Stickman Reports Bkk 1st World Prices, 3rd World Quality

[bendix]

Well, I'm not here because it's cheap. I'm here for career and lifestyle reasons.

That it's cheap just means a better life - with better accomodation - is possible.

[dog412]

Well, I'm not here because it's cheap. I'm here for career and lifestyle reasons.

That it's cheap just means a better life - with better accomodation - is possible.

i am never one to take away what a working man can get. long may it last you. sincerely.

[Jimjim]

And cheap it still is, Bendix.

[stickman]

if we are feeling the pinch then what about the thais? has the somtam lady across the road already increased her prices yet? or maybe it's it just our lifestyle? i have read that stickman had a buffet dinner at sheraton for 990++ baht, that's a "no go" for thais isn't it?

so where do farang go and spend money anyway?

Correction: Stickman had a buffet at 495 baht ++. 990 baht ++ is more than I would be prepared to pay.

[soundman]

Correction: Stickman had a buffet at 495 baht ++. 990 baht ++ is more than I would be prepared to pay.

Any ++ is more than I'm prepared to pay! Does marketing really think by putting a ++ after their price that it makes them absolved from the fact that they are adding an extra 17%.

Worst marketing ploy ever inveted to hide the real price. Price inclusive is far more honest!

Soundman.

[maipleur]

I just read Stickman's weekly Stickmark II column. He has a review in many categories and concludes that Bangkok prices are reaching unrealistic levels. Combined with the dollar exchange rate I suppose it's time to realize that Thailand is just not cheap anymore; not for tourists, not for expats.

Personally, I'm not very good about watching the budget, but now that I think about it, I have really been running through the cash monthly lately.

So, welcome all to the new upscale expensive Asian destination: Thailand!

* as Stickman is a member on this forum, please do correct me if I mis-stated any conclusions on your website.

I think Thailand in general is overpriced in the main areas.. The infrastructure you get is substandard for the price imho.

Many of my friends drive to their big fancy homes via a dirt road and the electricity is off sometimes for 3 hours day..

local Thai food prices are ok, but some of the nicer comfort food is way overpriced...

I think comparisons with London do not work. London is the most expensive place I have ver been to.

Comparisons with Sydney would be on par I think, except Sydney has all the bells and whistles (well minus a couple ).. Thailand is getting a little greedy imo, but then again supply and demand in all areas will sort it out.

[terryp]

You have summed it up very well…overpriced for what you get

[obsession]

I have enjoyed reading stickman over the years but for a while now he has been bitching about cost of living in Thailand , imho if he realy feels that strongly about it he knows where the airport is .

JB

You could also argue if you don't like what he says you don't have to read it.

You beat me to it.

[dukkha]

For me it seems that the cost of living is about a third of what I would be paying in Awstrayia..

but prices are not the reason for me being here, I am on a fixed income here and know looking at

rental prices etc..are well out of my range 7 years on..I have a comfortable life here on 80 000 baht

per month and am able to live with a level of comfort not available to me back home as well as other

things which have kept me here, yes it does involve a thai partner, but je ne regret rien...in time as

old man time catches up may have to consider a return purely for medical reasons, but am not aout

to pre-empt anything insidious...Dukkha

[obsession]

I think some people are missing the point. The OP said stickman compares the priceing to the quality. You can get things cheap, but theres not the same quality. You can get a cheap taxi in los, but some are old and they dont have the same safety standards os seatbelts etc. Half of them dont even know the roads. Same with the food, you can get cheap food, but theres no health and safety etc. You cant compare noodles from a rusty old cart to uk or us prices. Hotels are getting more expensive and dont have fire escapes or smoke alarms. Some are comparing London rents with Bkk rents. Thats ludicrous. In London you could earn an almost unlimited salary and have all the culture and world class entertainment you could wish for. As he said.... Ist world prices for third world quality. Go for the same quality as your home country and Thailand could work out nearly as expensive. IMHO

[TAWP]

Having a 40minute trip take 1.5h at 4am while rushing to get to a visa bus is really fun...to his defence it was his first week as a cabdriver.

