How will it end?

[BobBKK]

Galloway schools Morgan on Gaza and Ukraine
 

 

[AlexRich]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO Putin already won. All he has to do now is wait till the west runs out of money ( and the west is already broke - how much does the US owe already? ), and it's all over for Ukraine, whoever wins in November.

 

He's seen it all before when the US and it's puppies allies go to war in "defense of freedom" ( and massive profits for the 1% ), and after wasting billions of $ and losing thousands of lives they give up and leave.

 

Apparently Russia is gearing up for a long war, but the west certainly isn't. They can barely afford to raise their military spending to the previously agreed amount, and didn't spend enough for decades. One only has to look at the British navy to see the result of that.

 

 

Your Putin love has clouded your grasp of the fact that Russia is a relatively small economy that will exhaust itself economically the longer this war goes on. Their ability to ramp up production is severely curtailed ... the reason why they are begging the likes of Iran and North Korea for weapon systems. What great superpower does this? 

 

If Western powers were as weak as you make them out to be Putin would have made a move on them by now, particularly after all his red lines have been crossed?

 

So why doesn't he? It would be the end for him ... his troops and equipment would be wiped out within days and his fate would be a bullet in the head. 

 

I don't know over how many years you've convinced yourself that Putin was this invincible strong man, but it must be psychologically painful watching his demise?

[AlexRich]

4 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

 

This is so glaringly obvious that I’m amazed that so many on here can’t see this. Or “won’t”? Some even go so far as to claim that Ukraine is in fact winning. What planet do these people live on? Which “experts” are they listening to?

 

Reminds me of so called China “experts” like Gordon Chang who predicted the coming collapse of China within months, 15 years ago lol.

 

 

They are winning the way that the US was winning in Vietnam. Holding ground but making little advance despite the GOP US Congress holding back on military aid for 6 months. That was a window of opportunity for Putin ... all he got was retreat and still more dead troops.

 

Putin's best hope is a Trump victory, because without that he is a dead man walking. Putin puppet Trump will simply hand him Ukraine and then proceed to weaken the Western alliances against Putin. He'll also get to work dismantling US democratic structures in the same way that Hitler did in Germany during the 1930's. 

[BobBKK]

6 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

 

They are winning the way that the US was winning in Vietnam. Holding ground but making little advance despite the GOP US Congress holding back on military aid for 6 months. That was a window of opportunity for Putin ... all he got was retreat and still more dead troops.

 

Putin's best hope is a Trump victory, because without that he is a dead man walking. Putin puppet Trump will simply hand him Ukraine and then proceed to weaken the Western alliances against Putin. He'll also get to work dismantling US democratic structures in the same way that Hitler did in Germany during the 1930's. 

 
That is an impoverished analysis. Ukraine is in a war of attrition and losing thousands weekly as it attempts to hold off Russia's noticeable advance.

But putting that aside, Ukraine would have been finished in days without the West bankrolling Ukraine. The USA can't even control its own borders yet seeks to control Ukraines. It won't end in victory, only in defeat, which the USA will spin as a success - as they did with Afghanistan. I believe, because no one knows for sure, that Russia will win and stop, Zelensky will be removed to his USA Villa, and new borders will be agreed upon. Let's see - I think in 2025, we will know. 

[ChicagoExpat]

14 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 
That is an impoverished analysis. Ukraine is in a war of attrition and losing thousands weekly as it attempts to hold off Russia's noticeable advance.

But putting that aside, Ukraine would have been finished in days without the West bankrolling Ukraine. The USA can't even control its own borders yet seeks to control Ukraines. It won't end in victory, only in defeat, which the USA will spin as a success - as they did with Afghanistan. I believe, because no one knows for sure, that Russia will win and stop, Zelensky will be removed to his USA Villa, and new borders will be agreed upon. Let's see - I think in 2025, we will know. 

"Russia's noticeable advance"?  That is fiction.  Tiny gains.

 

Yes, of course Ukraine would have been finished without the help of friends.  Its economy, population, and military are a tiny fraction of Russia's.  You state that like it's some brilliant deduction that only a genius like you could have produced.  Poland, Czechoslovakia, the Baltics, Denmark etc were in similar position vis-a-vis Germany.  It's like saying "Putin kills his domestic opponents" or "Russians have no civil liberties" or "Russia's Western supporters are disgusting hypocrites".  Everyone knows these things.

