Tax files

[newbee2022]

4 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

I refer you to my post last week about "My experience obtaining my tax refund".  In that post I mentioned that the manager of my district revenue office considered my state pension (Australian Aged pension) to be a social security payment, and therefore not assessable. She obtained confirmation from CM Revenue Office that govt/state pensions are not assessable and as such there was no need to declare them. I also mentioned in replies to comments that individuals should seek advice from their respective TRD as like most things in Thailand interpretations can & will differ from office to office and between officers within the same office.

As you read I made the same experience. But it's CM and might be different in other areas

[PomPolo]

7 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

"And I haven't been called a 'grown up' for a while"

 

Well, every day a new surprise in the Land of Smile🤗.

No social security

No free health care

No "income support" (what is that?)

Not allowed to buy a house (of course you can)

 

Then, why you are here? UK seems to be a Paradise, isn't it? 😳

 

Do you work for the revenue department or a tax advisor looking for business? 😁
I can buy a house and own it where at?  I could buy a house but I would have to build it floating in the air as I couldn't own the land it was built on.

[newbee2022]

29 minutes ago, PomPolo said:

Do you work for the revenue department or a tax advisor looking for business? 😁
I can buy a house and own it where at?  I could buy a house but I would have to build it floating in the air as I couldn't own the land it was built on.

Well, I read your wise words...🤗, however you didn't answer why you're not in described Paradise??

[oldcpu]

1 hour ago, PomPolo said:

Do you work for the revenue department or a tax advisor looking for business? 😁
I can buy a house and own it where at?  I could buy a house but I would have to build it floating in the air as I couldn't own the land it was built on.

 

A counter-point may be that Thailand, if it were to adopt policy of other countries, allowing foreigners to buy land, would drive the price so high that local Thai people could not afford.  So this restriction was put in place.  Take a look at prices in London UK, and then research the views as to what was a big contributing factor in driving up the prices such that locals can hardly (or not at all) afford such.

 

There is a European country (Spain ? Portugal ? ) where recently the press suggests has now something like a 100% tax on property price (?) for any foreigner wishing to buy. 

 

So all is not equal globally for expatriates in comparison to citizens of a country.

 

This is one of the global downsides of being an expatriate.  One can not expect equality with the citizenry in all aspects.  Like it or not as a non-citizen, when comparing oneself to the locals, citizenship does bring privileges.

[Presnock]

This AM got a note from expattaxthailand with an interview of a TRD lawyer and official about this year's filing of 2024 taxes.

  the officials advised anyone with questions about the taxes to check out the TRD webbsite at www.rd.go.th/English for non-Thai speakers, but also gave some ino on the tax filing.  As we all know it is Self Assessable income - if no assessble income then one does NOT have to get a TAX ID nor file the tax forms.  Since DTA's either exempt pensions or provide tax credits, exempted in my opinion means non-assessable income for US civil service pension as well as pre-2024 savings then an expat then does NOT need to get a tax id nor file.  They indicate this anyway if one wants to hear it themselves. They also said that expats need to keep documentation supporting that income if is considered non-assessable.  Strict penalties for "fake" documents. Anyway, I checked the interview see the link or contact Carl at expattaxthailand and you should be able to get the interview there.   They mentioned that the TRD site can also allow one to ask questions.

                                         https://youtube.com/watch?v=mGvznkNy398

[nikom56]

17 hours ago, oliverphoenix2 said:

In the box at the bottom of page 2 it says "In the case of a country with a double tax treaty. There is no need to present a tax return in Thailand. Except in cases where it is necessary to show it to the agency that needs it only."   Surely that flat out means that you do not need to file a tax return if your home country has a dta unless the RD specifically asks for one e.g. they audit you (even though you never filed a return for them to audit!).

Am I missing something here? Most of the people here in the forum or in other forums discussing how to file their tax returns even though they come from countries that have a double taxation agreement with Thailand, have they all been written to and asked to file their taxes?

[Presnock]

12 minutes ago, nikom56 said:

Am I missing something here? Most of the people here in the forum or in other forums discussing how to file their tax returns even though they come from countries that have a double taxation agreement with Thailand, have they all been written to and asked to file their taxes?

