Divorce, visa transition, lawyer and child parental rights

[ThaiRider5]

i have some questions regarding divorce, visa to transition to, lawyers and child parental rights.

- i am legally married in Thailand to the Thai mother before our child was born.  Last month, she left our house in Chiang Mai with the child to the parents house in the rural province, 6 hrs away by car.  This was not the first time and marriage problems have been brewing for over a year.  At this point, i would like to divorce the mother.  My goal would to gain rights to my daughter to determine where the child lives, who the child lives with and where the child goes to school.  Can this be done based on my income level, better city and better school that i can provide?  Or do i need to provide additional factors for a stronger case?  Has this ever been successfully done through the courts?

- she is refusing to allow me to take my child away from the house in the province to spend time alone with my child.  I would assume i have equal rights as her and the police could not prosecute me.  However, I don’t want to cause a huge disturbance.  Given the mother is unwilling to agree to let me take my child away, what are my options given Thai laws that apply to me.  

- the child is registered in Bangkok in the condo she owns.  It is my understanding the court filing for child custody must be done in Bangkok due to this.  Can anybody recommend a Thai family lawyer with a good track record in Bangkok?  I do not need an English speaking lawyer.

- after the divorce is completed.  What is the process i need to go through for my visa.  Currently it is a visa based on marriage.  I think i have the option of a retirement visa or child dependency option.  I can meet the bank deposit requirements for either.  Is one a better or easier option than the other?  What do most people do?  How long do i have before i have to change this visa?

- i assume there are many others who have gone through this same circumstance.  Is there any advice you can give me or recommendations to help get me through this and ideally with a successful outcome.  It’s been a little rough with the prospect of loosing my child.

 

Thanks in advance for any help, advice and recommendations.

[Campfire]

Don't do it man. You will get seriously burned in court. She will get full custody and you will get NO visitation rights. Don't believe what Lawyers her tell you they just want your money. I have been down this road and have a 12 year old daughter. She will get some exaggerated amount of monthly payment from you also. The only way they give custody to the father is if the mother is a criminal or as serious mental problems that needs hospitalization for. I had loads of proof my ex was a bad mother but it made no difference. Here's what I would do if I had it all over to do. Play a waiting game, she needs money from you and you tell her you will give to her, if you can have weekends with your child. If she doesn't want to comply you need to wait until she offers a visit for money. At some point she will have a need for cash. Then you take your daughter and scram! Possession is king here, she knows this and that's why she doesn't want to let you have any time with her.  This is what Thai men do, I am told. Just beat it and cut off all contact from her. Let her come after you for divorce and with little resources she will just give up. If need be, move every 6 months to keep her of track for a couple of years. get out of Dodge. Yes the Gov knows where you are but this is a civil matter and they don't bother too much. carry on and have a great life with your daughter and good luck. 

[RedCardinal]

Both parents have rights, regardless of nationality. The problems you'll most likely encounter is the enforcement of those rights and the bias in local enforcement towards the Thai national in mixed couples.  Read back over the archives here, and you can find horror stories of farang parents granted full custody, but unable to enforce court orders due to local officials taking no interest.

 

As the father you're most likely entitled to petition government agencies for information about your daughter.  So you may be able to locate her school records this way.  This may also assist in locating her.   

 

FWIW my advice is to find one of the larger, more reputable law firms who have Family Law experts, and pay for some initial advice.  The reply above, although well-meaning, probably is not going to help your predicament.  One thing that the reply mentions that often does come up (and can be leveraged) is money.  Taking a transactional approach to this may at least yield information and temporary access.  Offer to support your daughter's upkeep.  See if this can gain you information/access.  Can you contact your wife's family - can they be approached to at least start a dialogue about helping your daughter?  Earning some trust with the family may provide dividends down the road.

 

FWIW I've been through something very similar.  It's not easy, but try to keep a positive outlook.  Also, take care of yourself and good luck. 

[john donson]

Hi,

 

are above replies from actual people with children that went true this ?

 

I have...

 

Ok...

 

how old is your child ?

