Morotcycle Brakes

[a2396]

I tried this on the motoring forum, but got no replies. Maybe more readers here.

I have a Yahaha Mio which has a front disc brake. It is very sensitive & can easliy flip the bike if pressed to hard in a quick stop. I was advised to only use two fingers to manipulate this brake, which helps avoid this problem. But, it is a very unbalanced arrangement compared to the rear drum brake, which has very little stopping power. I have seen some MC's whith a larger sized rotor on the front. Does this have some usefull purpose or is it just for looks. Do you know of any automatic MC's that have a more even & balanced braking set-up?

[Tattoo180sx]

whats the tension like in the cables? check to see if they feel too tight or loose. ie: front too tight, back too lose.

did you recently get it serviced, pads changed or is the bike new to you?

brakes, especially discs, come in heaps of shapes, sizes and prices. are you getting confused with slotted or cross-drilled brake discs?

theres also a standard size / stopping power they are built to regarding the bikes power, its the same with cars - a turbo car will have bigger brakes than a non turbo, even if its the same car - year/make/model, etc

Edited July 31, 2007 by Tattoo180sx

[PeaceBlondie]

I don't know; I don't ride scooters much at all. But in 350,000 kilometers on two wheels (11 models and several rentals), I've never had one that would easily flip me over the handlebar if pressed too hard. That includes 50,000 miles on a big bike with two big disk front brakes. The normal advice in riding school is to use both brakes, and not to use the front too hard. Of course, if you have a terribly skinny front tyre of poor design, it'll slide before it flips you. Maybe you just need to practice more. Maybe Mios are poorly designed. I don't think it matters if you have an automatic transmission. Could it be that you got answers in the motoring forum, and just didn't like the answers? I don't know.

[ozzydom]

I tried this on the motoring forum, but got no replies. Maybe more readers here.

I have a Yahaha Mio which has a front disc brake. It is very sensitive & can easliy flip the bike if pressed to hard in a quick stop. I was advised to only use two fingers to manipulate this brake, which helps avoid this problem. But, it is a very unbalanced arrangement compared to the rear drum brake, which has very little stopping power. I have seen some MC's whith a larger sized rotor on the front. Does this have some usefull purpose or is it just for looks. Do you know of any automatic MC's that have a more even & balanced braking set-up?

Auto m/c,s are at a disadvantage for a start because they have no engine braking,I believe the Honda Air Blade and maybe one other model have a dual braking system.

The optimal panic stop on a m/c is one that stops in a straight line without lockup and in the least distance. To hard on your rear brake and you end up with the bike slipping out from under you,to hard on the front and you high side,so the optimum is in between the two.

60% rear to 40% front braking effect is about it, but it still requires practise ,practise, practise,you should not even venture out on the road until you feel secure in the knowledge that you can stop in time when the situation arises, most times these panic situations arise because of your own inattentiveness to your surroundings ,EQ.if you are riding at a safe distance from the vehicle in front and you are observant of their actions then a panic stop situation has little chance of arising.

[a2396]

I don't know; I don't ride scooters much at all. But in 350,000 kilometers on two wheels (11 models and several rentals), I've never had one that would easily flip me over the handlebar if pressed too hard. That includes 50,000 miles on a big bike with two big disk front brakes. The normal advice in riding school is to use both brakes, and not to use the front too hard. Of course, if you have a terribly skinny front tyre of poor design, it'll slide before it flips you. Maybe you just need to practice more. Maybe Mios are poorly designed. I don't think it matters if you have an automatic transmission. Could it be that you got answers in the motoring forum, and just didn't like the answers? I don't know.

I never got any replies to this post on the motoring forum. I am not an expert on motorcycles, but my opinion is that the MIO is bit unbalanced. Certainly the braking sensitivity front to back is very unequal. I am running the stock tires, which are relatively new. I was not flipped over the handlebars, but the bike jack-knifed, with the front end nose-diving. This has happened about 3 times in the year or so that I have been riding it and panic & unavoidable situations, ie people turning in front of me totally unexpected. Most recent was a large passanger bus that "jumped" a red light (ie red for him, green for me) & start to move in front of me as I entered the intersection, he either did not see me or didn't care.

[chownah]

Never had a bike that could flip over forward (maybe if you intentionally leaned way forward and tried it would go) from braking and when I get a bike I always test the front brake first by doing hard stops with the front brake alone to get a feel for how they work since 60% or more of your braking in a hard stop will be on the front wheel and the harder the stop the greater the percent will be on the front wheel so the front brake is crucial. I agree with PeaceBlondie pretty much. A quick acting front brake is not bad as long as it applies smoothly across its range....if it is easy to depress then you just need to develop the confidence in using it so that you don't do a panic grab every time you are startled. You should always assume that a hard stop will be necessary at any moment and that way you will be ready to save your life when something unexpected happens...to assume that you can avoid hard stops altogether is a fools wish....I don't know of anyone who has ridden for very long that has not had to make a hard stop.

