Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

NoDisplayName · January 28

11 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

As examples.

You want examples?

I have 2016, 2017, 2018 filings in Bangkok, none listing non-assessable remittances, all approved and refunded.

I have 2021, 2022, and 2023 online filings from eight months ago, none listing non-assessable remittances, all approved and refunded.

I have my 2024 tax return filed online three weeks ago, not listing non-assessable remittances, approved, with refund pending upload of bank withholding statement.

YOU have an incorrect, penciled-in "draft" of a tax form from an uninformed underling in a backwater tax office, that you won't be able to file online, as the system will reject it as defective.

Much like your arguments here have been rejected as defective.

Come back after you've successfully filed a tax return, declared your exempt/non-taxable/non-assessable remittances, deducted your exempt/non-taxable/non-assessable remittances in the non-existent space, claimed your foreign tax credit in the non-existent space,

Or you can continue to cherry-pick and quote-mine YouTube videos you think support your crusade, and wait for those new English forms to emerge from the quantum realm 12 parsecs before completing the Kessel Run.

Good lucky.

The Cyclist · January 28

8 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

You want examples?

I have 2016, 2017, 2018 filings in Bangkok, none listing non-assessable remittances, all approved and refunded.

I have 2021, 2022, and 2023 online filings from eight months ago, none listing non-assessable remittances, all approved and refunded.

Thats brilliant, absolutely stupendous.

But for the brain dead who walk amongst us, that is all prior to 01 Jan 2024.

It means absolutely nothing.

Head of the RD Legal Department.

Thai Tax Resident - Check.

Remit income after 01 Jan 2024 - Check.

Then it is assessable income.

* Assessable does not equate to being taxable ( For multiple reasons )

Go argue with the head of the RD Legal Department.

NoDisplayName · January 28

2 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

But for the brain dead who walk amongst us, that is all prior to 01 Jan 2024.

Reading comprehension.

12 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

I have 2021, 2022, and 2023 online filings from eight months ago,

Eight months ago was July 2024.

13 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

I have my 2024 tax return filed online three weeks ago

Last time I checked, 2025 was not

5 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

prior to 01 Jan 2024.

Maybe try reading posts before replying. Similar concept to watching entire videos before posting a quote-mined cherry you've picked.

7 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Go argue with the head of the RD Legal Department.

As soon as you file your return.

oldcpu · January 28

57 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

I will let Mr Hart explain it to

Assessability does not mean liability

I don't know why you use that as a reference. It fails to support your view in the detailed "assessability" aspect we are discussion.

As Mr.Hart states, it depends on the underlying fundamentals. I fully agree with that. I am beginning to think you do not.

I pointed out the fundamentals to you re: Tax Code, Royal Decree-18 (and appropriate DTA words), and Royal Decree-743.

Are you just picking out videos of the thin air hoping it supports your untenable position? Because that what it looks like.

57 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Now go and watch the 1st 10 minutes of the latest video.

Further I pointed out to you in the latest video where the RD representative stated in Thai language that there are exemptions to assessable income (where that very important tidbit was NOT translated by the translator).

You need to do better if you wish to point to videos that do not support what i noted. Instead those videos support what I posted.

57 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

But mentalists think they know better than the Head of the RD Legal Department.

When you resort to such statements ? It means you lost the argument. OK?

57 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

And while I'm here, Does any of the Section 42 ( Exempt income ) apply to you ?

Yes - in that tax section it notes 'exempt income' is 'exempt for taxation calculation purposes'. OK? Important words.

57 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

29 different types, any that you could manage to shoehorn onto a tax filing.

Exemption is not limited to those 29-types. Do you disagree with Royal Decrees? Do you disagree with Ministerial instructions? If you disagree with those documents, then you should take such up with the Thai Revenue department.

Have you forgotten ?? - < sigh > once again, the references I have been posting to you, over and over, are:

Royal Decree-18 (labeling non-taxable income as Exempt despite your ignoring such), and relevant sections in some DTAs (those that note income source country can exclusively (or only) tax a pension , and

Royal Decree-743 (labeling selected LTR visa holders income as tax exempt), and

2017 to 2024 Thai tax forms - I pointed out tax forms (both English language and Thai language) going back to year 2017 (I did not know where to find those prior to year 2017 to check) have no place for exempt DTA income to be listed as an exemption. OK ? Why do you think? Well I will tell you. Because if exempt in the noted above cases, it is not to be considered as assessable. And if it is not to be considered assessable it doesn't belong in the calculation for whether a tax return is required.

