National Service in the UK. Good idea or never get off the ground

[Denim]

Apparently , the PM has an idea to re introduce this , with options.

 

• Sweden, Norway, France and Denmark reintroduced national service recently 

 

[Denim]

Personally , I can't see it happening . Non starter with too many problems bound to arise.

[bob smith]

The Tory party will be smashed into oblivion on July 4th, so whatever rishi says now wont make a blind bit of difference come polling day.

 

bob.

Edited May 26 by bob smith

[richard_smith237]

I think national service is a good idea... 

 

Not from a 'military point of view'... but from a discipline point of view... it would sort out of a lot of societal issues (IMO), it would certainly deal with a degree aimlessness that blights the minds of many inner-city kids who struggle to see a future and become delinquent - perhaps I'm sounding like a boomer...  but thats they way I see it.

 

When younger, national service was something I always fancied, perhaps because of fathers frond memories of such service (in the RAF at which time he was very tempted to remain and become an officer).

 

There was some mind numbingly dumb stuff which I'm sure I'd have hated... 

 

Realistically - I don't think this would happen in the UK.. its too much of a 'sharp turn around'... I suspect it would be the death knell of any government campaign.

 

There are away too many spoilt privileged kids who simply don't want to experience anything difficult... but that would be 'character building'...  and perhaps something they'd be able to build upon.

 

Then there is the WMD disaster - no parent wants their kids going to war on the back of a legacy of lies...  for this reason alone the distrust of the government will take generations before something such as national service is accepted without nationwide protest.

 

 

 

 

 

[scubascuba3]

Should be national service at 18 unless you have a job and then specify criteria for a job so people don't play the system

Edited May 26 by scubascuba3

[Denim]

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Realistically - I don't think this would happen in the UK.. its too much of a 'sharp turn around'... I suspect it would be the death knell of any government campaign.

 

Yes. Look at the protests over the poll tax.  I think the protests that would follow trying to implement this would be on a par. 

 

Also , the idea of giving some of these reluctant recruits a loaded weapon of any description , even on a range , would likely be a recipe for mayhem.

[Hamus Yaigh]

It makes no difference like the Rwanda plan, just a last gasp election ploy. The Tories will be out of office from 4-Jul.

[richard_smith237]

Just now, Denim said:

Also , the idea of giving some of these reluctant recruits a loaded weapon of any description , even on a range , would likely be a recipe for mayhem.

 

We let them drive !!!... 

 

When I look back on my school years, its quite frightening to consider some of the dullards driving on the same roads I do...   reading some of the replies on this forum often gives me cause for similar concern !!! 

 

 

But... National Service could be put to a lot of good..

Driving courses, safety, first aid training, electrical safety and many other practical and social skills.....

Its not just about 'guns & shoot'n'

[billd766]

IMO it takes a few months to fully train people and if they only do 2 years it is not really worth the time and trouble to train them unless they will be cannon fodder.

 

However if they are trained to do civilian tasks, the whole country could benefit.

 

One problem is they need to be paid a decent rate rather than less than the minimum wage.

 

I don't think that many people in the UK would be happy about the idea though.

[billd766]

8 minutes ago, Hamus Yaigh said:

It makes no difference like the Rwanda plan, just a last gasp election ploy. The Tories will be out of office from 4-Jul.

They most probably will be, but it is who will take their place that worries me.

 

Personally I will vote for the Monster Raving Loony party if they have a candidate standing, but It won't be the Tory, Labour or Lib Dem candidate, which doesn't leave much else to choose from.

[nglodnig]

This would be a sure-fire vote killer for thoses in the 18-25 range - but then as they can't be bothered to vote anyway it won't make any difference 🙂 "Vote? where's the app on my phone for that?"

[retarius]

From my perspective the UK is pushing escalation of a European war, and has posed relentlessly for it. If I had a child of military age I'd send him to the US or Canada for his tertiary education and early work experience. Having said that there don't seem to be many prospects for kids in the UK, maybe I'd send the kids anyway. 

