My Thai Tax Office Tax Filing Experience...

[KhunHeineken]

19 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

A perfect illustration of the (in)famous Thai expression: "Farang fink too mut"

Yes, until you have to deal with Thai government officials and they say to you, "Why you no fink mut about this?  Now you must pay 10,000 baht for no do before."  

[CallumWK]

3 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Taking the "linking" possibility away from it, are you suggesting that this whole tax policy, as been reported in the news, IS NOT currently being applied as we speak? 

 

Are you saying the whole thing doesn't exist, and is nothing?

 

Can you clarify your position on the issue?   

 

Where did I say that the taxing isn't happening???

 

You are scaremongering that it WILL be linked to visa extensions. Where is your source?

[KhunHeineken]

1 minute ago, CallumWK said:

 

Where did I say that the taxing isn't happening???

 

You are scaremongering that it WILL be linked to visa extensions. Where is your source?

Yawn. 

 

I've said many times it's my opinion.  YOU have not put forward ANY reason why they would never do it. 

 

So, go on the record, and post why YOU think it will NEVER be linked. 

 

Would it hurt you to cast an eye over tomorrow, instead of just living for today?

[Yumthai]

8 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Yes, until you have to deal with Thai government officials and they say to you, "Why you no fink mut about this?  Now you must pay 10,000 baht for no do before."  

I'm well aware of what I need to know in Thailand, and anyway usually able to bargain this kind of unlikely event for way less money.

[KhunHeineken]

7 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

I'm well aware of what I need to know in Thailand, and anyway usually able to bargain this kind of unlikely event for way less money.

I accept that, and agree, and that will be my way of dealing with this tax policy, through an agent / accountant, of course.  The main thing is I will be in their system as having filed, and I will have proof of doing so. which goes a long way to having no nasty surprises  down the track. 

 

Members on another thread are telling me how it's "illegal" to use an agent for extensions.  Yes, it is illegal, but TiT.  

 

In relation to this tax policy, it's funny how some members say it will never happen, because of TiT, but if it does happen, they will use TiT to their advantage to deal with it. 

 

I don't have a problem with using TiT to deal with things here, but it's funny how some will change from being "legal" and criticizing others, to using TiT and being "illegal" when it suits them. 

[NoDisplayName]

Another Expat Tax video on the Youtubes, thoroughly frustrating.  TRD legal guy drones on endlessly, translator gives a short, muddled, sort of English version, but can't seem to follow the script.

 

Foreigner guy asks what to do if we get conflicting statements from TRD office, if you know you owe tax and need to file, but TRD staff send you away.  Answer -- basically, learn Thai.

 

Foreigner guy asks about filing requirements for non-assessable income.  Answer -- if your social security is not assessable, however if you bring the assessable income and you want a tax credit you need to file the tax return.

 

Foreigner guy asks about prior "cash in the bank"...and he quickly under his breath adds "pre-2024 income that is actually moved into cash."

 

Foreigner guy gets the expected, known answer and says "just for cash in the bank, not pensions, not investments.  great, that's really useful.  fine, so moving on...."   But we already know this, ask the real questions, dammit!  Why move on, instead of following up with, "well, what about investments pre-2024?" 

 

Sad.  Bigly sad.  A prestigious internet law firm should be able to hire a competent translator.

 

 

[oldcpu]

25 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Another Expat Tax video on the Youtubes, thoroughly frustrating.  TRD legal guy drones on endlessly, translator gives a short, muddled, sort of English version, but can't seem to follow the script.

 

.....

But we already know this, ask the real questions, dammit!  Why move on, instead of following up with, "well, what about investments pre-2024?" 

 

Sad.  Bigly sad.  A prestigious internet law firm should be able to hire a competent translator.

 

The cynic in me is thinking , if they clarified things too much, they would not get as much business.

 

[CallumWK]

1 minute ago, oldcpu said:

 

The cynic in me is thinking , if they clarified things too much, they would not get as much business.

 

 

The realist in me is thinking, similar as with every government department, each office will make up their own rules on the spot.

[oldcpu]

1 minute ago, CallumWK said:

 

The realist in me is thinking, similar as with every government department, each office will make up their own rules on the spot.

 

In case of immigration offices, the local immigration offices do LEGALLY have a lot of leeway to interpret the rules the way they see fit.  I think in the immigration threads, that has been noted time and time again.

 

As for the local RD taxation offices, i suspect they too have some leeway, although there is so little reported (yet) on this,  I think most of us don't yet have a solid assessment as to how much leeway.