57 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Just another example of why I think your understanding of exempt income is wrong.

Well - as I stated before... best wishes to you in placing your not-assessable income on a 2024 tax submission (using perhaps a 2023 form if 2024 not available), where there will be no place to deduct such income in an exemption section.

I think many of us are curious as to how that will work out for you.

i do urge others thou, do not follow Cyclists approach. If his paranoia has you worried, then I provided above in an earlier approach a suggestion to go to your local Thai RD, bring Thai language copies of your relevant DTA (with relevant income section highlighted) and bring copy (Thal language) of Royal Decree-18. There are 61 different DTAs with Thailand. Don't force your local RD to dig though them while you have no clue as to what they are looking at (unless you are a fluent Thai speaker/reader). Rather go prepared with relevant section highlighted in advance.

Good luck in your efforts.

The Cyclist · January 28

3 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Reading comprehension.

Not in the slightest.

All prior to 01 Jan 2024, as I stated.

Head of the Legal Department.

Thai Tax Resident - Check

Remit income from 01 Jan 2024 - Check

Then that income is assessable income - Check

2024 tax filing season does not end until 31 March 2025 - Check.

oldcpu · January 28

Just now, The Cyclist said:

Not in the slightest.

All prior to 01 Jan 2024, as I stated.

Head of the Legal Department.

Thai Tax Resident - Check

Remit income from 01 Jan 2024 - Check

Then that income is assessable income - Check

2024 tax filing season does not end until 31 March 2025 - Check.

Royal decrees? using words 'exempt' - nope - you ignore such

DTA as referenced by Royal decree? nope - you ignore such

The Cyclist · January 28

3 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

Do you disagree with Royal Decrees?

I disagree with your thinking that a Royal Decree exempts you from filing a tax return, as a Tax Resident of Thailand.

I do agree that it will exempt you from paying tax in Thailand.

So you can bang on about Royal Decrees to your hearts content.

You seem to have a difficulty in understanding that if Thailand wants Foreign Tax Residents to file a tax return, that is what will happen.

That does not mean that those foreign tax residents are going to have to pay thai tax.

And that, in essence, is where we disagree.

And I think I will listen to the head of the RD legal department ( Yesterday ) than some anonymous poster on the internet.

Sure, some foreigners will not need to file a tax return

* Less than 179:days

* Remit no income in 2024

* Remit less than the filing thresholds in 2024

Immediately spring to mind.

oldcpu · January 28

25 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

But for the brain dead who walk amongst us, that is all prior to 01 Jan 2024.

It means absolutely nothing.

Thats wrong. I am surprised you typed that.

Foreign remitted income (covered by DTAs) has always been potentially subject to taxation if remitted in the year of earning, long before por.161/162. Yet there has never been a place to include remitted foreign income (not taxable due to a DTA) as an exemption on a Thai tax form.

This all pre-dates 1-Jan-2024.

I recommend you take a step back and think a bit more about you incorrectly typed.

The Cyclist · January 28

10 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

Thats wrong. I am surprised you typed that.

Foreign remitted income (covered by DTAs) has always been potentially subject to taxation if remitted in the year of earning, long before por.161/162. Yet there has never been a place to include remitted foreign income (not taxable due to a DTA) as an exemption on a Thai tax form.

This all pre-dates 1-Jan-2024.

I recommend you take a step back and think a bit more about you incorrectly typed.

Utterly bizarre comment, as well as very stupid.

Thread after thread, including this one, people will tell you that income specified as being under exclusive taxing rights was not assessable income.

The past 15 years, nobody gave a monkeys, nobody chased anything up and nobody cared.

That changed with

* Royal Decree of 31 March 2023.

* The push on Tax residency

* 01 Jan 2024.being the day that it all changed.

oldcpu · January 28

4 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

I disagree with your thinking that a Royal Decree exempts you from filing a tax return, as a Tax Resident of Thailand.

I do agree that it will exempt you from paying tax in Thailand.

Thats the crux of the different views.

Note again - exempt income (as identified via Royal Decree-18) has not been in an exemption list on a Thai tax form going back to 2017 that i could check, and likely going back LONGER than that. Most likely going back to when Royal Decree-18 issued.

