Thailand’s Policy On Quality Tourism

[steveromagnino]

One point; blah, blah, blah ...

Do you spend a lot of time talking to yourself in a mirror?

Well i sure do like looking at my own reflection. And hearing my own voice. After all....There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. This way, I get it in stereo.

Quite clever of you to come up with the idea of editing stuff down to 'blah blah blah'. You must be one of them 'quality tourists'

Mind you, I do take ya point, it was a hel_l of a long verbose load of crabbola for 'one point'. Ya caught me there, fair cop.

Ok, I'm out, I've been given a taste of my own medicine, and it is bitter. Bitter I tell you!

Edited August 10, 2007 by steveromagnino

[Ulysses G.]

I have to respect you for not trying to B.S. your way out it. I would have!

Edited August 11, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[chinthee]

This whole idea of publicly touting "quality tourists" is embarrassing for Thailand. It's a public admission that what it now has are not quality tourists. And, that furthermore, by simply announcing that it no longer wants low quality tourists (as has been defined by many here already) that would be enough. Until and unless they do change the laws and enforcement to shut down all the hoe houses masquerading as go gos and beer bars, karaokes etc., then it will continue to attract the very element it says it no longer wants. B.S. That will never happen and we know all the reasons why.

Las Vegas never publicly announced it no longer wanted low end tourists. It just received the most massive investment in world history to build a collection of 5 star mega palace resorts such as the world has never seen. Now, 5 star spenders obviously gravitate to those resorts, and low budget tourists still go in droves to Vegas, but they stay at clean, simple affordable places. Everyone benefits.

A 5-star tourist has many options in the world and in Asia. Thailand is certainly a viable choice, and many enjoy it here and return often. Many do not. Some think it's a dirty place where foreigners do nasty things. Some of them partake in this stuff on the side when they're not playing the links in their foursome. Everything is possible with tourists.

But, the truth is that if you build the place the right way, and then market it, the money will find its way to your door. Vegas is a perfect example, the Caribbean is another. Nobody went out of their way to proclaim "no low rent tourists!" That's just an admission of defeat.

[JR Texas]

This whole idea of publicly touting "quality tourists" is embarrassing for Thailand. It's a public admission that what it now has are not quality tourists. And, that furthermore, by simply announcing that it no longer wants low quality tourists (as has been defined by many here already) that would be enough. Until and unless they do change the laws and enforcement to shut down all the hoe houses masquerading as go gos and beer bars, karaokes etc., then it will continue to attract the very element it says it no longer wants. B.S. That will never happen and we know all the reasons why.

Las Vegas never publicly announced it no longer wanted low end tourists. It just received the most massive investment in world history to build a collection of 5 star mega palace resorts such as the world has never seen. Now, 5 star spenders obviously gravitate to those resorts, and low budget tourists still go in droves to Vegas, but they stay at clean, simple affordable places. Everyone benefits.

A 5-star tourist has many options in the world and in Asia. Thailand is certainly a viable choice, and many enjoy it here and return often. Many do not. Some think it's a dirty place where foreigners do nasty things. Some of them partake in this stuff on the side when they're not playing the links in their foursome. Everything is possible with tourists.

But, the truth is that if you build the place the right way, and then market it, the money will find its way to your door. Vegas is a perfect example, the Caribbean is another. Nobody went out of their way to proclaim "no low rent tourists!" That's just an admission of defeat.

Smart analysis.........getting at some elemental truths that nobody has stated. Thanks.

[chinthee]

This whole idea of publicly touting "quality tourists" is embarrassing for Thailand. It's a public admission that what it now has are not quality tourists. And, that furthermore, by simply announcing that it no longer wants low quality tourists (as has been defined by many here already) that would be enough. Until and unless they do change the laws and enforcement to shut down all the hoe houses masquerading as go gos and beer bars, karaokes etc., then it will continue to attract the very element it says it no longer wants. B.S. That will never happen and we know all the reasons why.