I opine that it depends on the wording within the DTA of your country as they discussed they would look at the amount of a pension and would determine there needed to be a tax or a refund in the interview and if taxed already in your country, then a tax credit can be issued.  I am not familiar with taxing here whatsoever except in my own particular financial position and the DTA with the US.  I listened to the Thai also, and as usual, 100 words to express a situation needing maybe 20 words.  They also discussed failure to file when necessary and the problems that could cause - needing a tax-free pass to leave, visa extensions or re-entering the country later after not filing.  The two TRD folks in the interview spoke in Thai, then a Thai advisor to expattax "translated". 

[newbee2022]

19 minutes ago, nikom56 said:

Am I missing something here? Most of the people here in the forum or in other forums discussing how to file their tax returns even though they come from countries that have a double taxation agreement with Thailand, have they all been written to and asked to file their taxes?

The DTA prevents to pay too much taxes. 

So if you pay here too much you can apply for tax return

[Presnock]

20 minutes ago, nikom56 said:

Am I missing something here? Most of the people here in the forum or in other forums discussing how to file their tax returns even though they come from countries that have a double taxation agreement with Thailand, have they all been written to and asked to file their taxes?

 

20 minutes ago, nikom56 said:

Am I missing something here? Most of the people here in the forum or in other forums discussing how to file their tax returns even though they come from countries that have a double taxation agreement with Thailand, have they all been written to and asked to file their taxes?

Seems like some people when they go to a local TRD office and ask about their situatioon are told they do not need to file nor get a tax number but I am leery about the info going to from the main TRD office to all the remote local offices.

[TheAppletons]

26 minutes ago, nikom56 said:

Am I missing something here? Most of the people here in the forum or in other forums discussing how to file their tax returns even though they come from countries that have a double taxation agreement with Thailand, have they all been written to and asked to file their taxes?

 

  No.  There is a large swath of AN members who can't wait to file tax returns, even though they probably aren't required.

 

  Chalk it up to fear, illiteracy, and a guerilla marketing scheme by for hire expat tax advisors.

[newbee2022]

3 minutes ago, Presnock said:

 

Seems like some people when they go to a local TRD office and ask about their situatioon are told they do not need to file nor get a tax number but I am leery about the info going to from the main TRD office to all the remote local offices.

You are free to visit your Tax office and ask all questions. They are happy to answer🤗

[alanrchase]

Think you have the wrong forms there, form 91 states it is for income from employment. If you are declaring money remitted from abroad I thing form 90 is the one you need.

[newbee2022]

4 minutes ago, alanrchase said:

Think you have the wrong forms there, form 91 states it is for income from employment. If you are declaring money remitted from abroad I thing form 90 is the one you need.

Depends

[UWEB]

6 hours ago, NORDO said:

More than 180 days present in Thailand in the year2024.

 

would this be the total of days on TV visa and Non O visa,

 

or

 

just the total of days present in Thailand on Non O visa?

Doesn't matter if on Visa or Visa Exempt Entry, as long you are stay a total of 180 days plus in Thailand in a Calender Year you are Tax Resident.

[Dmaxdan]

14 hours ago, OJAS said:

 

She's clearly not up to speed on what one of her big bosses in Bangkok has been saying recently, then, is she?

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1347864-revenue-department-boss-calls-on-tax-residents-in-thailand-to-file-2024-returns-by-march-31

 

 

 

 

 

The original Thai article that the Thai Examiner's article and subsequently that ASEAN Now thread were based upon doesn't even mention foreigners or remitted income at all.

All the big boss said was to remind "Thai" tax payers, particularly young entrepreneurs to file their returns by 31st of March.

The Thai Examiner twisted the RD's Boss's words around the suit their own purposes. Scaremongering basically...

[digger70]

On 1/20/2025 at 7:36 PM, Will B Good said:

 

 

Any mention of government pensions?

Yes, a state pension is a government pension. It's a regular payment made by the government to people who have reached State Pension age. The amount you receive is based on your National Insurance contributions. 

[Will B Good]

4 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Yes, a state pension is a government pension. It's a regular payment made by the government to people who have reached State Pension age. The amount you receive is based on your National Insurance contributions. 