Over and over again, you refuse to accept that.

Have you even taken the time to look at those tax forms to confirm what I stated?

4 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

So you can bang on about Royal Decrees to your hearts content.

You should take that up with the Thai Revenue department then, that you wish to ignore Royal Decrees. Let me know what they say back to you.

4 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

You seem to have a difficulty in understanding that if Thailand wants Foreign Tax Residents to file a tax return, that is what will happen.

I understand that perfectly. If assessable income meets the threashold of a Thai tax resident (including foreigners) then an income tax return is required.

You are simply fabricating views of others because you have lost the discussion.

4 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

That does not mean that those foreign tax residents are going to have to pay thai tax.

And that, in essence, is where we disagree.

No - we disagree further. You fabricate aspects of my view (I just gave you an example above). We disagree there.

You post irrelevant videos as to the assessblity definition discussion , and you claim such substantiates your view.They don't.

You ignore 2017 to 2023 tax return forms (which have no entry place for exempt foreign remitted income to be recorded as exempt) because you think ?? I don't know what you think there. Do you think the RD made a mistake in the past in those forms?

Despite Thai language tax forms nominally being close to English language, and despite the 2024 (and 2025, I might add) Thai language tax forms having no entry locations for exempt foreign income to be listed as exempt, you still cling to a belief that the year 2024 tax form will have such.

We have a number of disagreements in the details.

oldcpu · January 28

4 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Thread after thread, including this one, people will tell you that income specified as being under exclusive taxing rights was not assessable income.

So far , the "people" is only you.

4 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

The past 15 years, nobody gave a monkeys, nobody chased anything up and nobody cared.

So you think the Thai RD made a mistake there?

Wow.

You disagree with the Thai RD approach of the past? Ok? Is that really the case?

if so - well I rest my case. You can go argue with the Thai RD on that.

The Cyclist · January 28

2 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

Thats the crux of the different views.

Indeed it is.

It does not matter a jot what is on previous tax forms prior to tax year 2024.

These changes only apply from 01 Jan 2024

oldcpu · January 28

Just now, The Cyclist said:

Indeed it is.

It does not matter a jot what is on previous tax forms prior to tax year 2024.

These changes only apply from 01 Jan 2024

I don't think you read and fully understand what was in por.161.162, based on that comment.

Serious. You need to reread those and think about what you typed.

The Cyclist · January 28

2 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

So far , the "people" is only you.

Really

How about all the Americans and their US SS ?

How about you and your Canadian Pensions ?

I have said my UK Government pension, the UK has exclusive taxation rights.

I have also said, that does not exempt me from filing a tax return, as a Thai Tax Resident.

This is the part that seems to confuse you.

The Cyclist · January 28

2 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

I don't think you read and fully understand what was in por.161.162, based on that comment.

Explain it to me.

What is it that I do not understand ?

oldcpu · January 28

9 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Really

How about all the Americans and their US SS ?

Did you forget what you typed? Let me remind you:

Quote

Thread after thread, including this one, people will tell you that income specified as being under exclusive taxing rights was not assessable income.

So who are these people who are going to tell me that income specified as being under exclusive taxing rights was not assessable income?

No one on this forum other than you seems to be arguing that.

I pointed out an RD official noted exempt income is not included in assessable. When you claimed DTAs don't mention exempt income I pointed out RD-18 stated such was exempt.

Anyway - when you FINALLY get around to putting your non-assesable UK income (where you claim it is not taxable in Thailand due to DTA) on a Thai tax form for year 2024 tax year, let us know where it was exempted in the tax form.

I suspect you have many curious.

oldcpu · January 28

9 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Explain it to me.

What is it that I do not understand ?

Did you re-read the documents? if you did ... then you should understand.

The Cyclist · January 28

Just now, oldcpu said:

Did you re-read the documents? if you did ... then you should understand.

I am asking you ro explain to me, what you think I do not understand.

I believe I understand POR 161 / 162 very well, I do not think you do, which is why I am asking you to point out my misunderstanding.

I have a feeling that you just might be struggling.

oldcpu · January 28

Just now, The Cyclist said:

I am asking you ro explain to me, what you think I do not understand.

I believe I understand POR 161 / 162 very well, I do not think you do, which is why I am asking you to point out my misunderstanding.

