Why Californians are leaving

GypsyT · April 8

I found this interesting. I didn't realize how bad my old "Golden State" has gone;

"The median cost of a California house was nearly $800,000 in November, more than double the $336,000 you’d pay in Texas, according to Redfin housing market data. In neighboring Arizona and Nevada, it was $435,000 and $479,000, respectively. These are destination states for departing Californians."

Link; https://www.yahoo.com/news/why-californians-fleeing-once-golden-100055244.html

It makes me sad....

I had my best years there and made my money there. I still like CA a lot and most of my friends are there. I hope to return if housing etc will improve.

Khyron · April 8

Maybe in certain neighborhoods, but overall the median home prices are $450-550k.

TBH, I hope the home prices stay or even go up. I purchased in 2010 when the homes were being given away almost.

I don't owe much anymore and hope to retire next year. Fortunately, this won't be my main source of cash.

Maybe that is being a greedy, I hope not.🙂

I am curious to see how the Thai RD will view the home sale, as the profit isn't taxed until a certain number in the US, I will be under that threshold.

So If I sell the house in the fall, and am not a Thai tax resident until the following year, I wonder if it will be subject to Thai tax at all? If I show it in savings, then they shouldn't touch it.

I may talk to someone in the RD when we go back next year, I have heard the personnel are very helpful.

So many questions...

Ca isn't the same as it was 30+ years ago, most people are not that optimistic unfortunately.

sidjameson · April 8

There's a global pattern of places to make money that have sky high prices and when ones making money phase is over it's prudent to leave.

London, Tokyo, Mumbai etc exactly the same.

KhunLA · April 9

Simple tax burden would be enough for me not to live there. Silly RE price would make it almost impossible. If you could afford a house there, you wouldn't have much pocket money to enjoy life, unl a millionaire.

Fires, earthquakes, droughts, water restrictions all add to ... 'why bother'.

I lived in TN 5 yrs prior to TH ... -0- state income tax

Pennsylvania before that ... 2.3%, I think, at the time, now 4%

CA at 12% ... would have meant $6k a year, $500 a month, from my salaried job.

I live on that here :cheesy:

Add the sales tax ... California 7.250%

1st or 2nd highest state gasoline tax

Highest gasoline price

ChaiyaTH · April 9

Funny most American travellers I came across lately, who are mid 20 or early 30 all seem to be from there.

ChaiyaTH · April 9

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

CA at 12% ... would have meant $6k a year, $500 a month, from my salaried job.

I live on that here

The fun with people who brag about their income in western countries, if you look at their actual costs, free spending power, quality of life, free time etc etc most people are actually better off with like 1000$ a month here, even most here, would say that is not enough here too lol.

KhunLA · April 9

15 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

The fun with people who brag about their income in western countries, if you look at their actual costs, free spending power, quality of life, free time etc etc most people are actually better off with like 1000$ a month here, even most here, would say that is not enough here too lol.

Since all is bought & paid for (same as if I lived in USA), I actually have not touched my Soc Sec this year, yet. Simply taking ฿17k/<$500 from ATM ($500 max allowed, on my debit card), which is a bit more than my pension, that gets deposit in USA brokerage account. Been living on that so far this year.

If in old house in Pa, then almost $400 of that would probably have gone to monthly RE Taxes (total of: state, county, local & school). Majority of that is school tax, and I never had kids there, and for a crap school district.

Another $175 ish, would go toward Medicare Plan B, which the premium cost more per year, than I can spend over hear on healthcare, as fairly healthy. Along with the deductibles, cost more than doc visits & meds here, if needed.

That's a lot of pocket money out the window for no return.

Low price of solar system & EVs here, all just icing on the cake. No petrol or electric cost :coffee1: ROI for those two, <5 to maybe 8 years, depending on use.

eddyod · April 9

If I had to live back in the states again, it would probably be CA. The job market was great and I got a good education. Compared to PA where I was born, CA is far better. Having said that, I am glad not to be around the homeless in San Diego and the violence.