 

P.S. All those countries are free now, both from Nazi Germany AND Russia.

[Denim]

Perhaps a better poll would be  ' Who do you want to win ? Russia or Ukraine ? 

 

Win for Ukraine would be it gets back it's territory

Win for Russia is it gets everything it has taken plus assurance Ukraine won't join Nato.

 

It does seem that a lot of posters actually want Russia to win.

[ElwoodP]

Please discuss the topic and not each other.

[Seppius]

This is how the Serbian president thinks it will end, or will be the beginning of the end

 

ALBAWABA - Aleksandar Vučić, the president of Serbia, has issued a warning, claiming that World War III is imminent and that it may break out in the next four months. He said this in an interview with the Swiss publication "Weltwoche."

 

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ae/news/featured/us-sends-aircraft-carrier-to-eastern-mediterranean/ar-BB1oI0sz

[BobBKK]

1 hour ago, Denim said:

Perhaps a better poll would be  ' Who do you want to win ? Russia or Ukraine ? 

 

Win for Ukraine would be it gets back it's territory

Win for Russia is it gets everything it has taken plus assurance Ukraine won't join Nato.

 

It does seem that a lot of posters actually want Russia to win.

 Yes, why not start that thread? Good idea but I think 90% here are for Ukraine - and that's understandable knowing MSM  etc., but it is slowly changing. I hate war and don't think countries should get involved with land dispute that is none of their business.

[BobBKK]

1 hour ago, ChicagoExpat said:

"Russia's noticeable advance"?  That is fiction.  Tiny gains.

 

Yes, of course Ukraine would have been finished without the help of friends.  Its economy, population, and military are a tiny fraction of Russia's.  You state that like it's some brilliant deduction that only a genius like you could have produced.  Poland, Czechoslovakia, the Baltics, Denmark etc were in similar position vis-a-vis Germany.  It's like saying "Putin kills his domestic opponents" or "Russians have no civil liberties" or "Russia's Western supporters are disgusting hypocrites".  Everyone knows these things.

 

P.S. All those countries are free now, both from Nazi Germany AND Russia.

 They are free from Nazis BECAUSE of Russia - never forget that.

[ChicagoExpat]

1 minute ago, BobBKK said:

 They are free from Nazis BECAUSE of Russia - never forget that.

Partially because of Russia, yes.

 

And then immediately threatened by a remarkably similar threat -- Russia.  In the case of Poland, the Baltics and Czechoslovakia, occupied by again by a hostile force.  And, Germany and Russia carved up Poland between them.

 

Never forget that.

[ChicagoExpat]

6 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 Yes, why not start that thread? Good idea but I think 90% here are for Ukraine - and that's understandable knowing MSM  etc., but it is slowly changing. I hate war and don't think countries should get involved with land dispute that is none of their business.

If you actually hate war, you'd oppose the invasion.  However, you support this war and cheer on the aggressor.  All of this is so puzzling, my puzzler is sore.

[BobBKK]

1 minute ago, ChicagoExpat said:

If you actually hate war, you'd oppose the invasion.  However, you support this war and cheer on the aggressor.  All of this is so puzzling, my puzzler is sore.

 
I do - I oppose it, but I understand it. You don't even try to understand it. I also oppose the USA in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Vietnam and all the rest, including Taiwan - stay out of it.

[BobBKK]

7 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Partially because of Russia, yes.

 

And then immediately threatened by a remarkably similar threat -- Russia.  In the case of Poland, the Baltics and Czechoslovakia, occupied by again by a hostile force.  And, Germany and Russia carved up Poland between them.

 

Never forget that.

 
Russia 27,000,000 dead

USA 400,000 dead

Edited June 27 by BobBKK

[ChicagoExpat]

1 minute ago, BobBKK said:

 
I do - I oppose it, but I understand it. You don't even try to understand it. I also oppose the USA in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Vietnam and all the rest, including Taiwan - stay out of it.

