), then made up entirely of Nazi representatives, passed the laws. Antisemitism was of central importance to the Nazi Party, so Hitler had called parliament into a special session at the annual Nazi Party rally in Nuremberg, Germany.

[Jingthing]

15 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

The Nazis began their boycotting of Jewish owned shops and businesses in 1933 . 

   Jews were removed from public office and the civil service, Jewish Lawyers and Teacher were all sacked .

   There WAS Religious persecution of Jews in Germany  at that time 

Exactly 

Thorgal's rhetoric is classic Nazi apologist type stuff.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Jingthing

[Thorgal]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Exactly 

Thorgal's rhetoric is classic Nazi apologist rhetoric.

Theodore Herzl wrote from 1885 till 1904 some +/- 2000 pages of his findings and inspirations in booklets.

In one of these booklet he mentions that antisemitism will help create the State of Israel...

 

Explaining historical facts doesn't make me a revisionist, a holocaust denier, a nazi, etc...

[Thorgal]

18 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Something's very fishy about your post.

What time exactly was there no persecution?

 

 

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/nuremberg-laws

 

 

Two distinct laws passed in Nazi Germany in September 1935 are known collectively as the Nuremberg Laws: the Reich Citizenship Law and the Law for the Protection of German Blood and German Honor. These laws embodied many of the racial theories underpinning Nazi ideology. They would provide the legal framework for the systematic persecution of Jews in Germany.

Adolf Hitler announced the Nuremberg Laws on September 15, 1935. Germany’s parliament (the Reichstag), then made up entirely of Nazi representatives, passed the laws. Antisemitism was of central importance to the Nazi Party, so Hitler had called parliament into a special session at the annual Nazi Party rally in Nuremberg, Germany.

In one of the correspondence between the German Zionist movement and the Nazi party in 1933 (so during the persecution) the German Jewish leadership declared that they understood the Nazi racial supremacist motives of the Nazi party.

 

Furthermore the German Jewish leadership communicated to the Nazi party also their own wish and own importance to forbid mixed marriages between Jews and non-Jews. 

[Nick Carter icp]

6 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

Theodore Herzl wrote from 1885 till 1904 some +/- 2000 pages of his findings and inspirations in booklets.

In one of these booklet he mentions that antisemitism will help create the State of Israel...

 

Explaining historical facts doesn't make me a revisionist, a holocaust denier, a nazi, etc...

It was your "facts" which suggested that Jews were living happily and contentedly in pre WW2 Nazi Germany with nothing untoward going on and for no reason at all, all the Jews moved to Palestine and World Jews declared war on poor little innocent Nazi Germany . 

   Like, making the suggestion that it was Jews who caused WW2 and also the Holocaust which led to the claims that you were a revisionist .

   You added some more real "facts" to make the claim that your previous unactual  "facts" were actual facts 

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

Theodore Herzl wrote from 1885 till 1904 some +/- 2000 pages of his findings and inspirations in booklets.

In one of these booklet he mentions that antisemitism will help create the State of Israel...

 

Explaining historical facts doesn't make me a revisionist, a holocaust denier, a nazi, etc...

Again what date were you talking about before that there was no persecution?

Interesting that you didn't answer that.

 

As far as the origin of Zionism it's no secret the motivation was the experience of Jews in the diaspora for thousands of years. Waves of pogroms, mass executions, expulsions, inquisitions not to mention restrictions of movement, professions, etc.

So of course antisemitism was the reason that political Zionists believed a Jewish nation state was the answer to finally have a safe haven against persecution. 

You can agree or not.

It was a slow growing movement but obviously it succeeded in the founding  of Israel.

[Jingthing]

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

It was your "facts" which suggested that Jews were living happily and contentedly in pre WW2 Nazi Germany with nothing untoward going on and for no reason at all, all the Jews moved to Palestine and World Jews declared war on poor little innocent Nazi Germany . 

   Like, making the suggestion that it was Jews who caused WW2 and also the Holocaust which led to the claims that you were a revisionist .

   You added some more real "facts" to make the claim that your previous unactual  "facts" were actual facts 

Exactly  You can find the exact same talking points all over the Nazi areas of the internet. They don't quit 

[Thorgal]

47 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

There was no religious persecution in that time.

 

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Again what date were you talking about before that there was no persecution?

Interesting that you didn't answer that.

 

As far as the origin of Zionism it's no secret the motivation was the experience of Jews in the diaspora for thousands of years. Waves of pogroms, mass executions, expulsions, inquisitions not to mention restrictions of movement, professions, etc.

So of course antisemitism was the reason that political Zionists believed a Jewish nation state was the answer to finally have a safe haven against persecution. 

You can agree or not.

It was a slow growing movement but obviously it succeeded in the founding  of Israel.

My quote was :

 

"There was no religious persecution in that time."

 

This quote is in relation with the OP that explains that Abbas declared that the Holocaust didn't start for religious motives.

 

Assuming that I've said that there were no persecutions to Jews in that time in Germany is wrong.

Assuming that the Nazi party didn't work together with the German Zionist movement is wrong.

Assuming that the Nazi party targeted only religious Jews is wrong.

Assuming that I'm a revisionist, Nazi, and/or Holocaust denier is wrong.

 

I continue to provide historical facts, I'm still on topic and I'm posting non-personal content.

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

My quote was :

 

"There was no religious persecution in that time."

 

This quote is in relation with the OP that explains that Abbas declared that the Holocaust didn't start for religious motives.

 

Assuming that I've said that there were no persecutions to Jews in that time in Germany is wrong.

Assuming that the Nazi party didn't work together with the German Zionist movement is wrong.

Assuming that the Nazi party targeted only religious Jews is wrong.

Assuming that I'm a revisionist, Nazi, and/or Holocaust denier is wrong.

 

I continue to provide historical facts, I'm still on topic and I'm posting non-personal content.

So Jews were no persecuted for practising Judaism, they were persecuted   because they were Jews ?

   You are just trying to make excuses . 

Neo Nazis state that Zionists worked together with the Nazis to make it appear that Zionists participated in the persecution of Jews , but it was the Zionists who tried to get Jews out of Germany 

[Thorgal]

4 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

So Jews were no persecuted for practising Judaism, they were persecuted   because they were Jews ?

   You are just trying to make excuses . 

Neo Nazis state that Zionists worked together with the Nazis to make it appear that Zionists participated in the persecution of Jews , but it was the Zionists who tried to get Jews out of Germany 

During the Nazi occupation in France the French government agreed for collaboration with the Nazi's to persecute the German and Polish refugee Jews in France. 

 

The French Jewish organization UJIF worked together in that collaboration with the Nazi's to denounce German and Polish refugee hidden Jews in France so that they won't be persecuted themselves by the Nazi's.