What visa to stay 175 days a year to avoid 800k deposit in bank?

[expatsoon]

I guess it was a little retarded sorry about that but we have clearer plans now and for us at least with assets in our home country, the global tax outcome is a huge factor in deciding not to retire in Thailand.

[Rob Browder]

15 hours ago, expatsoon said:

What I've decided to do is let them all figure it out for themselves and follow this forum which is really good for all the updates and everyone can make their own decision.

Bottom line - if any of your group desire to stay in Thailand for 180-days / year - the easiest visa currently available, and not requiring travel in/out of Thailand during that time would be serial 1-Year retirement-based extensions - available if they are over 50.   One only needs to be in-Thailand at the renewal-time each year, to keep this going.

[oldcpu]

On 6/10/2024 at 1:34 AM, expatsoon said:

I just read about many successfully converting the Retirement O to LTR visa but also just read that the Thai Government is now talking about removing the tax free status of the LTR visa.  Sorry but this is just becoming a joke now, nobody can take them seriously anymore.

I don't believe there is such a credible statement re the Thai Government removing the LTR tax benefit. My guess is at most you simply read someone else's speculation.  

[Liquorice]

50 minutes ago, Rob Browder said:

the easiest visa currently available, and not requiring travel in/out of Thailand during that time would be serial 1-Year retirement-based extensions - available if they are over 50. 

An extension of one's period of stay for 1 year is not a visa.
You require a Non Imm O visa, first, to apply to extend one's period of stay.

There is a financial requirement to meet for the 1-year extensions.

 

The OP wants to avoid depositing, 800K in a Thai bank.

[JohnnyBD]

On 6/7/2024 at 6:09 PM, expatsoon said:

With all the talk about tax on worldwide income and all the headache that may arise from it, my wife suggested staying just under 180 days a year in Thailand and not to invest or deposit any money there.  This actually sounds like a great plan not to be constantly buried in ever changing tax laws as well as having to deposit 800k bath for a 1 year visa.  What then would be the best visa to stay just under 6 months then?

I'm probably wasting my time, but if you are for real and you truly want to retire in Thailand, here's an option. You said you  are married to a Thai. You can get a Non IMM O-visa and 1-year extension based on marriage when you come on holiday. 400k in the bank, then you can take it back out after you get your extension. I don't think Thailand offers a 175 day visa, just joking... If you don't want to do the paperwork yourself, just pay an agency, maybe 25k to 30k should cover it.

Edited June 11 by JohnnyBD

[JohnnyBD]

12 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

An extension of one's period of stay for 1 year is not a visa.
You require a Non Imm O visa, first, to apply to extend one's period of stay.

There is a financial requirement to meet for the 1-year extensions.

 

The OP wants to avoid depositing, 800K in a Thai bank.

He said he was married to a Thai. He can get a Non IMM O-visa and 1-year extension based on marriage when he comes on holiday. 400k in the bank, then he can take it back out after he gets his extension. I don't think Thailand offers a 175 day visa, just joking... If he doesn't want to do the paperwork himself, he can pay an agency.

Edited June 11 by JohnnyBD

[Liquorice]

2 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

He said he was married to a Thai. He can get a Non IMM O-visa and 1-year extension based on marriage when he comes on holiday. 400k in the bank, then he can take it back out after he gets his extension. I don't think Thailand offers a 175 day visa, just joking...

He could also get the METV, but doesn't want to do a border run.
No financials in a Thai bank.

 

When the VE is increased to 60 days on entry, he could enter VE, 30 day extension, + 60 days extension = 150 days, but I get the impression he doesn't want to apply for any extensions either, or in fact do anything other than stay 175 days.

 

Wouldn't it be marvelous if the US offered visa free stays of up to 175 days for Thais.

[JohnnyBD]

7 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

Wouldn't it be marvelous if the US offered visa free stays of up to 175 days for Thais.

Yes if would be marvelous... My Thai wife could go back with me to visit the kids & grandkids. We've been married for 7 years and she's never met my kids & grandkids in person.

Edited June 11 by JohnnyBD

[expatsoon]

15 hours ago, oldcpu said:

I don't believe there is such a credible statement re the Thai Government removing the LTR tax benefit. My guess is at most you simply read someone else's speculation.  

 

I didn't save the link so you could be right as I can't find the reference to it anymore so my guess is that I did read someone's speculation but I will keep searching in case I

am able to find it again. 