[transam]

13 minutes ago, retarius said:

From my perspective the UK is pushing escalation of a European war, and has posed relentlessly for it. If I had a child of military age I'd send him to the US or Canada for his tertiary education and early work experience. Having said that there don't seem to be many prospects for kids in the UK, maybe I'd send the kids anyway. 

Good idea, you could join them.........

But of course you have conveniently forgot to peace time during 1918 and 1939, when the alias took their eyes off the ball to let Germany build a massive army to start another war.

This time around, the UK and the EU haven't, as we're now dealing with a Hitler Mk.II.

 

Though I think you will be OK in Canada......

[connda]

I personally believe that every person who is pro-conscription and who has not previously served in their country's military, regardless of their age, should immediately be conscripted to serve their county just like they are asserting that "young people" should be required to do. 

 

Likewise - every war-hawk who believes that "young people" should be conscripted and sent to fight "the enemies of the State" should be immediately conscripted, handed a rifle, given a few weeks of basic training, and sent to the front - regardless of age!  This goes double for government bureaucrats and politicians.  If you're Pro-War and have never served in the military?  You need to be voluteered to go to the front and fight for whatever b******t reason that you're all to willing to send your country's youth to fight.  If the bureaucrats and politicians were suddenly put into harm's way - they'd all sing a different tune and look for diplomatic solutions. 

Happy Memorial Day

Signed,
An Anti-War US Veteran
 

 

Edited May 26 by connda

[GroveHillWanderer]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I think national service is a good idea... 

 

Not from a 'military point of view'... but from a discipline point of view... it would sort out of a lot of societal issues (IMO), it would certainly deal with a degree aimlessness that blights the minds of many inner-city kids who struggle to see a future and become delinquent - perhaps I'm sounding like a boomer...  but thats they way I see it.

 

When younger, national service was something I always fancied, perhaps because of fathers frond memories of such service (in the RAF at which time he was very tempted to remain and become an officer).

 

There was some mind numbingly dumb stuff which I'm sure I'd have hated... 

 

Realistically - I don't think this would happen in the UK.. its too much of a 'sharp turn around'... I suspect it would be the death knell of any government campaign.

 

There are away too many spoilt privileged kids who simply don't want to experience anything difficult... but that would be 'character building'...  and perhaps something they'd be able to build upon.

 

Then there is the WMD disaster - no parent wants their kids going to war on the back of a legacy of lies...  for this reason alone the distrust of the government will take generations before something such as national service is accepted without nationwide protest.

I would have thought it's a pretty good bet that anyone who falls into the category of "kids who simply don't want to experience anything difficult" and probably the majority of those who have "societal issues" would just go for the second option - one weekend a month doing some kind of community service.

 

24 days a year doing something relatively easy and straightforward, or 365 days in the military - I think I know what they'd choose.

 

Not that this is ever going to happen mind, since the Tories haven't got a snowball's chance in hell of winning this election.

[WorriedNoodle]

Loads of young people already do voluntary work - this hasn’t occurred to the Tories purely because they would never do anything like that themselves.

 

Frankie Boyle said that.

[theblether]

I've been in favour of this for years with some provisos. 

 

1. Male and female service. If its men only, I'm against it. 

2. 90 day mandatory military training followed by voluntary streaming into either civic or military service. 

3. A complete ban on front line service. No one on national service should be sent to a war zone under any circumstances. 

 

The civic service possibilities are endless. From assisting in British and foreign hospitals, to streaming trainee teachers into overseas posts. 

 

The 90 day military training is essential to codify discipline. And I accept many will find that punishing. However, once that period is over it could be/should be an enjoyable life enhancing experience. 

[theblether]

50 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

I would have thought it's a pretty good bet that anyone who falls into the category of "kids who simply don't want to experience anything difficult" and probably the majority of those who have "societal issues" would just go for the second option - one weekend a month doing some kind of community service.

 

24 days a year doing something relatively easy and straightforward, or 365 days in the military - I think I know what they'd choose.

 

Not that this is ever going to happen mind, since the Tories haven't got a snowball's chance in hell of winning this election.

 

How about 90 days military training followed by nine months in Thailand as a classroom assistant. Would you have signed up for that aged 18? 

