Anyone Heard Of This

[CarlBkk]

Damian is dead right. The unfair fight advantage IS more common in Asia and therefore IS a cultural thing. It can be regularly seen in low-end Thai nightspots around Bangkok, slum areas and definitely Ratchada soi 4 every single weekend (I live opposite). It didn't used to be like that, but that soi has become a haven for the younger bad boys. Despite a permanent police presence at the end of the soi, it doesn't deter it...but at least it contains it.

Just the last time I was there a couple of weeks ago a youngish guy was walking with 2 girls and a group of 6 came up behind him, air-kicked him in the back to knock him off balance, punched him down and laid into him for 15 seconds. May not sound a long time, but it seemed like it was. They didn't care who was around. They looked at ease as if it was nothing out of the norm. The guy was broken and unconscious in 5 seconds of kicking to the head. Police were there, stopped a couple of them...the others went on bikes. By the time I walked to the end of the soi another kicking was just finished in the middle of Ratchada with 5 tattooed moto-thugs against what looked like 2 students. Security just followed them, not wanting to fight themselves.

Seen similar (but larger scale) things with the Viet community in Melbourne, Chinese in London, Chinese in Vancouver. Have yet to commonly see the same ratios and techniques outside the Asian community, although reports would suggest that Turkish/Kurds opt for it. In Thailand it's a well-known technique referred to as "maa moo" (pack of dogs). I suggest non-believers and defenders of "all cultures use violence in the same way in equal doses" to discuss this with locals.

[Oliver Reed]

Has anyone heard anything about this.

In cannot find anything on the net about it, but apparently is hot news on TV overthere in Thailand. Have no futher details at present but am still trying find some info

Lets all hope it was Joey Barton on the receiving end

[gburns57au]

Colpyat, I had forgotten your work with the EMT...as such you would see the results of violence more than most. I see similar in my line of work except that I have to deal with the violence as it happens (I am not in the courts now) and we deal with it by strength in numbers...we will often use 6 or more to deal with a single person situation, which would double within minutes of the situation occurring. I have been involved with 5 situations in a single day before, so I am no stranger to violence.

As I have said before, I am not a stay at home in Thailand when I go there and I am not shy at going to areas such as you have mentioned, I rely on my assessment of an area as to how I act and to whether I stay in an area or not....one of the few times I felt uncomfortable in a place was at a fairly well known English area in Pattaya where an admitted thug who had just been released from the police lock up was celebrating...by buying rounds for everyone. It felt like a nasty situation so I left, and still had to explain to a very tired and very drunk man mountain why I wouldnt stay and appreciate his generosity.

In 14 years of travel to Thailand, I have not seen any of this sort of violence we have discussed here, I have read about it of course, but not to the extent I have read or heard about it in Western Countries, the US and the UK in particular.

So from your experience you have seen a lot of it in Thailand....from my experience I havent. Neither is wrong in that regard. My gripe is that people here on Tv have said it happens all the time whereas in their country it doesnt...I still and will always disagree with that...And I will disagree that it is more prevalent in Thailand than other non Asian places...where ever you go nowadays you will see mob violence because that is the way the world has become...most kids today, especially as mentioned before, from a lower socio-economic background hunt in packs because that is how they survive. It is not a new thing, the Mafia, street gangs, Yakuza etc... have been doing it for years. It is a basis of war...the biggest and best equipped armies will inflict more damage on a smaller and less equipped enemy. I believe that the US call it "Shock and Awe" now...but it is still "Might is Right" if you ask me.

It is not cultural at all, it is a learnt defense and/or aggressive strategy. Not taught in schools or by parents, but by what they see and read in the world today. The other advantage in attacking in numbers is that you can inflict more damage and run less risk of getting caught, it is harder for the Police to detain 30 people than 2 people.

Anyway I digress, the truth is that we will see an increase in this type of behaviour all over the world, especially in the younger generations, and not just in Thailand but all over the world. To those who live in Thailand you will see it because you live there....you dont see it in your home countries because you dont live there and it rarely makes the news in Thailand.

Edited July 22, 2007 by gburns57au

[scousemouse]

Colpyat, I had forgotten your work with the EMT...as such you would see the results of violence more than most. I see similar in my line of work except that I have to deal with the violence as it happens (I am not in the courts now) and we deal with it by strength in numbers...we will often use 6 or more to deal with a single person situation, which would double within minutes of the situation occurring. I have been involved with 5 situations in a single day before, so I am no stranger to violence.

