Isaan Crises?

[SNGLIFE]

I am hearing directly from the in-laws gossip about this person or that person here and there (and pretty much everywhere in Isaan) are in a desperate situation. The rainfall has not been enough to grow proper crops this year and a lot of families and entire villages have not had work most of the year. The lasses are leaving for Pattaya and the lads are scrounging for contruction work and odd jobs in Bangkok. Those who have land that isn't already re-mortgaged to the hilt are getting in way over their heads with unscrupulous lending practitioners. Those who have re-mortgage already are far behind in payments and there are lots of foreclosures.

The farmers and businesses that have been able to weather the storm thus far are still unable to make a profit because of the direct and domino affect of super-expensive (by Thai standards) fuel costs. There are even grumblings of Thais working for THB 120-150 per day getting replaced by Lao or Khmer workers who will do the same work for THB 80 per day. The economic difficulties of those countries are pushing more over the borders.

Sounds pretty grim as I hear it directly from the in-laws and other Thai friends in Isaan. Anyone on the ground (in Isaan only, please) care to comment?

[Totster]

Moved to Isaan forum

Totster

[SNGLIFE]

Thanks! Caught the placement error after posting and was tryin to figure out how to move it. You are on the ball!

[macb]

Singelife:

Well I just spent about 30 mins answering your Topic then pressed the wrong button and lost it all mmmmmmm

Well just have to start again and watch where my fingers go:

I base my input on life in my and surrounding villages :

Most folks here seem to be busy all the time You have to get into the culture and understand it lifestyle is very simple for the villagers, they dont place values the same as us Farangs, as long as there is food (and they live a lot off the land) and a few bht and a roof over there head that's it :

I never see miserable Thai in the village they always have a smile and good morning or Sawadee :

THis year people had there land raised and houses raised raising a house costs about 6000 bht :

The fields are all planted and the rice is growing so now if we get the occasional rains for the land all will be okay: When the rice harvest has finished (Family members return home at this time to help) they go back to work normally Bkk, in our area a lot are on the Big 'C' and Makro sites working in Buriram .

There are the lao khoa drinkers and Gamblers but that applies anywhere in the world :

I don't know of any lasses going to Pattaya from our surrounding villages therre are some that are already there (Can you blame them for wanting to have what they see other Farangs offering)

There values are different to ours: Houses not top of the list. Land Cattle Family Food important:

As for money the Government gives families 20000 bht a year but they have to pay it back then they take it again, there life seems to revolve around debt, this applies to a lot but not all.

So I dont see it as bleak nor would they its been like this for years and will carry on like this for many more, but at trhe end of the day they are happy with what they have

As for the Rice harvest well lets see whether poor yield or not, In the UK farmers complain all the time to much rain not enouigh rain to much sun not enough sun

[pnustedt]

I live in Sisaket and don't see the desperation the OP describes.

The rains started quite early this year and have been OK since, rice is growing well and, if it continues, should be a bumper harvest. As long as we don't get a repeat of last years' floods. A problem could be the price of rice but will have to wait and see.

There does not seem to be a lot of foreclosed land for sale at the moment - but most land comes up for sale after the harvest - December.

I understand that there has been an influx of II's from neighbouring countries to the area, but this does happen from time to time.

Fuel costs are a problem and some small farmers are resorting to using buffalo for ploughing etc.

Many Issan people work in the main cities, and always have done, I don't think this has changed much.

I wonder if the OP's in-laws are buttering him up for some assistance?

Edited July 16, 2007 by pnustedt

[toptuan]

Live in the very heart of Isaan, about an hour from Khon Kaen. I am in close touch with the local farmers and workers. No problems here. The rice fields are a beautiful deep green and seem to be growing like wildfire.

[Gimbo]

My wife in the Northern half of Buriram had to re-plant a couple of rice paddies that did not have enough water, but it was no big deal. She planted to early and the rain stopped for a while, but then they had the much needed "big rain" and everything was fine.

Judging by the number of empty houses in the village, there is a lot of people working elsewhere, and nobody is having trouble finding a job. There is a couple of the girls in the village working in the bars of a certain seaside resort. As far as I know, nobody in the family is in huge debts or are in any kind of severe financial trouble. But then all able bodied hands are working, either on the farm or in cities.

