Farangs Impact On Thailand

[uk_falang]

I know diddly squat about international economic.

How many farangs do you think there are who spend 6+ months per year in Thailand? I would estimate that to be about 1 million persons, plus tourists?

That would mean that about 1 in 60 people here is a farang - and many people I meet seem to be feeling unwelcome here and considering retirement or relocation elsewhere or back to their home countries.

If a Farangs spends about 10 times as much as a Thai - this surely will make a huge impact on the economy here.

As I understand it, Thailand spends a hige amount of dollars on Oil - more than they receive from its exports all together. If this is the case, surely the NEED foreign money coming into the country - it just cant be the case that the money cirulates within the economy and goods purchased and sold and everyone happy.

I understand that Thailand i strengthening the baht by removing money from circulation, but why are they doing this? Thailand is a perfect retirement option for many people and good for budget travellers. For those other travellers coming from USA and UK the price for getting here is so high that they need cheaper prices once they are here. And as for the high class traveller who spends thousands of dollars per day - well Thailand isnt really very appealing for them - or am i wrong.

The baht just hit 30 for the dollar and 60 for the pound! I cant understand why they are doing this??

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

travellers coming from USA and UK the price for getting here is so high that they need cheaper prices once they are here.

<snip>

The higher the travelling cost the better - keep out the riff-raff and get more "quality tourists".

[samran]

Look up the formula for calculating GDP and you'll find that your contribution doesn't even warrant a rounding error.

[backflip]

"I understand that Thailand i strengthening the baht by removing money from circulation, but why are they doing this?"

Your initial comment was that you don't understand international economics, and that's demonstrated by the above sentence. Too, your belief that there are a million farangs living in Thailand for more than 6 months is wrong wrong wrong.

"Thailand is a perfect retirement option for many people and good for budget travellers. For those other travellers coming from USA and UK the price for getting here is so high that they need cheaper prices once they are here."

Huh? If the prices are OK for the budget travellers, why would they be too high for more affluent people?

"And as for the high class traveller who spends thousands of dollars per day - well Thailand isnt really very appealing for them"

Why isn't Thailand appealing to them?

"- or am i wrong."

Bingo!

"The baht just hit 30 for the dollar and 60 for the pound! I cant understand why they are doing this??"

Your intial comment was that you didn't understand, and at least you are consistent. Who's "they"?

[roietjimmy]

By farangs, assume you mean people from Europe, USA, Canada, and Australia/New Zealand. 39% of all international tourists are from farang countries. The rest (61%) are from Asia, Africa or the Middle East. Asian countries are by far the biggest contributers at 54%.

Income from foriegn tourism is about 365,000,000,000 baht. So us farangs contribute 143,000,000,000 baht to Thailands income or about 2% of Thailands total GDP.

[chickencurry]

High class traveller (high worth traveller) - well, widely reported that Bill Gates and wife yachted round Phuket and one other forum mentioned that Beckham and family also visiting Phuket (oh no). Think they will probably spend a bit - though dont expect to see them in the Sunshine bar, but you never know.

[qwertz]

IMO, farangs sbouldn't overestimate their importance to Thailand.

I doubt if the whole tourist industry employs more than a million Thais.

The expat presence too has only slightly impacted the population and even less the culture.

[steveromagnino]

By farangs, assume you mean people from Europe, USA, Canada, and Australia/New Zealand. 39% of all international tourists are from farang countries. The rest (61%) are from Asia, Africa or the Middle East. Asian countries are by far the biggest contributers at 54%.

Income from foriegn tourism is about 365,000,000,000 baht. So us farangs contribute 143,000,000,000 baht to Thailands income or about 2% of Thailands total GDP.

Interested to know:

- where did you get the 365,000,000,000 from? Are you sure this is not total tourism?

- how did you calculate the 143,000,000,000 being the share from farangs? Have you factored in that farangs in general are lower spenders than say ME, Indian, Japanese, etc but stay a little longer (on average 14 days if I recall for some nationalities)?