As I have said before, I am not a stay at home in Thailand when I go there and I am not shy at going to areas such as you have mentioned, I rely on my assessment of an area as to how I act and to whether I stay in an area or not....one of the few times I felt uncomfortable in a place was at a fairly well known English area in Pattaya where an admitted thug who had just been released from the police lock up was celebrating...by buying rounds for everyone. It felt like a nasty situation so I left, and still had to explain to a very tired and very drunk man mountain why I wouldnt stay and appreciate his generosity.

In 14 years of travel to Thailand, I have not seen any of this sort of violence we have discussed here, I have read about it of course, but not to the extent I have read or heard about it in Western Countries, the US and the UK in particular.

So from your experience you have seen a lot of it in Thailand....from my experience I havent. Neither is wrong in that regard. My gripe is that people here on Tv have said it happens all the time whereas in their country it doesnt...I still and will always disagree with that...And I will disagree that it is more prevalent in Thailand than other non Asian places...where ever you go nowadays you will see mob violence because that is the way the world has become...most kids today, especially as mentioned before, from a lower socio-economic background hunt in packs because that is how they survive. It is not a new thing, the Mafia, street gangs, Yakuza etc... have been doing it for years. It is a basis of war...the biggest and best equipped armies will inflict more damage on a smaller and less equipped enemy. I believe that the US call it "Shock and Awe" now...but it is still "Might is Right" if you ask me.

It is not cultural at all, it is a learnt defense and/or aggressive strategy. Not taught in schools or by parents, but by what they see and read in the world today. The other advantage in attacking in numbers is that you can inflict more damage and run less risk of getting caught, it is harder for the Police to detain 30 people than 2 people.

Anyway I digress, the truth is that we will see an increase in this type of behaviour all over the world, especially in the younger generations, and not just in Thailand but all over the world. To those who live in Thailand you will see it because you live there....you dont see it in your home countries because you dont live there and it rarely makes the news in Thailand.

Accurate post gburns57au .

regards sm.

[kat]

guess what the results will be for an experiment lets say getting;

100 china men walking through the "dodgiest areas" in the US alone and see how many get out alive,

100 farangs again walking through the "dodgiest areas"(like colpyat mentioned) in thailand alone and see how many get out alive;

What is your guess, ColPyat?

Actually, that's a good example and I'm glad you brought it up. I was born and raised in the "dodgiest" areas of the U.S., which at times topped the list of the most notorious crime-ridden areas. There have always been Chinese merchants in these areas, because small family-owned Chinese restaurants were the only ones to do business there. They were not singled out for being Chinese, but rather as small business owners and targets for potential robberies, as was everyone else, including Puerto-Rican owned grocery stores (bodegas). These small Chinese restaurants also deliver, and so Chinese delivery guys have been working these areas and knocking on people's doors in these areas for decades now. In all these years, I know of one terrible incident against a Chinese delivery guy by a bunch of stupid kids.

Let's examine this further. I am of mixed-race heritage, look white to most people, am female, and grew up in the "worst" or most crime-ridden areas of the Country, including public schools, public transportation, and public housing, during the height of some of the worst times in New York - the 1980s. I know children that have died riding on top of elevators, and teenagers who have been shot. The teenagers were involved in drug or gang activity, usually related to drug turf. It is very specific. The Chinese had to stay out of the way like the rest of us.

guess what the results will be for an experiment lets say getting;

100 china men walking through the "dodgiest areas" in the US alone and see how many get out alive,

100 farangs again walking through the "dodgiest areas"(like colpyat mentioned) in thailand alone and see how many get out alive;

What is your guess, ColPyat?

It all depends on what you want to prove.

If you want to prove that racially inspired violence in the US is higher than in Thailand, than i fear that you will be successful with your "experiment". Thailand is though catching up. But most likely in both countries 100% of the participants of that experiment will come out alive.

Unless if we are talking about the really dodgiest areas in Thailand, that being the red zones of the three southern provinces - i fear that things might be a bit different if some walkabout there is attempted by anyone.

Anyhow, it just hypothetical and speculation. I personally prefer to look at the role of violence as a whole in cultural norms.

I do hesitate though to bring up the US as an example for the west. The US is maybe the most violence prone society of western civilization, and being European, i resent being put into the same box. There are huge differences.