[Aujuba]

Well, in the northern part of Surin, Rattanaburi area, I guess there hasn't been much rain from what I hear. The extra work sewing coming out of BKK has gone down. The paper the other day said that Thailand could lose a lot of textile jobs (300,000)due to the value of the baht. You must know that a heck of a lot of people work in that industry including many from Esarn.

I won't say things are bad but they sure aren't wonderful.

[SNGLIFE]

Thanks for the replies, all. Keep them coming.

My extended family lives in the Sakhon Nakhon area. Most are field hands. My wife, daughter, and I have a couple of houses in/near Udon but we have been in the States for coming up on a year soon; and we will return next year. I've lived in Thailand for years (long enough to speak Thai semi-fluently and understand Isaan language to a respectable degree if that is any measure). Just background for some who may be wondering.

No, the inlaws are not buttering me up for a hit - we are all well above that in our family relationships, thank you. My brother in-law is working contruction in Bangkok, supporting his wife on his own earnings, and is proud to be able to do so. He doles out the THB 5-8k we send each month to whomever really needs it, and banks whatever is left over. He makes a baht scream "oi!".

(No one has ever tried to take advantage of us. Likewise, no one in my family will ever be without the necessities so long as I am alive, I hope. Everyone is as happy as any normally dysfunctional family can be! )

Again, keep the comments to the original post coming. Western locals can often give a more balanced perspective as we are often more aware of the external forces driving change and tend to have broader perspective.

Edited July 16, 2007 by SNGLIFE

[farangconnection]

I think we had more rain in Isaan in May and June, than in the previous four years put together.

[citizen33]

I think we had more rain in Isaan in May and June, than in the previous four years put together.

The situation seems better in the south than in central Isaan. In the Mahasarakham/Kalasin area there has been little rain and people are getting worried. Parts of Kalasin usually have floods at this time of year but not this year.

[vision]

As I understand it (and that is not very well) but wasn't the rice just planted last few weeks? I think the jusry has just gone intodeliberations on that one and it could be a long time till we have a verdict?

[Mid]

FWIW ,

the falangs here are painting a rosier pic than the better 1/2 .

[Gary A]

In our area south of Loei, we have a bad omen. A small waterfall that normally flows 365 days a year has quit flowing. We had a good start to the rainy season and the rice looks good BUT it appears that the ground water has dropped more than normal for this time of year. What does this mean? No one knows for sure but everyone is nervous about their rice crops.

[LoveDaBlues]

We planted 3 rai in rice on July 5. It rained a little the next day but then NO RAIN since then. bummer

Land is about 6.5 kilometers from Udon Thani airport going towards Nong Bua Lam Phu.

As far as people in financial trouble in/around my wife's village they are......and not just recently. Some have lost homes to local loan sharks (5% per month). Many, many families in the 'boonies' of Issan are deep in debt. I think some farang don't get the whole story when it comes to Thai financial problems.

[think_too_mut]

Western locals can often give a more balanced perspective as we are often more aware of the external forces driving change and tend to have broader perspective.

Sure, if their read/write/comprehension skills were at a par in their home countries.

[Aujuba]

Talked to wife and she said that Rattanaburi has has rain for the last two nights so there is hope. In Rangsit, we got wailed last night. The funny thing is when I look at the satellite pics they rarely show much that looks like rain clouds over central and northeastern Thailand. But hey there is a cloud over nongkai at the moment.

These links for weather maps might be interesting to you.

Weather.com sat for S.E.Asia

Intellicast sat for S.E.Asia

I used to use CNN but they wouldn't update Asia for the month of June so I switch to these. The weather.com one seems to have the best view.

[dereklev]

As for money the Government gives families 20000 bht a year but they have to pay it back then they take it again, there life seems to revolve around debt, this applies to a lot but not all.

I am pretty sure that one of the first things the Military Government did was to revoke this practice.

I know for sure that a month or so after the coup the locals were running around like "Blue Ass'd Flies" desperately trying to get the money to pay back the loans.

I agree with farangconnection thet May and June were very good months for rainfall. So good in fact that in some parts were I live (40kms North of Korat) they are still waiting to plant rice. There is just too much water in the fields.