To the OP, I just don't know where to start. But suffice to say you could work in economics for sure; nothing you said is verified or makes any sense.

It is just like reading a report about macro economics :_)

[Heng]

One could probably ask a half dozen different groups and they would quickly assume that they were the biggest spenders. It's human nature. I for one know that I am supporting millions if not billions of Thais through my orchid export biz.

[SiamSquare123]

"That would mean that about 1 in 60 people here is a farang - and many people I meet seem to be feeling unwelcome here and considering retirement or relocation elsewhere or back to their home countries."

This doesnt sound right

[bendix]

Oh, for the love of God.

Please, Lord, protect us from half-witted farangs who not only overestimate their own importance to Thailand BUT, in the process, mangle their mother tongue in trying to articulate their half-arsed ideas.

I guess I'll get a holiday for this. It's almost worth it just to feel the joy, the release, the sheer freedom of saying what is patently obvious to everyone. The OP is an idiot.

[torrenova]

Income from foriegn tourism is about 365,000,000,000 baht. So us farangs contribute 143,000,000,000 baht to Thailands income or about 2% of Thailands total GDP.

I don't believe that figure by miles, its far too low.

Also, and a more important factor, is the amount of the economy which is dependent on the initial tourist dollar. The guy fixing the motorbike for a living probably doesn't think about tourists but that motorbike is used as a motorbike taxi in a tourist area. QED, he eats because of tourism. Try and work out just how much of the economy is eventually dependent on tourism.

Remember that this is a country which wanted to pay for feighter jets with chickens or was it prawns !

[A_Traveller]

Not wishing to get in to spurious argument here, but some {dare I say} figures.

From TAT Website actuals for 2005 {Last data on the statistical area of the site}

International

2005

11.52 Million Visitors

Change -1.51 %

Days Spent in Thailand 8.20

Averages

Expenditure 3,890.13 THB per day per person Change % -4.13

Expenditure 367,380,000,000 THB per annum Change % -4.42

Breakdown:- {All THB are expressed in millions. Figures are Tourism receipts as expressed by TAT}

E. Asia 157,265.24 THB Stay 5.81

ASEAN 46,151.99 THB Stay 4.01 {SubSet of E Asia}

Europe 137,133.17 THB Stay 13.45

Americas 32,607.50 THB Stay 11.40

USA 25,527.39 THB Stay 11.46 {SubSet of Americas}

Sth Asia 11,050.86 THB Stay 5.82

Oceania 16,607.00 THB Stay 9.23

Mid East 11,051.97 THB Stay 9.28

Africa 1,664.62 THB Stay 6.74

Regards

PS I do miss a table editor herein.

PPS I do have a life so if anyone can find the GDP 2005 in Baht and do the math maybe we'd have a possible answer. I can only find % change right now.

/edit PPS //

Edited July 26, 2007 by A_Traveller

[allcladrad]

I know diddly squat about international economic.

How many farangs do you think there are who spend 6+ months per year in Thailand? I would estimate that to be about 1 million persons, plus tourists?

That would mean that about 1 in 60 people here is a farang - and many people I meet seem to be feeling unwelcome here and considering retirement or relocation elsewhere or back to their home countries.

If a Farangs spends about 10 times as much as a Thai - this surely will make a huge impact on the economy here.

As I understand it, Thailand spends a hige amount of dollars on Oil - more than they receive from its exports all together. If this is the case, surely the NEED foreign money coming into the country - it just cant be the case that the money cirulates within the economy and goods purchased and sold and everyone happy.

I understand that Thailand i strengthening the baht by removing money from circulation, but why are they doing this? Thailand is a perfect retirement option for many people and good for budget travellers. For those other travellers coming from USA and UK the price for getting here is so high that they need cheaper prices once they are here. And as for the high class traveller who spends thousands of dollars per day - well Thailand isnt really very appealing for them - or am i wrong.