I think I'm qualified to answer this, because I am from the inner-city (ghetto) in the states, I have lived in Europe, and I've lived in Asia.

Racially-motivated violence is higher because quite simply, it is a multi-cultural society with more races and cultures sharing the pie. I know of nowhere else in the West where this is not an issue right now. I agree that the U.S. figures highest on the list, because of examples stated above. However, I think the violence compared to European cities is overstated. At a glance - and statistically - it is correct, but that just proves the need for more qualitative analysis.

Are European cities really less violent in terms of behavior, or is it just that they don't have the guns? Based on what I've been seeing, I would argue that it is the latter. America has a problem with gun control and gun law, and that is what DIFFERENTIATES the violence as far as I'm concerned.

Colpyat, I had forgotten your work with the EMT...as such you would see the results of violence more than most. I see similar in my line of work except that I have to deal with the violence as it happens (I am not in the courts now) and we deal with it by strength in numbers...we will often use 6 or more to deal with a single person situation, which would double within minutes of the situation occurring. I have been involved with 5 situations in a single day before, so I am no stranger to violence.

As I have said before, I am not a stay at home in Thailand when I go there and I am not shy at going to areas such as you have mentioned, I rely on my assessment of an area as to how I act and to whether I stay in an area or not....one of the few times I felt uncomfortable in a place was at a fairly well known English area in Pattaya where an admitted thug who had just been released from the police lock up was celebrating...by buying rounds for everyone. It felt like a nasty situation so I left, and still had to explain to a very tired and very drunk man mountain why I wouldnt stay and appreciate his generosity.

In 14 years of travel to Thailand, I have not seen any of this sort of violence we have discussed here, I have read about it of course, but not to the extent I have read or heard about it in Western Countries, the US and the UK in particular.

So from your experience you have seen a lot of it in Thailand....from my experience I havent. Neither is wrong in that regard. My gripe is that people here on Tv have said it happens all the time whereas in their country it doesnt...I still and will always disagree with that...And I will disagree that it is more prevalent in Thailand than other non Asian places...where ever you go nowadays you will see mob violence because that is the way the world has become...most kids today, especially as mentioned before, from a lower socio-economic background hunt in packs because that is how they survive. It is not a new thing, the Mafia, street gangs, Yakuza etc... have been doing it for years. It is a basis of war...the biggest and best equipped armies will inflict more damage on a smaller and less equipped enemy. I believe that the US call it "Shock and Awe" now...but it is still "Might is Right" if you ask me.

It is not cultural at all, it is a learnt defense and/or aggressive strategy. Not taught in schools or by parents, but by what they see and read in the world today. The other advantage in attacking in numbers is that you can inflict more damage and run less risk of getting caught, it is harder for the Police to detain 30 people than 2 people.

Anyway I digress, the truth is that we will see an increase in this type of behaviour all over the world, especially in the younger generations, and not just in Thailand but all over the world. To those who live in Thailand you will see it because you live there....you dont see it in your home countries because you dont live there and it rarely makes the news in Thailand.

I don't want to get into a long discussion here, and I don't mean to diminish your experience in Thailand, but no matter how you slice it is very different to be a visitor no matter how many multiple times, than it is to live in a place.

Also, you example of America at war is not quite equal to comparing pervasive violence at every level throughout society. To put your war example "shock and awe" into perspective, you should compare America to every other European or Asian country at war at the height of their dominance. Not much different.

[uptou]

in my opinion its hard to get an accurate picture of how violent thailand is from posters here because i would be very surprised whether they could come to an opinion on this subject without taking into account their own,fear,paranoia (heightened by isolation,feelings of being alone),personal experience (good,bad),predjudice,anxiety,ignorance......the list goes on.

also statistics on this subject don't really mean alot to me because of, a)how was the gathering of these statistics carried out,b)do they have an agenda,c)when were the violent acts carried out,eg is alchohol/drugs a driving factor.

[kat]

Wow, so you just discounted research or statistical analysis, empirical analysis, personal observation, and frequency of events all in one.

What exactly would you need to get a fair view then, the Ministry of Culture or someone who lives outside the country? Just curious.

[meom]

For a fair view one only have to take a look at Muay Thai, the national sport which seems a bit more violent than soccer or even american football. The majority of thais love it so I guess in a way they're more used to beatings and such.

