Do Thai People Practice Meditation On A Regularly?

[DeDanan]

Do Thai people practice meditation on a regular basis? At what age do Thai children start to practice meditation?

Have a Happy,

DeDanan

[Dutchy2]

I can't help but feel that this posting is a bit naive, the whole 'Thailand is a buddhist country' topic is naive. It's like saying European countries are of catholic, christian nature. It's not like that anymore in Europe, it's not like that in Thailand anymore. The only religion is money in Thailand, and Buddhism is there to make other people believe you're a good human being.

I do not know any Thai that meditates, neither any Thai that has spent more than the required time in a temple. Why do that when one could make money also?

Dutchy

[NaiGreg]

The only religion is money in Thailand, and Buddhism is there to make other people believe you're a good human being.

Wow! a completely inappropriate AND naive comment!

The correct answer is yes. Many Thais meditate, and even if it is not recognizable by certain disillusioned farangs, it is what it is. Or is it?

[sendbaht]

The middle path NaiGreg.. I like it.

[kwiz117]

I can't help but feel that this posting is a bit naive, the whole 'Thailand is a Buddhist country' topic is naive. It's like saying European countries are of catholic, Christian nature. It's not like that anymore in Europe, it's not like that in Thailand anymore. The only religion is money in Thailand, and Buddhism is there to make other people believe you're a good human being.

I do not know any Thai that meditates, neither any Thai that has spent more than the required time in a temple. Why do that when one could make money also?

Dutchy

I completely agree with this point.

Actually not only Thailand. Everywhere it is same except for Muslims.

Muslim is a classic example of people trying to live as per a religion. All other religions, philosophy's are just screen-savers.

Like a Screen-saver, they have a true meaning behind and also has a purpose. Also it has a theme. But it only gets activated randomly.

(Only inside the church or a temple)

BTW, Meditation is not directly related to Buddhism. As far as I am aware of it has a long history even before lord Buddha used it as the mean to attain Enlightenment.

[Dutchy2]

The only religion is money in Thailand, and Buddhism is there to make other people believe you're a good human being.

Wow! a completely inappropriate AND naive comment!

The correct answer is yes. Many Thais meditate, and even if it is not recognizable by certain disillusioned farangs, it is what it is. Or is it?

Wow! a completely inappropriate AND naive comment!

Yep, I'm sorry, I disagree, that's highly inappropriate.

The correct answer is yes. Many Thais meditate, and even if it is not recognizable by certain disillusioned farangs

Yep, I'm totally disillusioned, I don't live in a temple

it is what it is. Or is it?

Are you sure yourself?

[stroll]

How come you are wasting time to post here instead of making money. You are not trying to make believe you are a good person, are you?

[camerata]

Do Thai people practice meditation on a regular basis? At what age do Thai children start to practice meditation?

My educated female Thai friends meditate and are very active in reading books or listening to tapes on dhamma. I think most of them started meditating as a response to a stressful (adult) life.

[andyinkat]

Traditionally only monks meditated. Lay people fed the monks and participated in festivals but meditaion would only be undertaken if they spent time in a Sangha.

This has changed now - due to western influence. It seems supremely ironic that westernisation has brought consumerism and all those shallow values and along with it an interest in meditation.

Us religious scholars call this 'the pizza effect'. The analogy works like this: Italian emigrants made a new life in New York. There they invented this new meal. They took it to Italy and convinced the Italians living there that they should eat this new thing. Over time the myth grew up that it was originally an Italian dish.

This happens with religion too - westerners take back elements of an exotic religion, transform it and re-export it to the host country in its new state. In time this becomes 'owned' by the host country.

Kasun's gonna flame me for this but this is what happened in Sri Lanka. At the end of the 19th century Buddhism in Sri Lanka was in a bit of a mess (I could qualify that but it would take time and its a bit off-topic). Western scholars (mainly Theosophists) took elements of it back to England, transformed it into an ultra-rationalist form of Theravadan Buddhism and returned the new version with it's poo-poohing of spirits and demi-gods to Sri Lanka. It instilled an intellectual dimension which had for some time been missing but to this day Sri Lankan Buddhism appears more rational and therefore appealing to many westerners than the Buddhism found elsewhere in SE Asia.

