Standing On A Coin

[Pink Mist]

One of the rudest things you can do to offend a Thai is show them the sole of your foot

It is kind of weird that foot massage is so popular here. I mean if the foot is so offensive, then someone who rubs feet all day for a job must be considered the lowest of the low?

The bottom of the foot is offensive in that the Thais perceive the head as the entry point for all the good things...this why you shouldnt touch the top of a Thais head as you interupt the good going in.

The bottom of the foot is where the bad comes out, which is why it is rude to point your feet at someone or use your foot to point... you are sending bad things to them...

There are all sorts of amulets, charms and things in Thailand to protect people from harm or bad spirits...it would not surprise to find that Foot masseuses would either be wearing them or going to the temple a lot.

...but it’s OK for a Thai boxer to kick the head…the bad foot kicking the good head…confusing indeed.

Perhaps the desire to avoid insult is why Thai boxers try to AVOID being kicked in the head.

I reckon getting knocked out might have summat to do with it also

[migs]

My gf is very particular about making sure banknotes are not upside down in her purse.

[A_Traveller]

On the 'throwing the note' point, I always try {when it is practical} to present money with my right hand and support my arm with my left hand. This is the polite Thai way, those who use both hands to the note are, either intentionally or not, using a Chinese tradition.

By the by offering money in this manner often raises a smile and polite nod even in a busy supermarket.

Regards

[page449]

On the 'throwing the note' point, I always try {when it is practical} to present money with my right hand and support my arm with my left hand. This is the polite Thai way, those who use both hands to the note are, either intentionally or not, using a Chinese tradition.

By the by offering money in this manner often raises a smile and polite nod even in a busy supermarket.

Regards

You got it Gulliver. It doesn't pay to be a Wrongender.

[gburns57au]

well my wife told me that you can not stand on the king, i understand the respect thing, so i enquiredj so why is it ok to put notes in to my arse pocket, why is it ok for women to put money in there bikinis, down there bra etc, response because its ok.

You really don't expect that anyone has the answer to that, do you?

Answered in the third post of this thread....

[gburns57au]

On the 'throwing the note' point, I always try {when it is practical} to present money with my right hand and support my arm with my left hand. This is the polite Thai way, those who use both hands to the note are, either intentionally or not, using a Chinese tradition.

By the by offering money in this manner often raises a smile and polite nod even in a busy supermarket.

Regards

The polite smile is a defense against outright laughing....

This manner of presenting a note is fine when donating to a monk or formal surroundings...doesnt really apply to the local shopkeeper

[gburns57au]

The AOT airport limousine person tried to pull that guilt trip on me about the king on the 1000 baht note and how I should not "throw" the money to her. So asked for the money, I "slid' the note to her.

Are we supposed kneel, genufliict or present all money in a 2 handed offering with angel music in the background?

Apparently so with this idiot person who must enjoy using that ruse on all foreigners.

There should be a special law for those people who try to hold you hostage based on their interpretation of who is disrespecting the king.

If I worked in a position where I had to accept money as a part of the job, I wouldnt appreciate people "throwing money" at me either, It is an extremely rude thing to do anywhere in the world.

[A_Traveller]

On the 'throwing the note' point, I always try {when it is practical} to present money with my right hand and support my arm with my left hand. This is the polite Thai way, those who use both hands to the note are, either intentionally or not, using a Chinese tradition.

By the by offering money in this manner often raises a smile and polite nod even in a busy supermarket.

Regards

The polite smile is a defense against outright laughing....

This manner of presenting a note is fine when donating to a monk or formal surroundings...doesnt really apply to the local shopkeeper

You are entitled to you opinion, however, this has worked for me for several decades without any undue hysteria.

Regards

[ColPyat]

There is no rule for all occasions. Handing money the polite way is never really a mistake, but in case of a normal everyday situation, like paying for your groceries or a busticket i would say that it is over the top. Best idea is behaving according to situation. Some more formal occasions demand formal behavior, and every day situations won't.