If you understood por.161/162 you would not have typed:

Quote

It does not matter a jot what is on previous tax forms prior to tax year 2024.

Tax forms cover a lot , and you just claimed it doesn't matter a jot as to what is on the past ones.

incredible. Trying stating EXACTLY that to an RD official and see what their response is.

anrcaccount · January 28

22 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

The past 15 years, nobody gave a monkeys, nobody chased anything up and nobody cared.

That changed with

* Royal Decree of 31 March 2023.

* The push on Tax residency

* 01 Jan 2024.being the day that it all changed.

Your arguments completely fail a simple logic test.

If you needed to declare all your remittances, and then prove what wasn't exempt, that would have been the case last year, and the 10 years before that.

The POR/PAW internal revenue department directive is the only change.

There is no change to "The push on Tax residency". There are no reports of any change in TRD operational or enforcement policies.

The Cyclist · January 28

1 minute ago, anrcaccount said:

Your arguments completely fail a simple logic test.

If you needed to declare all your remittances, and then prove what wasn't exempt, that would have been the case last year, and the 10 years before that.

The POR/PAW internal revenue department directive is the only change.

What does POR 161 / 162 say ?

And why is 01 Jan 2024 stated on them ?

Because what happened in the past ( or did not happen ) makes no difference. The important date, as printed in both POR's is 01 Jan 2024.

SHA 2 BKK · January 28

21 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Really

How about all the Americans and their US SS ?

How about you and your Canadian Pensions ?

I have said my UK Government pension, the UK has exclusive taxation rights.

I have also said, that does not exempt me from filing a tax return, as a Thai Tax Resident.

This is the part that seems to confuse you.

But in the video you posted yesterday just after the 30 minute mark if my memory serves me correct the chap from the Revenue Department said if you have no assessable income (Carl Turner paraphrased that after) no need to get a TIN and no need lodge a return. Your video. The one you posted. I repeat that. Your video no assessable income remitted no TIN and no need to lodge a return. From the horses mouth.

So if your only income remitted in 2024 is your UK Government Pension which is, as you describe above, and you are sure it is exclusively taxed in the UK via the DTA then obviously it’s not to be assessed in Thailand.

That’s what is explained the the video YOU posted yesterday by the representative from the Thai Revenue Department.

Maybe you will invoke that “it’s against the spirit of the game” just to get your DTA UK pension somehow included in the Thai Tax system even though there is no spot in the tax forms to put it!!

oldcpu · January 28

21 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

What does POR 161 / 162 say ?

And why is 01 Jan 2024 stated on them ?

Because what happened in the past ( or did not happen ) makes no difference. The important date, as printed in both POR's is 01 Jan 2024.

Let me try to explain to you.

In the past any foreign income remitted to Thailand, was clearly taxable in Thailand if the income was remitted in the year of earning. OK ? Further, in some cases, remitted income to Thailand was not taxable due to DTAs. OK? Have I lost you? Now the practice of many people was to NOT remit income into Thailand in the year in which it earned, but wait a year (keep as savings for one year) and only then bring into Thailand. That way a case could be made that the income was not taxable.

Por.161/162 closed that loop hole. It is written to ensure that any income earned AFTER 1-Jan-2024 is potentially taxable, no matter when it is brought into Thailand.

But that did not under any circumstances change the enforceable FACT (by Thai RD) that if one brought income into Thailand (before 1-Jan-2024), where the income was brought into Thailand in the year in which it was earned, that said income needed to be considered if assessable and hence put on a Thai tax form if assessable. That has NOT CHANGED. Current year income (as assessed at that time) remitted into Thailand in the year of earning, was in the past and actually still is, potentially taxable by Thailand. NOTHING has changed there.

So in the past, (say year 2021 tax year for example) if one brought foreign pension into Thailand (that was not taxable by Thailand due to a DTA ,ie it was exempt for the Thai tax calculation) and if one mistakenly tried to place such income on their tax return form (for year 2021 for example) there was no place for such tax exempt income in an exemption field on the year 2021 Thai tax form.

Ok? That was true in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023 and 2024 (Thai language form thus far).

So that begs the question, given such was potentially taxable (as brought into Thailand in the year of earning) why was there no place in those tax year tax forms. Again , the same is true today (look at year 2024 Thai language tax form). Why is this? It is because such foreign exempt remitted income is not to be treated as assessable income.