Edited July 22, 2007 by meom

[uptou]

Wow, so you just discounted research or statistical analysis, empirical analysis, personal observation, and frequency of events all in one.

What exactly would you need to get a fair view then, the Ministry of Culture or someone who lives outside the country? Just curious.

my point is that given that we are all largely inclined to selfish behaviour,we,on the whole,come to an opinion about certain aspects of thailand due to personal experience in the country which may or may not be an accurate picture as a whole.for instance when i travelled in cambodia i met an english couple that got robbed at knife point in p penh,& they absolutely hated that country after staying a couple of weeks,where as i had no problems,& left without any real negative thoughts,even though i was aware of the history.a bit like your wanting to get revenge at the people in indonesia.maybe your opinion of that country was different at that time?

[uptou]

For a fair view one only have to take a look at Muay Thai, the national sport which seems a bit more violent than soccer or even american football. The majority of thais love it so I guess in a way they're more used to beatings and such.

i noticed on the news two days ago that cage fighting is getting very very popular in the west.also i would say rugby league,or aussie rules is pretty rough.

[meom]

True but unlike Thailand it's still a minority that's involved in cage fighting and such. I would not consider Aussie rules to be in the same leaque as Muay Thai though.

[kat]

Wow, so you just discounted research or statistical analysis, empirical analysis, personal observation, and frequency of events all in one.

What exactly would you need to get a fair view then, the Ministry of Culture or someone who lives outside the country? Just curious.

my point is that given that we are all largely inclined to selfish behaviour,we,on the whole,come to an opinion about certain aspects of thailand due to personal experience in the country which may or may not be an accurate picture as a whole.for instance when i travelled in cambodia i met an english couple that got robbed at knife point in p penh,& they absolutely hated that country after staying a couple of weeks,where as i had no problems,& left without any real negative thoughts,even though i was aware of the history.a bit like your wanting to get revenge at the people in indonesia.maybe your opinion of that country was different at that time?

No, I base my analyses on way more than just one or even a few personal experiences. I never said I wanted to get revenge on the people of Indonesia, but rather the pickpocket gang that targeted and robbed me. There are so many other elements that go into it as well: the history of governance, the strength or development of institutions, such as the police, economics, and in the case of Indonesia, the market crash in the 1990s which has resulted in a huge spike of pickpocket gangs with more developed tactics and allies, etc. I could tell you more of the same about Cambodia, but in the context of their specific history. I could also point you to some links that prove that gang rape in Cambodia is viewed as a new sport by young, upwardly mobile Cambodians.

It is taking all of these elements together in a careful comparison that puts each aspect into perspective that helps you get a reliable reading of a situation or place. It's not something that can be arrived at overnight, but personal experiences and frequency can definitely alert you to a pattern worthy of further investigation.

*But, as an individual, I can tell you about my personal experience and instincts. And, after growing up in some of the worse inner-city neighborhoods in New York, after almost being kidnapped by a mafia sex ring in Amsterdam, and being stalked for awhile by a looney ex-boyfriend that went off the rails, I have never felt more unsafe for an extended period of time than I did in Indonesia and Cambodia. I travelled through Indonesia with a Japanese woman, and man, do we have some stories. I did not feel the same extreme, overt sense of insecurity in LOS, but then again, it depends on where you live in LOS. However, I learned how to stay within the envelope in LOS, but there was always some underlying sense of insecurity because I knew I was completely on my own if something ever happened, with no police or societal protection. I was assaulted in Chiang Mai, but luckily my ability or willingness to fight back aggressively caused the guy to flee. He was developmentally disabled, and I think that's why he attacked alone. If he was one of the "guys", I'm sure the outcome would've been different for me.

Indeed, when I reported it to the more "normal" Thai guys and one long-time Western expat the next day (all young and "hip" btw), they could not stifle their laughter as if I was the source of a joke for talking about a near traumatic, sexual assault. And not that it matters, but I wasn't what they would consider unattractive, considering they had just spent the last 4 days trying to chat me up.

Edited July 22, 2007 by kat

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

almost being kidnapped by a mafia sex ring in Amsterdam

<snip>

How can you be almost kidnapped?

Just curious.