Las Vegas never publicly announced it no longer wanted low end tourists. It just received the most massive investment in world history to build a collection of 5 star mega palace resorts such as the world has never seen. Now, 5 star spenders obviously gravitate to those resorts, and low budget tourists still go in droves to Vegas, but they stay at clean, simple affordable places. Everyone benefits.

A 5-star tourist has many options in the world and in Asia. Thailand is certainly a viable choice, and many enjoy it here and return often. Many do not. Some think it's a dirty place where foreigners do nasty things. Some of them partake in this stuff on the side when they're not playing the links in their foursome. Everything is possible with tourists.

But, the truth is that if you build the place the right way, and then market it, the money will find its way to your door. Vegas is a perfect example, the Caribbean is another. Nobody went out of their way to proclaim "no low rent tourists!" That's just an admission of defeat.

Smart analysis.........getting at some elemental truths that nobody has stated. Thanks.

JR, you probably noticed some of my premises were similar to your position earlier, in that the smart tourism money is agnostic about high end or low end. You build in ways to accomodate all income levels and mass tourism too. Singapore's doing that now with the casino development. One on Sentosa for lower end and families, and one city centre for upscale visitors.

However, in thinking about this situation with the skin trade and Thailand, I truly do believe a large part of the current tourist dollar is somehow coming for this. It may not even be a matter of wanting to partake of any of the offerings, but simply to sit and watch and be entertained. If you took away the flesh attraction, Thailand might be no more exciting that perhaps Malaysia, which to me is the most boring country in Asia.

I've entertained lots of visitors who had never been to Thailand, but wanted to go "take a look" at the naughty stuff, and simply that was enough. It's hard to imagine Thailand ever looking like Hawaii in any way, shape or form. Anyway, to me, this is a moot argument. Who do you think owns Patpong 1 and 2, farangs????

[Ulysses G.]

However, in thinking about this situation with the skin trade and Thailand, I truly do believe a large part of the current tourist dollar is somehow coming for this. It may not even be a matter of wanting to partake of any of the offerings, but simply to sit and watch and be entertained. If you took away the flesh attraction, Thailand might be no more exciting that perhaps Malaysia, which to me is the most boring country in Asia.

I've entertained lots of visitors who had never been to Thailand, but wanted to go "take a look" at the naughty stuff, and simply that was enough.

GOOD POINT!

LOTS of tourists - including families - come here because all the prostitutes is what makes Thailand different from 1,000 other places with beaches.

Phuket is always swarming with families during high season and part of the attraction is watching the bargirls and ladyboys and what they get up to.

[pointofview]

What exactly is a "high quality tourist" anyway? Somebody that spends a lot per day? Somebody that doesn't annoy the locals or rock the boat? Celebrity status - so the TAT can boast in international circles?

I spend a good proportion of my time sourcing materials, sub-contractors & components. All are sold as high quality or Grade A. I have never seen so many different levels of grade A ranging from stuff that meets the grade to stuff that is downright useless sinand couldn't even be classified as grade E.

I would like to see what the TAT consideres a Grade A tourist.

Soundman.

'quality tourists should have purchasing power and not exploit the country and the people. They must not create problems that lead to natural and environmental destruction. '

Partly their demands, partly their ability to spend, partly their choice on what they choose to spend money on.

Sounds like:

whoremongers

drug takers/sellers

illegal workers

gangsters

scam artists

are good examples of what are considered to be 'not quality tourists'.

Not exactly a difficult benchmark; sadly one can see the human refuse at Nana Plaza on any given sunday and realise that even this low bar is not being reached.

I can understand your confusion as the press release really is a load of drivel; however looking deeper at it, you don't agree that the key to Thailand's success in tourism is a focus on getting the right type of visitor rather than sheer numbers and we'll take who we can get?

If the undesirable tourists are so easy to identify why not use one of the Thai governments brilliant new ideas - i.e. make them wear little kitty arm bands so everyone knows who they are, they should be so humiliated that they will leave of their own accord.

The Thais are really brilliant beyond belief when it comes to amazing ideas - i sometimes think they are so amazing that they have a different form of intelligence.  I hope though, this idea isnt scuppered because of copywright laws - not like the Thais to contravien copywrights.