 

important , as she will be seen in a contested divorce by a social worker, if old enough

 

to express her wishes... with whom she wants to live

 

full custody is a joke, lawyers might suggest you try... but it is useless and costly, good for lawyers

 

A thai judge will always aim for shared custody.

 

Full custody is only if you buy your child from your poor ex...

 

Enforcement of whatever can be agreed in family court is not worth the paper is was  written/printed/sign on.

 

Important question:   when is your next extension due ?   My ex left the house a month for marriage extension and made extending impossible, that was part of her plan.

 

I was not 50 yet, and still married, so no options and agents cannot solve this problem, but you say you can go the retirement route, good.

 

Shared custody... you will need your child with you and a place for her to live and make photos of both of you... if you have no chance to see her, then parent of a Thai child is impossible as the child also has to be there at immigration.

 

Switching to retirement visa, but immigration might want your wife to be there, the first time.

 

Maybe you convince her to be there when you go extend, present money or whatever... Or tell her this way, you can sort out your visa yourself and don't have to disturb her precious time anymore.

 

Divorce, cannot give the name as my lawyer did not fight for my rights, more like convince me I had a good deal at the first attempt pre-court...   It was expected it would be a long route of many court visits to come to an agreement as we had children and houses.

 

I stupidly agreed a deal, to not go 50/50 on the house on the signed agreement she would but our child as co owner of the house I fully paid, but then never went to land department to transfer and nobody could for her either...  Court even coldly told me she did nothing wrong... wth...  Land department did not want to execute the family court divorce agreement, as it was stated she had  30 days after the divorce , but then had to file again in court and ex did not leave an address after divorce to be summoned by my lawyer or court.

 

[node]

Let me throw in my (2) cent's worth. 

If the wife do not agree to a divorce, it takes (3) years here to get one in a Thai court; unless one of those (10) items in the Thai law book plays out. Or you have a document from your home country stating they will grant you a divorce.

Just remember abondanment is one, but that is only after (1) year of such.

If she agrees to a divorce you can get that in 20 minutes at a Thai court. 

If there is/are kids in the mixed that is a different story here. Or house after the marriage. 

Usually a Thai Judge will not take away the parent rights unless one of you were a bad parent to that kid. Secondly at 12/13 years old they ( Thai Judges)  usually will ask that kid which parent they prefer to be with, expect that.

That Thai mother with her parents would fight you for the rights to that kid. Again expect that. 

All I can say is fight for your child. The cards are stack against you here.

Best do the divorce if she agrees in one of the small provinces here, the lawyers in Bangkok would kill you with price. 

Also remember if your properties were aquired after the marriage it goes 50/50 here, if land is involved it is her's. Only the house and God help you to get the money from her for it.

Another good thing of doing this divorce in a small town court is if the Judges say Joint Custody you will not have to pay through your teeth for your kid as in Bangkok. 

With reference to visa extension here, when your extension is due switch to "retirement" very simple process than marriage extension. Because after divorce you have (7) days to lock up shop and get out of here, if your extension is not process.

Best live near where the child is being school the Judges look at this.

The process of registering and collecting the divorce at the Ampur you would need two Thai witnesses you must bring an English interpreter one of the witness can be one. To make sure she / he types exactly what the court wrote on that divorce, otherwise you would go through hell to get that changed. Your original marriage certificate, your passport, a copy of your passport stamped by your Consulate, and translated into Thai, and that

stamped by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

I trust the above will help you to what you must go through. I might seems a lot but it is not.

 

 

[ThaiRider5]

To @node and @john donson and @RedCardinal and @Campfire.  i appreaciate all the advice of real world experiences and expectations.  its been 9 months since my original post. i think the guys here (or anywhere) who have gone through this pretty much knows the journey one goes through.

 

at this point, i'm ready to roll the dice and go to court to establish visitation rights now and request to get custody when my daughter is older.  the abandonment date is looming and i'm counting down the days to go that route.  i'm glad to hear the switch from marraige extension to retirement extension will be simple.  but to be honest, i think everyone who has been here a while, knows nothing is "simple" 🤣.  just kidding...