[ozzydom]

...to assume that you can avoid hard stops altogether is a fools wish....I don't know of anyone who has ridden for very long that has not had to make a hard stop. Quote-=

Exactly why people should practise panic stops until competant before venturing out into the mad Thailand traffic and putting theirs and others life and limb at risk.

[goldfish]

Chill, you only started the thread in the motoring section at 12pm. I would have answered when I got there.

There's nothing wrong with the standard mio brakes. I have done many track miles on an R1, Aprilia RSV-R and Fireblade and now ride a mio in Samui. I do know about bikes. It doesn't matter how warm you get the tyres, the bike will not flip. It's possible the brake is grabbing/sticking. The bike comes out the factory with no grease on the front caliper. Find a mechanic who is capable (not as easy as it sounds. Once told a hire bike owner what the problem was with the front brake, Yamaha had the bike for 2 days and couldn't sort it. It's a 5 minute job. Idiots!). Sorry. Anyway, find a decent mechanic to take the pads out, pop the piston out a fraction, clean it and grease the sliding pins with heat resistant grease. It's what's called a floating caliper. No grease, no float.

Got that? Good. Now learn to ride the thing. Index and second finger on brake lever, other two fingers wrapped around throttle. You go grabbing a handful of front brake without any sensitivity or feeling then expect to eat tarmac

Hope this helps

[a2396]

Chill, you only started the thread in the motoring section at 12pm. I would have answered when I got there.

There's nothing wrong with the standard mio brakes. I have done many track miles on an R1, Aprilia RSV-R and Fireblade and now ride a mio in Samui. I do know about bikes. It doesn't matter how warm you get the tyres, the bike will not flip. It's possible the brake is grabbing/sticking. The bike comes out the factory with no grease on the front caliper. Find a mechanic who is capable (not as easy as it sounds. Once told a hire bike owner what the problem was with the front brake, Yamaha had the bike for 2 days and couldn't sort it. It's a 5 minute job. Idiots!). Sorry. Anyway, find a decent mechanic to take the pads out, pop the piston out a fraction, clean it and grease the sliding pins with heat resistant grease. It's what's called a floating caliper. No grease, no float.

Got that? Good. Now learn to ride the thing. Index and second finger on brake lever, other two fingers wrapped around throttle. You go grabbing a handful of front brake without any sensitivity or feeling then expect to eat tarmac

Hope this helps

Thanks for the reply. This is a stock bike & may need the work you describe. If the sliding pins need grease to function properly, why don't they do this at the factory or at least check for it at the dealership? Why dont they use disc brakes on the rear as well & what is the purpose of the larger diameter rotors?

[ozzydom]

Chill, you only started the thread in the motoring section at 12pm. I would have answered when I got there.

There's nothing wrong with the standard mio brakes. I have done many track miles on an R1, Aprilia RSV-R and Fireblade and now ride a mio in Samui. I do know about bikes. It doesn't matter how warm you get the tyres, the bike will not flip. It's possible the brake is grabbing/sticking. The bike comes out the factory with no grease on the front caliper. Find a mechanic who is capable (not as easy as it sounds. Once told a hire bike owner what the problem was with the front brake, Yamaha had the bike for 2 days and couldn't sort it. It's a 5 minute job. Idiots!). Sorry. Anyway, find a decent mechanic to take the pads out, pop the piston out a fraction, clean it and grease the sliding pins with heat resistant grease. It's what's called a floating caliper. No grease, no float.

Got that? Good. Now learn to ride the thing. Index and second finger on brake lever, other two fingers wrapped around throttle. You go grabbing a handful of front brake without any sensitivity or feeling then expect to eat tarmac

Hope this helps

Thanks for the reply. This is a stock bike & may need the work you describe. If the sliding pins need grease to function properly, why don't they do this at the factory or at least check for it at the dealership? Why dont they use disc brakes on the rear as well & what is the purpose of the larger diameter rotors?

They are fashion statements,you reckon your overbraked now so dont give them a thought

[JetsetBkk]

I was not flipped over the handlebars, but the bike jack-knifed, with the front end nose-diving. This has happened about 3 times in the year or so that I have been riding it and panic & unavoidable situations, ie people turning in front of me totally unexpected.