[expatsoon]

15 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

I'm probably wasting my time, but if you are for real and you truly want to retire in Thailand, here's an option. You said you  are married to a Thai. You can get a Non IMM O-visa and 1-year extension based on marriage when you come on holiday. 400k in the bank, then you can take it back out after you get your extension. I don't think Thailand offers a 175 day visa, just joking... If you don't want to do the paperwork yourself, just pay an agency, maybe 25k to 30k should cover it.

 

I appreciate all the comments thanks.  So if one day I decide to stay for a year without leaving, the Non IMM O-visa and 1 year extension can be done when I'm in Thailand as the tourist?  Right now Thailand has changed the 30 day no visa for tourists to 60 day visa free but I never knew I could apply for the Non IMM O-visa extension based on marriage right in Thailand as a tourist.  If I were to do that one day, I have to get a few other things figured out from my understanding to get a bank account there, such as a minimum 12 month rental lease etc.  Maybe it would be better to get an agent to help us with all that if we cross that bridge in the future.

[retarius]

I'd get a non O A visa and leave after 175 days each year. You could even avoid 90 day reporting if you schedule your stays correctly. 

 

I screwed up this year. I was expecting that by now the rules for taxation would be defined much more clearly, and we had public comments by tax department officials that ran contrary to my expectations. But that has happened recently along with the announcement that Thailand will tax world wide income whether remitted or not.  To be on the safe side I have decided not to be a Thai tax resident in 2024 or 2025 until all the rules are crystal clear to me and to any tax accountants I may hire in Bangkok. 

The issue I now have is that I am scrambling to be out of Thailand for 96 or 97 days in the latter 4 months of the year because my second home is on an island that will only give me a 90 day stay, so I cannot stay there for the entire time I am out of Thailand. Also I have to be sure to count the days correctly as one day here of there might be very costly indeed. One silly issue for example is that 2024 was a Leap Year does that mean you need to be out of Thailand for the extra day? Again a small issue that could be very costly indeed. Another critical issue for me is medical insurance and medications for existing conditions.

[Liquorice]

19 minutes ago, expatsoon said:

I appreciate all the comments thanks.  So if one day I decide to stay for a year without leaving, the Non IMM O-visa and 1 year extension can be done when I'm in Thailand as the tourist? 

A valid question, but did you marry in Thailand or the US?

 

You can apply for the Non Imm O visa based on Thai spouse from a Thai Embassy/Consulate in the US to enter Thailand, or you can enter as a Tourist and apply to change your Immigration status to Non Imm (Non O) at a local Immigration office.

The requirements and conditions are here:  VE-TV Non O Thai spouse.pdf 

IMO it's less hassle to apply for the Non Imm O before you enter Thailand.

 

On entry with a Non Imm O visa you are granted a stay of 90 days.
Open a bank account and transfer funds asap.
You can apply for a 1 year extension of your period of stay based on Thai spouse, the financial requirement being 400K THB in a Thai bank account (your sole name) for 2 months prior to submitting the 1 year extension application.

Once the extension is granted, you may withdraw and spend that 400K for living expenses.
327-2557 (2014) - Criteria for extension ENG.pdf 

Section 2.18 (Thai spouse)
(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or must have no less than Baht 400,000 in a bank account in Thailand for the past two months to cover expenses for one year.

 

 

 

 

[expatsoon]

@Liquoric,  thanks for the detailed info, really helpful!

 

Married in Canada but for some reason when we ask about applying for the 400,000 baht option in my name in the bank with the Thai spouse Non O, they never reply and keep steering us back to the 800,000 baht one. 

 

 

[expatsoon]

2 hours ago, retarius said:

I'd get a non O A visa and leave after 175 days each year. You could even avoid 90 day reporting if you schedule your stays correctly. 

 

I screwed up this year. I was expecting that by now the rules for taxation would be defined much more clearly, and we had public comments by tax department officials that ran contrary to my expectations. But that has happened recently along with the announcement that Thailand will tax world wide income whether remitted or not.  To be on the safe side I have decided not to be a Thai tax resident in 2024 or 2025 until all the rules are crystal clear to me and to any tax accountants I may hire in Bangkok. 

The issue I now have is that I am scrambling to be out of Thailand for 96 or 97 days in the latter 4 months of the year because my second home is on an island that will only give me a 90 day stay, so I cannot stay there for the entire time I am out of Thailand. Also I have to be sure to count the days correctly as one day here of there might be very costly indeed. One silly issue for example is that 2024 was a Leap Year does that mean you need to be out of Thailand for the extra day? Again a small issue that could be very costly indeed. Another critical issue for me is medical insurance and medications for existing conditions.