I have seen people picking up coins so that nobody can step accidentally on it and the head of the king, but then, people here have coin flicking games as well.

[A_Traveller]

Was going to edit above but my connexion died. To clarify I do differentiate between formal and informal, in otherwords the action is more a gesture rather then the process, if you follow me. Still think being polite is wiser than being wilfully ignorant, as in 'throwing the money'. In China again I'd always endeavour to use two hands, same principal.

Regards

[JetsetBkk]

On the 'throwing the note' point, I always try {when it is practical} to present money with my right hand and support my arm with my left hand. This is the polite Thai way, those who use both hands to the note are, either intentionally or not, using a Chinese tradition.

By the by offering money in this manner often raises a smile and polite nod even in a busy supermarket.

Regards

I'm left-handed and have just realised that I always hold my wallet in my right hand and take out money, and give it, with my left. Oops.

[Tywais]

I'm left-handed and have just realised that I always hold my wallet in my right hand and take out money, and give it, with my left. Oops.

The problem with using the left hand is due to its' "other" use.

[ColPyat]

Was going to edit above but my connexion died. To clarify I do differentiate between formal and informal, in otherwords the action is more a gesture rather then the process, if you follow me. Still think being polite is wiser than being wilfully ignorant, as in 'throwing the money'. In China again I'd always endeavour to use two hands, same principal.

Regards

Throwing money i reserve for when i am really pissed off with somebody. Which is rather rare.

But yes, as in every culture, being polite helps always.

[WaiWai]

Many first-time tourists either won't believe, or will treat lightly, these snippets of information. Some of them also find it difficult to understand that criticism of certain people is unlawful. The astonishment usually quietens them down when the penalties are mentioned. I never cease to be amazed how many tourists seem to think that they are immune to local laws - quite often the same ones who are disrespectful of local customs. And of course, when it comes to the yobbos (the low-life), you can't tell them anything...

I have no trouble understanding why some people might find it difficult to absorb the seriousness of these taboos. It's one thing to understand intellectually, but another thing entirely to internalize the belief. I fear doing something like GaryA, unthinkingly ( un- think - king -ly) and reflexively, and landing in trouble.

[besth]

It is a serious thing. I was at a sky train station and a lady dropped a ten baht coin. I was actually a little proud of my reflexes and trapped it with my foot. She spoke pretty good English and asked me why I stood on her King. I thought I did a good thing and ended up being wrong. Nothing came of it because I explained that it was just a reflex action.

Something similar happened to me not long ago. I was paying for petrol for my motorcycle and a 20 baht note fell on the floor. There was a bit of a breeze and I steped on it so that it wouldn't fly away. The gas attendant immediately went down, pushing my leg away and picking up the note, which he returned to me with an angry look and pointing at the king's picture. I immediately realized what had happened and apologized with a deep wai and tried to explain that it had also just been a reflex action.

I had heard many times how seriously this issue is taken, but this was the first time I saw it for myself.

[a2396]

the other day i made a huge message of standing on some coins my sons was playing with, the looks i got from the family were, to say i thought i had of killed someone,

well my wife told me that you can not stand on the king, i understand the respect thing, so i enquiredj so why is it ok to put notes in to my arse pocket, why is it ok for women to put money in there bikinis, down there bra etc, response because its ok.

can someone enlighten me as like a lot of things in thai, baffles me

In your wallet in your back pocket is ok as there is cloth between you and the money etc...if you put the notes down the back of your jocks then it would be offensive....

Money in the bra....the breast is a giver of food and nurturing and is also near the heart...

Under the foot is probably one of the most disrespectful places you can place money, it would be like you were stepping on the King

Any image of the King and Royal Family must be shown the greatest respect in Thailand and as his image is on all money, you need to be aware of what you do with it.

Disrespect of the King can land you in big trouble.

