Land of Smiles - really?

[rumak]

4 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

23 minutes ago, ChrisThailand1977 said:

In Europe and the US, the far right are likely to get into power in many countries. That's an utterly horrific scenario and one main reason we left Europe 3 years ago. I could see it coming.

"The Far Right"        "utterly horrific"    You left because of this 3 years ago, were you fearful of ethnic cleansing?

 

probably shrinking in fear of climate change.......  ( he could see it coming)

[Bday Prang]

8 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

No, just one who understands what it takes to have a population have more freedom. I fully understand Thailand is different than all other countries besides those bordering it. I knew how it was years before I moved here. I didn't see all of this come to life until I spent years here, verifying what I heard before. Thailand has many nice things, but like all other places, it has those that keep the population down, and that's not freedom. I'm moving back to America for many reasons, some of which have nothing to do with Thailand but that it doesn't have what I need, and it's also a better place for girls, and women, to live.

I'm not really aware of any lack of freedom being suffered specifically  by the Thai population that the rest of the world is not subject to in one form or another, And whilst there are indeed a lot of people living in what  westerners would call poverty they don't appear to me on the whole to be any more miserable than people living in the west, on the contrary I would say the opposite is true.

But  at least you are "putting your money where your mouth is " as they say . and returning from whence you came, just be careful you are not overwhelmed by all the happy smiling faces you expect to encounter upon your return to the USA and keep a close eye on any girls or women you intend to take with you, especially if they are out alone after dark

[NJHOUSE]

If you keep your encounters very simple and very casual then you will usually be able maintain a positive opinion of Thais, at least the first few years of living here. But try to actually do stuff that you would do back home and your experience will turn negative in no time. The truth is that Thais cannot relate to you, your personality, the characteristics you value in a relationship, etc. Thais live in the moment, are selfish and it is unlikely you can build upon anything with them. Being generous is often misinterpreted and often doesn't establish any sort of reciprocity. They also are generally unable to tell the truth. Actually it is part of the culture to lie (I'm sure people will disagree) but yeah it's true. Many Thais also shun responsibility, even as parents. Basically, integrity is not a thing here - at least not the Western concept of it. There is so much more to say but let's just leave it at that. Again these are generalizations. Of course there are good Thais. 

Edited July 1 by NJHOUSE

[Bday Prang]

21 minutes ago, rumak said:

 

probably shrinking in fear of climate change.......  ( he could see it coming)

Just had an email from a mate in the UK    Its 12 deg C   and pissing down    Global warming eh?  

[fredwiggy]

6 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

I'm not really aware of any lack of freedom being suffered specifically  by the Thai population that the rest of the world is not subject to in one form or another, And whilst there are indeed a lot of people living in what  westerners would call poverty they don't appear to me on the whole to be any more miserable than people living in the west, on the contrary I would say the opposite is true.

But  at least you are "putting your money where your mouth is " as they say . and returning from whence you came, just be careful you are not overwhelmed by all the happy smiling faces you expect to encounter upon your return to the USA and keep a close eye on any girls or women you intend to take with you, especially if they are out alone after dark

I lived in the US for the first 62 years of my life, and have relatives all over it. I'm fully aware what goes on there and what to expect. Never had a problem after dark in all those years, living around major cities all that time, and I feel much safer there than here, where random violence is a lot higher and short fuses seem to be the norm. And always more freedom with democracy , as can be seen with all the protests that went on and will continue.

[fredwiggy]

7 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

Just had an email from a mate in the UK    Its 12 deg C   and pissing down    Global warming eh?  

Freezing and cold temps, especially in areas where they shouldn't be happening at certain times, are an indication of global warming.

[Bday Prang]

8 minutes ago, NJHOUSE said:

If you keep your encounters very simple and very casual then you will usually be able maintain a positive opinion of Thais, at least the first few years of living here. But try to actually do stuff that you would do back home and your experience will turn negative in no time. The truth is that Thais cannot relate to you, your personality, the characteristics you value in a relationship, etc. Thais live in the moment, are selfish and it is unlikely you can build upon anything with them. Being generous is often misinterpreted and often doesn't establish any sort of reciprocity. They also are generally unable to tell the truth. Actually it is part of the culture to lie (I'm sure people will disagree) but yeah it's true. Many Thais also shun responsibility, even as parents. There is so much more to say but let's just leave it at that. Again these are generalizations. Of course there are good Thais. 