 

Don't think you are correct.

 

A government pension is paid to Servants of the Crown only.

 

State pension is paid to anyone who qualifies through NICs.

 

Key Differences

1. Eligibility:

• State Pension: Based on individual National Insurance contributions.

• Government Pension: Available to employees of specific government or public sector roles.

[digger70]

1 minute ago, Will B Good said:

 

Don't think you are correct.

 

A government pension is paid to Servants of the Crown only.

 

State pension is paid to anyone who qualifies through NICs.

I get paid a Government pension in AUS same as all Age pensioners.

That's got Nothing to do with the Crown. 

[alanrchase]

56 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

Depends

Form 91 is for declaring income from working in Thailand, you mentioned pensions. How does your statement "depends" help anyone?

[newbee2022]

1 minute ago, alanrchase said:

Form 91 is for declaring income from working in Thailand, you mentioned pensions. How does your statement "depends" help anyone?

91 is for income by employment

[newbee2022]

8 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

Don't think you are correct.

 

A government pension is paid to Servants of the Crown only.

 

State pension is paid to anyone who qualifies through NICs.

 

Key Differences

1. Eligibility:

• State Pension: Based on individual National Insurance contributions.

• Government Pension: Available to employees of specific government or public sector roles.

There are more countries without any "Crown". A state pension is guaranteed by the state, in opposition to a pension created by private investment

[Will B Good]

5 minutes ago, digger70 said:

I get paid a Government pension in AUS same as all Age pensioners.

That's got Nothing to do with the Crown. 

 

Australia....

 

The Age Pension: Similar to the UK State Pension, but funded differently

 

Government Pensions: For Public Sector Employees the equivalent of UK Servants of the Crown.

 

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, newbee2022 said:

There are more countries without any "Crown". A state pension is guaranteed by the state, in opposition to a pension created by private investment

 

Australia....

 

The Age Pension: Similar to the UK State Pension, but funded differently

 

Government Pensions: For Public Sector Employees the equivalent of UK Servants of the Crown.

[newbee2022]

1 minute ago, Will B Good said:

 

Australia....

 

The Age Pension: Similar to the UK State Pension, but funded differently

 

Government Pensions: For Public Sector Employees the equivalent of UK Servants of the Crown.

I'm not a "Crown" member but from EU

[Will B Good]

2 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

I'm not a "Crown" member but from EU

 

 

In most European countries, similar to the UK, retirement benefits are provided through both state pensions (universal or contributory) and government pensions for public servants. 

 

State pension and government pensions are not the same thing

 

 

[newbee2022]

Just now, Will B Good said:

 

 

In most European countries, similar  to the UK retirement benefits are provided through both state pensions (universal or contributory) and government pensions (occupational pensions for public servants). 

 

State pension and government pensions are not the same thing

 

 

Not relevant. For foreign taxpayers my tax office (CM) makes only differences between PRIVATE and STATE 

[digger70]

9 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

Australia....

 

The Age Pension: Similar to the UK State Pension, but funded differently

 

Government Pensions: For Public Sector Employees the equivalent of UK Servants of the Crown.

 

Doesn't matter How it is Funded it gets paid by the Government so on Paper it Is a Government Pension .Right

[alanrchase]

13 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

91 is for income by employment

So your OP was half a story. Mention pensions but not income. 

[Will B Good]

Just now, newbee2022 said:

Not relevant. For foreign taxpayers my tax office (CM) makes only differences between PRIVATE and STATE 

 

Presumably they are simply taking a government pension, paid to employees of the government, as the equivalent to company or private pension.

 

It simplifies matters to put all types of pension into just one of two groups.

 

Regardless, it is a matter of fact that a State pension is not a government pension, which started this mini-thread.

[Will B Good]

2 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Doesn't matter How it is Funded it gets paid by the Government so on Paper it Is a Government Pension .Right

 

No it is not.

 

The State pension is not taxed at source and everyone who pays enough NIC's qualifies.

 

The government pension is paid to government employees only.....teachers, doctors, nurses.....taxed at source and is nothing to do with the State pension per se.

 

The fact that both are paid by the government does not mean they are both government pensions......one is the State pension and one is a government pension.