So with lay people meditating in Thailand - the growing interest is as much to do with western influence than traditional Thai norms. This is not to make a value-judgement, it's just throwing in a bit of background information.

[stroll]

Fascinating. Please excuse my ignorance, what do you mean by 'theosophists'? Any relation to Madame Blavatsky's Theosophical Society? I know some members took an interest in preserving Buddhism, they anticipated threats to the 'seats of knowledge in Tibet', for example, if I recall it correctly.

[sabaijai]

Thai laypeople were practicing meditation well before Europeans ever arrived in Thailand with pizza The first Europeans to arrive in Thailand made a note of it.

Not all of them of course. I think the pizza-eaters outnumber the meditators, but then so do the kuaytiaw-eaters ...

Fewer Thais practice now than did a hundred or more years ago, so if European influence was a factor in the proportion of those practicing, it was most likely a negative factor.

Edited July 14, 2004 by sabaijai

[monkgonemad]

burmese meditate a great deal. there are centers all over the country and laypersons often have all night 'parties' in which they channel the group energy and often meditate for sick or dying persons. families often meditate together as well. im sure there was a time when the sangha was more important than the singha -but that was a long time ago.

[andyinkat]

Stroll - yes, those folks; they had their fingers in nations all over buddhist and Hindu Asia. It was Colonel Oldcott IIRC - a close colleague of Madam B who was primarily responsible for reinvigourating Buddhism in Sri Lanka.

Other responses - I'm not meaning to suggest that lay people never meditated before the Europeans arrived; the option has always been there but there was no onus on a lay person to do so unless they'd taken extra vows - i.e. were 'very religious'. It became more of a norm after the likes of Col. Oldcott convinced the (western) educated middle classes that religious activities such as making offerings to gods was superstition and meditation was 'real' Buddhism.

But then again, in more recent times that great western religion of consumerism is proving to be the greatest devastator of true religion the world has ever seen and Thailand has proved as suseptible as any society. That is why I am somewhat ambivalent about my views on the attempts of the Burmese regime to keep out 'democracy' - I find that a tricky one.

Incidentally, in Burma the monks and laity focus exclusively on vipassana ('insight/analytical') meditation whereas in most other Theravadan communities the meditation practice for laiy people is usually samatha ('calming/concentration') as a foundation for the more advanced vipassana. That's another thread though.

[sabaijai]

Stroll - yes, those folks; they had their fingers in nations all over buddhist and Hindu Asia. It was Colonel Oldcott IIRC - a close colleague of Madam B who was primarily responsible for reinvigourating Buddhism in Sri Lanka.

Other responses - I'm not meaning to suggest that lay people never meditated before the Europeans arrived; the option has always been there but there was no onus on a lay person to do so unless they'd taken extra vows - i.e. were 'very religious'. It became more of a norm after the likes of Col. Oldcott convinced the (western) educated middle classes that religious activities such as making offerings to gods was superstition and meditation was 'real' Buddhism.

But then again, in more recent times that great western religion of consumerism is proving to be the greatest devastator of true religion the world has ever seen and Thailand has proved as suseptible as any society. That is why I am somewhat ambivalent about my views on the attempts of the Burmese regime to keep out 'democracy' - I find that a tricky one.

Incidentally, in Burma the monks and laity focus exclusively on vipassana ('insight/analytical') meditation whereas in most other Theravadan communities the meditation practice for laiy people is usually samatha ('calming/concentration') as a foundation for the more advanced vipassana. That's another thread though.

Oldcott's involvement may have applied to Sri Lanka and to a much lesser extent to Burma but he had zero influence in Thailand, Laos and Cambodia, all of which have a long history of lay meditation.

Fewer Thais nowadays may take extra vows when meditating (although it's still the more typical practice), and if so that may be due to western influence. In that case western influence has had more of a reductive influence on Thai lay meditation than an expansive one.