Have you ever considered that it might be  you who is  having difficulties relating to the Thais ?   

"selfish" and "generally unable to tell the truth"    Certainly looks that way

" Again these are generalizations. Of course there are good Thais."   presumably the ones who you consider to resemble yourself, have you actually met any, or are you talking hypothetically?

[fredwiggy]

Just now, Bday Prang said:

Have you ever considered that it might be  you who is  having difficulties relating to the Thais ?   

"selfish" and "generally unable to tell the truth"    Certainly looks that way

" Again these are generalizations. Of course there are good Thais."   presumably the ones who you consider to resemble yourself, have you actually met any, or are you talking hypothetically?

You might disagree with anyone spouting facts about living here, but what he's said is true. I've not only seen this since I've lived here, but knew about it decades ago, both from research and word of mouth, not only from those that visited here, but from many Thais I met, and knew, back home. There are of course people here with integrity, and not all lie. My own girlfriend has proven to be as honest as anyone I've ever known, and my ex wife lies all the time, as does many I've known here. Losing face makes one prone to lying, and it's a big facet of living here to not lose face at any cost. I've done a lot for people, especially former relatives, and they rarely if ever say thank you, and expect more with little reciprocity. Since I have more, I should give more, is the thinking. As far as shunning responsibility, this has been proven for many decades, with absent fathers being much the norm, even if they are in the same house as the children. Again, this doesn't mean ll, as I've seen some nurturing here also.

[Bday Prang]

1 minute ago, fredwiggy said:

Freezing and cold temps, especially in areas where they shouldn't be happening at certain times, are an indication of global warming.

Thank you for the unsolicited lesson on global warming Miss Thunberg. So now things getting colder is an indication of things getting warmer, what else would we expect in a world where women can now have a penis and men can have a cervix? 

                 But I was referring to the weather in the UK where cold temperatures are not in anyway either unusual or indeed unexpected in the middle of what should be summer.  Its always been like that in the UK.at least  for the past 60 years that I remember personally,  so to try and use "climate change" as an excuse for what is just normal crap weather is absolute rubbish

[ChrisThailand1977]

42 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

"The Far Right"        "utterly horrific"    You left because of this 3 years ago, were you fearful of ethnic cleansing?

 

I was afraid of an entire collapse of the social order whether they come to power or not, moreso if they do - coupled with violence.

 

My husband grew up in Germany but was always aware of a certain background level of racism, which was likely to get worse.

 

On top of that, despite being legally equal, many people view same-sex relationships with considerable hostility. On this point, Thailand is de facto ahead of Germany, if not de jure (just yet, this is changing).

 

I do not think these fears are overblown actually.

 

Do you have anything to add?

 

[oxo1947]

3 hours ago, ChrisThailand1977 said:

've been here for 3 years, but I'm not happy really

Then go find somewhere more suitable for you  Chris -- I dont mean to be impolite when I say that, but it's amazing that you put with being unhappy--with just one life. I had 20 years in the UK and moved on--12 years in NZ--(found it a little to conservative in 60s/70s) move-20 years on Oz, great place especially for a young person---as in most western places as you age,  you find you are becoming a little invisible in certain circles.  Move on, Tried for shorter time in Cambodia, PI,  Vietnam  etc  been in Thailand 25 years = Very Happy,  But , if I wasn't even at 77 honestly,  I would start to look around---just one life Chris------Just one life.

[fredwiggy]

1 minute ago, Bday Prang said:

Thank you for the unsolicited lesson on global warming Miss Thunberg. So now things getting colder is an indication of things getting warmer, what else would we expect in a world where women can now have a penis and men can have a cervix? 

                 But I was referring to the weather in the UK where cold temperatures are not in anyway either unusual or indeed unexpected in the middle of what should be summer.  Its always been like that in the UK.at least  for the past 60 years that I remember personally,  so to try and use "climate change" as an excuse for what is just normal crap weather is absolute rubbish

Your words..........."Just had an email from a mate in the UK    Its 12 deg C   and pissing down    Global warming eh?"   Like you are disputing that global warming is to blame for the 12C temps. It's easy to research on how getting colder temps is an indication of a warming earth. Changing the jet stream is part of it. 

[bubblegum]

2 hours ago, ChrisThailand1977 said:

 

Well, you may be right.

 

My partner and I are German, he is German/Thai. We're 47 and 38, respectively.

