Road Safety in Thailand – a summary of Perceptions and Reality

[fredwiggy]

15 minutes ago, kwilco said:

 th

it evidence based!

Evidence of what? Are you that much of a dolt that you can't understand you don't know anyone on earth at all unless you actually spend a lot of time with them? You keep missing the point that what you've said about why accidents happen most everyone already knows including myself. Are you that dense that you can't fathom what you've read about others also can? There are countless books and articles that have been written about driver safety, and people like myself and others from western countries have learned it as teenagers. Where are you from? I'm thinking maybe here, as you seem not to know about what's learned in western countries.

[kwilco]

On 2/15/2025 at 11:43 PM, fredwiggy said:

Evidence of what? Are you that much of a dolt that you can't understand you don't know anyone on earth at all unless you actually spend a lot of time with them? You keep missing the point that what you've said about why accidents happen most everyone already knows including myself. Are you that dense that you can't fathom what you've read about others also can? There are countless books and articles that have been written about driver safety, and people like myself and others from western countries have learned it as teenagers. Where are you from? I'm thinking maybe here, as you seem not to know about what's learned in western countries.

which books are those?

more to the point which books have you actually read?

[fredwiggy]

10 minutes ago, kwilco said:

which books are those?

more to the point which books have you actually read?

I was 17 when I took my drivers test. They have books in classes, along with videos. If you have access to the internet, which you obviously do, you can research what books are available about driver safety. The books I've read have no bearing on this, as do any you've read. Anyone can look up most anything online and quote it here. You keep coming back. Why? You still don't understand others in the world know what you do about driver safety, and a lot more .The material is available for everyone to read. What you fail to understand is that attitudes on driving can't be changed by a test or a book.

[kwilco]

32 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I was 17 when I took my drivers test. They have books in classes, along with videos. If you have access to the internet, which you obviously do, you can research what books are available about driver safety. The books I've read have no bearing on this, as do any you've read. Anyone can look up most anything online and quote it here. You keep coming back. Why? You still don't understand others in the world know what you do about driver safety, and a lot more .The material is available for everyone to read. What you fail to understand is that attitudes on driving can't be changed by a test or a book.

"There are countless books and articles that have been written about driver safety, "

"The books I've read have no bearing on this,"

"Anyone can look up most anything online and quote it here." = it seems you don't even know how to research a topic - so how could tyou expect to have a reasoned discussion ?

I think you need to make up your mind. You claim you read when you were 17????? - I think that was a long, long time ago.

Your comments lead me to believe that you really haven't read anything on road safety, I don't think you even know where to look - and you make the fundamental mistake of thinking that google is a source.

it has to be said I don't think you are equipped to make this debate in any coherent terms

[fredwiggy]

3 minutes ago, kwilco said:

"There are countless books and articles that have been written about driver safety, "

"The books I've read have no bearing on this,"

I think you need to make up your mind.

Are you talking about all books or just books on driver safety? I mentioned I took my drivers test at 17, 51 years ago, and the classes had their books, which all in America had to read to pass the test, along with the videos. Those who took driver's ed also had more material available. What you've been quoting all along I'm sure everyone here from the west already knew, as our tests are a lot harder than they are here. And we didn't have phones to escape to while the classes were taken, meaning if we didn't pass the test, we didn't get a license.

[kwilco]

24 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I mentioned I took my drivers test at 17, 51 years ago,

 You are now fixating on the driving test, which is clearly show not to have the effects you claim - countries with a far more lenient testing system have much better road safety records than the US - which actually does licencing by state and not on a national basis.

As I said earlier, the safety system was first published as a complete entity in the 1990s - you don't seem to realise that America  - (which I mentioned earlier) has not fully adopted the safe system and has one of the worst road safety records in the "west" - as I said earlier, you are more likely to die in a 4-wheeled vehicle in the States than you are in the UK - the figures per 100k pop are actually higher in the USA.

 

If you care to do some serious reading on Raod Safety, here are just a few of the references I used in the OP

 

Some of the organizations include...

