GENKI "RESIDENT" International Health Insurance - ANY EXPERIENCE?

[SportRider]

Hi all, I searched but didn't find any reference to this, hence posting a new thread.

 

I was looking at Genki "Native" which seems pretty good, however not applicable for those over 55.  I booked a support call and was told about "Resident" which seems like pretty good cover, and perfect for expats who flit between home country and elsewhere (180 days year cover in home country).  

 

Setting aside the matter of price (it's in my range), does anyone have first hand experience of this company?

 

Many thanks,

SR

 

 

Product Information.pdf Genki Resident - Table of Benefits.pdf

[Sheryl]

I don't have any feedback on them.

 

Based in Germany, so under EU regs which is good. The underwriter is Barmenia   which seems a solid company though @Etaoin Shrdlu may know more.

 

Claims are handled by DR-Walter, a German-based  broker who seems to have handled mainly trave insurance policies. Mixed reviews on Trust Pilot but that's pretty common.

 

My impression is that this (Genki Resident) is a fairly new product and that they are newly branching out from travel insurance to  expat insurance.

 

Best thing to do is talk to a broker experienced in expat insurance.

 

I would also ask abour whether they have direct payment arrangements with any Thai hospitals and if so, which. 

[SportRider]

Many thanks Sheryl, I'll dig in a bit more.

Appreciated,

SR

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I don't have any feedback on them.

 

Based in Germany, so under EU regs which is good. The underwriter is Barmenia   which seems a solid company though @Etaoin Shrdlu may know more.

 

Claims are handled by DR-Walter, a German-based  broker who seems to have handled mainly trave insurance policies. Mixed reviews on Trust Pilot but that's pretty common.

 

My impression is that this (Genki Resident) is a fairly new product and that they are newly branching out from travel insurance to  expat insurance.

 

Best thing to do is talk to a broker experienced in expat insurance.

 

I would also ask abour whether they have direct payment arrangements with any Thai hospitals and if so, which. 

 

I'm not familiar with the domestic German health insurance market, so I can't really comment on the claims-paying attitude of Barmenia, but since it is incorporated and regulated in Germany, I think there are probably adequate consumer protection laws in place.

 

I looked for an AM Best rating, and found four of Barmenia's operating entities listed, but none have been rated by AM Best. I also could not find a Standard and Poors rating, but an indirect rating can be inferred. Gothaer is in the process of merging with Barmenia and the merger has had a positive effect on S&P's rating of Gothaer, which already is rated at "A" by S&P: https://disclosure.spglobal.com/ratings/en/regulatory/article/-/view/type/HTML/id/3195744

 

In addition, Barmenia's website gives some financial information on the company: 

 

In addition to earning an underwriting profit, something that not all insurers manage to do, Barmenia has substantial investment income. The company employs over 4,000 people in Germany and has a turnover in excess of two billion Euros. From a financial standpoint, at least according to what I can find,  I think Barmenia is pretty solid.

 

This isn't an insurer I would lose sleep over from a financial or regulatory standpoint if I were a policyholder. But I would ask a broker who deals with Barmenia on a regular basis about their claims service and claims-paying attitude.

[Lorry]

10 hours ago, SportRider said:

does anyone have first hand experience of this company?

How???

This is a start-up, founded in 2021 during covid.  How can there be experience?

 

They are a broker,  you can google their managing directors. 

 

Dr Walter is another broker (a big one, specializes in expat insurance for many years), so they are really a sub-broker.

These new products target young, healthy, educated people ("digital nomads") - the most profitable group to sell health insurance to.

 

The people you will really have contact with when you are sick (and who handle your claims) are their assistance companies:

"EuropAssistanceSA, Niederlassung für Deutschland, Global ExcelManagement Inc. GMMI, Inc., International SOSB.V., International SOSGmbH,MDMedicusAssistanceServiceGmbH"

That's a very mixed bag, without going into details. They certainly have direct payment agreements with all major private hospitals in Thailand.

 

The people who pay the money are Barmenia, that's a good German insurance. Gothaer is very good. 

 

I copy from their insurance conditions (you find them as the second part of their "consumer conditions"-pdf):

 

"Thepolicyprovisions arewritten inGerman. Anycommunicationduring the termof the insurance will alsobe inGerman. If documents areprovided inEnglish, this is tobeunderstoodas a serviceof the insurer, whichhas noeffect on theagreedcontract language."

 

"The insurancecontract is subject toGerman law."

 

I take it your German is good enough even when you are sick, and that you have a basic understanding of continental European law.

Funnily, I couldn't find their T&Cs in German.

 

 

[SportRider]

13 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

I'm not familiar with the domestic German health insurance market, so I can't really comment on the claims-paying attitude of Barmenia, but since it is incorporated and regulated in Germany, I think there are probably adequate consumer protection laws in place.