 

I know most people here in this group are not bothered at all about the worldwide income thing, but it bothers me a lot when I think about how it could over complicate and otherwise simple life that we want to live.  I hate the thought of potentially endless paperwork where nobody knows anything but they expect us to know what to do when the rules are never clear.

[Liquorice]

6 hours ago, expatsoon said:

Married in Canada but for some reason when we ask about applying for the 400,000 baht option in my name in the bank with the Thai spouse Non O, they never reply and keep steering us back to the 800,000 baht one. 

For the Non Imm O visa, you apply online at https://thaivisa.go.th 

Open the site and choose 'Staying with Family Visas'. 

Then select 'To stay with Thai family residing in Thailand (more than 60 days). https://thaievisa.go.th/visa/non-immigrant-o

 

Now because you married in Canada it's a very different kettle of fish applying for a 1-year extension of stay based on a Thai spouse, because Thailand has no record of your marriage and Immigration do not accept foreign marriage certificates in their original form.

You would need to register your foreign marriage in Thailand and there is a legal procedure for that.

 

Document authentication is done by Global Affairs Canada or, in some cases, by the provincial government. Your authenticated marriage certificate is then submitted to the Thai embassy or consulate for document legalization.
Alternatively, the Canadian Embassy may be able to authenticate your Canadian marriage certificate.
On arrival to Thailand, the marriage certificate must then be translated to Thai and then legalized by Thailand's Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

The documents can then be presented to your local Amphoe in Thailand, who will register the foreign marriage on the system.

 

To ensure a marriage is considered de jure and defacto, Thai Immigration request an updated Khor Ror 2 or 22 from the Amphoe.

When you marry in Thailand, you are issued two marriage certificates (Khor Ror 3) and a registration of the marriage (Khor Ror 2).

Provided there is no record of divorce, the Amphoe will issue an updated KR2, or in the case of a foreign marriage registered in Thailand a KR22.
Without this updated KR2/22, Immigration will not proceed with a 1-year extension based on Thai spouse.

 

As an addition to this, for the very first application of a 1-year extension based on a Thai spouse, Immigration will arrange a home visit to further ensure the marriage is de jure and defacto. Independent witnesses are usually required on this visit.

Edited June 12 by Liquorice

[expatsoon]

@Liquorice, again thanks for such detailed info, we would never have guessed that so much is needed to get the Thai spouse Non O. 

 

We've been married over 20 years but I guess that doesn't mean anything to Thai immigration.

 

Are you maybe an agent?  If we would ever need one,  we would love to use your services if you are.

 

 

[oldcpu]

Further to Liquorice's excellent post, .... if one is already in Thailand, there are Bangkok based translation services that to do all the 'leg work' (needed to be done in Bangkok) in regards to in part helping to get one's Canadian marriage (to a Thai ) registered in Thailand.

 

I married my Thai wife in Canada back in 2001.  In December 2020 (during COVID days), while I remained in Phuket, I had a Bangkok based translation service do the "leg work" for me in Bangkok.

 

From Phuket, I couriered to them (in Bangkok) the marriage documents (together with limited power of attorney to do the marriage recording paperwork - they provided the legal forms) ... and they took the marriage certificate to Canadian Embassy in Bangkok to have the marriage certificate certified, they (translation service) provided the official translation, and they (translation service) took the resultant documents to the Thailand Foreign Affairs in Bangkok to have the resulting documents legalized (?)/certified(?).   They then couriered all the documents back to me in Phuket, and my wife and I went to the local Amphoe in Phuket, and had our marriage registered, and I received the Khor Ror 22 (KR.22) which was needed by Phuket immigration for a one-year extension of my permission to stay in Thailand.

 

I note some ( most (?)) district immigration in Thailand may require the KR.22 to be updated yearly, to continue to prove one's marriage status, each time one goes for the annual renewal on one's permission to stay.

 

I found paying the translation service to do the leg work in Bangkok, saved me having to fly to Bangkok, stay in accommodations there, and do all the leg work (embassy, translation office, foreign affairs) myself. 

 

I have never used an agent, but in this case, having the translation service do this, made it a lot easier for me (especially given this was during COVID times).

Edited June 13 by oldcpu

[Liquorice]

52 minutes ago, expatsoon said:

@Liquorice, again thanks for such detailed info, we would never have guessed that so much is needed to get the Thai spouse Non O. 

 

We've been married over 20 years but I guess that doesn't mean anything to Thai immigration.

The Thai Embassy in Canada will accept your Canadian marriage certificate for the Non Imm O e-visa application, because they can check the Canadian marriage database to authenticate it.