If you want to stuff money, use foreign currency & change it to bht when needed. Like who gives a rip anyway, just don't let them see you doing it. Maybe this is why Thais don't understand when I advise them to "get off the dime".

[dog412]

realistically, i would state, that those who "find" the sole of the foot offensive, might not have ever needed the "assistance" of a wheelchair. silly superstition at it's best. symbolism is one thing, trying to make it universal is another. unchanging cultural beliefs are as dogmatic as unchanging religious beliefs, both of which can and do hamper the ability to "evolve" with the present, and therefore, the future.

[gburns57au]

There is no rule for all occasions. Handing money the polite way is never really a mistake, but in case of a normal everyday situation, like paying for your groceries or a busticket i would say that it is over the top. Best idea is behaving according to situation. Some more formal occasions demand formal behavior, and every day situations won't.

I have seen people picking up coins so that nobody can step accidentally on it and the head of the king, but then, people here have coin flicking games as well.

Agreed....

except for that first bit....there is a protocol for some occasions

[gburns57au]

realistically, i would state, that those who "find" the sole of the foot offensive, might not have ever needed the "assistance" of a wheelchair. silly superstition at it's best. symbolism is one thing, trying to make it universal is another. unchanging cultural beliefs are as dogmatic as unchanging religious beliefs, both of which can and do hamper the ability to "evolve" with the present, and therefore, the future.

They dont try to make it universal....it is a Thai thing...

Western countries have their little superstitons and ways....all cultures do

[dog412]

realistically, i would state, that those who "find" the sole of the foot offensive, might not have ever needed the "assistance" of a wheelchair. silly superstition at it's best. symbolism is one thing, trying to make it universal is another. unchanging cultural beliefs are as dogmatic as unchanging religious beliefs, both of which can and do hamper the ability to "evolve" with the present, and therefore, the future.

They dont try to make it universal....it is a Thai thing...

Western countries have their little superstitons and ways....all cultures do

universal does not necessarily mean "throughout" the universe. not all in thailand are thai or tai, or buddhist, etc., etc. the "taboo" concerning the sole of the foot is nothing but a cultural nuance, handed down for generations without regard to reason. and ,yes, cultures must continue to change with the emerging existences of "todays" universe.

[gburns57au]

realistically, i would state, that those who "find" the sole of the foot offensive, might not have ever needed the "assistance" of a wheelchair. silly superstition at it's best. symbolism is one thing, trying to make it universal is another. unchanging cultural beliefs are as dogmatic as unchanging religious beliefs, both of which can and do hamper the ability to "evolve" with the present, and therefore, the future.

They dont try to make it universal....it is a Thai thing...

Western countries have their little superstitons and ways....all cultures do

universal does not necessarily mean "throughout" the universe. not all in thailand are thai or tai, or buddhist, etc., etc. the "taboo" concerning the sole of the foot is nothing but a cultural nuance, handed down for generations without regard to reason. and ,yes, cultures must continue to change with the emerging existences of "todays" universe.

Culture is what makes a country unique.....so why should a country change its culture ??

Next you will be telling me that I should walk under ladders....and not to worry about opening umbrellas inside the house....

Good Lord man

[dog412]

i usually try to avoid walking under ladders as it usually infers someone is "working" overhead. they may drop something. as for the umbrella, unless i have reason to believe a cobra may have made it's nest inside, i would see no reason to avoid opening it inside a house or anywhere else. no one said superstition doesn't exist, just why some accept it and others don't. we all have to make a choice, and then live with it.

[gburns57au]

i usually try to avoid walking under ladders as it usually infers someone is "working" overhead. they may drop something. as for the umbrella, unless i have reason to believe a cobra may have made it's nest inside, i would see no reason to avoid opening it inside a house or anywhere else. no one said superstition doesn't exist, just why some accept it and others don't. we all have to make a choice, and then live with it.