I'm sure you're not going to like this, but it seems to me that you need to change the way you ride and be more aware of the road conditions. I don't just mean whether it's smooth and dry, I mean whether it is a built-up area, whether there are ways onto the road that are obscured, whether other riders and vehicles are going to see you or even care if you are there. You cannot ride in Thailand like you would in your home country. It doesn't work. You have to assume that the bike 10m in front of you is going to turn right just as you overtake, that the pick-up waiting to pull out from the left will pull out in front of you, etc.

Most recent was a large passanger bus that "jumped" a red light (ie red for him, green for me) & start to move in front of me as I entered the intersection, he either did not see me or didn't care.

Of course he didn't care - he's bigger than you and you must stop. Forget about the lights being red for him - if he's already up to speed he's not going to bother stopping for you. You'd better get used to this way of thinking when you're driving in Thailand or you won't last long.

PS. I said you wouldn't like it, but it's true.

[PeaceBlondie]

Why dont they use disc brakes on the rear as well & what is the purpose of the larger diameter rotors?

Very few bikes designed for the Thai market and sold here have, or need, a disc brake at the rear. The CBR150, Phantom 200, Suzuki Raider 150, Sonic 125, are about the only ones. And you don't need a huge diameter rotor, either. Most riders in Thailand are ignorant of proper riding habits, yet most of them survive by what we call "defensive driving" as if everybody else in the road is a homicidal maniac.

[ozzydom]

Why dont they use disc brakes on the rear as well & what is the purpose of the larger diameter rotors?

Very few bikes designed for the Thai market and sold here have, or need, a disc brake at the rear. The CBR150, Phantom 200, Suzuki Raider 150, Sonic 125, are about the only ones. And you don't need a huge diameter rotor, either. Most riders in Thailand are ignorant of proper riding habits, yet most of them survive by what we call "defensive driving" as if everybody else in the road is a homicidal maniac.

Arnt they.

[A_Traveller]

... yet most of them survive by what we call "defensive driving" as if everybody else in the road is a homicidal maniac.

You mean they're not?

Regards

[t.s]

having never seen you ride, nor having ridden the bike myself, i am not going to make any assumption regarding your ability or the setup of the bike.

I can, however, say that larger diameter front brakes are on almost all vehicles from cars to trucks to bikes. this is because the majority of the stopping force is generated from the front where the weight of the vehicle loads the front wheels and they are less likely to break out than the rear. The rear, especially on bikes is used to help maintain control and stablity under braking.

it does sound like the brake grabs rather than progresses, and servicing the brake and greasing the caliper certainly couldn't hurt. it might also help find something else that may be a problem.

[madjbs]

60% rear to 40% front

This should be 60% front 40% rear, maybe even a higher percentage for the front in dry conditions.

There is 0% chance that you can flip a mio over with the standard brake and tyres. If you are jack knifing it then you’re using too much front brake in tight slow corners, its possible its grabbing on like someone else suggested as well.

Its all about riding style, small bikes really don’t need a disk brake at the back, the sensitivity you mention is probably because disk brakes give much more feel than drums, drums often have a mushy feel.

Jake

[a2396]

I was not flipped over the handlebars, but the bike jack-knifed, with the front end nose-diving. This has happened about 3 times in the year or so that I have been riding it and panic & unavoidable situations, ie people turning in front of me totally unexpected.

I'm sure you're not going to like this, but it seems to me that you need to change the way you ride and be more aware of the road conditions. I don't just mean whether it's smooth and dry, I mean whether it is a built-up area, whether there are ways onto the road that are obscured, whether other riders and vehicles are going to see you or even care if you are there. You cannot ride in Thailand like you would in your home country. It doesn't work. You have to assume that the bike 10m in front of you is going to turn right just as you overtake, that the pick-up waiting to pull out from the left will pull out in front of you, etc.

Most recent was a large passanger bus that "jumped" a red light (ie red for him, green for me) & start to move in front of me as I entered the intersection, he either did not see me or didn't care.

Of course he didn't care - he's bigger than you and you must stop. Forget about the lights being red for him - if he's already up to speed he's not going to bother stopping for you. You'd better get used to this way of thinking when you're driving in Thailand or you won't last long.

PS. I said you wouldn't like it, but it's true.

Just to clarify about the traffic incident. The bus was already stopped at the light & I was proceeding through the intersection on green. I was almost in front of him when he starded to move forward, with the light red for him (I presume, unless there is some problem with the light timing). I recently noticed there is a bike forum, within the motoring forum page, on TVisa. There is a good discussion about the pros & cons of Honda Air Blade & Yamaha Nouvo, and discusses this braking issue.