 

I looked for an AM Best rating, and found four of Barmenia's operating entities listed, but none have been rated by AM Best. I also could not find a Standard and Poors rating, but an indirect rating can be inferred. Gothaer is in the process of merging with Barmenia and the merger has had a positive effect on S&P's rating of Gothaer, which already is rated at "A" by S&P: https://disclosure.spglobal.com/ratings/en/regulatory/article/-/view/type/HTML/id/3195744

 

In addition, Barmenia's website gives some financial information on the company: 

 

In addition to earning an underwriting profit, something that not all insurers manage to do, Barmenia has substantial investment income. The company employs over 4,000 people in Germany and has a turnover in excess of two billion Euros. From a financial standpoint, at least according to what I can find,  I think Barmenia is pretty solid.

 

This isn't an insurer I would lose sleep over from a financial or regulatory standpoint if I were a policyholder. But I would ask a broker who deals with Barmenia on a regular basis about their claims service and claims-paying attitude.

 

Thanks so much for taking the time to dig into this, very much appreciated. 🙏🙏

 

[SportRider]

11 hours ago, Lorry said:

How???

This is a start-up, founded in 2021 during covid.  How can there be experience?

 

They are a broker,  you can google their managing directors. 

 

Dr Walter is another broker (a big one, specializes in expat insurance for many years), so they are really a sub-broker.

These new products target young, healthy, educated people ("digital nomads") - the most profitable group to sell health insurance to.

 

The people you will really have contact with when you are sick (and who handle your claims) are their assistance companies:

"EuropAssistanceSA, Niederlassung für Deutschland, Global ExcelManagement Inc. GMMI, Inc., International SOSB.V., International SOSGmbH,MDMedicusAssistanceServiceGmbH"

That's a very mixed bag, without going into details. They certainly have direct payment agreements with all major private hospitals in Thailand.

 

The people who pay the money are Barmenia, that's a good German insurance. Gothaer is very good. 

 

I copy from their insurance conditions (you find them as the second part of their "consumer conditions"-pdf):

 

"Thepolicyprovisions arewritten inGerman. Anycommunicationduring the termof the insurance will alsobe inGerman. If documents areprovided inEnglish, this is tobeunderstoodas a serviceof the insurer, whichhas noeffect on theagreedcontract language."

 

"The insurancecontract is subject toGerman law."

 

I take it your German is good enough even when you are sick, and that you have a basic understanding of continental European law.

Funnily, I couldn't find their T&Cs in German.

 

 

Thankyou for your kind commentary. 

 

My thinking was that 3 years in existence is long enough for some people to have knowledge and experience of this firm.

 

[Lorry]

5 minutes ago, SportRider said:

3 years in existence

Substract one or two years of covid

[Sheryl]

The experiences you will find online are almost all regarding their travel indurance policies which have been around longer. 

 

The company (s) are not a start up, but the product is. The underwriter and broker who handles claims have been involved in insurance for a while  -- travel policies and possibly domestic (German) health  policies. 

 

As I read the  product description it is DR-Walker thar will handle claims. (Probably a specific office therein). Other entities would come into play in the (unlikely) event of medivac etc  

 

Ourlt of curiousity @SportRider what premium were you quoted and what is your age?

[newbee2022]

On 6/20/2024 at 12:32 PM, SportRider said:

Hi all, I searched but didn't find any reference to this, hence posting a new thread.

 

I was looking at Genki "Native" which seems pretty good, however not applicable for those over 55.  I booked a support call and was told about "Resident" which seems like pretty good cover, and perfect for expats who flit between home country and elsewhere (180 days year cover in home country).  

 

Setting aside the matter of price (it's in my range), does anyone have first hand experience of this company?

 

Many thanks,

SR

 

 

Product Information.pdf 1.03 MB · 14 downloads Genki Resident - Table of Benefits.pdf 1.7 MB · 7 downloads

Barmenia itself offers a travel Insurance. Main field is Health Insurance. These insurances are supervised by govt and EU. Risk Free.

[Lorry]

10 hours ago, Sheryl said:

The company (s) are not a start up

Genki UG (haftungsbeschränkt) is a start-up, founded in 2021.

https://www.webvalid.de/company/Genki+UG+(haftungsbeschränkt),+Köln/HRB+106969

 

The link is in German as it is a German company. 

 

"Genki is a start-up"  as they say on their website 

https://genki.world/about

(scroll to "Our Insurance", read the 3rd paragraph) 

 

Genki is not the same company as Dr Walter or as Barmenia or Gothaer, all these have been around for much longer. Barmenia and Gothaer are domestic insurance companies,  not only for health insurance. 

Dr Walter is a broker specializing in expat insurances. 

 

10 hours ago, Sheryl said:

DR-Walker thar will handle claims

If you go through their  40plus pages of "consumer conditions", versus the end you find their assistance companies (I copied them from there in my first post). 

Dr Walter doesn't handle claims. Assistance companies do. But in the end it's the underwriter who decides.