You don't oppose it at all.  You cheer it on at every opportunity.  You oppose U.S. military intervention (fine) but love Russia military intervention, or which there are many examples.  Go ahead and condemn Russia's military adventures in Afghanistan, Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, Vietnam, Korea, Africa... the list goes on and on.  But we know you won't.

[ChicagoExpat]

1 minute ago, BobBKK said:

 
Russia 27,000,000 dead

USA 400,000 dead

Again, Bob, this isn't news to anyone.  Russia suffered a lot -- partially due to its own policies and indifference to its people.  And the Nazis, when not making treaties with Russia, treated Slavs as subhuman.  But feel free to comment on the rest.  Here, I'll remind you:  

 

And then immediately threatened by a remarkably similar threat -- Russia.  In the case of Poland, the Baltics and Czechoslovakia, occupied by again by a hostile force.  And, Germany and Russia carved up Poland between them.

 

Never forget that.

[BobBKK]

4 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

You don't oppose it at all.  You cheer it on at every opportunity.  You oppose U.S. military intervention (fine) but love Russia military intervention, or which there are many examples.  Go ahead and condemn Russia's military adventures in Afghanistan, Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, Vietnam, Korea, Africa... the list goes on and on.  But we know you won't.

 I understand it - you do not.

[BobBKK]

2 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Again, Bob, this isn't news to anyone.  Russia suffered a lot -- partially due to its own policies and indifference to its people.  And the Nazis, when not making treaties with Russia, treated Slavs as subhuman.  But feel free to comment on the rest.  Here, I'll remind you:  

 

And then immediately threatened by a remarkably similar threat -- Russia.  In the case of Poland, the Baltics and Czechoslovakia, occupied by again by a hostile force.  And, Germany and Russia carved up Poland between them.

 

Never forget that.

 Ever been to Russia?  any relatives there? any experience, ever worked there?  do you know where it is even?

[Denim]

13 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

I hate war and don't think countries should get involved with land dispute that is none of their business.

 

A bit like seeing a thug grab an old ladies handbag.  None of anyones business except the participants.

 

When the shooting starts it has gone beyond a dispute.

 

When World War 2 broke out the popular sentiment in America was to not get involved but to let Europe sort out its own land disputes. Pearl Harbour changed that mind set.  One can only speculate what would have happened had America sat on its hands. The world would be a different place now.

[BobBKK]

1 minute ago, Denim said:

 

A bit like seeing a thug grab an old ladies handbag.  None of anyones business except the participants.

 

When the shooting starts it has gone beyond a dispute.

 

When World War 2 broke out the popular sentiment in America was to not get involved but to let Europe sort out its own land disputes. Pearl Harbour changed that mind set.  One can only speculate what would have happened had America sat on its hands. The world would be a different place now.

 Good example. America did not get involved until it was attacked.

[ChicagoExpat]

20 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 Ever been to Russia?  any relatives there? any experience, ever worked there?  do you know where it is even?

Yep.  I lived there for 3 years and was living and working there when Russia invaded Ukraine.  No relatives, but friends and co-workers.  And some are in gulag for... nothing at all.

 

You're such a smug little @sshole, Bob.

Edited June 27 by ChicagoExpat

[ChicagoExpat]

17 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 I understand it - you do not.

Glad to see you refuse to condemn any of those invasions by Russia.  Here, I'll remind you of what you support:
 

Go ahead and condemn Russia's military adventures in Afghanistan, Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, Vietnam, Hungary, Finland, Korea, Africa... the list goes on and on.  But we know you won't.

[Denim]

38 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 Good example. America did not get involved until it was attacked.

 

Fortunately for Europe .

 

Had it not been attacked and not come to our aid the outcome would have been bad for Europe and especially  Russia.

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, Seppius said:

This is how the Serbian president thinks it will end, or will be the beginning of the end

 

ALBAWABA - Aleksandar Vučić, the president of Serbia, has issued a warning, claiming that World War III is imminent and that it may break out in the next four months. He said this in an interview with the Swiss publication "Weltwoche."

 

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ae/news/featured/us-sends-aircraft-carrier-to-eastern-mediterranean/ar-BB1oI0sz

Yet another Putin puppet projecting what he wishes, not what he knows. The last thing Putin wants is NATO troops against the thousands of drunks and criminals he’s pushed to the front line. 
 

