Israel Pushes for Full Gaza Occupation Amid Aid Concerns and Diplomatic Tensions

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, JAG said:

Chomper, you are (as so often) ignoring some brutally simple facts.

 

Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. Hamas launched attacks (rockets, bombs and raids) against Israel virtually continually, culminating in the slaughter of October 2023. That is why Israel has now effectively reoccupied Gaza.

 

Occupying forces have responsibilities under various conventions; if there is a widespread hostile armed resistance movement along the lines of Hamas, then Israel is simply unable to meet those responsibilities.

 

This is without considering the widely witnessed and reported fact that Hamas takes foreign aid and diverts it to it's fighters.

I’m not ‘ignoring’ the history of the conflict, rather it is not relevant to my comment. However, I now note that all of a sudden events prior to the heinous terrorist attack by Hamas suddenly get brought up were doing so was ‘energetically opposed’ up until now.

 

Back to my comment:

 

Israel has stated an intent to permanently occupy Gaza, with some outline of their intended actions while there.

 

My post does not address Israel’s stated justification for doing so, rather the significance of such an occupation on the applicability of international law and the likely response from the population of Gaza.

wrt to your comment:

 

“Occupying forces have responsibilities under various conventions; if there is a widespread hostile armed resistance movement along the lines of Hamas, then Israel is simply unable to meet those responsibilities.”

 

Those responsibilities under international law are a result of occupation, if, as you appear to argue, Israel can’t meet those obligations then they can avoid the obligations by not occupying the territory.

 

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m not ‘ignoring’ the history of the conflict, rather it is not relevant to my comment. However, I now note that all of a sudden events prior to the heinous terrorist attack by Hamas suddenly get brought up were doing so was ‘energetically opposed’ up until now.

 

Back to my comment:

 

Israel has stated an intent to permanently occupy Gaza, with some outline of their intended actions while there.

 

My post does not address Israel’s stated justification for doing so, rather the significance of such an occupation on the applicability of international law and the likely response from the population of Gaza.

wrt to your comment:

 

“Occupying forces have responsibilities under various conventions; if there is a widespread hostile armed resistance movement along the lines of Hamas, then Israel is simply unable to meet those responsibilities.”

 

Those responsibilities under international law are a result of occupation, if, as you appear to argue, Israel can’t meet those obligations then they can avoid the obligations by not occupying the territory.

 

Israel has stated an intent, because Hamas is illegally holding hostages. The war would stop today if Hamas released the hostages and laid down their arms.

 

Calling for anything else is supporting a conditional release of the hostages. Which is exactly what the terrorists want.

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I wasn’t suggesting you imagine living under Hamas.

 

Have a read of the out of context quote you posted from my comment, see if you can figure out what I was actually saying, not what you imagine I had said 

 

  If I lived under Hamas rule and a foreign military force came and removed them from power , I would support that foreign military force .

   That is what I meant .

Would you prefer to live under Hamas rule or would you support them being removed from power ?

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

Free the hostages and disarm and it will end; but freeing the hostages is not something that ever seems to concern you, because I have never seen you call for it.  

 

 

Thank you for quoting me out of context. 

You did read the OP?

 

If so, perhaps you missed this bit:

 

“Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu’s government believes this approach will exert maximum pressure on Hamas by holding ground permanently and pushing Gaza’s population further south.”

 

What do you think ‘holding ground permanently’ means?

 

We’ll deal with ‘pushing Gaza’s population further south’ if and when Israel implement that particular breach of international law wrt to forcefully displacing the civilian citizens of occupied territories.

[Social Media]

Second troll post removed @Jeff the Chef next time will earn you some time to read the rules

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  If I lived under Hamas rule and a foreign military force came and removed them from power , I would support that foreign military force .

   That is what I meant .

Would you prefer to live under Hamas rule or would you support them being removed from power ?

 

Nick, I’m not in the least bit interest in your strawman arguments, deal with the comments I have made not the comments you imagine I have made.

 

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Thank you for quoting me out of context. 

You did read the OP?

 

If so, perhaps you missed this bit:

 

“Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu’s government believes this approach will exert maximum pressure on Hamas by holding ground permanently and pushing Gaza’s population further south.”

 

What do you think ‘holding ground permanently’ means?

 

We’ll deal with ‘pushing Gaza’s population further south’ if and when Israel implement that particular breach of international law wrt to forcefully displacing the civilian citizens of occupied territories.

Perhaps you missed the bit where Hamas refused to release the hostages and so have forced this on their own people and the only way now is for Israel to separate Hamas from the civilians so they can deal with them and eliminate them.

[Nick Carter icp]

20 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

Nick, I’m not in the least bit interest in your strawman arguments, deal with the comments I have made not the comments you imagine I have made.

 

 

   You did ask me  my reaction about what I would do if a foreign military force took power in my Country (and I answered , so NOT a strawman argument  or an imaginary comment ).