As you just pointed out....most times superstitions have a basis of logic....even the umbrella one...as does the foot one in Thailand.....

The points of the money under foot is not a superstition though it is out of the deep respect that the Thais have for their monarchs

[dog412]

i usually try to avoid walking under ladders as it usually infers someone is "working" overhead. they may drop something. as for the umbrella, unless i have reason to believe a cobra may have made it's nest inside, i would see no reason to avoid opening it inside a house or anywhere else. no one said superstition doesn't exist, just why some accept it and others don't. we all have to make a choice, and then live with it.

As you just pointed out....most times superstitions have a basis of logic....even the umbrella one...as does the foot one in Thailand.....

The points of the money under foot is not a superstition though it is out of the deep respect that the Thais have for their monarchs

i never mentioned the Monarch, my aspect was on the feet, which i am grateful for at all times.

[dave111223]

realistically, i would state, that those who "find" the sole of the foot offensive, might not have ever needed the "assistance" of a wheelchair. silly superstition at it's best. symbolism is one thing, trying to make it universal is another. unchanging cultural beliefs are as dogmatic as unchanging religious beliefs, both of which can and do hamper the ability to "evolve" with the present, and therefore, the future.

Good point dog412; agreed. I don't see the sense in pointless culture superstition, especially when people try to push them onto outsiders.

Culture is what makes a country unique.....so why should a country change its culture ??

According the Law & Order episode i watched the other day it was/(is?) Afghani culture to perform female circumcision (i won't go into the details but pretty nasty in order to stop females from getting any pleasure). But this is part of the culture, no need to change it right? Obviously the foot thing is not on this level, but it points out the flaw in this theory.

Next you will be telling me that I should walk under ladders....and not to worry about opening umbrellas inside the house....

If you don't like feet it entitles you not to point your feet at others. It does not entitle you to never have others point their feet at you.

Just as someone who believes walking under ladders is bad luck has the right not to walk under ladders, they don't have the right to force others not to walk under ladders also.

[ColPyat]

It is a serious thing. I was at a sky train station and a lady dropped a ten baht coin. I was actually a little proud of my reflexes and trapped it with my foot. She spoke pretty good English and asked me why I stood on her King. I thought I did a good thing and ended up being wrong. Nothing came of it because I explained that it was just a reflex action.

Something similar happened to me not long ago. I was paying for petrol for my motorcycle and a 20 baht note fell on the floor. There was a bit of a breeze and I steped on it so that it wouldn't fly away. The gas attendant immediately went down, pushing my leg away and picking up the note, which he returned to me with an angry look and pointing at the king's picture. I immediately realized what had happened and apologized with a deep wai and tried to explain that it had also just been a reflex action.

I had heard many times how seriously this issue is taken, but this was the first time I saw it for myself.

Well, it also is not fitting for a gas station attendant to look at you angry, and you made your second cultural blunder by making a deep Wai to him. If you really need to apologize, than do it to that picture you offended, and not to the attendant. If one really needs to fit into society that much, than at least learn when, where, how and to whom you make a deep Wai. A gas station attendant is, if you look at Thai typical social ranking, way below you in the pecking order, and if he finds fault at a small cultural blunder you made, then he should point this out politely if he needs to do that at all.

Most people here though are generally very understanding when foreigners make one or the other blunder, fortunately.

[gburns57au]

You guys talking about rights....

Thailand has a deep traditional culture, it is their country so they have the right to practice their culture....They dont ask that, you a foreigner adapt their culture but rather show some respect for it.

GaryA.....you shouldnt have wai'd the guy but that is a mistake that is commonly made by farangs. There is no deep wai in Thailand... the gesture is made with a slight head tilt with the fingertips about chin level then the hands move up the face according to the importance of the receiving person. So you have a low through to high wai. The highest wai is reserved for the Royal Family and senior Monks....

