What sort of Tax liability would I have?

[BillStrangeOgre]

I'm thinking of opening a sterling bank account with a local bank here in Thailand. I will be on a 'retirement' visa.

I would use the account to deposit funds made on profits from investments outside Thailand.

Can anyone give me any idea what my tax liability/rate in Thailand be?

Thanks

Bill

 

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, BillStrangeOgre said:

I'm thinking of opening a sterling bank account with a local bank here in Thailand. I will be on a 'retirement' visa.

I would use the account to deposit funds made on profits from investments outside Thailand.

Can anyone give me any idea what my tax liability/rate in Thailand be?

Thanks

Bill

 

 

Please read the following document and come back to us with any questions:

 

 

[flyingtlger]

Why risk having to pay taxes by depositing funds on profits from your investments in Thailand, especially now since the Thai government is stating they will crack down of taxing all foreigners' income living in Thailand?

Just open a bank account that required for your retirement visa and wire transfer a set amount every month from your bank back home.

 

A friend of mine did something similar, he had a relative that lived back in his home country and he would use his relatives address to receive all his mail from the bank. He would send a set amount to his bank in Thailand every month or every other month....

[BillStrangeOgre]

6 minutes ago, flyingtlger said:

Why risk having to pay taxes by depositing funds on profits from your investments in Thailand, especially now since the Thai government is stating they will crack down of taxing all foreigners' income living in Thailand?

Just open a bank account that required for your retirement visa and wire transfer a set amount every month from your bank back home.

 

A friend of mine did something similar, he had a relative that lived back in his home country and he would use his relatives address to receive all his mail from the bank. He would send a set amount to his bank in Thailand every month or every other month....

If he was proving residency in the UK through his relative's address wouldn't he then be liable to UK tax on his profits?

[TigerandDog]

12 hours ago, flyingtlger said:

Why risk having to pay taxes by depositing funds on profits from your investments in Thailand, especially now since the Thai government is stating they will crack down of taxing all foreigners' income living in Thailand?

Just open a bank account that required for your retirement visa and wire transfer a set amount every month from your bank back home.

 

A friend of mine did something similar, he had a relative that lived back in his home country and he would use his relatives address to receive all his mail from the bank. He would send a set amount to his bank in Thailand every month or every other month....

I'm pretty sure that won't work anymore as a means of avoiding tax in Thailand. Your friend will need to ascertain if his/her home country has a tax treaty with Thailand and familiarise himself/herself on how that will impact income tax that will have to be paid in Thailand.

[TigerandDog]

12 hours ago, BillStrangeOgre said:

If he was proving residency in the UK through his relative's address wouldn't he then be liable to UK tax on his profits?

that would be totally dependent on the wording of the UK/Thai tax treaty.

 

Using the aussie/Thai tax treaty as an example it states that as I'm a resident for tax purposes in Thailand and not Oz under our tax treaty Thailand has the sole rite to tax any funds I bring into Thailand from 1 Jan this year and that Oz cannot tax me at all. The ONLY exclusion to be taxed in Thailand would be for me to be able to prove that those funds were either savings or earnings prior to 1 Jan 2024.

[BillStrangeOgre]

31 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

that would be totally dependent on the wording of the UK/Thai tax treaty.

 

Using the aussie/Thai tax treaty as an example it states that as I'm a resident for tax purposes in Thailand and not Oz under our tax treaty Thailand has the sole rite to tax any funds I bring into Thailand from 1 Jan this year and that Oz cannot tax me at all. The ONLY exclusion to be taxed in Thailand would be for me to be able to prove that those funds were either savings or earnings prior to 1 Jan 2024.

If I'm taxed in Thailand on those profits does anyone know the rate?

Thanks

[khunPer]

14 hours ago, BillStrangeOgre said:

I'm thinking of opening a sterling bank account with a local bank here in Thailand. I will be on a 'retirement' visa.

I would use the account to deposit funds made on profits from investments outside Thailand.

Can anyone give me any idea what my tax liability/rate in Thailand be?