[kat]

It's a long story, but in a nutshell:

answered an ad for work in a popular classified/advertisment paper (called the Vis-a-vis), while out looking for work my clueless gay male roommate took a job message of interest for me (so, he didn't read signs on the phone the way I may have), I showed up to an address under the time pressure they created, suddenly finding myself being interviewed in an empty apartment by two dubious people - one male and one female - who were obviously drugged up after about 5 minutes of observation, which, after about 15 minutes was not inference but fact, as the guy took out cocaine and started doing lines in front of me. This digressed to inappropriate questions, outright aggressive verbal intimidation, and resulted in me having to scream and pound the door until he reached up and unlocked the Dutch locks on the top and bottom of the door. The only thing that got him to do so in the first place is that I planted doubt in his mind early on that a boyfriend was waiting for me at a snackbar around the corner, and knew the address, which was a lie.

He then called my house and continued to make very scary verbal threats, I got friends involved, they went to the police, and found out there was an underground drug/sex trafficking ring kidnapping women for snuff films and othe horrible fates in the sexual slavery trade. Sadly, the kidnappings were not widely reported until I was leaving about a year later, when it was learned that a lot of women from Eastern Europe had fallen victim to it. They preyed on foreign women in the hopes that no one would know where they had gone, and didn't have firm legal rights. This was in the early 90s.

Edited July 22, 2007 by kat

[JetsetBkk]

It's a long story, but in a nutshell:

answered an ad for work in a popular classified/advertisment paper (called the Vis-a-vis), while out looking for work my clueless gay male roommate took a job message of interest for me (so, he didn't read signs on the phone the way I may have), I showed up to an address under the time pressure they created, suddenly finding myself being interviewed in an empty apartment by two dubious people - one male and one female - who were obviously drugged up after about 5 minutes of observation, which, after about 15 minutes was not inference but fact, as the guy took out cocaine and started doing lines in front of me. This digressed to inappropriate questions, outright aggressive verbal intimidation, and resulted in me having to scream and pound the door until he reached up and unlocked the Dutch locks on the top and bottom of the door. The only thing that got him to do so in the first place is that I planted doubt in his mind early on that a boyfriend was waiting for me at a snackbar around the corner, and knew the address, which was a lie.

He then called my house and continued to make very scary verbal threats, I got friends involved, they went to the police, and found out there was an underground drug/sex trafficking ring kidnapping women for snuff films and othe horrible fates in the sexual slavery trade. Sadly, the kidnappings were not widely reported until I was leaving about a year later, when it was learned that a lot of women from Eastern Europe had fallen victim to it. They preyed on foreign women in the hopes that no one would know where they had gone, and didn't have firm legal rights. This was in the early 90s.

Blimey, Kat! I can only congratulate you on getting yourself out of that situation. Well done! And this was in Amsterdam? Wow. Sorry, I'm speechless. Glad you're OK though.

[kat]

Thanks Jetset. I don't want to take this off topic, but wanted to respond to your inquiry. It seems like a long time ago now, so no worries. I had great Dutch friends there that rushed in and engulfed me in supportive actions, which made it seem so much better.

Back on point: It goes to show that my personal experiences are there, but don't overly taint my objective perspective on a place. I actually loved living in Amsterdam and was totally depressed when I went back to the states afterwards. The difference in LOS, of when I was groped or almost assaulted on the street, is that I was ridiculed by men the next day, and gently reminded by a Thai female the next day that I was probably at fault for walking home at 1 a.m.

[philliphn]

I have been reading this thread with great interest. I am 52 years old and plan on retiring in Thailand in 2 years 10 months 3 weeks time, but who's counting.

I have only spent about three months in Thailand. On three seperate occassions. I have never been assaulted myself. Though I once came close to being assaulted by a Thai male on the Sky Train. I was just riding the train with a friend of mine, who is an American, his mother is Vietnamese. Many people think that he is actually Thai. I was standing near the door. This young Thai male started looking at me and kicking the door opposite me very hard repeatedly. I watched him carefully out of the corner of my eye. I thought that if he approached me to harm me that I would give him a hard side kick to his stomach. I am no Ninja. I just thought that I needed some contingency plan at the time. I rareley drink and don't like sitting in bars. I watched the reaction of the other passengers on the Sky Train. Which was fairly full. People looked down or away. I was surprised and releavied when a fairly stocky built Thai male came up to this young male. He whispered something in his ear as he pinned his arms to his side. He looked at me and smiled. He then escorted the other Thai male of the Sky Train at the next stop. I think that he must have been an undercover Thai Security person of some type.