 

[NoDisplayName]

6 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

In case of immigration offices, the local immigration offices do LEGALLY have a lot of leeway to interpret the rules the way they see fit.  I think in the immigration threads, that has been noted time and time again.

 

As for the local RD taxation offices, i suspect they too have some leeway, although there is so little reported (yet) on this,  I think most of us don't yet have a solid assessment as to how much leeway.

 

 

That's 'cause most of us do have experience with immigration, while most of us do NOT have experience with TRD.

[KhunHeineken]

36 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Another Expat Tax video on the Youtubes, thoroughly frustrating.  TRD legal guy drones on endlessly, translator gives a short, muddled, sort of English version, but can't seem to follow the script.

 

Foreigner guy asks what to do if we get conflicting statements from TRD office, if you know you owe tax and need to file, but TRD staff send you away.  Answer -- basically, learn Thai.

 

Foreigner guy asks about filing requirements for non-assessable income.  Answer -- if your social security is not assessable, however if you bring the assessable income and you want a tax credit you need to file the tax return.

 

Foreigner guy asks about prior "cash in the bank"...and he quickly under his breath adds "pre-2024 income that is actually moved into cash."

 

Foreigner guy gets the expected, known answer and says "just for cash in the bank, not pensions, not investments.  great, that's really useful.  fine, so moving on...."   But we already know this, ask the real questions, dammit!  Why move on, instead of following up with, "well, what about investments pre-2024?" 

 

Sad.  Bigly sad.  A prestigious internet law firm should be able to hire a competent translator.

 

 

There are some members relying on Somchai's advice from their local TRD Office that they do not have to file. 

 

The Senior Legal Advisor from the TRD basically said disregard Somchai's advice, and go back with documents to demand a TIN and file, so you can get that magical piece of paper that many believe will be needed at extension time.

 

Who to believe? Somchai, because it's easier, or the Senior Legal Advisor of the TRD, to cover your a**? 

[KhunHeineken]

37 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

The cynic in me is thinking , if they clarified things too much, they would not get as much business.

 

Who, Carl, or the TRD???? 

[KhunHeineken]

24 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

That's 'cause most of us do have experience with immigration, while most of us do NOT have experience with TRD.

Exactly. 

 

Yet, whilst many strictly adhere to immigration laws here, strangely, they do not see TRD laws in the same way. 

 

Remember Al Capone? 

[NoDisplayName]

10 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

The Senior Legal Advisor from the TRD basically said

 

Did he?  Let's hear from some posters who can translate what the man actually said.

 

It was uncomfortable from the start, as foreign guy was accusing TRD staff of incompetence.  Translator says "sensative question... hahahah ..(nervous laughter)" to which foreigner guy gives him an out by offering stupid foreigners can't speak Thai.

 

TRD legal guy speaks for well over a full minute, and translator guy and foreigner guy agree it's just a language issue, so just bring more paper.

 

He didn't address the issue.  Foreign shows up, claims need to file due to assessable income, TRD official either isn't interested or doesn't know how to do the job.

 

Watch the body language of TRD legal guy during the explanation.  If he was in court for a parking ticket, the jury would find him guilty of murder!

 

Foreigner guy just goes along with the farce, "just need to take documentary evidence to prove you owe tax."

 

"and yeah, ok, clear, that makes sense."

[NoDisplayName]

2 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Remember Al Capone? 

 

Didn't Geraldo open Capone's safe and find Jimmy Hoffa?

[KhunHeineken]

38 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

The realist in me is thinking, similar as with every government department, each office will make up their own rules on the spot.

I accept this, but will it "fly" with your immigration office at extension time, or the immigration desk at the airport? 

 

The TRD gets your bank remittance details.  Somchai at your local TRD says, "No need to file" because it's near his lunch break.

 

Is it soooo left field that Somchai gave the wrong advice, and you may have problems down the track? 

 

Yeah, yeah, I know.  In Somchai we trust, and it's just scaremongering blah blah blah. 

[WingNut]

4 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Could you ask them about filing online?

 

Phrase it like you're doing them a favor by not having them wade through all your unnecessary bank documents.

 

Ask if you file online, and only enter the totals for each type of assessable income, will that be correct?  Insist that you will maintain the Wise and bank documents and can produce them if requested.

 

I have no plans to return to the PRD office at this time. But filing online shouldn't be a problem. And I did ask them briefly about it when I was there the other day and they did say when filing online that it is possible to upload and attach additional documents to your online filing. If it is possible to do that then I might consider it myself next year because all of my Wise transfer receipts are already in PDF form, which means I wouldn't have to print them to submit them, just upload them. And I am not planning at this point to submit bank statements next year, just the Wise transfer receipts. But I have a year now to make a final decision on that and what I will ultimately choose to do next year may be based on how things develop further this year with the PRD on this whole issue of taxation for residents.

