Global Warming still Confusing You?: Don't know Albedo from Albino???

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Surasak said:

"According to the attached link, more than 61,000 people died from heat-related causes in Europe alone, in 2022."

Not surprising when most of the 'heat' related causes were due to the lack of gas to heat the houses. That was about the time Gazprom collapsed I believe?

Read the link, it says the deaths were related to heat waves, nothing to do with winter.

 

Sanctions were applied after February 2022, Russia first applied supply limits to Poland and Bulgaria in April, when they refused to pay . Gazprom did not cut off supply through Nordstream until August 22. The tactic backfired when the winter of 22/23 was unusually mild.

 

Facts can be so damn inconvenient.

[johng]

@Lacessit

 

You did not hear the news that Germany smarting from the gas restrictions where in talks with Russia to re establish gas flow...then miraculously the pipeline was blown up  making sure 100%  that they had to rely on much more expensive imports of gas...from whom ?

 

Who would be imposing the massive penalties for breach of contract

if the contract could not be honoured due to illegal sanctions on equipment being supplied to one party.

 

Not to mention Biden himself saying on video that the pipeline one way or another would be stopped.

 

 

Edited May 6 by johng

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, johng said:

@Lacessit

 

You did not hear the news that Germany smarting from the gas restrictions where in talks with Russia to re establish gas flow...then miraculously the pipeline was blown up  making sure 100%  that they had to rely on much more expensive imports of gas...from whom ?

 

Who would be imposing the massive penalties for breach of contract

if the contract could not be honoured due to illegal sanctions on equipment being supplied to one party.

 

Not to mention Biden himself saying on video that the pipeline one way or another would be stopped.

 

 

It's another hypothesis. I don't consider it to be as likely, mainly because the political ramifications of the USA blowing up Russian infrastructure supplying German industry don't even bear thinking about.

 

The massive penalties for breach of contract - apparently billions - would be demanded by the Germans.

 

What illegal sanctions? IIRC it was Russia who illegally annexed Crimea in 2014, then repeated the dose in the Donbas in 2022.

[GammaGlobulin]

2 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

I'm sorry but I can't discuss this topic with you. I was trying to be helpful by giving you a link and now I find myself on the receiving end of a lecture about the objectives of the media, lessons in pseudo science and how an excess of coke cans is displacing seawater!  Please, just leave it there between us. 

 

 

 

Hmmm...

It might seem, using the example of dumping of garbage into the oceans, to explain sea-level rise that....

It might be equally logical to surmise that if we could just do more fishing of Bluefin Tuna, then...

By pulling more fish out of the oceans, this might help ameliorate flooding in Miami due to rising tides.

 

Sounds logical....but....

 

PS:  Most of sea-level rise is attributable to the expansion of ocean water as it warms, even by a fraction of a degree C.  It is not what is being put into the oceans, but the expansion of ocean water, due to warming of the oceans.

 

 

Edited May 6 by GammaGlobulin

[Lacessit]

6 hours ago, susanlea said:

Let me know when you have some new information worth reading. So far you have posted incorrect information and nonsense.

Let me know when you cease begging the question, and stop showering abuse on people who are better qualified than you will ever be.

 

You do not respond to requests for your own scientific qualifications and experience. You probably have none.

 

IMO you are simply a dishonest troll.

[HK MacPhooey]

4 hours ago, ibjoe said:

Humans caused Climate Change,and only humans can mitigate it. We have passed the "tipping point", Climate Change will continue to get worse. Vast populations will be displaced, partly due to rising sea levels, and as those people seek new lands to live on there will be conflicts and wars. Now is a good time to focus on mitigating this looming catastrophe, mainly by avoiding petroleum energy. Green energy industry will provide many jobs and a better environment. Fossil fuel corporate interests will dispute this and supply much obfuscating propaganda to encourage doubt. China is largest contributor to greenhouse gases, followed by USA, EU, and Russia, in that order.

Bowie told us we had Five Years back in 1973 - if we couldn't trust Bowie back then why should we trust your unsubstantiated fear-mongering now?

[susanlea]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Let me know when you cease begging the question, and stop showering abuse on people who are better qualified than you will ever be.

 

You do not respond to requests for your own scientific qualifications and experience. You probably have none.