• The World Health Organization (WHO) -

https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-
source/thailand/roadsafety/overview-en-final-25-7-

19.pdf?sfvrsn=f9d7a862_2
• Save the children Thailand -
https://thailand.savethechildren.net/sites/thailand.savethechildren.net/files/
library/Save%20the%20Children’s%20Work%20in%20Road%20Safety%20-
%20The%207%25%20Project_1.pdf
• ThaiRoads Foundation - http://www.thairoads.org/en/
5 https://roadsafety.piarc.org/en/road-safety-management-safety-data/crash-data-system

• International Road Assessment Program (iRAP) and Chulalongkorn

University - https://irap.org/2018/11/new-thai-centre-of-excellence-
chulalongkorn-university/

• The Embassy of Sweden is coordinating a group called “the Embassy Friends

of Road Safety (EFRS) - https://scandasia.com/tag/the-embassy-friends-of-
road-safety-efrs/

• Thailand Road Safety Observatory, TRSO -
=http://www.atransociety.com/resources/pdf/pdfResearch2013-
2018/2014/Project2014-006(Dr.Paramet).pdf
• Arrive Alive - Association of Southeast Asian Nations Regional Road Safety
Strategy and Action Plan (2005–2010) -

https://www.adb.org/publications/arrive-alive-asean-regional-road-safety-
and-action-plan-2005-2010

• ASEAN TRANSPORT STRATEGIC PLAN 2016-2025 - https://www.itf-
oecd.org/asean-transport-strategic-plan-2016-2025-and-progress-road-
safety-initiatives

• EU/ASEAN - https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/eu-and-asean-
exchange-knowledge-and-best-practices-road-safety_en

• Australia, Safe System Solutions -

https://www.austrade.gov.au/news/success-stories/australian-consultancy-
helps-improve-road-safety-in-thailand

• Bloomberg Philanthropies Initiative for Global Road Safety -
https://www.bloomberg.org/public-health/improving-road-safety/
• Office of Transport & Traffic Policy & Planning(OTP), Ministry of Transport -
https://www.mot.go.th/about.html?dsfm_lang=EN&id=12
• Thai RSC. - Accident road safety Data for Thailand -
http://www.thairsc.com/eng/
• World Bank -

https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2019/03/26/working-towards-
improving-road-safety-and-saving-lives-in-thailand

https://www.pacts.org.uk/pacts-model-inspires-road-safety-progress-in-thailand/

 

[fredwiggy]

14 minutes ago, kwilco said:

 You are now fixating on the driving test, which is clearly show not to have the effects you claim - countries with a far more lenient testing system have much better road safety records than the US - which actually does licencing by state and not on a national basis.

As I said earlier, the safety system was first published as a complete entity in the 1990s - you don't seem to realise that America  - (which I mentioned earlier) has not fully adopted the safe system and has one of the worst road safety records in the "west" - as I said earlier, you are more likely to die in a 4-wheeled vehicle in the States than you are in the UK - the figures per 100k pop are actually higher in the USA.

You are still missing my point, so read these next lines a few times so it sinks in................ Everyone here, including me, knows why accidents happen, as we are all in our 60's and beyond and have been driving roads for a long, long time. Everything you quoted we knew many years ago. There are reasons accidents happen and we are well aware of them. DO NOT THINK YOU KNOW WHAT OTHERS DO OR DON"T KNOW! That's assuming, and it's how an uneducated person thinks. 

 

People in America are fully aware of the road safety that's needed. People are involved in accidents there mostly because of cell phone use, besides the drunk drivers. Most of the deaths and accidents that happen here involve scooters. In the west it's vehicles. People on scooters think they can weave in and out of traffic, which cars cannot do unless there are spaces between the cars. This is how many of them get into accidents here. Selfish behavior, thinking they can do whatever they want.

 

You must not drive around Thailand much or are another of the brown nosers that feel the need to stick up for their bad behavior. The attitudes towards life, and driving here, are not the same as in the west. They know the laws but do not care to follow them. My example of a dad wearing a helmet while 4 others on the scooter don't proves this. He knows drivers need to wear helmets, and that all passengers are supposed to, and that scooter use means only two passengers. He thinks by wearing a helmet he won't get pulled over and he's right, as the police here are severely lacking in road enforcement. What point you're missing in all of this is that no matter what roads, enforcement, infrastructure or laws are available to Thai drivers, and all drivers, it's still the DRIVER'S responsibility to drive safe. A good driver slows down on bad roads and in bad weather. A bad driver thinks they can drive the same, until they find out the hard way. You thinking Thai drivers are better drivers than western is ignorance.

[kwilco]

3 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Everyone here, including me, knows why accidents happen

Apparently not.

[fredwiggy]

Just now, kwilco said:

Apparently not.

Assuming again.

[kwilco]

12 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

You are still missing my point, so read these next lines a few times so it sinks in................ Everyone here, including me, knows why accidents happen, as we are all in our 60's and beyond and have been driving roads for a long, long time. Everything you quoted we knew many years ago. There are reasons accidents happen and we are well aware of them. DO NOT THINK YOU KNOW WHAT OTHERS DO OR DON"T KNOW! That's assuming, and it's how an uneducated person thinks. 