[chinthee]

What exactly is a "high quality tourist" anyway? Somebody that spends a lot per day? Somebody that doesn't annoy the locals or rock the boat? Celebrity status - so the TAT can boast in international circles?

I spend a good proportion of my time sourcing materials, sub-contractors & components. All are sold as high quality or Grade A. I have never seen so many different levels of grade A ranging from stuff that meets the grade to stuff that is downright useless sinand couldn't even be classified as grade E.

I would like to see what the TAT consideres a Grade A tourist.

Soundman.

'quality tourists should have purchasing power and not exploit the country and the people. They must not create problems that lead to natural and environmental destruction. '

Partly their demands, partly their ability to spend, partly their choice on what they choose to spend money on.

Sounds like:

whoremongers

drug takers/sellers

illegal workers

gangsters

scam artists

are good examples of what are considered to be 'not quality tourists'.

Not exactly a difficult benchmark; sadly one can see the human refuse at Nana Plaza on any given sunday and realise that even this low bar is not being reached.

I can understand your confusion as the press release really is a load of drivel; however looking deeper at it, you don't agree that the key to Thailand's success in tourism is a focus on getting the right type of visitor rather than sheer numbers and we'll take who we can get?

If the undesirable tourists are so easy to identify why not use one of the Thai governments brilliant new ideas - i.e. make them wear little kitty arm bands so everyone knows who they are, they should be so humiliated that they will leave of their own accord.

The Thais are really brilliant beyond belief when it comes to amazing ideas - i sometimes think they are so amazing that they have a different form of intelligence. I hope though, this idea isnt scuppered because of copywright laws - not like the Thais to contravien copywrights.

Hello kitty armbands for backpackers and sex tourists!

[Jingthing]

Where do I get one? A Hello Kitty Armband I mean, not quality tourists.

I want to wear one in solidarity.

Consider if thousands of people started wearing them, the entire meaning would be changed. Business opportunity, anyone?

Edited August 11, 2007 by Jingthing

[Pakboong]

I have heard it said by a Thai more than once that a quality tourist is one who doesn't try to move in next door with his hooker girlfriend/boyfriend.

[BAF]

- money spent say in sex tourism encourages sectors of the economy to develop which are like a cancer; as anyone with a brain can see the money going into the sex industry in Thailand feeds a lot of cash into a money spiral including drugs, booze, gambling and other vice; much of the money does not go into economically viable projects at all - YES it is a necessary part of any country's economy, but overreliance on this is part of the reason that Isaan is now a total mess -by earning relatively easy money many people in that region have not developed any other skills, leaving them working as service providers on their backs, meea farang or similar, and not forcing the region to develop areas of core competence of greater value. Tourism and the sex industry are a nice crutch, but the longer one leans on it, the more reliant one becomes on it. And of course, the negative impact on the family tourism market is part of that mutually exclusive issue; that's merely marketing 101; basic market segmentation

I tought it was an ascertained fact here on ThaiVisa that sextourism is an almost insignificant part of the tourism in its entirety and certainly of the whole of the Thai economy (despite what Thai official stats themselves say...).

And weren't you yourself one of those saying that foreigners overestimate themselves and their impact on Thailand, its economy and its society? So, image when we are talking about just a supposedly minor subset (sextourists) of those same foreigners... no?

Now you are saying that sextourists and sexpats have deeply influenced Thailand's bigger region and Thailand's economy is heavily influenced by its effects...

P.S. "money spent say in sex tourism encourages sectors of the economy to develop which are like a cancer" the sex industry catering to foreigners is but a small part of the whole Thailand's sex industry... The rest of your "analisys" is based on the same level of knowledge shown here.

[BAF]

To say that Australia and NZ try to attract all classes of tourist is pure hogwash. If you look at it objectively, Australia have an even more cold hearted and business like in its approach to tourism than Thailand.

[...]

Australia's favourite targets are the asian package tourist, the family, the back packer (spend lots and lots these guys) and the well off retiree.

So who exactly are the ones Australia is keeping away and how are they keeping them away?