[bangkoksingapore]

i dont quite understand the criticism of paying 2000 us a month for a condo. i rent a 60sqm room for 30k baht a month. if i had a family, i would easily be in the 2000 us/month range. i live in a very central location. i could get a similar place for half the cost in a less central location, but then i would have to travel an extra 40-45 daily when I went out. 30 x 45 minutes means that in a month i save 23 hours of travel time for 15K baht. depending on how much you make in an hour, it makes sense to get the more centrally located apartment.

[obsession]

i dont quite understand the criticism of paying 2000 us a month for a condo. i rent a 60sqm room for 30k baht a month. if i had a family, i would easily be in the 2000 us/month range. i live in a very central location. i could get a similar place for half the cost in a less central location, but then i would have to travel an extra 40-45 daily when I went out. 30 x 45 minutes means that in a month i save 23 hours of travel time for 15K baht. depending on how much you make in an hour, it makes sense to get the more centrally located apartment.

Yes, depending on your hourly wage, it does make sense for you to live nearer your work. But I think that sounds expensive for a third world city. 60sqm wouldnt be much different fom that cost in a uk city and would probably be a lot lower a percentage of your wage and your landlord would be licensed and the property up to european union safety standards. I think thats what stickman was meaning. 1st world prices for 3rd world quality. To be fair though. If you factor in quality if life, then los wins

[palm]

I think some people are missing the point. The OP said stickman compares the priceing to the quality. You can get things cheap, but theres not the same quality. You can get a cheap taxi in los, but some are old and they dont have the same safety standards os seatbelts etc. Half of them dont even know the roads. Same with the food, you can get cheap food, but theres no health and safety etc. You cant compare noodles from a rusty old cart to uk or us prices. Hotels are getting more expensive and dont have fire escapes or smoke alarms. Some are comparing London rents with Bkk rents. Thats ludicrous. In London you could earn an almost unlimited salary and have all the culture and world class entertainment you could wish for. As he said.... Ist world prices for third world quality. Go for the same quality as your home country and Thailand could work out nearly as expensive. IMHO

What a load of old codswallop.

I've been taking taxis here everyday for 3 years - maybe once or twice have I been in one where the driver didn't know where to go. The taxis are dirt cheap here and most of them are very clean.

You say there are no fire alarms or fire exits in hotels in Bangkok? You ever stayed in a hotel here? Or are you referring to a 100baht a night slum?

Foreigners who live in Thailand don't all earn 30,000 baht a month. We aren't all bums or on pitiful teachers salaries barely able to get by; we own international companies or do business worldwide. I own very nice property in London and I get far better value for money here in Bangkok than I can get in London. The quality and value I get here in the high quality restaurants and hotels is outstanding - as good as anything I experience in London, New York, Paris or Rio, and FAR better value for money.

Edited August 8, 2007 by palm

[bkk_mike]

Bangkok is getting like London, Sticks right about the pricing thing, but thats why I usually stay the hel_l away Bangkok

I cant think of anything that i pay for when in Thailand that compares with the prices i pay in London , the only and nearest thing i can think of is a cup of starbucks coffee and i think its 30/50 percent cheaper in Thailand to uk .

JB

Ps i think some people just like to complaine about everything like my next door neigbour that complained about the birds singing in the trees

There are a few things that seem expensive here compared to London.

Half-decent internet (if you could really find it) costs more here. I pay more here for a fairly reliable, but very slow connection with True, than I pay for my 24Mb connection with a fixed IP address in London. (I only actually get 15Mb there - I'm too far from the exchange for the full 24Mb).

Mobile phones (GSM phones are cheaper in the UK - look at the price of a Razr).

Chocolates - why do they cost so much more here? I realise they need to be transported in refrigerated containers and the like, but so does ice cream, and ice cream is a LOT cheaper in Thailand.

[Sanpatong]

This just dawned on me.

Thailand is VERY suitable for single (or single-ish) men with an easy going unfussed attitude who enjoy service and general quality of life, meaning THEIR life. They're men, they don't care if some things are less safe or less high quality or generally less controlled/managed, in fact they LIKE things not being controlled. They basically like freedom, and Thailand gives them a whole lot of the stuff for seriously little money.