[theblether]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

We let them drive !!!... 

 

When I look back on my school years, its quite frightening to consider some of the dullards driving on the same roads I do...   reading some of the replies on this forum often gives me cause for similar concern !!! 

 

 

But... National Service could be put to a lot of good..

Driving courses, safety, first aid training, electrical safety and many other practical and social skills.....

Its not just about 'guns & shoot'n'

 

Correct - too many people regard the concept as a form of punishment. Your points are excellent. Loads of people would sign up for a years worth of modules including the issues you mentioned. 

[rocketboy2]

Hey government, 

Leave them kids alone. 

 

 

[BangkokReady]

Sounds like a re-hash of Cameron's "National Citizen Service".  Or, "National Service without the service".

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-launches-national-citizen-service-pilots--2

 

They probably think that by mentioning "National Service" it will get the old people on board, conjuring images of unruly teens being given what for!

Edited May 26 by BangkokReady

[Ben Zioner]

Well my 3 years were a good time, I could pursue my studies and the country benefitted. And the ragheads added some spice in 1973. 

 

[Keeps]

Today's snowflakes will be outraged that anyone can tell them what to do and most likely burst into tears the first time that anyone in a position of authority shouts at them.

 

As many have pointed out above, the Tories will be smashed out of sight on the 4th July so this proposal will never get off the ground.

[Bday Prang]

Real national service probably wouldn't be a bad thing , But once the alphabet community start getting called up it will become some sort of a pathetic woke joke.  It will never happen I reckon a hung parliament is looming, expect very little to happen now for the foreseeable future unless a full blown war forces their hand.  Except of course the continuing islamisation 

[Bday Prang]

2 minutes ago, Keeps said:

Today's snowflakes will be outraged that anyone can tell them what to do and most likely burst into tears the first time that anyone in a position of authority shouts at them.

 

As many have pointed out above, the Tories will be smashed out of sight on the 4th July so this proposal will never get off the ground.

Human rights lawyers will have a field day,      I can just see it now "have you been misgendered by the military? phone the claims hotline today, No win no fee"

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, connda said:

Likewise - every war-hawk who believes that "young people" should be conscripted and sent to fight "the enemies of the State" should be immediately conscripted, handed a rifle, given a few weeks of basic training, and sent to the front - regardless of age!  This goes double for government bureaucrats and politicians. 

Agree 100%. I'd love to see most of the US congress sent to Ukraine to serve in the front line ( including Biden, who avoided the military during Vietnam ).

 

I think any politician that hasn't served should be banned from voting on any war declaration.

 

I think it's a bit rich that there are plenty of posters on here that have never served, but wanting a couple of wars, while not prepared to put themselves in harm's way. It's OK for other people to die, apparently.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, theblether said:

The 90 day military training is essential to codify discipline. And I accept many will find that punishing.

I don't know why it would be punishing, except for snowflakes never had discipline in their lives. The only problem for me doing it was some of the fellow recruits which were not nice people. The actual training was mostly enjoyable, even drill, though I always dreaded being put into a position of being marker.

[gargamon]

23 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The only problem for me doing it was some of the fellow recruits which were not nice people.

Got beat up a lot, huh? I can understand that. From most of your posts here, I would have beat you up too.

Edited May 26 by gargamon

[GinBoy2]

Curiously in the US we do it slightly differently.

 

We don't have benefit the culture you have in the UK, so young men and women find the idea of enlisting in the military rather appealing, not bad income, good benefits and free housing.

 

Beats living in some dead beat job flipping burgers.

 

I'm a bleeding heart liberal, but from what I read about welfare in in the UK it's insane. "My mental health is so fragile I can't work, I need a handout".

 

Give me a break, guys came back from WW2 after experiencing total horrors and went back to work

Edited May 27 by GinBoy2

[actonion]

Ever seen that  "Lads Army" program , that's what this idea will be like. Kids that don't /won't , be told, fighting their superiors, total disaster idea, and i'm sure the  military dont want them.

.

Military young offenders prisons would be a good starter, do as you're told, or solitary confinement etc.