The biggest promoter of meditation in modern Thailand - for both monks and the laity - was Ajahn Mun Bhuridatto early in the 20th century. Aj Mun had no contact with Western Buddhism.

[andyinkat]

Thanks for adding some clarification there Sabaijai. I said in my first post that my reference to Sri Lanka and the Theosophists was off topic on this thread about Thai lay practice but it still seemed to lead to some confusion.

We are in agreement that the net influence of western influence is hugely negative. To my mind a lesson from the 20th century is that Consumerism has proved to be a far more insidious and deadly poison than anti-religious Communism ever managed to be. That's why the physical presnce of a monastic Sangha is so vital.

In the West there is so much watered-down Buddhism; super-stressful work patterns, endless accumulation of stuff and a ten minute meditation to 'balance' one's lifestyle. That's not the Buddha's Middle Way! Okay many monks may fall far short of the ideal but still their very presence, living a non-materialistic life and offering a visible example of an alternative way of life to the madness that envelops us all.

I'm sorry all - I'm feeling a bit sensitive just now. I still have a few more days stranded in England before I leave for LOS. The main news item is all about the binge drinking culture - how so many Brits of all ages waste so much money getting pissed and harming their own health and that of others. At the same time I'm following events in Bihar, India (where Bodh Gaya is - where Lord Buddha achieved enlightenment). I founded a little school a few kilometres downriver on Christmas Day - now it's all swept away and the pupils are amongst the eleven million people in the state who are homeless and my friend tells me many of the children are very sick. I'm feeling helpless and at the same time disgusted at 'modern life'. Samsara really sucks, but I made a Mahayana vow to keep coming back until all suffering has been eliminated. Guess I need to put down the keyboard and pull out a cushion and sit until I've straightened my head out!

[sabaijai]

My sympathies on the loss of the school you started in Bihar. I've been to the state a few times, and was recently in Bodh Gaya again. There's perhaps no place in India in greater need.

What's that saying about success, Andy, "Fall down six times, get up seven?" All we can do is strive on with diligence.

[Gohonzon]

It seems to me that asking whether Thai people meditate is a little like asking whether many people go to church in '.Christian countries'. The answer is of course that only a minority do.Most Thai people pay the Buddha homage in order to achieve gain or 'chok dee' (good luck).Or to make merit in some other way-but not in order to achieve enlightenment.The Buddha is seen as something external to be venerated and prayed to,rather than being someone that we can all aspire to.That is,that we all have the potential for Buddhahood in this lifetime.Whether this is due to incorrect teaching,or understanding of what the Buddha taught-or just the convenience of adopting consumer Buddhism is another question.

[drummer]

It seems to me that asking whether Thai people meditate is a little like asking whether many people go to church in '.Christian countries'. The answer is of course that only a minority do.Most Thai people pay the Buddha homage in order to achieve gain or 'chok dee' (good luck).Or to make merit in some other way-but not in order to achieve enlightenment.The Buddha is seen as something external to be venerated and prayed to,rather than being someone that we can all aspire to.That is,that we all have the potential for Buddhahood in this lifetime.Whether this is due to incorrect teaching,or understanding of what the Buddha taught-or just the convenience of adopting consumer Buddhism is another question.

Beat me to the punch. Thais are really not very different in form in function than anyone else. Think about all the westerners you know who pray and apply that to LoS. Think about how many of them are honest about it, and how many are going through the motions, and how many just don't care. My feeling is that the numbers are going to be pretty similar- organized or not.

There is another factor that might skew this hypothesis, though. Meditation has a utilitarian aspect that can motivate people to do it. While praying can be a form of meditation (think about "Hail Mary"s), I rather suspect that most prayers are not as, useful, as a good meditation session.

I also suspect that seeing the Buddha as something external is something that is going to be the natural state for people- at least a large portion of societies anywhere and with any religion/philosophy etc. I'll bet you anything that it existed before western philosophy had much of an impact.