Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[oldcpu]

19 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

DTA's do not mention " Assessable Income " The reason for that is simple.

 

" Assessable Income " is a term specific to Thai Domestic Tax Policy / Law. A DTA is an International Agreement, totally separate from Thai Domestic Tax Law / Policy.

 

I also understand what has been happening for the past 15 years  and how many would come to that view. What happened in the past ( Where nobody cared less ) is not an indication of how things will continue in the future.

 

The 2 must be seen as seperate entities.

 

* An International agreement

 

* Thai Domestic Tax Policy / Law, which now applies to anyone who spends 180 days or more in Thailand in a tax year.

 

 

Agree in part.  DTAs do not state Assessable income. That terminology, as you note , are specific to the Thai domestic policy.

 

However there are clear cases in Thai tax law where income noted as exempt income, is also noted as exempt from the income tax calculation.  If that exempt income is not to be included in the Thai tax calculation, that also means it does not go on the income tax form (where the calculation is done) , and that hence by deduction means it is not considered assessable income for a Thai tax calculation.

 

So as I stated, that goes back to the noted Royal Decree.  The Royal Decree very clearly notes some DTAs make some foreign income exempt from Thailand tax, ... so - the question then is:  Does that also mean exempt from the Thailand tax calculation like other exempt income listed under Thailand domestic tax law?

 

I think that is THE key question , and as I stated, the view of some is per that Royal Decree which references DTAs (in general) and per some DTAs, mean that some specific income is not to be considered assessable income in Thailand. 

 

Examples I have in mind are for any DTA that will clearly state a certain type of income is only to be taxed in the country which is NOT Thailand.  Such income is not taxable in Thailand, it is exempt per Thailand Royal Decree, and per related (but not identical) examples under Thai tax law, that suggests exempt income is not to be included in the Thai tax calculation.

 

Clearly every foreigner needs to make their own judgement call here dependent on their own financial situation, and dependent on the precise source of their income.

.

[NoDisplayName]

On 5/18/2025 at 12:04 PM, JackGats said:

By the way, does somebody know whether you can claim a refund of overpaid dividends if you are not a tax resident of Thailand, ie if you staid less than 180 days?

 

Yes, you can!  You can also file late for additional refunds.

 

We were trapped in China during the covids, returned August 2022.

2021 = 0 days, 2022 = 150 days.

 

Last year, I filed 2023 late (200 baht fee), also filed 2021 and 2022 late (no late fees).

 

Dividend and bank interest withholding all refunded.

[NoDisplayName]

4 hours ago, JackGats said:

TRD painstaikingly checked my bank account savings book to see if every dividend paid matched the amount credited to my account.

 

Lemme guess................Jomtien?

 

I recall previous posts of enthusiastic taxpayers being met by a sign requiring bank books and statements.  Pretty sure that was Jomtien.

[NoDisplayName]

37 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

Yes ... but as likely you note Royal Decree No. 18 B.E. 2505 (1962) which notes per specifics in some Double Tax Agreements (DTA), some types of foreign income for some countries can be tax exempt in Thailand. 

 

The view of many is that means exempt from the Thailand tax calculation, and hence is not to be considered assessable income.  Obviously this depends on the wording of he DTA.

 

 

 

No feeding!

 

The scent of fresh assessables will bring out He-who-must-not-have-filed!

[oldcpu]

1 minute ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

No feeding!

 

The scent of fresh assessables will bring out He-who-must-not-have-filed!

 

lol. 

 

At the risk of feeding, I note when the 2024 tax forms finally did come out, there was no obvious place (that I could find) for listing tax exempt income (as deductions) such as those exempt from DTAs or exempt from the LTR-WP visa.   I have a fuzzy recollection some were very patiently waiting to see such to prove their point.

 

But speaking of points - you do make a very good one re "no feeding".

 

It is thou -  a 2 way feeding (or no-feeding) street.

.

[The Cyclist]

14 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

Agree in part.  DTAs do not state Assessable income. That terminology, as you note , are specific to the Thai domestic policy.

 

And Thai Domestic Policy / Law applies to all foreigners that stay more than 180 days in a tax year.

 

That you have " Exempt income / only taxable in XX Country " by dint of a DTA / Specific Visa / other is separate from Domestic Tax Policy Law.

 

The RD will work on the legalities of what is written in the tax code, what is written in DtA's / Visas / others is secondary. If, I repeat if, they come knocking at your door.

[JackGats]

3 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Lemme guess................Jomtien?

 

I recall previous posts of enthusiastic taxpayers being met by a sign requiring bank books and statements.  Pretty sure that was Jomtien.

Yes it was

[TheAppletons]

4 hours ago, oldcpu said:

Agree in part.  DTAs do not state Assessable income. That terminology, as you note , are specific to the Thai domestic policy.

 

  Why do you even respond to the Tax Armageddon Goofball©?

[oldcpu]

4 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

And Thai Domestic Policy / Law applies to all foreigners that stay more than 180 days in a tax year.