[You just know there's a 'but' coming up don't you.. ]

BUT, if you don't fit into the above because you want to raise a family or run a business or have hobbies that go beyond women, the Premier League and riding loud motorcycles, then you may very well find that in order to have things be as safe, as reliable or as professional as you would be in Europe, then Thailand isn't cheap anymore, and that's assuming you can even obtain the same level of safety, reliability and professionalism and the answer more often than not is 'you can't'.

I'm not saying one lifestyle or another is better or worse than another one, but I think it's safe to say that to people in group 1 (first paragraph) will find Thailand cheap and awesome quality/value for money. People in the other group will find out what international schools cost, and NOT find out why nobody seems to run school buses with seatbelts / child safety seats and a background check of the driver no matter what they pay.

Stickman may himself be moving somewhat from group 1 towards group 2, and then indeed prices seem to go up even though it's very much related to maturing into group 2 and finding out that Thailand isn't everything to everyone all of the time. My maid makes 4000 baht a month so if prices were truly increasing then she'd be dead by now. She ISN'T.

Edited August 8, 2007 by Sanpatong

[obsession]

I think some people are missing the point. The OP said stickman compares the priceing to the quality. You can get things cheap, but theres not the same quality. You can get a cheap taxi in los, but some are old and they dont have the same safety standards os seatbelts etc. Half of them dont even know the roads. Same with the food, you can get cheap food, but theres no health and safety etc. You cant compare noodles from a rusty old cart to uk or us prices. Hotels are getting more expensive and dont have fire escapes or smoke alarms. Some are comparing London rents with Bkk rents. Thats ludicrous. In London you could earn an almost unlimited salary and have all the culture and world class entertainment you could wish for. As he said.... Ist world prices for third world quality. Go for the same quality as your home country and Thailand could work out nearly as expensive. IMHO

What a load of old codswallop.

I've been taking taxis here everyday for 3 years - maybe once or twice have I been in one where the driver didn't know where to go. The taxis are dirt cheap here and most of them are very clean.

You say there are no fire alarms or fire exits in hotels in Bangkok? You ever stayed in a hotel here? Or are you referring to a 100baht a night slum?

Foreigners who live in Thailand don't all earn 30,000 baht a month. We aren't all bums or on pitiful teachers salaries barely able to get by; we own international companies or do business worldwide. I own very nice property in London and I get far better value for money here in Bangkok than I can get in London. The quality and value I get here in the high quality restaurants and hotels is outstanding - as good as anything I experience in London, New York, Paris or Rio, and FAR better value for money.

Its you thats talking codswallop. As usual. You dont get hotels for 100bht in Bkk. Ive stayed in the majestic , the nana , the dynasty inn and the swiss grottino. Only the grottino had sprinklers and smoke alarms.

Have you ever tried pointing to a place on a map and asking the taxi driver to take you there. I think most of them cant read maps. In london they have to do the knowledge, which I believe can take up to two years. Ive never had a taxi with a seatbelt that works in Bkk, and I doubt if there any safety checks or that the passengers are insured. They are cheap, but its for a 3rd world level of service.

I doubt that you get an equal quality of restaurant in Bkk that you do in Paris or London. Not top end restaurants. You get the worlds best michelin starred chefs in those two cities. Not that I dine in those places, but get your facts straight.

Can you ever post without trying to boast about your" superb luxury lifestyle" or "international businesses". Nobody is interested or even believes you.

And dont assume everyone is " a bum or ptifull teacher" ( YOUR words) What an arrogant thing to say. Those teachers probably do thailand a lot more good than you do. You are an arrogant <deleted>.

[JimsKnight]

Some good posts here guys and gals. A difference of opinion guys, it shouldn't get too personal like that. Some people have seen a different part of BKK thats all.

Sanpatong has hit the nail on the head for me with what the deal is...

[Ijustwannateach]

Hey, man, it's not a matter of money! I *choose* to live in a cardboard box (it has great ventilation!)

[Sanpatong]

Hey, man, it's not a matter of money! I *choose* to live in a cardboard box (it has great ventilation!)