 

So far, I've refused to engage with the 'expat community' as I wanted to make friends among Thais. So I even did a course in Thai with a private teacher, who eventually asked me to lend them money. Which I refused to do. So that was that.

 

I find it very hard to make friends. I have tried, but I find Thai people extremely shy or almost afraid. I understand their English is perhaps poor or non-existent (like my Thai) and I don't hold that against anyone. This is certainly not unique to Thailand.

 

People seem to assume I must have a lot of money, which is not the case, and I don't want to buy everything. I'm very much aware of scams and scammers and avoid them successfully.

 

I have a lot of problems with my Thai "in laws". They assume I'm here to finance them - which I also refuse to do. So they ignore me. My partner accepts that, as he doesn't want to finance them either.

 

So it's just the two of us. We knew it would be hard, but I thought (wrongly) that getting in touch with genuine people would be easier. But it isn't.

 

It's fair to say that this can happen anywhere in the world and it's not just Thailand.

 

The words I used in my initial post were not very carefully considered. Obviously not all Thais are this way. But perhaps someone has some ideas to get in touch with other people.

 

What I miss most is intelligent conversation. I'm not a drinker or someone who parties, unfortunately. I like cooking and entertaining, travelling and culture. I also miss public transportation in Europe as I was able to get around more easily. As someone with epilepsy, I don't drive so my partner does that. That's obviously a big drawback, especially in a country like this.

 

My apologies again for the unfortunate choice of words above.

 

I miss many things about my home in Europe but I want to find out what I'm doing wrong here. I'm very unhappy currently.

 

Thanks

Chris

You just hit every standard complain about Thailand. Sure you're not a bot?

I have been here 20 years and fullhardy disagree!

[Bday Prang]

9 minutes ago, ChrisThailand1977 said:

 

I was afraid of an entire collapse of the social order whether they come to power or not, moreso if they do - coupled with violence.

 

My husband grew up in Germany but was always aware of a certain background level of racism, which was likely to get worse.

 

On top of that, despite being legally equal, many people view same-sex relationships with considerable hostility. On this point, Thailand is de facto ahead of Germany, if not de jure (just yet, this is changing).

 

I do not think these fears are overblown actually.

 

Do you have anything to add?

 

Only that I think you will probably be miserable and disappointed where ever you end up. and on the off chance that you ever do find yourself to be happy, I somehow doubt it will be long before you find something else to moan about. 

 

Edited July 1 by Bday Prang

[Bday Prang]

4 minutes ago, bubblegum said:

You just hit every standard complain about Thailand. Sure you're not a bot?

I have been here 20 years and fullhardy disagree!

Same as that , those who can't be happy here would surely struggle to be happy anywhere

[ChrisThailand1977]

4 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

Thank you for the unsolicited lesson on global warming Miss Thunberg. So now things getting colder is an indication of things getting warmer, what else would we expect in a world where women can now have a penis and men can have a cervix? 

                 But I was referring to the weather in the UK where cold temperatures are not in anyway either unusual or indeed unexpected in the middle of what should be summer.  Its always been like that in the UK.at least  for the past 60 years that I remember personally,  so to try and use "climate change" as an excuse for what is just normal crap weather is absolute rubbish

 

I would prefer no climate change deniers in this thread. Weather and climate are two completely different things, incidentally.

 

The changing climate is definitely something that concerns me and should concern everyone. It is not related specifically to why we moved here three years ago.

 

But I do think it is one reason, ultimately, for the momentous shifts in the European economy and political landscape taking place. No, I don't think it's a hoax at all. The climate is transforming and has led to huge levels of migration in the world and political instability.

 

I don't want to get into any further divisive debate on this though. It's truly shocking why there should be any debate on something so plainly obvious in the first place.

 

[fredwiggy]

2 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

Only that I think you will probably be miserable and disappointed where ever you end up. and on the off chance that you ever do find yourself to be happy, I somehow doubt it will be long before you find something else to moan about. 

There's always a little truth when people complain about things. People here complain about what they actually see and live. There's the saying, one man's loss is another man's gain, one man's pleasure is another man's pain. Some can tolerate most anything and get by, while some things will make it unlivable for others. Then there's the rest of us, who hate some things but tolerate them, and need to move to find true nirvana, or at least as close as it can get within reason. It's always best to live in a place you feel comfortable. All countries have things people can enjoy, even Antarctica, although some places like much of this country, are very boring. Some can live bored and it's okay with them, and others need constant excitement. Again, live where you belong, and get there as soon as possible.