[WingNut]

4 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

 

This has absolutely nothing to do with the TRD or Thai taxation. They have nothing in their remit, even remotely related to this.

 

This is your individual, speculative future concern, that someone (less polite than myself) could validly describe as fearmongering. 

 

 

Excellent. Now you don't ever have to give the concern I raised another single thought. Just completely forget about it and be happy.

 

And, as I already also said in a previous post earlier today: But you should do whatever you feel is right for yourself. Disregard everything I’ve shared if you prefer, and handle things in whatever way makes the most sense for you.

[WingNut]

5 hours ago, roo860 said:

You think an updated bank book would be sufficient, that shows monies coming in to your account?

 

I wanted to add that if you only submit photo copies of your bankbook pages that they could still request statements later if they decide to dig deeper. It might seem redundant, but it is a known fact that bankbooks in Thailand often don't contain all the transactions that occurred on the account whereas a statement does. This is why the Immigration department requires 12 month's of bank statements, in addition to the updated bankbook, when extending a long term visa.

[WingNut]

4 hours ago, Unamerican said:

@WingNut  So is it the case that you cannot use the DTA to reduce the tax you owe here? 

 

Or maybe you are not liable to tax on your remitted income?

 

Either of these would make you atypical. 

 

All of my income that I reported to the TRD has already been taxed overseas and qualifies under the Thai DTA as income tax already paid on the subject income. But I didn't need to show any evidence of this since my remitted income didn't reach the threshold where I would be liable for any income tax in Thailand as you mentioned. It is not from a pension as I mentioned before. It is personal income from overseas and I can decide how much to bring in or not bring in at any given time.

[WingNut]

4 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Thank you OP  for sharing your experience, I do mean this. 

 

It looks as if you're one of those rare individuals who seem compelled to comply (over comply), "just in case" , BUT conveniently, owe zero tax!

 

Why is it that every single report of anyone actually filing a Thai tax return....... seems to result in not actually paying anything, or even getting a refund?

 

Again, we see not a single baht of tax paid on foreign income remitted to Thailand.............

 

Your welcome. Yes, I always comply with everything as best I can. That has always been my way of attempting to avoid problems in the future. And the reason I owe zero tax is because the amount I transferred in last year did not exceed the limit for not owing personal income tax in Thailand as a resident. Since I control the amount of money I transfer in, I can also make sure that I don't go over the non-taxable limit. Pretty simple and I will do the same for this year.

 

I can't speak for others though. I haven't followed anyone else's posts or topics on this. So I don't really know what others are doing.

[WingNut]

4 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Passbook update machines are located outside many banks, and in most major malls.  Don't need to go in during business hours and take a number.

 

Thank you. Yes, I have used them in the past and used one the other night to update my passbook again. Many of them operate 24 hours. But in general, I have no reason to update my passbook often. I do all my banking online. Sometimes there are so many transaction too that the book would fill up quickly and would need to be replaced regularly if I update it too regularly. So I rather update it once in a great while and get a consolidated updated entry that doesn't eat up multiple pages. I only ever really need to update it once a year for visa extension purposes anyway.

[NoDisplayName]

24 minutes ago, WingNut said:

 

I have no plans to return to the PRD office at this time. But filing online shouldn't be a problem. And I did ask them briefly about it when I was there the other day and they did say when filing online that it is possible to upload and attach additional documents to your online filing. If it is possible to do that then I might consider it myself next year because all of my Wise transfer receipts are already in PDF form, which means I wouldn't have to print them to submit them, just upload them. And I am not planning at this point to submit bank statements next year, just the Wise transfer receipts. But I have a year now to make a final decision on that and what I will ultimately choose to do next year may be based on how things develop further this year with the PRD on this whole issue of taxation for residents.

 

As long as you remain under the your TEDA to owe taxes, you're fine.  You're just adding extra, unasked for documents.  

 

No problem to pay tax due online from within the system by bank transfer if you do owe, but if you plan to claim a foreign tax credit, you'll probably need to file in person.

 

We know about the section 11(13) workaround a couple of folks have been advised to use to deduct foreign tax, but seemingly not possible online, as that section is completed by the system.

[topt]

13 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

Again, we see not a single baht of tax paid on foreign income remitted to Thailand.............

Actually there was a report either on this thread or another one in the last couple of days where the guy filed for remitting 454k and paid 7,500 odd baht from memory - initially I thought why as TEDA would have been more but reading again he was only 62/63 so no extra 190k allowance.