   In the context of this story, we are talking about Israel and Hamas .

If I were being ruled by Hamas , I would support a foreign power removing Hamas .

  Same question to you : If you were being ruled by Hamas, would you support their removal from power ?

Would you side with Hamas or would you oppose Hamas ?

[ChicagoExpat]

20 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I wasn’t suggesting you imagine living under Hamas.

 

Have a read of the out of context quote you posted from my comment, see if you can figure out what I was actually saying, not what you imagine I had said 

We get it, you were talking about Israel occupying Gaza.  So, per your theory, when Israel occupied a very small corner of Gaza, Hamas was a natural, understandable response to foreign occupation.

 

For your theory, then, to hold any water at all, you need to explain why Hamas continued to exist after 2005, and not only exist, relentlessly attack Israel even after it got what it wanted.  Go for it.  Because what's obvious to the rest of us is that Hamas was, is, and always will be a terrorist group that doesn't exist to provide liberation to Gazans but to kill as many Jews as possible in the most horrific ways as possible.

 

And no one could live next door to that.

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

We get it, you were talking about Israel occupying Gaza.  So, per your theory, when Israel occupied a very small corner of Gaza, Hamas was a natural, understandable response to foreign occupation.

 

For your theory, then, to hold any water at all, you need to explain why Hamas continued to exist after 2005, and not only exist, relentlessly attack Israel even after it got what it wanted.  Go for it.  Because what's obvious to the rest of us is that Hamas was, is, and always will be a terrorist group that doesn't exist to provide liberation to Gazans but to kill as many Jews as possible in the most horrific ways as possible.

 

And no one could live next door to that.

I’m sorry you draw conclusions from my comment about the proposed occupation (which is not a theory) then you ask me to defend the conclusions you yourself drew?

 

I don’t think I’ll bother, those are your conclusions feel free to defend them yourself.

 

 

[coolcarer]

36 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m sorry you draw conclusions from my comment about the proposed occupation (which is not a theory) then you ask me to defend the conclusions you yourself drew?

 

I don’t think I’ll bother, those are your conclusions feel free to defend them yourself.

 

 

Why has this plan by Israel been implemented? Wait don't tell me, you'd rather not discuss those facts. 

 

Hamas’s top negotiator in the ceasefire and hostage talks said despite suing for an end to the war, the group would continue to pursue Israel’s destruction.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-leader-touts-ceasefire-as-a-defeat-for-israel-while-hailing-oct-7-atrocities/

 

Carry on the good work pointing out Israels commitments under the Geneva Convention. Hamas would be proud of you.

[ChicagoExpat]

35 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m sorry you draw conclusions from my comment about the proposed occupation (which is not a theory) then you ask me to defend the conclusions you yourself drew?

 

I don’t think I’ll bother, those are your conclusions feel free to defend them yourself.

 

 

Well, if I'm wrong, set me straight and answer the question.  I truly thought that's what you meant.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   You did ask me  my reaction about what I would do if a foreign military force took power in my Country (and I answered , so NOT a strawman argument  or an imaginary comment ).

   In the context of this story, we are talking about Israel and Hamas .

If I were being ruled by Hamas , I would support a foreign power removing Hamas .

  Same question to you : If you were being ruled by Hamas, would you support their removal from power ?

Would you side with Hamas or would you oppose Hamas ?

Nick, I think we both agree Hamas are a brutal terrorist organization with an indisputable history of committing unquestionably heinous crimes.

 

Hamas also have a history of visiting their brutality on the people of Gaza.

 

History tells us that the number of people who have the courage to standup to or oppose brutal totalitarian regimes is very very small. 

 

Most people under such brutal regimes keep their head down for their own personal safety and that of their families.
 

I don’t sit behind my keyboard imagining I would be one of those very very small number of people. I might hope would be but I don’t know, I don’t think anyone knows how they would act under such circumstances.

 

I have immense respect and admiration for those who in the real world do stand up to brutal totalitarian regimes they are oppressed under, sadly they are few and fewer still survive their stand.

Regardless, none of that obviates the comments I have made. 

[Nick Carter icp]

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Nick, I think we both agree Hamas are a brutal terrorist organization with an indisputable history of committing unquestionably heinous crimes.

 

Hamas also have a history of visiting their brutality on the people of Gaza.

 

History tells us that the number of people who have the courage to standup to or oppose brutal totalitarian regimes is very very small. 

 

Most people under such brutal regimes keep their head down for their own personal safety and that of their families.
 

I don’t sit behind my keyboard imagining I would be one of those very very small number of people. I might hope would be but I don’t know, I don’t think anyone knows how they would act under such circumstances.

 

I have immense respect and admiration for those who in the real world do stand up to brutal totalitarian regimes they are oppressed under, sadly they are few and fewer still survive their stand.

Regardless, none of that obviates the comments I have made. 