 

That you have " Exempt income / only taxable in XX Country " by dint of a DTA / Specific Visa / other is separate from Domestic Tax Policy Law.

 

Yes, and the law refers to 'assessable' income that is earned in Thailand and 'assessable' income that is remitted to Thailand. 

 

Assessable.  OK? 

 

As noted, foreign remitted income can be tax exempt per Thai Royal Decree 18 (which refers to DTAs which in many cases can note foreign income that is tax exempt in Thailand).  Further being tax exempt can mean not to be included in the Thai tax calculation (consistent with Thai tax law), and hence in effect remitted foreign income that is not assessable.

 

The Royal Decree I pointed out is very relevant here. But strangely enough, you forgot about that, since you failed to list such.  I wonder why?

 

4 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

The RD will work on the legalities of what is written in the tax code, what is written in DtA's / Visas / others is secondary. If, I repeat if, they come knocking at your door.

 

If they come knocking at my door?  Do NOT hold your breath waiting.

 

Since they denied me a tax-ID when I applied, ... maybe they will change their mind and provide me one now?   Don't hold your breath waiting for that either.

 

We have been through this detail before ...  I did not earn any income in Thailand and I did not remit any money to Thailand and I have an LTR-WP visa.  Further the money I would remit to Thailand (but did not remit) is exempt Thai income tax according to both the Thai-Canada DTA, and the Thai-German DTA.  I remitted a LOT of money to Thailand when I was a non-tax resident (in Thailand for less than 180-days).

 

Ahh ... but you say "if they come knocking".  ??  Guess what?  Don't hold your breath on that.

 

Having typed the above, likely within the next few years I will remit some of my foreign money which is Thai tax exempt  to Thailand per DTAs (and per the LTR-WP). Having typed that, if the laws stay the same as they are today, I will not be filing a Thai tax return (unless I start earning too much Thailand bank interest or other Thai income). To file such a return would be a waste of both the Thai RD time and a waste of my time.

 

Now i am not avoiding tax.  I do pay tax to a country outside of Thailand, where the DTAs with Thailand are relevant.

 

Unlike yourself ??? I suspect you will find some Thai tax authorities DO pay attention to the content of relevant Royal Decrees that provide exemption to taxation for some foreign remitted income.  Which as I note possibly exempts such from the Thai tax calculation (consistent with other tax exemption cases noted in Thai tax law), which by deduction indicates such exempt foreign income that is NOT to be treated as assessable income, and hence not treated in assessing if a Thai tax return is required. ( .. unfortunately some is not all - more on that further down ... )

 

Which point of the above do you not agree with?  My own view is possibly the area where one needs to focus (and maybe where your disagreement exists) in my logic above, is whether legally tax exempt remitted foreign income is also exempt from the tax calculation? That is an assumption where verification is IMHO ultimate useful to obtain.

 

ALSO IMPORTANT :   and I mentioned  this MANY times in the past. There is NO PLACE in the Thai tax forms to list any such income as a deduction, even thou it is tax exempt.  Before some where saying... just wait ... just wait ... it will be in the 2024 Thai tax return form.  Guess what.  The 2024 tax return is out.  And guess what?  It was not in such. Why ?  Maybe 2025 tax form?  Maybe 2026 tax form?  Don't hold your breath waiting there either.  

 

I think it should be clear now, based on the deliberate RD omissions in the 2024 TAX RETURNS (and omissions in previous year) , and based on the Royal Decrees (in particular RD.18 which notes some DTAs provide exemption from tax), that there can be foreign remitted income earned in the current year that is not to be considered assessble income to Thailand and NOT to be included in the tax return.

 

Frankly, if one ignores such, files a tax return, incorrectly lists their exempt income as assessable, one will find no proper place in the tax forms, and could end up inappropriately paying tax.  Why?  Because not all Thai RD know the details of RD.18 and RD.743,  and details of many various DTAs. I suspect most branch RDs know none of such.

 

So one is then inappropriately taxed , and then one is into appeal territory.  Good luck and don't hold your breath hoping to succeed in an appeal.

. 

 

[oldcpu]

4 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

 

  Why do you even respond to the Tax Armageddon Goofball©?

 

He is IMHO spreading disinformation by denying that some remitted foreign income is not to be considered assessable income.  If one's remitted foreign income is not tax assessable, it may mean for some there may be no need to file a Thai tax return and (if one still has to file due to some Thai income)  there may be no need to list such non-assessable foreign income on a Thai tax return.

 

If many listen to him, I fear we will read of more people, whose remitted foreign income is LEGALLY not to be considered assessable income in Thailand, still file a Thai tax returns when they should not. Why is that bad?  Because they may be inappropriately taxed because the various Thai RD branches are not up to speed on Royal Decrees nor on DTAs.  And those who inappropriately filed a tax return  will have a difficult time in the appeal process. 

 

It is important for expats to look at their own financial situation, their income source, Thai law (including some specific Royal Decrees and some RD ministerial directives) and make their own best judgement call whether they need to file an tax return and whether any remitted foreign income they may have is to be considered assessable for Thai taxation purposes.