 

Thai Immigration cannot check foreign databases, which is why a foreign marriage has to be registered in Thailand, providing a local database that the Amphoe can check to issue the necessary document for Immigration, that according to local records you are still legally married.

 

58 minutes ago, expatsoon said:

Are you maybe an agent?  If we would ever need one,  we would love to use your services if you are.

No, I am not an agent, just happy to help others with my own experiences and knowledge.

[expatsoon]

On 6/12/2024 at 7:55 PM, oldcpu said:

Further to Liquorice's excellent post, .... if one is already in Thailand, there are Bangkok based translation services that to do all the 'leg work' (needed to be done in Bangkok) in regards to in part helping to get one's Canadian marriage (to a Thai ) registered in Thailand.

 

I married my Thai wife in Canada back in 2001.  In December 2020 (during COVID days), while I remained in Phuket, I had a Bangkok based translation service do the "leg work" for me in Bangkok.

 

From Phuket, I couriered to them (in Bangkok) the marriage documents (together with limited power of attorney to do the marriage recording paperwork - they provided the legal forms) ... and they took the marriage certificate to Canadian Embassy in Bangkok to have the marriage certificate certified, they (translation service) provided the official translation, and they (translation service) took the resultant documents to the Thailand Foreign Affairs in Bangkok to have the resulting documents legalized (?)/certified(?).   They then couriered all the documents back to me in Phuket, and my wife and I went to the local Amphoe in Phuket, and had our marriage registered, and I received the Khor Ror 22 (KR.22) which was needed by Phuket immigration for a one-year extension of my permission to stay in Thailand.

 

I note some ( most (?)) district immigration in Thailand may require the KR.22 to be updated yearly, to continue to prove one's marriage status, each time one goes for the annual renewal on one's permission to stay.

 

I found paying the translation service to do the leg work in Bangkok, saved me having to fly to Bangkok, stay in accommodations there, and do all the leg work (embassy, translation office, foreign affairs) myself. 

 

I have never used an agent, but in this case, having the translation service do this, made it a lot easier for me (especially given this was during COVID times).

 

Thanks, very good info there too, I appreciate it!

[expatsoon]

On 6/12/2024 at 8:35 PM, Liquorice said:

The Thai Embassy in Canada will accept your Canadian marriage certificate for the Non Imm O e-visa application, because they can check the Canadian marriage database to authenticate it.

 

Thai Immigration cannot check foreign databases, which is why a foreign marriage has to be registered in Thailand, providing a local database that the Amphoe can check to issue the necessary document for Immigration, that according to local records you are still legally married.

 

No, I am not an agent, just happy to help others with my own experiences and knowledge.

 

Nice to have people like you in this sub helping everyone out and I hope everyone you replied too appreciates your help and knowledge, I know I do, thanks again.

 

Just to be clear, if I apply for the Non Imm O e-visa in Canada, they Thai Embassy in Canada will accept it because they can authenticate it, but how would it work once I try a one year extension when in Thailand when that is due, would Thai Immigration accept it since the Thai Embassy in Canada authenticated our marriage or would be still need to do what you said before and get it registered in Thailand?

[Liquorice]

12 hours ago, expatsoon said:

Just to be clear, if I apply for the Non Imm O e-visa in Canada, they Thai Embassy in Canada will accept it because they can authenticate it, but how would it work once I try a one year extension when in Thailand when that is due, would Thai Immigration accept it since the Thai Embassy in Canada authenticated our marriage or would be still need to do what you said before and get it registered in Thailand?

For foreign documents to be accepted as 'genuine' in a foreign Country then they have to be authenticated, certified, translated and the translation authenticated and certified.
The process is known as 'legalising' a foreign document for use in another Country.

 

If you married in Canada, your wife's documents would have undergone a similar process in order to be accepted in Canada.

Guessing an affidavit, certification, translation etc, to present to the registry office in Canada.

 

Your Canadian marriage certificate is in English and will be accepted by the Thai Embassy in Canada.
At Thai Immigration many do not read and poorly speak English, they require a document in Thai from a local Amphoe as evidence you're legally married.
You cannot obtain that document from the Amphoe unless your foreign marriage is registered in Thailand.

To register your Canadian marriage, you have to go through the steps of 'legalising' your Canadian marriage certificate for it to be accepted as genuine, certified and translated to Thai.

 

[expatsoon]

2 hours ago, Liquorice said:

To register your Canadian marriage, you have to go through the steps of 'legalising' your Canadian marriage certificate for it to be accepted as genuine, certified and translated to Thai.

 

 

Ok, got it thanks!