The high cost of real estate worked out well as I bought in 2009 and sold in 2021.

GinBoy2 · April 12

I'm a native Central Valley guy. Lived most of my adult life either in the Bay Area or San Diego and I still love San Diego county, my youngest daughter and my Grandson still live there.

But OMG I just couldn't live with the traffic and all the people

anymore.

Daughter is contemplating a move to North Carolina, which I'm not thrilled about, but I get it

EVENKEEL · April 13

Was just in Texas. Gas under 3.00 usd gal. Back in CA now paying $5.50

zhounan · April 13

Wokism.

jas007 · May 5

California used to be great. Now? Not so much, unless you’re a billionaire and don’t mind all the taxes and inflated property values. The only people who are doing OK are those who bought their homes years ago. Thanks to Proposition 13, the property taxes are not crazy. So they stay.

Celsius · May 5

still cheaper than equivalent Bangkok house or condo.

jas007 · May 9

Cheaper than Bangkok????

I can’t imagine. Sure, a person can pay a lot for a place in Bangkok, but to say that it’s cheaper in California is silly. To be sure, real estate in Bangkok will never be “equivalent” to real estate in Thailand. For example, the typical condo in Bangkok is smaller than the typical condo in Bangkok. Or the places in California will likely have bigger kitchens.

Also, I’m pretty sure the real estate taxes and insurance are much more costly in California.

I used to live in the San Diego area. Today, I’m sure I’m better off without having to worry about all the traffic and the insane cost of living there.

Cryingdick · May 10

Most of it is remote work. Get paid SF wages pay Austin prices. Although the trade is losing its value as prices are up everywhere. These days you pay top dollar just about anywhere that anybody has ever heard of or seen on a map.

it all comes down to money nobody leaves CA for a better climate.

GypsyT · May 11

15 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

It all comes down to money nobody leaves CA for a better climate.

Maybe for some, or most, but not for me.

I had money, good booming business and most friends were there. The house was paid for 25 yrs ago and taxes were low thanks to "original owners protection rule" against increases.

I left because I got tired sitting 2-4 h in traffic every day, including Sat & Sun in the end.

Also increased hostilities among people leading shooting and killing. Pollution wasn't that bad after CARB got engines cleaner but still eye watering in bad days.

Quality of life were going down for me.

I do miss many things there and have dreamed to go back but I don't think it never happens...

I don't even want to visit thanks thanks to high hotel and car rental prices. If I visit it's at least 20-30 days and that's expensive. Hell, I paid $6/day in Gran Canaria for 10 day rental last winter! In the US it's $ 45-75/day.

When home sick there I play this (the greatest song and the honest truth about California):

earlinclaifornia · May 11

Retirees in California are up against alot of disparities. Spending has to be a consideration offset by worth or value. So many people going nowhere in such a hurry. Retirees mostly viewed and treated as more of a nuisance. Few are willing to try the unfamilar or are resistant to any major change. Those that have ventured here see many positives we had when we were younger. Opposite of California elderly have a degree of respect in Asia, especialy Thailand.

GypsyT · May 12

Where in Thailand are you?

In Pattaya I see lonely old retireers, mainly men, who drink too much, don't care to look after their health and only social contact involves bars, drinking and bar girls. And the net, like AN where I know only ONE female taking part of very few conversations.

Thais see suckers and for sure there's very little respect...

Being old single farang in Thailand is like high security risk prisoner (like the BritMan said): Photos and finger prints every time you enter and leave. Plus 90 day BS. Is that respect?

I travel a lot but have never seen so paranoid officials.

Every city in California has a very large programs for retires and cheap daily meals.

Cheap hospitals are rare but thankfully churches run "pay what you can afford" health centers where you don't need give any information. Not even your name. I used them too but paid (donated) more than my regular doc's fee because I got in right the way.

In my experience Californian are more generous and helpful than most in other states. That's why taxes are high and poor people go there.