I have walked around Nana and Sukumvit late at night by myself. I don't walk down dark unlit Sois. The worst thing that ever happened to me was a Lady Boy Pick Pocketing the equivalent of two USD. I knew what was going on when she did it. It was a fairly dark area near the entrance to the Sky Train at night. As she took the money I said "Pick Pocket". She put her hands up to show me that her hands were empty. At the same time she dropped the money on the ground. I saw this quickly scooped up my money. I said "Bitch" and quicky walked away. That was all that happened. However, I did hear some voices near by say now were going to see some action. So it was apparent that a couple of people were watching her attempts for their entertainment.

I visit Pattaya. I love walking down Beach Road during the day and late at night. Though not in the extremely late hours. I sleep then. I have never been harrased. I must admit that I am from Michigan in the USA. So a permanent frown has been etched onto my face, after many years, and I am ugly. I try to smile because I know that my frowning must look unfriendly. The truth is that I am not at all unfriendly. Even though I am from the unfriendly State Michigan. I think that this is a trick of the Universe.

I have some small Marshal Arts skills now rusting. But I use rust remover every now and then. Well I am old. I look foreward to training with Jon Peirre Berrie in Taekwondo. Sadly I am not as tough as I once was. Unfortunately I think I am tougher than I am. I work in a dangerous environment but for the purposes of this post I will not dwell on this. You are probably thinking and thank goodness for that and you are correct in your anlysis. So with yearning for some enjoyment which may be left to me in this life I dream of retirment in Thailand.

I am becoming more concerned with repeatedly hearing old Thai hands with many years in country talk about the violence of Thai men and mob attacks. Apparently these attacks may be provoked by as little as stepping inadvertently without intention accidentally on a dropped spoon. I have heard more about this thype of violence on TV than any where else. I watch this trend with great concern. I could not imagine the USA Army or Police Officers attacking a Hospital to assault a victim of violence. This tells me that I must be more cautiouse about the tendency of mob violence by Thai men.

SBK this type of violence is real. Your experienced members talk about it and I respect their perceptions. It helps me to understand what happens and the dynamics of this type of behavior by Thai men. It gives me a heads up. I appreciate their candid information.

Edited July 22, 2007 by philliphn

[jumnien]

and the young footballers name was ......? This thread must set a record for lack of information regarding the OP!

[gburns57au]

I don't want to get into a long discussion here, and I don't mean to diminish your experience in Thailand, but no matter how you slice it is very different to be a visitor no matter how many multiple times, than it is to live in a place.

Also, you example of America at war is not quite equal to comparing pervasive violence at every level throughout society. To put your war example "shock and awe" into perspective, you should compare America to every other European or Asian country at war at the height of their dominance. Not much different.

I would agree with that, but it depends on the quality of time there not the quantity of time. There are some very long time ex pats that have rarely travelled outside of a well developed tourist area and others who have rarely set foot outside of the villages. I am not saying that any of the posters here recently fall into that category. I am sure that many of them have a wealth of experience in travelling all over Thailand and have seen the many aspects of Thai life and cultures, and that they come here with experience that is set further afield than their local area. So that they can make statements on behalf of all of Thailand not just a small part of the Country.

I used the US as an example....I could have used Nazi Germany...they had a blitzkrieg, which means something very similar...My point was that it is a tactical method of combat and it has been around for years. The US is the most recent example of this and that is why I used it.

It is a basic means of survival....many animals use the pack method of attack...I think that many people do not appreciate being tagged as a pack animal, but that is what we are...we seek the company of our kind, we form our groups and we protect our groups, we will kill to defend ourselves and our group and we will die to do that as well.

At the end of the day...I would rather walk down a BKK street where I know that I can be reasonably safe, because lets face it....almost everyone here has told a story of gang attacks where there has been some provocation involved....very few tell stories of totally unprovoked random attacks....than I would to walk down streets in some western countries where you turn a corner to be accosted by 6 gangers holding knives, who want your wallet and will kill you for it, or you walk into a pub knowing that the odds of being involved in one sided brawl where you could get your head kicked in or glassed is reasonably high.

[vermin on arrival]

At the end of the day...I would rather walk down a BKK street where I know that I can be reasonably safe, because lets face it....almost everyone here has told a story of gang attacks where there has been some provocation involved....very few tell stories of totally unprovoked random attacks.