I wish Thailand had the same "cold hearted and business like approach to tourism" (and immigration laws!) as Australia!!!!

And Australian "cold hearted and business like" ETA visas would be another MAJOR welcome improvement for Thailand as well! Just imagine being able to instantly get ONLINE and without having to submit your passport (and visiting twice a Thai embassy/consulate) a 90 days Thai tourist visa for 530 Baht (or free through a travel agency)!!

We can only dream that one day Thailand will become as "cold hearted and business like" as Australia...

P.S. I wonder how do you define a scheme (almost unique in the world) such as the Thai ELITE Card? Is it Australian inspired?

[capaotung]

I just hope that we don't get too many. The sustainable number is probably 10m. That is enough for now.<br />

Agree! Far too many tourists are coming here already! Edited August 13, 2007 by capaotung

[mellow1]

- money spent say in sex tourism encourages sectors of the economy to develop which are like a cancer; as anyone with a brain can see the money going into the sex industry in Thailand feeds a lot of cash into a money spiral including drugs, booze, gambling and other vice; much of the money does not go into economically viable projects at all - YES it is a necessary part of any country's economy, but overreliance on this is part of the reason that Isaan is now a total mess -by earning relatively easy money many people in that region have not developed any other skills, leaving them working as service providers on their backs, meea farang or similar, and not forcing the region to develop areas of core competence of greater value. Tourism and the sex industry are a nice crutch, but the longer one leans on it, the more reliant one becomes on it. And of course, the negative impact on the family tourism market is part of that mutually exclusive issue; that's merely marketing 101; basic market segmentation

So,when are they going to clean up this mess?It's against the law,not to mention how it affects peoples moral character,especially the young.

[steveromagnino]

I tought it was an ascertained fact here on ThaiVisa that sextourism is an almost insignificant part of the tourism in its entirety and certainly of the whole of the Thai economy (despite what Thai official stats themselves say...).

Now you are saying that sextourists and sexpats have deeply influenced Thailand's bigger region and Thailand's economy is heavily influenced by its effects...

P.S. "money spent say in sex tourism encourages sectors of the economy to develop which are like a cancer" the sex industry catering to foreigners is but a small part of the whole Thailand's sex industry... The rest of your "analisys" is based on the same level of knowledge shown here.

Please cut and paste my exact quote that says 'deeply influenced' and 'heavily influenced'. Learn to read, then learn how to summarise and quote. Feel free to keep putting words into my mouth BAF, it seems to occur simultaneously when you have your foot in yours.

A lot of cash is relative to the overall country; tourism is documented to be significantly less than 10% of GDP, and yes, sex tourism is a minor subset of that.

The sex industry for you might be Thailand's biggest attraction. For many Thai people, it is not somethign they wish to see or have, and many would love it if it was a whole lot smaller - being reasonable that it is inevitable in any country. However, just as many NZ business people would love to see the govt lower the tax rate, just because some people want something means nothing; lobbying and persuading the people in charge is a lot harder. Even the TAT has little control over the sex industry other than in who they choose to market to. Yes, the tourist side of it is less than half of the total industry; right now we are debating about quality tourists, not the sex industry in general. I'd love to see the entire industry wiped out; and that is easiest done through controlling demand, not supply.

Starting with tourists is a fair bit easier, because there is a door letting them in; a least lets have some basic controls on who we let in through the door.

Mellow -

How to clean it up in its entirety? NZ gave up and legalised. That will not happen here. hel_l, Chang couldn't even list here. That is a really tough question, not specifically related to tourism.

I stand by my estimate; at least 70% of the tourists coming now have no/minimal connection or interest in Thailand's sex industry. Just adding up the women and children gets up to near 60%. Even BAF admitted that were he allowed to stay in Thailand, that he has little interest in that industry now (correct me if I understood you wrong BAF) as he is now married. So add another 1 to that number

Edited August 13, 2007 by steveromagnino

[soundman]

The sex industry for you might be Thailand's biggest attraction. For many Thai people, it is not somethign they wish to see or have, and many would love it if it was a whole lot smaller - being reasonable that it is inevitable in any country. However, just as many NZ business people would love to see the govt lower the tax rate, just because some people want something means nothing; lobbying and persuading the people in charge is a lot harder. Even the TAT has little control over the sex industry other than in who they choose to market to. Yes, the tourist side of it is less than half of the total industry; right now we are debating about quality tourists, not the sex industry in general. I'd love to see the entire industry wiped out; and that is easiest done through controlling demand, not supply.