 

   The IDF will be going into Gaza to remove Hamas from power 

[Bkk Brian]

26 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Nick, I think we both agree Hamas are a brutal terrorist organization with an indisputable history of committing unquestionably heinous crimes.

 

Hamas also have a history of visiting their brutality on the people of Gaza.

 

History tells us that the number of people who have the courage to standup to or oppose brutal totalitarian regimes is very very small. 

 

Most people under such brutal regimes keep their head down for their own personal safety and that of their families.
 

I don’t sit behind my keyboard imagining I would be one of those very very small number of people. I might hope would be but I don’t know, I don’t think anyone knows how they would act under such circumstances.

 

I have immense respect and admiration for those who in the real world do stand up to brutal totalitarian regimes they are oppressed under, sadly they are few and fewer still survive their stand.

Regardless, none of that obviates the comments I have made. 

History tells us that the number of people who have the courage to standup to or oppose brutal totalitarian regimes is very very small.

 

Not the history in Gaza, you really don't know much about this war against terrorism do you

 

Gaza: Hamas releases statement labelling the demonstrators “collaborators” and “traitors”

Mass protests against Hamas in Gaza have entered their forth day, as demonstrators continue to voice their frustrations with the militant group. 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1356201-gaza-hamas-releases-statement-labelling-the-demonstrators-“collaborators”-and-“traitors”

 

New massive anti-Hamas demonstrations in northern Gaza are demanding an end to the war that the terror group started. They want Hamas to step down and "get out" - Men, women, the elderly, children, and wounded folks came out, desperate to make their voices heard!

 

[swerve]

Sounds like a good Israeli plan.  

[Eloquent pilgrim]

 

I hope that Israel does everything it needs to do to release the hostages that are being held by the Palestinian terrorists of Hamas and the Palestinian members of the UN aid agency UNRWA. Held now for more than eighteen months; and I hope it does all it needs to do to dismantle Hamas.

 

I stand 100% unequivocally with Israel.

I stand agains the  barbaric Palestinian terrorists of Hamas.

I stand against the Palestinian terrorists of UNRWA.

I stand against Hezbollah.

I stand against the Houthis.

I stand against the fraudulent antisemitic UN.

I stand against terrorism.

I stand with the USA.

I stand with the UK.

God bless Israel.

 

 

 

[JAG]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m not ‘ignoring’ the history of the conflict, rather it is not relevant to my comment. However, I now note that all of a sudden events prior to the heinous terrorist attack by Hamas suddenly get brought up were doing so was ‘energetically opposed’ up until now.

 

Back to my comment:

 

Israel has stated an intent to permanently occupy Gaza, with some outline of their intended actions while there.

 

My post does not address Israel’s stated justification for doing so, rather the significance of such an occupation on the applicability of international law and the likely response from the population of Gaza.

wrt to your comment:

 

“Occupying forces have responsibilities under various conventions; if there is a widespread hostile armed resistance movement along the lines of Hamas, then Israel is simply unable to meet those responsibilities.”

 

Those responsibilities under international law are a result of occupation, if, as you appear to argue, Israel can’t meet those obligations then they can avoid the obligations by not occupying the territory.

 

Go and read "article 23" - it removes the obligation to any occupying power if the supplies are diverted, misappropriated or otherwise under control of the "resistance ". That is exactly what Hamas are doing. Understanding that, along with understanding what initiated Israel's moves against Hamas and their aims in Gaza (which astonishingly you regard as not relevant!) may help you to reassess your muddled thinking.

[Evil Penevil]

@Eloquent pilgrim  Well put!   

 

2 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

I stand 100% unequivocally with Israel.

I stand agains the  barbaric Palestinian terrorists of Hamas.

 

Me, too!  The Jews of Israel literally have they backs against the sea.  They are fighting for their own survival and the survival of Israel, the Jewish homeland and the world's only Jewish-majority nation.  Israelis want nothing more than to live in peace, but have never had that chance due to the centuries-old antisemitism of Muslim Arabs,  It's only the military might of the IDF that protects them.  Standing with Israel is the best way to stand against antisemitism and another Holocaust.

[JAG]

1 hour ago, Evil Penevil said:

@Eloquent pilgrim  Well put!   

 

 

Me, too!  The Jews of Israel literally have they backs against the sea.  They are fighting for their own survival and the survival of Israel, the Jewish homeland and the world's only Jewish-majority nation.  Israelis want nothing more than to live in peace, but have never had that chance due to the centuries-old antisemitism of Muslim Arabs,  It's only the military might of the IDF that protects them.  Standing with Israel is the best way to stand against antisemitism and another Holocaust.

I might add, the stated aim of HAMAS, echoed by the chants of those who protest in Western Countries in support of them, are to conduct another Holocaust. The savage slaughter, infanticide, rapes and hostage taking of October 7th 2023, conducted with relished and boastful cruelty are a foretaste of what is in store for the entire population of Israel if HAMAS are ever allowed to gain the upper hand.