The baht just hit 30 for the dollar and 60 for the pound! I cant understand why they are doing this??

I live in a province that has a population of 500,000 Thai, we foreigners number about 100, I don't know how many of those are farang.

[allane]

Good point ! It is awfully easy for some stupid farang to sit on his bar stool in Pattaya, Chiang Mai, Phuket or small sections of Bangkok, and conclude that Thailand revolves around us. It doesn't.

[kiakaha]

Income from foriegn tourism is about 365,000,000,000 baht. So us farangs contribute 143,000,000,000 baht to Thailands income or about 2% of Thailands total GDP.

I don't believe that figure by miles, its far too low.

Also, and a more important factor, is the amount of the economy which is dependent on the initial tourist dollar. The guy fixing the motorbike for a living probably doesn't think about tourists but that motorbike is used as a motorbike taxi in a tourist area. QED, he eats because of tourism. Try and work out just how much of the economy is eventually dependent on tourism.

Remember that this is a country which wanted to pay for feighter jets with chickens or was it prawns !

I'd rather go "long" on chicken and prawns than the USD right now.

[steveromagnino]

Income from foriegn tourism is about 365,000,000,000 baht. So us farangs contribute 143,000,000,000 baht to Thailands income or about 2% of Thailands total GDP.

I don't believe that figure by miles, its far too low.

Also, and a more important factor, is the amount of the economy which is dependent on the initial tourist dollar. The guy fixing the motorbike for a living probably doesn't think about tourists but that motorbike is used as a motorbike taxi in a tourist area. QED, he eats because of tourism. Try and work out just how much of the economy is eventually dependent on tourism.

Remember that this is a country which wanted to pay for feighter jets with chickens or was it prawns !

&lt;deleted&gt; all tourists use motorcycles; this is an industry that I know a bit about having done due diligence for a motorcycle manufacturer here; the impact of tourists on that particular industry is 2 bits of nothin'.

If you want to discuss the money cycle, then yes, the tourists would be directly and indirectly contributing many things. But to do that, you have to consider velocity and all that other stuff I cannot really remember/care about in macro economics.

The fighter deal, if you knew anything about politics, you would be aware that as a major backer of TRT, CP were left holding a massive amount of chicken; plus anyway, they ,well, have a lot of chicken. My own guess is that CP used TRT to try to broker a deal to get Thailand (the govt) to get them to offload their chicken at presumably market or higher than market prices to the govt, then the govt would trade the chicken instead of forex to the foreign govt at a lower price, and the tax payers would wear the difference.

Have you never wondered why:

- country was chicken flu free according to TRT when it wasn't?

- closed system doesn't get chicken flu, open (traditional system) does according to TRT (when that wasn't the case ) and then large payouts to CP associated contractors/directly owned farms to compensate for killed chickens (when traditional farmers were getting financially wiped out with &lt;deleted&gt; all help from the govt?)?

- why anti hyper market legislation kicks in at (either) 300sq m or 400 sqm ( I cannot remember which) which coincidentally is just a little bigger than a large 7:11? And why the mom and pop store lobbying is done by Thai retailers association which is headed up by people from 7:11? (note 7:11 branches are franchise/directly owned by CP, and supply many CP products)

- terms of FTAs seem to not have affected CP adversely, while some other food companies and producers have been hit hard?

Lobbying and funding govt has its benefits. Ask Halliburton, Enron et al.

Of course, as always, I could be completely wrong.