I was under the impression that 95% or more of the "Thai sex industry" caters to Thai people and not to "farang & asian" tourists. And given those sort of numbers any impact on the overall numbers by reducing the amount of tourists that come to Thailand for sex would be like a drop of piss in the ocean.

Cheers.

[steveromagnino]

The sex industry for you might be Thailand's biggest attraction. For many Thai people, it is not somethign they wish to see or have, and many would love it if it was a whole lot smaller - being reasonable that it is inevitable in any country. However, just as many NZ business people would love to see the govt lower the tax rate, just because some people want something means nothing; lobbying and persuading the people in charge is a lot harder. Even the TAT has little control over the sex industry other than in who they choose to market to. Yes, the tourist side of it is less than half of the total industry; right now we are debating about quality tourists, not the sex industry in general. I'd love to see the entire industry wiped out; and that is easiest done through controlling demand, not supply.

I was under the impression that 95% or more of the "Thai sex industry" caters to Thai people and not to "farang & asian" tourists. And given those sort of numbers any impact on the overall numbers by reducing the amount of tourists that come to Thailand for sex would be like a drop of piss in the ocean.

Cheers.

That was from a study when tourism was less than 1/2 of what it is now, and I suspect was a little under estimated even back then. I'd say it is more like 80-90% local, 10-20% foreign. But in Bangkok, there are virtually no parts of the industry from the mid level up that are for Thais that foreigners aren't going to now.

The eyesores like Pattaya, Patpong, Bangla, NEP are most definitely foreigner dominated, and most of the time we watch some junk on TV about Thailand, it is a showcase of the delights of pattaya/patpong.

Tourism is marketing; why market yourself as the world's brothel, when you have golf, temples, family activities, biking, sailing, diving, dining, sightseeing, culture, shopping, spas, hotels, conventions, etc?

It isn't about reducing the number of tourists, just about appealing more to the higher quality tourists, rather than focusing on keeping the Thermae in business.

After the SARS and tsunami, regular tourism dived. One area that did not was medical tourism - that has grown in leaps and bounds year on year EVERY year on year for the last 6. THIS is an example of quality tourism; if the TAT has 1b baht to spend, then I say focus on more medical tourists, conventions, east european families, Scandanavian retirees and short stay Indians, Middle Easterners and Japanese golfers.

Sure there is some sex tourism in there, but all these groups come for reasons other than just trying to score scanks at Nana. And they spend. A lot. If this group was more like 80% of the total arrivals rather than the current (total guess here) 50%, then the total number of tourist arrivals could stay the same while the revenue to the country would increase.

Of course, being honest, there was a load of drivel in that press release as well. I doubt most of it has any intention of becoming policy.

I'm baffled why anyone would want to just admit defeat and open the borders to gangsters, pedophiles and morons, just because 'cheap sex is the only attraction Thailand has?' I cannot think of a single friend, even the ones that do enjoy the sex industry from time to time, that have that as their sole criteria for living here....

You are dead right, the biggest impact on the sex industry would be changing local attitudes to reduce demand. I suspect demand in Bangkok at least, is falling, and is getting increasingly regulated. But, yeah, 80-90% of the sex industry is in the hands of Thais, and not foreigners.

Edited August 13, 2007 by steveromagnino

[A_Traveller]

One should recall that it was TAT themselves who spent money and effort promoting Thailand as a 'singles' {primarily men} destination for at least 10 years with another 5 on the 'wink wink' basis. Indeed until the Amazing Thailand campaign, there was little effort to remove the image. Even then the problem of using sex {as in the suitably coy demure draped females in some of TAT recent efforts} as a sales aid is still not addressed.