BritManToo · May 12

4 hours ago, GypsyT said:

In Pattaya I see lonely old retireers, mainly men, who drink too much, don't care to look after their health and only social contact involves bars, drinking and bar girls. And the net, like AN where I know only ONE female taking part of very few conversations

Sounds great, my retired pals back in the UK can't afford to go to bars, and spend all day sitting alone in their shed on allotments. Maybe it's different for old guys in California.

jas007 · May 13

Retirees? I don’t know about anyone else, but I don’t really think of myself as “retired,” even though I retired almost 18 years ago when I was 55. So I’m just myself, doing whatever I feel like doing. That’s pretty much the story of my life. I can’t say that I’ve changed much, other than the fact that I usually don’t stay out till 3AM on a regular basis. I could manage that in my 20s. Anyway, I figure the quickest way to become “old” is to start acting that way.

G_Money · May 13

Been wanting to pull the plug on California for years but…it’s called procrastination.

And now another 2 reasons. We already have the highest gasoline prices and electricity rates in the country. Increases coming in gasoline and electricity.

Very “authoritarian” dictators (Democrat leadership) telling us more and more everyday how to live. And they think Trump is a dictator.

Someone has to pay for freebies.

The golden era of the golden state are over.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/californias-secret-gas-tax-hike-coming-in-2025?cmpid=FNC_app#

GypsyT · May 13

America is a very funny country;

Republicans scream for "new tough laws" and want to "kick illegal immigrants out" but they approved (with dems) "special driver licenses" to them 🙂 in 19 states.

Why? Because their builder pals don't have enough workers. Very smart move (...but let's keep it secret...).

https://www.ncsl.org/immigration/states-offering-drivers-licenses-to-immigrants

heybruce · May 14

16 hours ago, G_Money said:

Been wanting to pull the plug on California for years but…it’s called procrastination.

And now another 2 reasons. We already have the highest gasoline prices and electricity rates in the country. Increases coming in gasoline and electricity.

Very “authoritarian” dictators (Democrat leadership) telling us more and more everyday how to live. And they think Trump is a dictator.

Someone has to pay for freebies.

The golden era of the golden state are over.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/californias-secret-gas-tax-hike-coming-in-2025?cmpid=FNC_app#

California is a dictatorship? I'm pretty sure they have elections. And get this, the losers in these elections respect the outcomes and the choices of the voters. Weird, isn't it?

G_Money · May 14

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

California is a dictatorship? I'm pretty sure they have elections. And get this, the losers in these elections respect the outcomes and the choices of the voters. Weird, isn't it?

Welcome back! I was under the impression you had passed away.

Glad you’re still with us. Roo Island missed you too.

GinBoy2 · May 14

15 hours ago, GypsyT said:

America is a very funny country;

Republicans scream for "new tough laws" and want to "kick illegal immigrants out" but they approved (with dems) "special driver licenses" to them 🙂 in 19 states.

Why? Because their builder pals don't have enough workers. Very smart move (...but let's keep it secret...).

https://www.ncsl.org/immigration/states-offering-drivers-licenses-to-immigrants

So this is getting off topic, but here goes.

I grew up as a kid of farm workers in the CA Central Valley. Drive down I-5 and you'll see a ton of uber right wing stuff about immigration.

The irony is that the same folks paying for all that stuff are the ones employing illegal immigrants to works in their fields.

My parents were legal but I'd say half of the other people they worked with were illegal, all paid by I'm sure fully paid up GOP members!

jas007 · May 14

America would be starving, but for the California farms and its agricultural sector. And those farms depend largely on transient, mostly illegal labor. It has been that way for years. And today, it’s not just farm labor. Construction, restaurants, manufacturing…. all profit from low cost imported labor. Anyway, I think most people don’t have a problem with people who want to work. Most citizens don’t want that kind of work, in any event.

On the other hand, the country can’t really afford millions of new people on welfare. As Milton Friedman put it, “you can have open borders, or you can have a welfare state, but you can’t have both.”

heybruce · May 16

On 5/14/2024 at 4:50 AM, GinBoy2 said:

So this is getting off topic, but here goes.