 

Just found it - see next post

 

[topt]

On 2/4/2025 at 12:58 PM, alanrchase said:

Just been and done mine. 

Situation, one year extension based on retirement, 63, married to a 62 year old Thai, one adult child who is working, wife does not work, 454,000 transfered from an offshore account, source of funds declared as interest, no dual taxation treaties apply.

Started at Bangkok Bank, asked for a withholding tax statement for myself and my wife. A bit of confusion because of the word "statement", their term is withholding tax receipt. Got mine, wife never keeps enough in her account to require one. Then requested a FST for the single transfer I had made in April last year, no issues getting that. If you haven't requested those documents before they were done at the teller desks in my branch. I tried at the sit down desks first which wasted a bit of time.

Went off to the local revenue office on my own, wife went shopping and home. Handed the nice lady behind the desk my withholding tax receipt, FST, tax ID and passport. Explained in my poor version of Thai why I was there. She seemed up to date on the requirement for me to file. She took my wife's details from a picture of the ID on my phone. I explained the money was all interest on a bank account and she asked me to sit and wait. I tried to point out a transaction for my motorcycle insurance that I made with a foreign debit card, she nodded but I am not sure she understood, the information was on a Thai insurance app and I had no hard copy of the transaction. Provided phone number and cleared up a few questions she had regarding passport. Shortly after that she printed the documents, pointed out I had 3,774 baht to pay and asked me to sign. Paid with QR code via bank app and was handed the receipt.

Asked if I could have a copy of the paperwork which was a mistake. They will do it but it is an "official" copy which requires more copies of passport, more signatures, stamps on each copy and a fee of 42 baht.

Started in the bank at 10am walked out of the Revenue office at 12:00. Would have been 20 minutes earlier if I hadn't asked for the copy.

 

[anrcaccount]

42 minutes ago, topt said:

 

OK, I stand corrected, one individual managed to pay a hefty 3774 THB.

 

I wonder what the income was processed as on the return, looks like we'll never know, as the paperwork was not received. 

[alanrchase]

1 hour ago, anrcaccount said:

OK, I stand corrected, one individual managed to pay a hefty 3774 THB.

 

I wonder what the income was processed as on the return, looks like we'll never know, as the paperwork was not received. 

The income was processed under 1. 1. 40(1). That is for salary, wages, pension etc.. Theoretically it should be under interest I suppose but I am retired so it is like a pension to me.

If anyone is interested I put it into the tax calculator below and the amount it gives agrees with what I paid if my Thai bank interest and withholding tax is not taken into account. The calculator has no way of entering that.

 

https://www.uobam.co.th/en/tax-calculation

 

I include a picture from the copy of my return for the skeptics. 

[KhunHeineken]

5 hours ago, topt said:

 

What's interesting is, if he went to another TRD Office, they may have said to him, "No need to file." 

 

Anyway, he now has his documents, and he's done with it for the next 12 months.  

[KhunHeineken]

16 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Did he?  Let's hear from some posters who can translate what the man actually said.

 

It was uncomfortable from the start, as foreign guy was accusing TRD staff of incompetence.  Translator says "sensative question... hahahah ..(nervous laughter)" to which foreigner guy gives him an out by offering stupid foreigners can't speak Thai.

 

TRD legal guy speaks for well over a full minute, and translator guy and foreigner guy agree it's just a language issue, so just bring more paper.

 

He didn't address the issue.  Foreign shows up, claims need to file due to assessable income, TRD official either isn't interested or doesn't know how to do the job.

 

Watch the body language of TRD legal guy during the explanation.  If he was in court for a parking ticket, the jury would find him guilty of murder!

 

Foreigner guy just goes along with the farce, "just need to take documentary evidence to prove you owe tax."

 

"and yeah, ok, clear, that makes sense."

Question:  As with all things immigration, do you think it's best to err on the safe side with this tax policy, even for just the first year? 

[NoDisplayName]

14 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Question:  As with all things immigration, do you think it's best to err on the safe side with this tax policy, even for just the first year? 

 

Not in the sense you've been preaching.

 

The tax filing season is now 40% gone, and the year is 1/10 over.

 

No new tax forms have appeared, no changes have been initiated by immigration, visas and extensions continue as before.

 

There shan't be any surprise immigration changes this year, nor likely next year, or even the next.

 

A major change such as immigration demanding tax clearance certificates will require muchly prior notification.

 

I've got online null returns, with tax withholding refunds, for the past four tax cycles, so would not be affected.  I'm not advising anyone NOT to be prepared, only that I don't believe your fearporn warnings need be taken seriously.