Dave, while I personally dont agree with body modifying culture or practices such as Suttee...Is it right to force a country to change its culture because it goes against our own culture or our sense of what is right or wrong? To do that we should insist that the Longneck girls should stop that practice, The piercings practiced in the Phillipines, the self flagellation of the Iraqis, the Australian Aborigine practice of spearing, Middle East stonings or many of the other cultures that are practiced throughout the world.

[dave111223]

Dave, while I personally dont agree with body modifying culture or practices such as Suttee...Is it right to force a country to change its culture because it goes against our own culture or our sense of what is right or wrong? To do that we should insist that the Longneck girls should stop that practice, The piercings practiced in the Phillipines, the self flagellation of the Iraqis, the Australian Aborigine practice of spearing, Middle East stonings or many of the other cultures that are practiced throughout the world.

I think there are a lot atrocities that have and do take place which are all part of a countries "culture".

You could say "what may be wrong to you, may not be wrong to them", yes it is true.

But for these cultural practices i feel something like "It hurts of kills someone" would be a valid reason for something being "wrong", and i don't think "But it is just the way it has been for 1000 years" would be a valid rebuttal or reason for continuing the practice.

Or are you of the opinion that the continuing of a "cultural" practice is more important than someones personal safety? I think if someone is being needless hurt it is right to force a culture to change.

Obviously pretty far off topic from the foot and head thing now

Coming back to the foot thing; i just don't think you should be offended when someone, who is totally unaware of your (some what odd) superstition, does something counter to that belief.

Let's say i believe it is bad luck to break a mirror. Doesn't mean i will be offended if some guy is out on his lawn bashing a mirror (might be annoyed about the loud bashing and crashing but that is a separate issue).

[Ping]

It is a serious thing. I was at a sky train station and a lady dropped a ten baht coin. I was actually a little proud of my reflexes and trapped it with my foot. She spoke pretty good English and asked me why I stood on her King. I thought I did a good thing and ended up being wrong. Nothing came of it because I explained that it was just a reflex action.

Something similar happened to me not long ago. I was paying for petrol for my motorcycle and a 20 baht note fell on the floor. There was a bit of a breeze and I steped on it so that it wouldn't fly away. The gas attendant immediately went down, pushing my leg away and picking up the note, which he returned to me with an angry look and pointing at the king's picture. I immediately realized what had happened and apologized with a deep wai and tried to explain that it had also just been a reflex action.

I had heard many times how seriously this issue is taken, but this was the first time I saw it for myself.

Well, it also is not fitting for a gas station attendant to look at you angry, and you made your second cultural blunder by making a deep Wai to him. If you really need to apologize, than do it to that picture you offended, and not to the attendant. If one really needs to fit into society that much, than at least learn when, where, how and to whom you make a deep Wai. A gas station attendant is, if you look at Thai typical social ranking, way below you in the pecking order, and if he finds fault at a small cultural blunder you made, then he should point this out politely if he needs to do that at all.

Most people here though are generally very understanding when foreigners make one or the other blunder, fortunately.

Agreed - your second blunder only exacerbated the situation. In his eyes, he would think you foolish (more so for being a 'deep' wai); but his expression of anger at your first mistake was improper.

[basjke]

It is a serious thing. I was at a sky train station and a lady dropped a ten baht coin. I was actually a little proud of my reflexes and trapped it with my foot. She spoke pretty good English and asked me why I stood on her King. I thought I did a good thing and ended up being wrong. Nothing came of it because I explained that it was just a reflex action.

Yes, some would rather a note blow away in the wind then put a foot on it....However I have seen Thais use their feet to catch a note...especially the larger denominations....After all one must practical, but they looked real guilty about it.

Exactly what happened to me in the trainstation from kachanaburi.When I get back my change the wind blows away the notes.While running after them at one point I put my foot one one to prevent it from flying further away.As soon as I step on it I knew what I was doing wrong and for sure I could also read it from the bystanders faces.