The WW3 threat is a joke, because any attempt by him to provoke that will land him with a bullet on the brain. This 3 day project has been a disaster for Putin. He’s a diminished figure in the world, a second tier power to China. The myth of Russian military might has been demolished in Ukraine, with some of his best troops wiped out by a bunch of wheat farmers and tech geeks with weapons. His much vaunted weapons have turned out to be poor quality and dysfunctional. 
 

One of the main reasons that the Russian elites fear a nuclear war is because Russian nuclear warheads will malfunction and drop on them. Russia is a joke militarily. 

[AlexRich]

52 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Glad to see you refuse to condemn any of those invasions by Russia.  Here, I'll remind you of what you support:
 

Go ahead and condemn Russia's military adventures in Afghanistan, Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, Vietnam, Hungary, Finland, Korea, Africa... the list goes on and on.  But we know you won't.

No, indeed he won’t. Bob’s bought into the myth of Putin as a master strategist with an unbeatable war machine. His army get their ass handed to them every time they come up against a semi-capable force. 
 

it’s interesting to watch the antics of people that have invested so much in a belief that they can’t let go of it, even when the evidence is right in front of them. In the UK we see the same with the Brexit fiasco, and in the USA we see it in the rants of muppets who believe an election was “stolen”. 
 

We are living in the post truth world, and it is as scary as f#ck.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

 

Your Putin love has clouded your grasp of the fact that Russia is a relatively small economy that will exhaust itself economically the longer this war goes on. Their ability to ramp up production is severely curtailed ... the reason why they are begging the likes of Iran and North Korea for weapon systems. What great superpower does this? 

 

If Western powers were as weak as you make them out to be Putin would have made a move on them by now, particularly after all his red lines have been crossed?

 

So why doesn't he? It would be the end for him ... his troops and equipment would be wiped out within days and his fate would be a bullet in the head. 

 

I don't know over how many years you've convinced yourself that Putin was this invincible strong man, but it must be psychologically painful watching his demise?

A somewhat weird, if not demented, post.

 

a/ I've never said anywhere on here or elsewhere that I love Putin. It's possible to see the western propaganda for what it is without supporting Putin

 

b/ you seem to think it's before 1945, when the atomic bomb was first used. It doesn't matter how weak western forces are as long as any attack on a NATO country can lead to MAD.

 

c/ There is no indication that Putin is under a serious threat.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Denim said:

Perhaps a better poll would be  ' Who do you want to win ? Russia or Ukraine ? 

 

Win for Ukraine would be it gets back it's territory

Win for Russia is it gets everything it has taken plus assurance Ukraine won't join Nato.

 

It does seem that a lot of posters actually want Russia to win.

Or perhaps we see reality for what it is and not as some neocon's wet dream of a defeated Russia.

Too many warmongers in western governments for my liking.

 

The only winners in this war are, as usual, the 1%. Everyone else loses.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, BobBKK said:

 They are free from Nazis BECAUSE of Russia - never forget that.

Now that is an inconvenient truth that they will likely never accept.

Didn't you know that John Wayne won WW2 single handedly?

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

If you actually hate war, you'd oppose the invasion.  However, you support this war and cheer on the aggressor.  All of this is so puzzling, my puzzler is sore.

Obviously, your idea of "cheering on" and mine are somewhat different.

 

BTW, a favourite propaganda tactic is to denigrate the opposition by telling lies about them, and keep doing so in the hope that if one tells a lie often enough people will believe it. I think a certain German used to say something about that early last century.

 

You should be grateful for us, as otherwise you would have no one to attack on here.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Denim said:

 

A bit like seeing a thug grab an old ladies handbag.  None of anyones business except the participants.

 

When the shooting starts it has gone beyond a dispute.

 

When World War 2 broke out the popular sentiment in America was to not get involved but to let Europe sort out its own land disputes. Pearl Harbour changed that mind set.  One can only speculate what would have happened had America sat on its hands. The world would be a different place now.

and WW2 bred the military industrial complex, to all our misfortune, and especially that of the countries destroyed by it.