And if not treated as assessable income, it does not factor into the calculation if an income tax return is required. OK?

Por. 161/162 did not change that. OK ? It did not. Rather it expanded on what was already in place !

So your stating "It does not matter a jot what is on previous tax forms prior to tax year 2024. " is simply wrong in an area where nothing has changed.

Are you really trying to find the truth here (to help you with properly addressing your tax obligations) or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?

The Cyclist · January 28

4 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

If you understood por.161/162 you would not have typed:

Quote

It does not matter a jot what is on previous tax forms prior to tax year 2024.

Yes, I would. The important date is written in 161 / 162 and that important date is 01 Jan 2024.

So to take your education a step further POR 161 says

Quote

No. 161/2566 was issued to provide interpretation of Section 41 Paragraph 2 that any foreign-sourced income brought into Thailand from 1 January 2024 onwards will be subject to Thai personal income tax, regardless of the tax year in which the income was derived.

Any foreign sourced in brought in from 01 Jan 2024 onwards would be subject to Thai personal Income Tax

Por 162 says

Quote

162/2566 was issued to clarify that the interpretation provided in Clause 1 of DI No. 161/2566 should not apply to foreign-sourced income derived before 1 January 2024.

So savings prior to 01 Jan 2024 would not be subject to Thai personal income tax

Everything else, earned from 01 Jan 2024, remitted in 2024, would be subject to Thai personal income tax.

And that is where your bank statements, DTA's, Tax Credits, fancy Visa's come into play

The Cyclist · January 28

1 minute ago, oldcpu said:

Let me try to explain to you.

In the past any foreign income remitted to Thailand, was clearly taxable in Thailand if the income was remitted in the year of earning. OK ?

Let me explain something to you

The past is gone. 01 Jan is ground zero day, when everything changed.

SHA 2 BKK · January 28

1 minute ago, The Cyclist said:

Yes, I would. The important date is written in 161 / 162 and that important date is 01 Jan 2024.

So to take your education a step further POR 161 says

Any foreign sourced in brought in from 01 Jan 2024 onwards would be subject to Thai personal Income Tax

Por 162 says

So savings prior to 01 Jan 2024 would not be subject to Thai personal income tax

Everything else, earned from 01 Jan 2024, remitted in 2024, would be subject to Thai personal income tax.

And that is where your bank statements, DTA's, Tax Credits, fancy Visa's come into play

And which part of the Thai Tax return does one list the "DTA's, Tax Credits and fancy Visa's" pray tell?

The Cyclist · January 28

5 minutes ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

So if your only income remitted in 2024 is your UK Government Pension which is, as you describe above, and you are sure it is exclusively taxed in the UK via the DTA then obviously it’s not to be assessed in Thailand.

POR 162 says differently.

The head of the RD Legal Team says differently.

All income earned after 01 jan 2024 and remitted in 2024, is assessable income.

The Cyclist · January 28

3 minutes ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

And which part of the Thai Tax return does one list the "DTA's, Tax Credits and fancy Visa's" pray tell?

And there we go, the where does it go on the tax form strawman makes an appearance.

Perhaps on the form that has not been updated / uploaded yet.

As I have said previously, I would not be surprised if PND 91 / 92 do not get updated and a whole new form covering overseas income, taxes paid, DTA's is forthcoming.

Something similar to a UK SA 106.

oldcpu · January 28

5 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

POR 162 says differently.

The head of the RD Legal Team says differently.

No. he doesn't. Neither does POR-162. Did you read por-162?

SHA 2 BKK · January 28

3 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

POR 162 says differently.

The head of the RD Legal Team says differently.

All income earned after 01 jan 2024 and remitted in 2024, is assessable income.

That's not true and even says so in the video YOU posted yesterday - hell even the RD says if you buy and sell a watch in 2024 overseas and remit funds it's not taxable. As Bob Hawke said - you can't legislate for "Stupid".

Sign In

Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

Recommended Posts

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

MikeandDow

sungod

Upnotover

Posted Images

Create an account or sign in to comment

Create an account

Sign in

Recently Browsing 0 members

Topics

Popular Contributors

Latest posts...

Popular in The Pub

ASEANNOW

MORE INFO

POPULAR AREAS

CONTACT US