Of course,  the underwriter will only be bothered for really expensive things,  e.g. intercontinental medevacs.

 

 

[Sheryl]

9 hours ago, Lorry said:

Genki UG (haftungsbeschränkt) is a start-up, founded in 2021.

https://www.webvalid.de/company/Genki+UG+(haftungsbeschränkt),+Köln/HRB+106969

 

The link is in German as it is a German company. 

 

"Genki is a start-up"  as they say on their website 

https://genki.world/about

(scroll to "Our Insurance", read the 3rd paragraph) 

 

Genki is not the same company as Dr Walter or as Barmenia or Gothaer, all these have been around for much longer. Barmenia and Gothaer are domestic insurance companies,  not only for health insurance. 

Dr Walter is a broker specializing in expat insurances. 

 

If you go through their  40plus pages of "consumer conditions", versus the end you find their assistance companies (I copied them from there in my first post). 

Dr Walter doesn't handle claims. Assistance companies do. But in the end it's the underwriter who decides.

Of course,  the underwriter will only be bothered for really expensive things,  e.g. intercontinental medevacs.

 

 

Interesting. As the Product description specifically states that Dr-Walter administers the contract and handles claims. Genki is listed as in charge of product development. 

 

 

I can't find the consumer conditions, can you give link for that?

[Lorry]

I stumbled on them when navigating through their website, which I find quite a mess.

Consumer Conditions.pdf Genki Resident - Table of Benefits.pdf Product Information.pdf Genki Broker Information.pdf

Claims handling has several steps: if hospitalized, the customer deals with the assistance company.  The assistance company works for Dr Walter, which may have a look into things. 

If it's just reimbursement  of expenses the customer paid already (e.g. outpatient treatment),  there is usually no need for an assistance company. 

 

The underwriter always has the final say.

Edited June 22 by Lorry

[SportRider]

So am I right in saying that Genki has identified a specific niche - internationally mobile people who may not be permanently resident in just one location - and then they've worked with established partners to bring a product to market? 

 

Doesn't seem like a bad thing? 

 

Thanks again for all your investigative help! 

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, SportRider said:

So am I right in saying that Genki has identified a specific niche - internationally mobile people who may not be permanently resident in just one location - and then they've worked with established partners to bring a product to market? 

 

Doesn't seem like a bad thing? 

 

Thanks again for all your investigative help! 

That does seem to be the group they have in mind (and one that tends to he young and healthy) but their terms would make expats permanently settled abroad eligible as well, a demographic thay skews old. So they may end up with a pool of insured people very different from what they intended and that would have financial consequences.

 

There is always a risk with new insurance products that their business model may prove insustainable. 

[levlilly]

Hello, this is Lilly from Genki! We offer health insurance specially designed for digital nomads and travelers. While Genki is still a startup, the insurance we offer is backed by some of the largest and most trusted insurance companies in Europe like Barmenia and Allianz. We did launch Genki Explorer in 2021 and now recently, Genki Native, for more long-term travel plans. We do still offer Genki Resident in certain cases such as yours. While the product page of Resident is no longer public, I can still send you the link to it. Please let me know know if you have any questions or need more information! 🫶

[soi3eddie]

Genki Resident page: https://genki.world/products/resident

 

 

[SbuxPlease]

Recently I saw this company's ads on social media and happen to be at renewal time with my current health insurance, so I'm currently checking them out too.

 

The plans at Genki seem quite comprehensive, perhaps even covering scooter driving for unlicensed drivers and a lot of travel-related recreational activities like scuba diving. The limits are high.

 

For some of their plans, they seem to resell a service from a company called "DR-WALTER". There was a thread on Reddit asking about them and the founder replied, so they appear to have a strong desire to maintain their social media presence and brand image. That will come into play if there's an issue - it will matter to them a lot of you call them out in public. 

 

Genki has 4.4 stars on Trustpilot, but it seems like DR-WALTER will be the company that approves and pays out claims so the experience there might matter most. DR WALTER has around 3.7 stars on Trustpilot, which is fairly high for this industry I think.

 

The types of complaints people are bringing (I read all the 1-stars) seem to be mostly related to communication and payment speed. It sounded like some of those people were short on cash leading them to freak out. If the company eventually makes you whole in a reasonable period of time, then the contract is fulfilled. I was looking mostly for complaints from people who were denied a claim when they thought they should be approved, and didn't see much of that.

 

I think I speak for most when I say that the #1 concern with any insurance company is whether they'll be there for you when you need them. Like you need half a million dollars to fix you up after a terrible crash or some kind of long term cancer event. Those are the situations that really wipe people out, and I suspect the kind of claims that insurers work quite hard to deny. I didn't really see any experiences with this, so time will tell.

 

The plans are a bit more expensive than some, but I think I'll give them a try and see how it goes.

 

 

 

Edited August 9 by SbuxPlease