Yes, I definitely feel safer walking down a BKK street than in NYC. However, I feel much safer having an argument/or any other kind of disagreement with a man in NYC. I'm not sure how things will turn out once a dispute occurs here in the LOS(or actually I am sure and I believe it is 100% going to be something really bad for me, hence I avoid any kind of conflict as much as possible). What might be construed as provocation here would be much less than in the US, where you can call someone an ###### and not get punched in the face. There, you'll probably just be called something similar. Here if you do that, you will have someone(even a woman) coming at you with extreme prejudice instantaneously.

To argue that there are not cultural differences in patterns of violence just as there are in marriage rituals, etc, just seems to fly in the face of common sense in my view. In the end, we really are flogging a dead horse here since we both have different points of view on this and won't be changing each others minds, which is ok.

Nice chatting with you gburns. Enjoy a good pint tonight(if you are the type of person who lifts one now and again)

Edited July 23, 2007 by vermin on arrival

[Siripon]

This story was the main feature in the Thai Rath column that follows the misdeeds of the police, it's a regular column on the next to last page.It criticised the police heavily for their inaction and said that when the father of the beaten-up youth coach for Tottenham arrived in Thailand, his first words to the police was why did you not intervene?

No reply of course, though 2 soldiers were soon apprehended. Don't forget police have to ask the commanding officer of any military figures before they can arrest them.

A second horrific story of violence occurred a few nights ago when a police volunteer intervened when he saw 2 groups of teenagers engaged in a violent quarrel \brawl. He knew them so he remonstrated with them and slapped the ringleader on the head, telling him to behave better in the future.

That was his fatal mistake. The ring leader, a typical loudmouthed coward, swore violently and ran off to his adjoining Soi to return with approx 20 fellow hooligans who proceeded to beat and almost kick the volunteer to death.

The lesson being, don't make idiots lose face. Always walk away if you are, or will be in the minority.

[gburns57au]

At the end of the day...I would rather walk down a BKK street where I know that I can be reasonably safe, because lets face it....almost everyone here has told a story of gang attacks where there has been some provocation involved....very few tell stories of totally unprovoked random attacks.

Yes, I definitely feel safer walking down a BKK street than in NYC. However, I feel much safer having an argument/or any other kind of disagreement with a man in NYC. I'm not sure how things will turn out once a dispute occurs here in the LOS(or actually I am sure and I believe it is 100% going to be something really bad for me, hence I avoid any kind of conflict as much as possible). What might be construed as provocation here would be much less than in the US, where you can call someone an ###### and not get punched in the face. There, you'll probably just be called something similar. Here if you do that, you will have someone(even a woman) coming at you with extreme prejudice instantaneously.

To argue that there are not cultural differences in patterns of violence just as there are in marriage rituals, etc, just seems to fly in the face of common sense in my view. In the end, we really are flogging a dead horse here since we both have different points of view on this and won't be changing each others minds, which is ok.

Nice chatting with you gburns. Enjoy a good pint tonight(if you are the type of person who lifts one now and again)

I had a problem with this one drunken Thai guy in Bua Yai once....he was in my face big time...New years party and all....I just informed the family that I would deck this guy and they took him away...and then they apologised for his behaviour....I have stepped into the middle of Thai/Thai fights and broken them up...never once feared for my safety, depends on how you, as a person handles it.

I agree cultures can be different....what is accepted in one country may not accepted in another, but in the end if you cross the line then you will get a reaction. How you deliver the message you wish to convey makes a difference too....you can offhandedly and in the right situation call an Oz person a Wan***r...but if you say it in a different tone and display a different body language then you could expect a problem. There are cultural differences in the way people fight but the basics of the fight strategy is the same. Would you for instance engage in a fight against a more numerous enemy without back-up....nope you wouldnt...you would cover your ass by making sure that you had the back up or a way out.

[meemiathai]

I think being a single woman especially an attractive one is totally different with being a single man living in thailand. Also actually living here and being a tourist is also different.

I actually have quite good survival skills so thailand does not look dangerous to me.

[gburns57au]

http://www.pattayapeople.com/default.asp?F...;IdArticle=4688

I think this says a lot....perhaps they learnt this from the Thais......

[kat]

Has there been any other news on this story, particularly about the guys who were supposedly arrested?