Edited July 27, 2007 by steveromagnino

[roietjimmy]

Tourism Statics for 2005 from TAT web site:

E. Asia: Tourism Receipts - 157,265,000,000, Visitors - 6,397,197, Days/stay - 5.8, Baht/stay - 24,583, Baht/day - 4,231

Mid East: Tourism Receipts - 11,051,000,000, Visitors - 292,562, Days/stay - 9.3, Baht/stay - 37,773, Baht/day - 4,070

Europe: Tourism Receipts - 137,133,000,000, Visitors - 2,848,846, Days/stay - 13.5, Baht/stay - 48,136, Baht/day - 3,579

Sth Asia: Tourism Receipts - 11,050,000,000, Visitors - 542,558, Days/stay - 5.8, Baht/stay - 20,366, Baht/day - 3,499

Oceania: Tourism Receipts - 16,607,000,000, Visitors - 516,223, Days/stay - 9.2, Baht/stay - 32,170, Baht/day - 3,485

Americas: Tourism Receipts - 32,607,000,000, Visitors - 833,814, Days/stay - 11.4, Baht/stay - 39,106, Baht/day - 3,430

Africa: Tourism Receipts - 1,664,000,000, Visitors - 85,736, Days/stay - 6.7, Baht/stay - 19,408, Baht/day - 2,880

Total Tourism Receipts - 367,377,000,000

Total Visitors -11,516,936

Farang tourism receipts - 186,347,000,000 Europe, Oceania, Americas

Thai GDP - 7,000,000,000,000 Average from several web sites

Farang tourist contribution to GDP 2.7%

For those who have commented the 2% I previously stated "was miles off" or simular, my deepest apologies. You were right, it is 2.7% based on 2005 figures and factoring in spending rather than using a percentage of visitors vs the total tourism receipts as I did before.

Spot on observation "farangs in general are lower spenders", farangs do spend less than many others. If I was in the tourism business my marketing money would be spent in Asia. They have by far the most visitors and spend the most per day.

Not sure what "Remember that this is a country which wanted to pay for feighter jets with chickens or was it prawns" has to do with farang impact on economy but barter trade deals are common throughout the world for government procurements. Several are currently being negotiated by the Thai govt. as we speak. "I'd rather go "long" on chicken and prawns than the USD right now" myself.

Agree, many Thais benefit financially from money farangs spend in Thailand. The TAT figures cover the lions share of income derived from tourism (hotels, resturants, bars and yes motorcycle rental businesses) but I doubt they include the "underground economy".

And, farang owned businesses, land owners and retirees certainly contribute to the GDP. To what degree, who knows. Reckon statistics abound but for now, giving credit to the Monty Python boys "my brain hurts"

[qwertz]

Re. the underground economy, i.e. vice, drugs, organised crime etc.

Those are figures which are never officially published.

It's big bucks for sure but can't be counted into official statistics.

[mellow1]

I suppose Farangs don't contribute much as seen on this thread.They are here living off the many unique and free social services.What a silly Farang I am having built a home for my family(who are Thai by the way),sending my son to a good private school,purchasing all the goods and services needed,having 2 full time employees(who support their families on the income),help out financially with countless Thai tragedies,assist various family members(none Farang)with whatever pops up.Not to mention constant interest free loans to employees.Spend a yearly income far exceeding many Thais.All things which I would think somehow contribute to the economy as well as to Thai people directly.But of course this is just a bucket of dog shit,and if theres 100 Farangs doing it ,well that makes 100 buckets of dog shit.I might not be good in economics but I'm getting the hang of numbers adding up these buckets.

[samran]

Tourism Statics for 2005 from TAT web site:

E. Asia: Tourism Receipts - 157,265,000,000, Visitors - 6,397,197, Days/stay - 5.8, Baht/stay - 24,583, Baht/day - 4,231

Mid East: Tourism Receipts - 11,051,000,000, Visitors - 292,562, Days/stay - 9.3, Baht/stay - 37,773, Baht/day - 4,070

Europe: Tourism Receipts - 137,133,000,000, Visitors - 2,848,846, Days/stay - 13.5, Baht/stay - 48,136, Baht/day - 3,579

Sth Asia: Tourism Receipts - 11,050,000,000, Visitors - 542,558, Days/stay - 5.8, Baht/stay - 20,366, Baht/day - 3,499