 

People in America are fully aware of the road safety that's needed. People are involved in accidents there mostly because of cell phone use, besides the drunk drivers. Most of the deaths and accidents that happen here involve scooters. In the west it's vehicles. People on scooters think they can weave in and out of traffic, which cars cannot do unless there are spaces between the cars. This is how many of them get into accidents here. Selfish behavior, thinking they can do whatever they want.

 

You must not drive around Thailand much or are another of the brown nosers that feel the need to stick up for their bad behavior. The attitudes towards life, and driving here, are not the same as in the west. They know the laws but do not care to follow them. My example of a dad wearing a helmet while 4 others on the scooter don't proves this. He knows drivers need to wear helmets, and that all passengers are supposed to, and that scooter use means only two passengers. He thinks by wearing a helmet he won't get pulled over and he's right, as the police here are severely lacking in road enforcement. What point you're missing in all of this is that no matter what roads, enforcement, infrastructure or laws are available to Thai drivers, and all drivers, it's still the DRIVER'S responsibility to drive safe. A good driver slows down on bad roads and in bad weather. A bad driver thinks they can drive the same, until they find out the hard way. You thinking Thai drivers are better drivers than western is ignorance.

 

 

“You thinking Thai drivers are better drivers than western is ignorance." – now you are just making stuff up…or let’s admit it – you haven’t read anything I posted

You keep insisting you ‘already know’ everything, yet you ignore every point made. That’s not intelligence—it’s arrogance.

Nobody denies individual responsibility, but effective road safety is about systemic solutions, not just blaming drivers. Countries with once-terrible traffic safety records have improved dramatically through adopting the WHOLE Safe System including  better enforcement, infrastructure, and education, emergency and evaluation—not by ranting about ‘bad attitudes.’

You complain that Thai drivers ‘don’t care’ about laws, but why? Because the 5Es are not adopted—the very things you refuse to acknowledge matter.

And your ‘brown-noser’ insult? That’s just a weak attempt to deflect from your lack of a real argument. Road safety improves when problems are addressed, not just complained about. That’s what you don’t get

 

[kwilco]

many sould see hemsleves in this

Detailed descriptions of how “bad” other motorists driving is are seldom helpful. Without analysis, all they do is reinforce those people’s prejudices about driving in Thailand - i.e.

The Dunning Kruger effect is very common -.. a cognitive bias whereby people with limited knowledge or competence in a given intellectual or social domain greatly overestimate their own knowledge or competence in that domain relative to objective criteria or to the performance of their peers or of people in general. - https://www.britannica.com/science/Dunning-Kruger-effect

Blaming people or even the entire nation, rather than considering the underlying causes. There is also the temptation to attempt simplify matters by looking for one single solution for the whole problem; a sort of road safety panacea.

A few common truths about how motorists see themselves versus other road users

“Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?” - George Carlin

“The one thing that unites all human beings, regardless of age, gender, religion, economic status, or ethnic background, is that, deep down inside, we all believe that we are above- average drivers.” – Dave Barry

“The survey by Michelin North America found that the majority of Americans don’t trust other drivers and say they witness unsafe driving behavior regularly. At the same time, an overwhelming majority - 81 percent - remain supremely confident in their own abilities behind the wheel.” 10

These were some observations resulting from research done by the Centre for Transport and Society - UK....

The public know that driver behaviour is a major contributory factor in the vast majority of road accidents... (Cauzard, 2003) -
But there is a consistent view that OTHERS drive in a riskier manner than individuals themselves do - (King and Parker, 2008)

It’s not just driving – older children and adolescents think they have good attitude and skills towards road safety but believe that others especially those in their peer group do not - (Tolmie. 2006).

Individuals do not believe they are dangerous on the roads but at the same time fervently believe others are.
• I am not likely to be responsible for an accident; others are likely to be responsible. Therefore, little I can do.

• Hence, less likely to need to “plan to avoid them”
• Campaigns aimed at dangerous driving are for “other” drivers not themselves.
• Such campaigns re-emphasise this difference (2CV, 2008 and Flaming Research, 2008) • The third-person effect (Davison, 1983).
• High support for enforcement, engineering solutions and education
• But not for themselves - for other people.

However, the reality can be a long way from these benighted perspectives.

10 https://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/23/george-carlin-was-right-other-drivers-are-idiots-and-maniacs.html  

[fredwiggy]

1 minute ago, kwilco said:

 

 

“You thinking Thai drivers are better drivers than western is ignorance." – now you are just making stuff up…or let’s admit it – you haven’t read anything I posted

You keep insisting you ‘already know’ everything, yet you ignore every point made. That’s not intelligence—it’s arrogance.