Regards

/edit PS Wasn't it a Japanese spokesman who generated such a furore by suggested the key attractions of Thailand was golf & sex. +typo = sales//

Edited August 13, 2007 by A_Traveller

[chinthee]

Do you all know what Bangkok Thai women say Thai men call Ratchada road? "Heaven Road." They do so disparagingly because they don't like their husbands and boyfriends frequenting the many large palaces of ill repute there. Thai-Thai sex tourism is quieter and less visible than farang-Thai sex tourism. But, they all know it's there.

I guess this doesn't count as sex tourism because it isn't visible enough?

[steveromagnino]

One should recall that it was TAT themselves who spent money and effort promoting Thailand as a 'singles' {primarily men} destination for at least 10 years with another 5 on the 'wink wink' basis. Indeed until the Amazing Thailand campaign, there was little effort to remove the image.

Exactly. And the slum of lower Sukhumvit, most of Pattaya and a large chunk of Patong are the result. Time for a change of angle.

I am amazed there is any debate about this; the whore monger types should be delighted - less sex tourists means more skanks for them. Maybe being a whoremonger is like being in Amway...you feel the need to tell everyone you know about what a great opportunity this is.

[chinthee]

One should recall that it was TAT themselves who spent money and effort promoting Thailand as a 'singles' {primarily men} destination for at least 10 years with another 5 on the 'wink wink' basis. Indeed until the Amazing Thailand campaign, there was little effort to remove the image.

Exactly. And the slum of lower Sukhumvit, most of Pattaya and a large chunk of Patong are the result. Time for a change of angle.

I am amazed there is any debate about this; the whore monger types should be delighted - less sex tourists means more skanks for them. Maybe being a whoremonger is like being in Amway...you feel the need to tell everyone you know about what a great opportunity this is.

Now, that's funny. This thread was getting a little tense. Steve, you're doing a good job of articulating reasons for the quality tourism angle, but nobody's going to shutter NEP, Patpong, Pattaya et al., and you know it.

[A_Traveller]

Just to add to the above here's a link to an article from 2005 in Prospect magazine.

edit /It's interesting to note that it's the only one by the author which doesn't require a subscription.//

Regards

Prospect Article Alex Renton

Edited August 13, 2007 by A_Traveller

[uptou]

in my opinion,pay for play is sort of embedded in thai culture.i dont think quality tourists are going to change that.this is the land of abit on the side,casual sex with no strings attached,a haircut with extras.as long as the man is providing for the family,the wife will turn a blind eye to it.i'm not knocking thailand,its why so many western men come here.

[mellow1]

Sex"Tourism" happens in other countries in the world, I believe.Either legalize it, or eradicate it,but don't be hypocritical about it,or show the world you cannot, or will not enforce your own laws,in such a blatant manner.Don't blame your shortcomings on tourists.

Now should it be legal, and concentrated in certain areas,it should be easier to control,and manage.I don't personally see anything wrong with it.If that's what a certain crowd wants,its legal, let them have it.Either way,you are going to get big spenders,as well as the budget minded.The people who are shocked at this, should stay away from such an environment,like they would in their own country.

[Ulysses G.]

I cannot think of a single friend, even the ones that do enjoy the sex industry from time to time, that have that as their sole criteria for living here....

Either you have NO friends at all, or the ones that you do are LIARS.

[steveromagnino]

I cannot think of a single friend, even the ones that do enjoy the sex industry from time to time, that have that as their sole criteria for living here....

Either you have NO friends at all, or the ones that you do are LIARS.

Ulysses, I have Bendix and BAF as my best pals :-)

you are seriously saying the ONLY reason for living here is the sex industry?

I am all up for a trip to Resort from time to time, and I don't mind taking various friends to Patpong occasionally when requested, but for most of them it is something to do (or not) for like a couple of hours out of a 14 day trip, or the odd bit of, how you say, 'head relief'.

I swear that I cannot think of a single friend that would move/leave/not visit anymore if the sex industry wasn't here tomorrow; mind you being how young and hansum me and my pal(s) are, it might be that we are able to pull tail in any city we go yo yo yo without opening our wallets.