 

IMO you are simply a dishonest troll.

You posted heat deaths alone. Dishonest and not credible. You are what you accuse others of being.

 

After 120 years of climate change the beach today was great. Your climate scam is not credible like yourself. 

[johng]

16 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

What illegal sanctions? IIRC it was Russia who illegally annexed Crimea in 2014, then repeated the dose in the Donbas in 2022.

 

The illegal sanctions imposed on Russian  industries and finance.

Gazprom was apparently denied essential equipment that would have allowed the pipeline to re-open...and then it was blown up to make sure it never did.

 

23 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

the political ramifications of the USA blowing up Russian infrastructure supplying German industry don't even bear thinking about.

And so blame it on Putin conveniently he's a mad man right  only a mad man would do such a thing ?

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, johng said:

 

The illegal sanctions imposed on Russian  industries and finance.

Gazprom was apparently denied essential equipment that would have allowed the pipeline to re-open...and then it was blown up to make sure it never did.

 

And so blame it on Putin conveniently he's a mad man right  only a mad man would do such a thing ?

Gazprom claims it was denied essential equipment. When did you start believing what Russians say?

 

Gazprom is part of the Siloviki, their interests and Putin's are not necessarily the same.

 

 

[susanlea]

22 minutes ago, HK MacPhooey said:

Bowie told us we had Five Years back in 1973 - if we couldn't trust Bowie back then why should we trust your unsubstantiated fear-mongering now?

Nobody trusts alarmists. They are widely mocked daily. Then they return to their homes surrounded by goods made by fossil fuels whilst yelling abuse at people who don't agree with their made up theories.

[HK MacPhooey]

4 hours ago, ibjoe said:

Humans caused Climate Change,and only humans can mitigate it. We have passed the "tipping point", Climate Change will continue to get worse. Vast populations will be displaced, partly due to rising sea levels, and as those people seek new lands to live on there will be conflicts and wars. Now is a good time to focus on mitigating this looming catastrophe, mainly by avoiding petroleum energy. Green energy industry will provide many jobs and a better environment. Fossil fuel corporate interests will dispute this and supply much obfuscating propaganda to encourage doubt. China is largest contributor to greenhouse gases, followed by USA, EU, and Russia, in that order.

Bowie told us we had Five Years back in 1973 - if we couldn't trust Bowie back then why should we trust your unsubstantiated fear-mongering now?

[ibjoe]

21 hours ago, HK MacPhooey said:

Bowie told us we had Five Years back in 1973 - if we couldn't trust Bowie back then why should we trust your unsubstantiated fear-mongering now?

 

Thank you for your post demonstrating the futility of debate with a denier. Your stated issue is irrelevant to the current situation.

 

Anyway, I don't ask anyone to trust me. I encourage people to do their own research on the available data and make their own conclusions. Making this more difficult is propaganda saturation covertly sponsored by petro corporate interests. For example "reports" that cherry pick data and convolute reasoning, or use of related distracting issues, anything to make deniers feel good about their perspectives. Sticking to well established data about things, like year over year changes in CO2 levels, temperature changes, ocean levels, etc. can help make it more clear.

 

You could turn this around and say - but the people that are warning us are also using these techniques to make non-deniers feel good. However people that are aware of climate change issues generally don't feel good about them, and they tend to stick to the facts, though they may elaborate on occasion. Entities with vested interest in mitigation, such as alternative energy, may promote their potential solutions, even in unrealistically optimistic manner.

 

I'm a skeptic, I don't accept positions of either side without doing my own investigation. At this point there is a lot more data supporting we are experiencing climate change now, it will get worse, humans promote it, and humans could mitigate it if they act aggressively enough quickly enough, which I doubt they will.

 

[susanlea]

1 hour ago, ibjoe said:

 

Thank you for your post demonstrating the futility of debate with a denier. Your stated issue is irrelevant to the current situation.

 

Anyway, I don't ask anyone to trust me. I encourage people to do their own research on the available data and make their own conclusions. Making this more difficult is propaganda saturation covertly sponsored by petro corporate interests. For example "reports" that cherry pick data and convolute reasoning, or use of related distracting issues, anything to make deniers feel good about their perspectives. Sticking to well established data about things, like year over year changes in CO2 levels, temperature changes, ocean levels, etc. can help make it more clear.