Many of the young from our village work in BKK and others have been lucky enough to get jobs in the Electronics factories around Korat.

Not sure about any girls working in Pattaya but I do sometimes run into one or two on my rare visits to the Karaoke bars in Korat........

[macb]

As for money the Government gives families 20000 bht a year but they have to pay it back then they take it again, there life seems to revolve around debt, this applies to a lot but not all.

I am pretty sure that one of the first things the Military Government did was to revoke this practice.

I know for sure that a month or so after the coup the locals were running around like "Blue Ass'd Flies" desperately trying to get the money to pay back the loans.

I agree with farangconnection thet May and June were very good months for rainfall. So good in fact that in some parts were I live (40kms North of Korat) they are still waiting to plant rice. There is just too much water in the fields.

Many of the young from our village work in BKK and others have been lucky enough to get jobs in the Electronics factories around Korat.

Not sure about any girls working in Pattaya but I do sometimes run into one or two on my rare visits to the Karaoke bars in Korat........

I have just asked my wife about this and she tells me that the loan procedure is still in force....... Each household is allowed up to 30000 bht they dont have to drawer it all it can be in stages or if they a only want a percentage this is okay

[dereklev]

As for money the Government gives families 20000 bht a year but they have to pay it back then they take it again, there life seems to revolve around debt, this applies to a lot but not all.

I am pretty sure that one of the first things the Military Government did was to revoke this practice.

I know for sure that a month or so after the coup the locals were running around like "Blue Ass'd Flies" desperately trying to get the money to pay back the loans.

I agree with farangconnection thet May and June were very good months for rainfall. So good in fact that in some parts were I live (40kms North of Korat) they are still waiting to plant rice. There is just too much water in the fields.

Many of the young from our village work in BKK and others have been lucky enough to get jobs in the Electronics factories around Korat.

Not sure about any girls working in Pattaya but I do sometimes run into one or two on my rare visits to the Karaoke bars in Korat........

I have just asked my wife about this and she tells me that the loan procedure is still in force....... Each household is allowed up to 30000 bht they dont have to drawer it all it can be in stages or if they a only want a percentage this is okay

OK thanks macb I stand corrected.

However I am sure that here the locals had to repay the loan soon after the coup.

Perhaps the Junta, oops CNS made their own version of this loan available soon after.

[4u2mad]

<br />Live in the very heart of Isaan, about an hour from Khon Kaen. I am in close touch with the local farmers and workers. No problems here. The rice fields are a beautiful deep green and seem to be growing like wildfire.<br />

<br /><br /><br />hello toptuan, i will be living in kranuan from october, maybe we will be neighbours?

[tsocr]

The village I am located in is north of Loei near the Mekong. Some of the farmers have land in the mountains and the rain this year has not ben good. Many people in this village are leaving to try and make any money then can to sustain a bad year. My GF family is ok but I do see some harder times for them later this year. No different than in the states when the farmers have a bad season. The only difference is they can make some of it up by the raising prices when they sell. It is the families that plant only for sustainment (share croppers) for a year that really have a hard time.

tsocr

[Gary A]

We had good rains in May and early June. All the ponds and irrigation projects were filled. Late June and so far this month NO rain. My only farang neighbor said that in the past ten years he has never seen so much rice planted locally. I have been here for only three years and I agree that there is a LOT of rice planted. One of the main irrigation ponds near our one 10 rai plot has now been pumped completely empty. If there is no rain in the next month or so the farmers here will suffer badly.

[RayBan]

Whether there is too much rain or not enough, or whether the harvest is good or not so good, for sure the real crises is going to come this year when they go to sell the rice. The baht strength is spiralling so much in strength, especially against the US$, that there will I would think be a very large difference in profits in comparison to last year.

As I write this the baht against the dollar on the international markets has just gone below the 30 barrier and is trading at 29.9 to the US$.

Which country is one of the major importers of Thai rice..........the US of course...........so watch out at harvest time, the situation could become critical if this continues.

[macb]

Just checked the Currency rates on Moneycorp :

GPB-bht 68.751 weakened against the pound

$ -bht 33.551 slight improvement

[ray23]

Udon area a couple of good rains this year so far, nothing like the past four years, the reseviors are all down any where you go in the immediate area. Has the rice got enough I have no idea, not a farmer.