Thanks

Bill

Probably better to open your Sterling-account off shore, or in your home country, if you are staying 180 days or more during a calendar year in Thailand. All fund transferred into Thailand after January 1st 2024 will be eligible for income taxation, if it's not proven savings from before 2024, or covered by a Double Taxation Agreement.

 

A longer and detailed explanation is in the link shared above.

[oldcpu]

16 hours ago, BillStrangeOgre said:

 I will be on a 'retirement' visa.

 

What do you mean by 'retirement' visa?  Do you mean on a Type-O or a Type-OA for reason of retirement?  In that case, you have been given great advise already. 

 

If you are in Thailand for > 180 days you could be taxed on that foreign money you bring into Thailand (dependent on a number of factors such as Double Tax Agreements (DTA) with the country where the money was earned).

 

If "retired" (like myself and others" on a LTR-WP visa), then according to Thailand Royal Decree, there is to be no tax on foreign income brought into Thailand.  I think many of us on an LTR visa are waiting to see if that will indeed be the case, but I think it looks promising. 

 

Note if you re-invest in Thailand,  money brought into Thailand, and if you earn money off of that money in Thaliand, then you will likely be taxed on that money in Thailand (such as Thai bank withholding tax on interest), and dependent on the amount earned, I assume if large enough, you will need to submit a Thai tax return.

 

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, BillStrangeOgre said:

If I'm taxed in Thailand on those profits does anyone know the rate?

Thanks

Capital Gains is taxed at Personal Income Tax rates which are stepped, the bands can be found in the link above in the Simple Tax Guide.

[Mike Lister]

I've hidden a post on a provisional basis, if the poster wants to explain to me what he's advising the OP to do I can decide whether to let your post stay hidden or not. Please PM me with details.

[john donson]

20 hours ago, BillStrangeOgre said:

I'm thinking of opening a sterling bank account with a local bank here in Thailand. I will be on a 'retirement' visa.

I would use the account to deposit funds made on profits from investments outside Thailand.

Can anyone give me any idea what my tax liability/rate in Thailand be?

Thanks

Bill

 

 

good luck, I tried FCD for USD and the answer was... THAI ONLY

[Road Warrior]

do i understand correctly ?  if in the less 160 day rule that  NO TAX IS PAYABLE ???   please comment anybody .

so could fly out of Thailand say to Singapore for 2/3 days then return .WOULD THE 160 RIULE APPLY AS  day 1 on my 

return to Thailand   ???????????????????????????

[Mike Lister]

44 minutes ago, Road Warrior said:

do i understand correctly ?  if in the less 160 day rule that  NO TAX IS PAYABLE ???   please comment anybody .

so could fly out of Thailand say to Singapore for 2/3 days then return .WOULD THE 160 RIULE APPLY AS  day 1 on my 

return to Thailand   ???????????????????????????

No, that's not correct!

 

You must remain in Thailand for a cumulative 180 days per calendar year, in order to become tax resident. Please read the document in the OP, linked below. That means,, any number of individual visits of however many days each you chose, or one visit of a long duration, totalling more than 180 days:

 

 

[BillStrangeOgre]

On 3/8/2024 at 2:14 PM, Mike Lister said:

No, that's not correct!

 

You must remain in Thailand for a cumulative 180 days per calendar year, in order to become tax resident. Please read the document in the OP, linked below. That means,, any number of individual visits of however many days each you chose, or one visit of a long duration, totalling more than 180 days:

 

 

Reading the Tax Guide...

 

TAX RESIDENCY 

21) If you stay in Thailand for more than a cumulative 179 days, between 1 January and 31 December each year, you will be and always were considered to be Tax Resident in Thailand during that year, almost entirely  regardless of the type of visa you have (special tax exempt classes of visa excluded). It doesn’t matter that you may be Tax Resident in your home country or elsewhere or that you pay tax in those countries, Thailand will still regard you as Tax Resident. Tax Residency and Immigration status (and the visa you hold) are different things. Tax residency is based solely on the number of days you spend in Thailand. A day appears to be counted using the entry and exit stamps in your passport, unlike many other countries where it is determined by where you are at midnight. The number of days counter reverts to zero, on 1 January each year.