Nobody denies individual responsibility, but effective road safety is about systemic solutions, not just blaming drivers. Countries with once-terrible traffic safety records have improved dramatically through adopting the WHOLE Safe System including  better enforcement, infrastructure, and education, emergency and evaluation—not by ranting about ‘bad attitudes.’

You complain that Thai drivers ‘don’t care’ about laws, but why? Because the 5Es are not adopted—the very things you refuse to acknowledge matter.

And your ‘brown-noser’ insult? That’s just a weak attempt to deflect from your lack of a real argument. Road safety improves when problems are addressed, not just complained about. That’s what you don’t get

 

I've read al you posted , and again, knew this when I was a teenager, as everyone else here did. If you READ what I write and not SKIM, you'll see that I agree with what's been written, and just added the real reason accidents first happen, something you keep dismissing. Many people don't care about driving laws, which is obvious with all the accidents that happen worldwide. It's not a rant about attitudes, but a fact. Life itself is not as precious as it is in the west, period. I'm not arguing. I'm just pointing something out you can't or won't understand. It's all been on you all along. I know why accidents happen, but you miss the real reason. A good driver can drive on any road, in any condition, in any weather and still drive safe. A bad driver doesn't care. Thai drivers are aware of the laws, although training needs improvement here, as well as enforcement. If tests were harder, roads were improved, police wrote tickets all the time like in the west, accidents would still happen here because they don't care. This si something you have missed all along, and seeing you've done research on this for 20 years here, that means you probably never leave the house. Those of us that do, and have driven a million more miles than you, have observed how people drive both here and in the west, and if you think it's the same, you're blind.

[kwilco]

18 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Assuming again.

 

I am working on the evidence you have presented on this thread.

 

If find it said that your arguments are purely ad hom and gainsaying and you concentrate of the message rather than the messenger. It is a sign of lazy thinking. 

you try to cast aspersions about my "experience" but you clearlty don't understand what experience is needed - under your classification I have FAR more experience than you but  what you fail to comprehend is that what I am presenting are the established views and opinions of world experts on raod safety not of some hick who can drive a car.

[fredwiggy]

3 minutes ago, kwilco said:

many sould see hemsleves in this

Detailed descriptions of how “bad” other motorists driving is are seldom helpful. Without analysis, all they do is reinforce those people’s prejudices about driving in Thailand - i.e.

The Dunning Kruger effect is very common -.. a cognitive bias whereby people with limited knowledge or competence in a given intellectual or social domain greatly overestimate their own knowledge or competence in that domain relative to objective criteria or to the performance of their peers or of people in general. - https://www.britannica.com/science/Dunning-Kruger-effect

Blaming people or even the entire nation, rather than considering the underlying causes. There is also the temptation to attempt simplify matters by looking for one single solution for the whole problem; a sort of road safety panacea.

A few common truths about how motorists see themselves versus other road users

“Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?” - George Carlin

“The one thing that unites all human beings, regardless of age, gender, religion, economic status, or ethnic background, is that, deep down inside, we all believe that we are above- average drivers.” – Dave Barry

“The survey by Michelin North America found that the majority of Americans don’t trust other drivers and say they witness unsafe driving behavior regularly. At the same time, an overwhelming majority - 81 percent - remain supremely confident in their own abilities behind the wheel.” 10

These were some observations resulting from research done by the Centre for Transport and Society - UK....

The public know that driver behaviour is a major contributory factor in the vast majority of road accidents... (Cauzard, 2003) -
But there is a consistent view that OTHERS drive in a riskier manner than individuals themselves do - (King and Parker, 2008)

It’s not just driving – older children and adolescents think they have good attitude and skills towards road safety but believe that others especially those in their peer group do not - (Tolmie. 2006).

Individuals do not believe they are dangerous on the roads but at the same time fervently believe others are.
• I am not likely to be responsible for an accident; others are likely to be responsible. Therefore, little I can do.

• Hence, less likely to need to “plan to avoid them”
• Campaigns aimed at dangerous driving are for “other” drivers not themselves.
• Such campaigns re-emphasise this difference (2CV, 2008 and Flaming Research, 2008) • The third-person effect (Davison, 1983).
• High support for enforcement, engineering solutions and education
• But not for themselves - for other people.

However, the reality can be a long way from these benighted perspectives.

10 https://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/23/george-carlin-was-right-other-drivers-are-idiots-and-maniacs.html  

Stop ,posting things we already knew long before we even moved here. You aren't proving anything and just going over the same material. People besides you know why accidents happen. People are responsible for gathering data. That means people like myself and others. You don't have to be an "expert" to see how drivers drive. It isn't racist pointing out how drivers drive. It' isn't biased to point out what you see. It's not the entire nation at fault. There is no single solution to stop accidents. We all know why accidents happen. YOU don't understand it's still on the driver first.