Have work not have work, I don't know. I do know fuel prices have not helped anyone. Since crops are no grown yet and sale prices not established it remains to be seen, what the current exchange rate is going to do to farmers, in the near future.

The last articles I saw about the Factory in Bangkok that walked away from 5000 workers, then opened back up agian will probably reclose this week, cause they didn't get the financial help that was supposedly offered. Lots of promises made good press, but it appears nothing delivered. I think we will see the next chapter on that tomorrow

Based on all the articles about exporters I would say it doesn't look good.

But none of this has trickled down enough to see the true effect.

I also wonder what we get as true picture when talking with Thai's whose major concern is saving face

Edited July 19, 2007 by ray23

[ray23]

Well In one wek the smoke cleared the mirror broke and the reality is:

"Thai Silp to be shut down Friday

Crisis-hit Thai Silp South East Asia Import Export Co Ltd has informed him of the decision to shut down the factory on Friday, Labour Minister Apai Chandanachulaka said Thursday. He said that the shutdown would be effective on August 7.

"The company has the rights to discontinue the business. The government will then step in to ensure that employees receive legal compensations as well as relocating them to new plants. I believe that all 4,400 workers could have new jobs," he said.

He added that the government would not allocate any financial assistance to the company.

Thai Silp had earlier closed its business abruptly last week but decided to reopen the following day after receiving financial backing from the Thai Textile Institute.

It reinstate all of the nearly 5,000-strong workforce it laid off after its sudden closure on Wednesday.

The sudden closure was much publicised as some 200 factory workers protested and blocked traffic outside Samut Prakan City Hall against the closure.

The Industry Ministry has asked the institute to assess the health of the entire textile industry following Thai Silp's closure citing problems caused by the appreciation of the baht.

However the company that made sportswear for foreign markets decided to terminate the business on Friday after banks refused to give more lending."

[RayBan]

Just checked the Currency rates on Moneycorp :

GPB-bht 68.751 weakened against the pound

$ -bht 33.551 slight improvement

Yo Mac,

The rates you indicate are what you will get in a bank or exchange house INSIDE Thailand. If you go and exchange a US$ anywhere else in the world for Thai baht, the current rate is 29.85 to the $ and GBP is at 61.62, as of 1500GMT.

Now it is fine if you are selling rice in Thailand, but if you sell rice to the US for instance, you will get this international rate for your US$, not the internal Thai rate, thus as Ray23 mentioned....major companies in Thailand are going to the wall, as payment for their exports they are receiving this international rate.

Fingers crossed that things turn around..........all the best........RayBan

[Texpat]

Most thais would NEVER let on that they're hurting financially -- even to family -- especially to a farang.

Banks here lend money (for new trucks or home improvement) to people that earn squat, have zilch, and stand little chance of paying it off.

In Nong Khai we had a rainy early June and then sporadic since then. Whopper of a rain storm tonight though.

[SNGLIFE]

I have been following up including via watching Thai TV news myself along with the Mrs. (thanks to www.jumptv.com) and various Thai language websites and chat rooms.

There are a LOT of Thais experiencing hard times (as in much harder than past years). You are correct that most Thais are not going to admit to a farang what is really going on. They would feel embarrassed. So, most of you may not be getting the real story unless you can check other sources.

I am more convinced after my research that what I posted originally (after casual chats with the Mrs., family, and friends) is how it really is in the lives of a lot more (not ALL) of the Isaan folks. Most Thais gossip is about the current hard times and the government faults.

Interesting excerpt article in the Pattaya Mail this week titled "Complaints of lewd behavior in public cannot stem tide of prostitution":

"During an inspection by media reporters on July 14 there we saw an estimated 400 to 500 girls sitting along the beachfront offering their services to the public. "

That are a LOT more freelancers than there are at the peak of the tourist season! That says a lot. It means they are not needed back home because there is not enough farming to do now and not enough other ways to make a baht. The "regular" seasonal girls are either back early or (worse, and more likely given that they are working the beach) there's gonna be a helluva lot more of them come Oct/Nov...

That jives with gossip I am hearing about so-and-so's daughter, teacher, etc. here and there leaving to "work" in Pattaya.