And that's not counting all the women friends.

Wezzcyde aiiiiiiiiiight.

[kat]

in my opinion,pay for play is sort of embedded in thai culture.i dont think quality tourists are going to change that.this is the land of abit on the side,casual sex with no strings attached,a haircut with extras.as long as the man is providing for the family,the wife will turn a blind eye to it.i'm not knocking thailand,its why so many western men come here.

You are right. The tourism industry can configure and change all it wants, but the culture has not, and pay for play has simply shifted from bar girls and rental girlfriends to rented wives - which isn't new, just newly ahead.

*It is no longer necessary for tourists of whatever persuasion to go to a bar to find pay for play; they will find him. Like all good entrepreneurs, they have simply shifted with the market and cut out the middle men.

I cannot think of a single friend, even the ones that do enjoy the sex industry from time to time, that have that as their sole criteria for living here....

Either you have NO friends at all, or the ones that you do are LIARS.

Ulysses, I have Bendix and BAF as my best pals :-)

you are seriously saying the ONLY reason for living here is the sex industry?

I am all up for a trip to Resort from time to time, and I don't mind taking various friends to Patpong occasionally when requested, but for most of them it is something to do (or not) for like a couple of hours out of a 14 day trip, or the odd bit of, how you say, 'head relief'.

I swear that I cannot think of a single friend that would move/leave/not visit anymore if the sex industry wasn't here tomorrow; mind you being how young and hansum me and my pal(s) are, it might be that we are able to pull tail in any city we go yo yo yo without opening our wallets.

And that's not counting all the women friends.

Wezzcyde aiiiiiiiiiight.

How interesting. Stevero has also sworn on occasion that all of his Thai friends were completely faithful to their girlfriend/wives. This is why arguments that rest solely on your word aren't really much of an argument.

Edited August 13, 2007 by kat

[tijnebijn]

One should recall that it was TAT themselves who spent money and effort promoting Thailand as a 'singles' {primarily men} destination for at least 10 years with another 5 on the 'wink wink' basis. Indeed until the Amazing Thailand campaign, there was little effort to remove the image.

Exactly. And the slum of lower Sukhumvit, most of Pattaya and a large chunk of Patong are the result. Time for a change of angle.

I am amazed there is any debate about this; the whore monger types should be delighted - less sex tourists means more skanks for them. Maybe being a whoremonger is like being in Amway...you feel the need to tell everyone you know about what a great opportunity this is.

thats a real good one Steve.

[Ulysses G.]

you are seriously saying the ONLY reason for living here is the sex industry?

Not the sex-industry in particular, but easy women - hookers or women that are desperate for a foreign man to support them.

There are lots of other reasons to be here, but most men are here for female attention of some sort - whether they admit it, or not. All I can say is that when I first moved here about 20 years ago, every single man that you met would admit that they came here for sex and that the reason they stuck around was because of all the female attention they recieved even when they had their fill of the sex industry (if they were not gay).

In the last few years, it has become very stylish to deny it and start raving about how interested one is the culture and learning the Thai language, but - other than a few unusual men - it is mostly a crock of sh*te. We ALL think with our ****s!

Edited August 13, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[soundman]

you are seriously saying the ONLY reason for living here is the sex industry?

Not the sex-industry in particular, but easy women - hookers or women that are desperate for a foreign man to support them.

There are lots of other reasons to be here, but most men are here for female attention of some sort - whether they admit it, or not. All I can say is that when I first moved here about 20 years ago, every single man that you met would admit that they came here for sex and that the reason they stuck around was because of all the female attention they recieved even when they had their fill of the sex industry (if they were not gay).

In the last few years, it has become very stylish to deny it and start raving about how interested one is the culture and learning the Thai language, but - other than a few unusual men - it is mostly a crock of sh*te. We ALL think with our ****s!

Brave post UG.

Probably not far from the truth for many expats. However, things change, getting married, kids etc & the "night-life" scene, whilst it is still there and used on limited basis, becomes far less important.

Cheers,

Soundman.