Oceania: Tourism Receipts - 16,607,000,000, Visitors - 516,223, Days/stay - 9.2, Baht/stay - 32,170, Baht/day - 3,485

Americas: Tourism Receipts - 32,607,000,000, Visitors - 833,814, Days/stay - 11.4, Baht/stay - 39,106, Baht/day - 3,430

Africa: Tourism Receipts - 1,664,000,000, Visitors - 85,736, Days/stay - 6.7, Baht/stay - 19,408, Baht/day - 2,880

Total Tourism Receipts - 367,377,000,000

Total Visitors -11,516,936

Farang tourism receipts - 186,347,000,000 Europe, Oceania, Americas

Thai GDP - 7,000,000,000,000 Average from several web sites

Farang tourist contribution to GDP 2.7%

For those who have commented the 2% I previously stated "was miles off" or simular, my deepest apologies. You were right, it is 2.7% based on 2005 figures and factoring in spending rather than using a percentage of visitors vs the total tourism receipts as I did before.

Spot on observation "farangs in general are lower spenders", farangs do spend less than many others. If I was in the tourism business my marketing money would be spent in Asia. They have by far the most visitors and spend the most per day.

Not sure what "Remember that this is a country which wanted to pay for feighter jets with chickens or was it prawns" has to do with farang impact on economy but barter trade deals are common throughout the world for government procurements. Several are currently being negotiated by the Thai govt. as we speak. "I'd rather go "long" on chicken and prawns than the USD right now" myself.

Agree, many Thais benefit financially from money farangs spend in Thailand. The TAT figures cover the lions share of income derived from tourism (hotels, resturants, bars and yes motorcycle rental businesses) but I doubt they include the "underground economy".

And, farang owned businesses, land owners and retirees certainly contribute to the GDP. To what degree, who knows. Reckon statistics abound but for now, giving credit to the Monty Python boys "my brain hurts"

Gotta say that you are looing at only half the picture - if indeed it is the right numbers you have dug up. Contribution to GDP is Exports-Imports (ie net exports). So, you need to look at the exports (ie tourist dollars are counted as exports for national accounting) minus what is spent on imports by the same tourists.

[anonymouse]

I'm pretty much with Mellow1 on this topic, Farang tourist contribution to GDP 2.7% is fair enough but this is just a small amount of the total picture. Here are a few examples - there are three girls sitting in my shop at the moment, none of them are working all are being financed by there farang boyfriends and I'm not talking small money. The Moo Baan I live in is at least 20% financed by farangs - each house costing around the 2m baht mark. One Moo Baan I visited had a 95% farang occupancy rate. No to mention the black economy, guys on retirement visa's, guys like myself who are running Business's here.

I'm not saying that Thailand revolves around us farangs but I do think that looking at just the tourist contribution doesn't give a fair representation, at the same time I'm sure if all us Farang went home they would get along just dandy without us!

[A_Traveller]

<snip> if indeed it is the right numbers you have dug up. <snip>

The figures are sourced for the official TAT Statistic section on their website and are actuals, see my post Post herein, which presumably you didn't see.

Regards

Edited July 27, 2007 by A_Traveller

[samran]

<snip> if indeed it is the right numbers you have dug up. <snip>

The figures are sourced for the official TAT Statistic section on their website and are actuals, see my post Post herein, which presumably you didn't see.

Regards

no doubt that tourism is an important money spinner for Thailand.

[A_Traveller]

An extract from a {translated} paper conducted by Fiscal Policy Research Institute (FPRI) Roengboon Klongkumnuankarn (TISC) [Thailand Investor Service Centre]

OVERVIEW

Tourism has played a significant role to Thai economy by appealing foreign revenues of about four billion baht a year. As a result, Thailand current account and balance of payment have been impacted positively. Tourism also leads to the expansion in some linking industries such as hotels, restaurants, transportation, retails, OTOP and souvenirs and so forth. All of these contributions cause the growth of GDP, employment, export, investment as well as the government expenditure.