Back when backpackers were REAL travellers some were actually pretty close to that.. Hammock, mozzie net and a bit of plastic and the World is your hotel room.

[bendix]

You are an arrogant <deleted>.

palm may be an arrogant <deleted>, but by proudly informing us that your hotels of choice are Nana, Swiss Grottini, Majestic and Dynasty tells us all we need to know about you

[Payboy]

Chocolates - why do they cost so much more here? I realise they need to be transported in refrigerated containers and the like, but so does ice cream, and ice cream is a LOT cheaper in Thailand.

most chocolates are imported and cross oceans in refrigerated containers - while most icecream is produced in thailand and only delivered locally in refrigerated containers. for e.g. haagen dazs is imported and so it costs 3-4 times more than other ice cream..

[obsession]

You are an arrogant <deleted>.

palm may be an arrogant <deleted>, but by proudly informing us that your hotels of choice are Nana, Swiss Grottini, Majestic and Dynasty tells us all we need to know about you

Not "proud" . Just proving that I was basing my opinion more than one and it wasnt in one of his imaginary 100bht hotels. And yes, you"ve sussed me out

[Donnyboy]

Hey, man, it's not a matter of money! I *choose* to live in a cardboard box (it has great ventilation!)

Back when backpackers were REAL travellers some were actually pretty close to that.. Hammock, mozzie net and a bit of plastic and the World is your hotel room.

the world can be someone elses toilet too!

[bkkbaz]

Stick makes me laugh - "oh no, my imported steak costs more than pad thai from a street cart"... Who's actually writing the column these days?

If I may tackle his points individually:

• Socks, I'm not sure what his point is. Cheap socks are, um, cheap. A good start.
  
• Brand names are expensive, apparently. I honestly wouldn't know. If you want to look like an advertising hoarding but don't want to pay, you won't exactly struggle to find cheap replicas.
  
• Electronics are not particularly cheap here. Never have been. Next.
  
• On the medical front, any guesses where his Swiss friend wanted to get her liposuction? Is it on Sukhumvit soi 3, by any chance? There are countless hospitals in Bangkok, you just need to shop around. Yes, Bumrungrad is exceptionally expensive. This is because it's a world-renowned hospital. Some of London's more exclusive nightclubs are exceptionally expensive, too. This doesn't mean you can't get a cheap pint in London - you just need to know where to go.
  
• Giving birth costs 100,000 baht? Quick, someone tell the several million Thai women of Bangkok, who I suggest might possibly not all be able to pay quite that much... Seriously, who writes this stuff?
  
• Most I ever paid to get into a club in Thailand was 500b at Narcissus. Peanuts compared to the London equivalents. Yes, the hotel bars are a rip-off. Nothing new. Who on earth drinks in them? Who'd want to?
  
• Imported beef is going to cost more than local beef. This is because it's been shipped several thousand miles to get here. This is not rocket science, people. My local pub in the UK was charging £12.99 for chewy steak 2 years ago. Sauce and/or french fries were extra. And no, I didn't even live in London.
  
• I would be very, very scared of any UK pub selling fish and chips for £3 a plate. You didn't get much change out of £10 last time I indulged, so best part of 700b. No contest.
  
• No opinion on his education points - I have no kids, but if I did I certainly wouldn't educate them in Thailand. So I can appreciate that this is overpriced, but for different reasons.
  
• Accomodation in Bangkok is so cheap it's practically free. Another poor article, but at least it's provided an amusing thread!
  

[bendix]

Oh but bkkbaz, why let silly things like facts get in the way of bigoted opinion? It's much more comforting for people to have a whine if their unhappiness is based on not knowing bugger all about what they're talking about, dont you think?

Edited August 9, 2007 by bendix

[thai_narak]

if we are feeling the pinch then what about the thais? has the somtam lady across the road already increased her prices yet? or maybe it's it just our lifestyle? i have read that stickman had a buffet dinner at sheraton for 990++ baht, that's a "no go" for thais isn't it?

so where do farang go and spend money anyway?