 

So, theoretically if on a Type-O or a Type-OA for reason of retirement and I don't spend more than 180 days in the country, then funds I import into Thailand and placed in a sterling bank account here are not taxable?

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, BillStrangeOgre said:

Reading the Tax Guide...

 

 

TAX RESIDENCY 

21) If you stay in Thailand for more than a cumulative 179 days, between 1 January and 31 December each year, you will be and always were considered to be Tax Resident in Thailand during that year, almost entirely  regardless of the type of visa you have (special tax exempt classes of visa excluded). It doesn’t matter that you may be Tax Resident in your home country or elsewhere or that you pay tax in those countries, Thailand will still regard you as Tax Resident. Tax Residency and Immigration status (and the visa you hold) are different things. Tax residency is based solely on the number of days you spend in Thailand. A day appears to be counted using the entry and exit stamps in your passport, unlike many other countries where it is determined by where you are at midnight. The number of days counter reverts to zero, on 1 January each year.

 

So, theoretically if on a Type-O or a Type-OA for reason of retirement and I don't spend more than 180 days in the country, then funds I import into Thailand and placed in a sterling bank account here are not taxable?

Correct.

[BillStrangeOgre]

On 3/22/2024 at 2:38 PM, Mike Lister said:

Correct.

That's useful to know.

I can park funds in a sterling account here in Thailand and as long as I don't stay longer that 180 days I avoid tax here AND in the UK

[LivinLOS]

4 hours ago, BillStrangeOgre said:

That's useful to know.

I can park funds in a sterling account here in Thailand and as long as I don't stay longer that 180 days I avoid tax here AND in the UK

Yes but it would be even easier to park those GBP funds in a non UK linked account outside Thailand and ensure your Thai liability does not happen even if you were here >180 days. 

Also the secondary factor would be the UK would still have claim on any UK 'domestic source' income, and in fact the UK can lay claim to 'sufficient ties' to the UK (still owning a UK car, uk property, kids going to school) they can be very harsh as the famous Gaines-Cooper case showed. If you pay the liability elsewhere it becomes a tax credit issue but when you try to slip between the cracks, as many western earning Thai resident expats have done its still a lot riskier / harder and you really have to have your UK connections severed. 

EDIT Gaines-Cooper https://www.blevinsfranks.com/gainescooper-and-uk-tax-residency-the-courts-judgement/

Edited March 25 by LivinLOS

[BillStrangeOgre]

20 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Yes but it would be even easier to park those GBP funds in a non UK linked account outside Thailand and ensure your Thai liability does not happen even if you were here >180 days. 

Also the secondary factor would be the UK would still have claim on any UK 'domestic source' income, and in fact the UK can lay claim to 'sufficient ties' to the UK (still owning a UK car, uk property, kids going to school) they can be very harsh as the famous Gaines-Cooper case showed. If you pay the liability elsewhere it becomes a tax credit issue but when you try to slip between the cracks, as many western earning Thai resident expats have done its still a lot riskier / harder and you really have to have your UK connections severed. 

EDIT Gaines-Cooper https://www.blevinsfranks.com/gainescooper-and-uk-tax-residency-the-courts-judgement/

True and the tax man could probably make a good case for claiming I am a UK resident for tax purposes.

My funds will be coming from profits (hopefully) trading crypto currencies this year on a foreign domiciled exchange. No way the taxman would have any idea about that unless I repatriate the funds to a UK bank account.

 

The problem is opening a non UK linked bank account outside Thailand with all the KYC. I can do that here in Thailand relatively easily

[LivinLOS]

Easy to open a non uk linked bank. All you need is someone to handle a mailing address in Thai

Step 1 open and fund a nationwide account in uk.. 
Step 2 change the address to your desired Thai address (they accept this).. 
Step 3 open a bank account fully severed from the UK.. When they wish to do KYC use the nationwide bank statement for proof of address.. Lloyds Jersey do one with a 30k deposit.. Standard bank is inferior but does it for free with a 5k GBP deposit. Use Thai mobile and mailing address.. 

 

Maintain the Nationwide account funded for periodical KYC review.