According to BOT and TAT data, during 2000 to 2004, the tourism industry held the proportion to GDP around 7.7 percent at the current price, which comprised of the value contributed from tourism activity and non-tourism activity about 4.9 and 2.8 percent respectively. For employment, tourism industry has created employment directly and indirectly around 3.3 million jobs, 8.4 percent of the country employment during 2000 to 2004.

Since one of my frustrations here is getting to source data that has not been massaged though this made for interesting reading.

Links PDF Site

Regards

[samran]

now watch those who usually poo-poo any stat that comes out of a government department here champion these particular stats..

Or am I just becoming cyncial in my not too old age??

[chiang mai]

I know diddly squat about international economic.

How many farangs do you think there are who spend 6+ months per year in Thailand? I would estimate that to be about 1 million persons, plus tourists?

That would mean that about 1 in 60 people here is a farang - and many people I meet seem to be feeling unwelcome here and considering retirement or relocation elsewhere or back to their home countries.

If a Farangs spends about 10 times as much as a Thai - this surely will make a huge impact on the economy here.

As I understand it, Thailand spends a hige amount of dollars on Oil - more than they receive from its exports all together. If this is the case, surely the NEED foreign money coming into the country - it just cant be the case that the money cirulates within the economy and goods purchased and sold and everyone happy.

I understand that Thailand i strengthening the baht by removing money from circulation, but why are they doing this? Thailand is a perfect retirement option for many people and good for budget travellers. For those other travellers coming from USA and UK the price for getting here is so high that they need cheaper prices once they are here. And as for the high class traveller who spends thousands of dollars per day - well Thailand isnt really very appealing for them - or am i wrong.

The baht just hit 30 for the dollar and 60 for the pound! I cant understand why they are doing this??

I live in a province that has a population of 500,000 Thai, we foreigners number about 100, I don't know how many of those are farang.

Just so that you don't make the mistake again, a farang is a foreigner and vica versa.

[A_Traveller]

Just so that you don't make the mistake again, a farang is a foreigner and vica versa.

No, a farang is a Caucasian foreigner.

Regards

[mellow1]

Sorry I had to leave this hot topic ,but one of my insignificant services was again needed by non-Farangs.

This topic leaves out the question of how many Farangs Live here as permanent guests, probably a number protected for national security reasons.I have yet to find this,and I'm sure some of the more computer savvy members could possibly come up with it.Now imagine this number and multiply the average bank balance for expats 600,000(retirement 8 Thai wife 4) multiply this by the magic number X(# of expats),I'm sure it will come out to an insignificant amount.Now add all the houses,condos,Land,rents paid,businesses,cars,motorcycles,monthly pensions spent here.Thais being directly supported.I'm sure it will be peanuts.

This is not to even mention foreign aid and loans which have been given to Thailand.Construction of infrastructure,arms for the military.These are just a few insignificant things which pop into my head without any research.Of course this has had absolutely no impact at all on Thailand.It's no wonder the Farangs are considered worthless and can be readily discarded,especially since so many of their own numbers readily agree.Were all of these worthless economic factors to disappear,I'm sure it would not even cause a ripple on this tranquil economy.

[steveromagnino]

Just so that you don't make the mistake again, a farang is a foreigner and vica versa.

No, a farang is a Caucasian foreigner.

Regards

actually I can think of a few farangs that are Thai nationals, and therefore are not foreigners at all.

Best thing that could ever happen to THailand would be to build up the local economy so we weren't reliant on burning through the natural resources that are destroyed in producing tourism dollars.

Then our children's children would have something a whole lot more beautiful to inherit.

But no....let's just concentrate on tourism as it is 'so important'..............screw that. Sustainable tourism; quality not quantity, and let's build genuine real industry. Tourism is the worst crutch for Thailand and a total mixed blessing; a little like the USA involvement/investment in Thailand in the 1960/70s.