Correction: Stickman had a buffet at 495 baht ++. 990 baht ++ is more than I would be prepared to pay.

and how much did you pay for your membership card to get the 50% discount? bangkok (or anywhere in the world) can get really expensive but that depends where you spend your money. once i ate noddle in tokyo for 500 baht... and never again.

[stickman]

and how much did you pay for your membership card to get the 50% discount? bangkok (or anywhere in the world) can get really expensive but that depends where you spend your money. once i ate noddle in tokyo for 500 baht... and never again.

The membership card was free.

[obsession]

Stick makes me laugh - "oh no, my imported steak costs more than pad thai from a street cart"... Who's actually writing the column these days?

If I may tackle his points individually:

• Socks, I'm not sure what his point is. Cheap socks are, um, cheap. A good start.
  
• Brand names are expensive, apparently. I honestly wouldn't know. If you want to look like an advertising hoarding but don't want to pay, you won't exactly struggle to find cheap replicas.
  
• Electronics are not particularly cheap here. Never have been. Next.
  
• On the medical front, any guesses where his Swiss friend wanted to get her liposuction? Is it on Sukhumvit soi 3, by any chance? There are countless hospitals in Bangkok, you just need to shop around. Yes, Bumrungrad is exceptionally expensive. This is because it's a world-renowned hospital. Some of London's more exclusive nightclubs are exceptionally expensive, too. This doesn't mean you can't get a cheap pint in London - you just need to know where to go.
  
• Giving birth costs 100,000 baht? Quick, someone tell the several million Thai women of Bangkok, who I suggest might possibly not all be able to pay quite that much... Seriously, who writes this stuff?
  
• Most I ever paid to get into a club in Thailand was 500b at Narcissus. Peanuts compared to the London equivalents. Yes, the hotel bars are a rip-off. Nothing new. Who on earth drinks in them? Who'd want to?
  
• Imported beef is going to cost more than local beef. This is because it's been shipped several thousand miles to get here. This is not rocket science, people. My local pub in the UK was charging £12.99 for chewy steak 2 years ago. Sauce and/or french fries were extra. And no, I didn't even live in London.
  
• I would be very, very scared of any UK pub selling fish and chips for £3 a plate. You didn't get much change out of £10 last time I indulged, so best part of 700b. No contest.
  
• No opinion on his education points - I have no kids, but if I did I certainly wouldn't educate them in Thailand. So I can appreciate that this is overpriced, but for different reasons.
  
• Accomodation in Bangkok is so cheap it's practically free. Another poor article, but at least it's provided an amusing thread!
  

Sorry mate, but thats nonsense. You have almost trebled the uk cost for food alone. The biggest pub chain in the uk ( whetherspoons ) is £3.50 for fish and chips. Maybe the £12.99 pub thought you were a foreigner and gouged you I think you recollect that wrongly.

A fortnight in a Bkk hotel costs about the same as a fortnights holiday , including flights and sometimes all meals, to Spain, Turkey, the canary islands, greece etc etc. I prefer to pay the extra for los, but its undoubtedly surpassing some !st world prices. A two and a half flight from the uk to mainland europe can be a 3rd of the cost from Bkk to chiang mai.

Even the Nana hotel disco is over 500 bht to get in. ( dont tell Bendix I was there ) And it doesnt come anywhere near a !st world sound/ light system.

I will need to open a business in los to take advantage of everyones delight in overpaying.

[sgunn65]

Someone said that Bangkok is getting like London!!!

I live in a nice part of London not the best and a way from the worst.

A one bedroom flat 16.5 million baht and rising which is ten times the average wage

an average Thai meal with one beer each no dessert 2760 baht

2 bottles of beer in a pub 490baht

5 takeaway sandwich lunches for work 1200baht

1 bus ride 140 baht

council tax 100,000 baht per year

just owning a car (tax insurance parking permit) 60,000 per year - does not include hp payments, petrol, servicing and wear and tear

cinema 550 baht

dvd hire 275

dvd purchase 1200 baht

massage ( 1 hour) 3450 baht

tee shirt 700 baht+

pair of levi jeans 4140 baht

1kg jasmine rice 140 baht

Just a small selection of prices. Yes I know the earning capacity is higher and relative costs are different but I find my costs are less than half when I am in Bkk.