 

You could turn this around and say - but the people that are warning us are also using these techniques to make non-deniers feel good. However people that are aware of climate change issues generally don't feel good about them, and they tend to stick to the facts, though they may elaborate on occasion. Entities with vested interest in mitigation, such as alternative energy, may promote their potential solutions, even in unrealistically optimistic manner.

 

I'm a skeptic, I don't accept positions of either side without doing my own investigation. At this point there is a lot more data supporting we are experiencing climate change now, it will get worse, humans promote it, and humans could mitigate it if they act aggressively enough quickly enough, which I doubt they will.

 

Climate has not gotten worse apart from localised air pollution which is caused by farm burnoffs, old factories and cars.

 

I assume you flew on a plane to Thailand, wear clothes and ride in Grab vehicles or similar. Then type using a computer. All created using fossil fuels.

 

 

 

[ibjoe]

9 hours ago, susanlea said:

Climate has not gotten worse apart from localised air pollution which is caused by farm burnoffs, old factories and cars.

 

I assume you flew on a plane to Thailand, wear clothes and ride in Grab vehicles or similar. Then type using a computer. All created using fossil fuels.

 

 

 

 

"Climate has not gotten worse..." Unsubstantiated statement. If you define climate and pick your data in such a way to support your statement, you could probably arrange that, and then you could have debatable material.

 

Whether or not I (and others) use only available forms of energy is not relevant. It is not hypocrisy. When choice is available I will gladly pick alternative energy options, including at a price premium. I support and promote energy conservation, and alternate energy sources including solar, wind, ocean, thermal, and nuclear. I realize they all have both advantages and disadvantages.

[susanlea]

4 hours ago, ibjoe said:

 

"Climate has not gotten worse..." Unsubstantiated statement. If you define climate and pick your data in such a way to support your statement, you could probably arrange that, and then you could have debatable material.

 

Whether or not I (and others) use only available forms of energy is not relevant. It is not hypocrisy. When choice is available I will gladly pick alternative energy options, including at a price premium. I support and promote energy conservation, and alternate energy sources including solar, wind, ocean, thermal, and nuclear. I realize they all have both advantages and disadvantages.

Nobody cares what energy sources you support. You are a non vip amongst 8bn others. If it wasn't for fossil fuels you, your parents and grandparents would have lived in poverty along with 99% of others.

[susanlea]

4 hours ago, ibjoe said:

Unsubstantiated statement

Not all at. Known fact cold kills more than heat does so global warming has saved millions of lives. Also crop production has increased by enormous levels since 1950 if you bothered to look. All driven by fossil fuels which feed people and create wealth. If you don't like warmer temperatures why did you move from a colder european nation to Thailand? Thailand is a hot tropical country. Go live in a cold country if you prefer cold. 

Edited May 8 by susanlea

[ibjoe]

On 5/6/2024 at 1:01 PM, johng said:

 well according to your list I'm  a number 2 and 3 denier 😋

 

2) There is climate change,

but it's not influenced by human activity.(much)
3) There is climate change, but the effects are good for the environment (e.g. plants utilize CO2).

 

Thank you for your candor. Do you have any interest in reviewing the data and science about these perspectives?

 

[susanlea]

17 hours ago, ibjoe said:

 

Thank you for your candor. Do you have any interest in reviewing the data and science about these perspectives?

 

What difference would that make? You can't do anything. Might as well eat coconuts and forget about it.

[ibjoe]

On 5/9/2024 at 1:54 PM, susanlea said:

What difference would that make? You can't do anything. Might as well eat coconuts and forget about it.

Many people will agree with your "ignorance is bliss" statement. And many people do care and do take personal actions to mitigate this ongoing climate change problem. Things YOU personally can do *now* are reduce your energy consumption, make your home energy efficient, choose vehicles with good MPG or are electric, choose high efficiency appliances, turn off things when not in use. Disposition your fossil fuels investments if you have them. Raise awareness by discussing the issues with friends and family, join activist groups. Also, reduce or stop eating meat - animal agriculture creates more greenhouse gas than transportation. Thank you to those who care, for being part of the solution, and not part of the problem.