[Bday Prang]

7 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Your words..........."Just had an email from a mate in the UK    Its 12 deg C   and pissing down    Global warming eh?"   Like you are disputing that global warming is to blame for the 12C temps. It's easy to research on how getting colder temps is an indication of a warming earth. Changing the jet stream is part of it. 

Thanks again Greta, but last week it was 30 degrees C for a couple of days,  so by your argument that must be evidence of global cooling then  

[fredwiggy]

Just now, Yamu said:

I find the men are just weak and submissive. You could mog him by taking his wife and daughter and he’d smile at you and do nothing

Unlike the west, some here will kill you for no other reason than he's been embarrassed, and it happens every week. You take another's woman here, and some might not care, but others will shoot you dead. Human nature knows no borders.

[Bday Prang]

2 minutes ago, Yamu said:

I find the men are just weak and submissive. You could mog him by taking his wife and daughter and he’d smile at you and do nothing

Try it and see what happens

[fredwiggy]

17 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

Thanks again Greta, but last week it was 30 degrees C for a couple of days,  so by your argument that must be evidence of global cooling then  

Labeling doesn't fly here, as there are millions that are educated on the subject. Most just don't get on TV.  I just said it was you that seemed to dispute that global warming causes cold when you said Global warming eh?

Edited July 1 by fredwiggy

[Bday Prang]

3 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

There's always a little truth when people complain about things. People here complain about what they actually see and live. There's the saying, one man's loss is another man's gain, one man's pleasure is another man's pain. Some can tolerate most anything and get by, while some things will make it unlivable for others. Then there's the rest of us, who hate some things but tolerate them, and need to move to find true nirvana, or at least as close as it can get within reason. It's always best to live in a place you feel comfortable. All countries have things people can enjoy, even Antarctica, although some places like much of this country, are very boring. Some can live bored and it's okay with them, and others need constant excitement. Again, live where you belong, and get there as soon as possible.

Boredom comes from within oneself, as does the majority of unhappiness and negativity 

[fredwiggy]

22 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

Same as that , those who can't be happy here would surely struggle to be happy anywhere

Again I disagree because I was quite content living in the US. I moved here because my wife at the time didn't want to move to the US, for reasons that weren't valid but had me move to a place I really didn't want to live, but our daughter was born here and I'm not one to shirk a dad's responsibility. Soon as possible, I will be leaving here with that daughter.

Edited July 1 by fredwiggy

[bob smith]

A fantastic post, well done Chris for speaking your mind!

 

Thailand is anything but the land of smiles.

 

It is the land of fake smiles, should really be called Lieland. 

 

Everything here is superficial, especially encounters between locals and foriegners.

There is nothing genuine here and everything is for sale.

Honesty and integrity is completely alien to most Thais, sadly.

 

bob.

Edited July 1 by bob smith

[fredwiggy]

Just now, Bday Prang said:

Boredom comes from within oneself, as does the majority of unhappiness and negativity 

Usually that's true, but if you're an outdoor person who likes the hobbies I do, and you can't do some of them here and others are quite hard to replicate or different, you get bored. Living around negative people and or narcissists tends to wear some down, where it's very hard to be yourself. Again, living in a place where you feel comfortable is a lot easier.

[save the frogs]

2 hours ago, ChrisThailand1977 said:

What I miss most is intelligent conversation.

you come to the right place, chris.

that's what AN is for.

[bob smith]

1 minute ago, save the frogs said:

you come to the right place, chris.

that's what AN is for.

...it is when you aren't around!

 

bob.

[bob smith]

3 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

of course a lot of it is fake based on money but isn't that the same everywhere, work out where you are going wrong

Thailand and Asia in general takes money and greed to a whole new level!

 

bob.

[save the frogs]

3 minutes ago, bob smith said:

...it is when you aren't around!

 

bob.

I'm actually happy for you, bob.

I'm glad to see you made a new friend.

Life can get dark without like-minded souls I imagine?

But fortunately for you Chris is on the same wavelength as you. 

So you don't need to feel so lonely anymore. 

[bob smith]

30 minutes ago, Yamu said:

I find the men are just weak and submissive. You could mog him by taking his wife and daughter and he’d smile at you and do nothing

...I love a mother and daughter combo!

 

bob.