I grew up as a kid of farm workers in the CA Central Valley. Drive down I-5 and you'll see a ton of uber right wing stuff about immigration.

The irony is that the same folks paying for all that stuff are the ones employing illegal immigrants to works in their fields.

My parents were legal but I'd say half of the other people they worked with were illegal, all paid by I'm sure fully paid up GOP members!

I'm dealing with a recent tornado issue in my neighborhood in the US. Thank god for those immigrants!

I was amazed at how fast they were in removing trees from the tops of houses, blocking driveways and side-streets, and other essential places. Large tree removal in urban areas is difficult and potentially dangerous. Yes, they were paid (very well I hope) but they were very good in quickly and safely removing large trees and debris from places where people were trying to salvage their homes and get on with life.

I don't know if any or all of them were illegal and I don't care. This neighborhood, where my very elderly Mom also lives, would be in chaos without the work they'd done.

jas007 · May 16

6 hours ago, heybruce said:

I'm dealing with a recent tornado issue in my neighborhood in the US. Thank god for those immigrants!

I was amazed at how fast they were in removing trees from the tops of houses, blocking driveways and side-streets, and other essential places. Large tree removal in urban areas is difficult and potentially dangerous. Yes, they were paid (very well I hope) but they were very good in quickly and safely removing large trees and debris from places where people were trying to salvage their homes and get on with life.

I don't know if any or all of them were illegal and I don't care. This neighborhood, where my very elderly Mom also lives, would be in chaos without the work they'd done.

I had a similar problem, once upon a time. Two or three times, actually. Once I had to pay for the cleanup, the other two times the city picked up the tab because trees were blocking the road after they fell down. I’m not sure if the damage was caused by a tornado, but whatever it was must have been pretty strong.

Some pics.

EVENKEEL · May 18

On 5/14/2024 at 1:50 AM, GinBoy2 said:

So this is getting off topic, but here goes.

I grew up as a kid of farm workers in the CA Central Valley. Drive down I-5 and you'll see a ton of uber right wing stuff about immigration.

The irony is that the same folks paying for all that stuff are the ones employing illegal immigrants to works in their fields.

My parents were legal but I'd say half of the other people they worked with were illegal, all paid by I'm sure fully paid up GOP members!

I still call that area my home. Back in the day there were illegals picking peaches and other crops. When the season was over they moved on. They didn't bring the whole family with them. These laborers moved with the crops and sent money back to Mexico. I worked a large dairy through HS. No illegals in sight. You had Portuguese and poor whites like me. How was that possible?

Just because the illegals have a place in the fields doesn't mean we need them in Warehousing, construction, factories. I like Ca. and own several properties there. But, it's getting hard.

San Francisco is now giving free booze the alkies at a cost like 5 mil/yr

https://www.mantecabulletin.com/opinion/local-columns/san-franciscos-free-booze-shots-a-cot-homeless-strategy-versus-mantecas-efforts/

Cryingdick · May 21

On 5/16/2024 at 2:48 AM, heybruce said:

I'm dealing with a recent tornado issue in my neighborhood in the US. Thank god for those immigrants!

I was amazed at how fast they were in removing trees from the tops of houses, blocking driveways and side-streets, and other essential places. Large tree removal in urban areas is difficult and potentially dangerous. Yes, they were paid (very well I hope) but they were very good in quickly and safely removing large trees and debris from places where people were trying to salvage their homes and get on with life.

I don't know if any or all of them were illegal and I don't care. This neighborhood, where my very elderly Mom also lives, would be in chaos without the work they'd done.

The problem with this is your narrative is to thank god for immigrants. After that you admit you have no idea who did the work, or if any immigrants ts were actually involved.

so it leads the reader to forget whether or not these immigrants actually did the job that is implied and makes it seems like they saved your neighborhood from a tornado. That is border line delusional, pardon the pun.

irs like some people are happy for people to be exploited if the result is desirable for their own personal situation. I would hope most of the responders are Americans who you may mistake for (illegal) immigrants. I would hope that they hire certified linemen to remove debris and restore power.

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