Revenue Department to amend tax on foreign income remittance

[Conno]

5 hours ago, CallumWK said:

 

That is also how I understand it, but I may be wrong.

 

If the crypto already was in the Thai exchange, your capital gains are tax free, but remitting them and exchange right away is a different story.

 

I'm happy to be corrected

No disrespect intended but I'm assuming you are not into crypto going by what you said above. Or maybe you are a newbee?  Cool, let me try and clear things up for you. 

 

Firstly crypto is borderless, it is neither in Thailand or any other jurisdiction, it is in cyberspace on a blockchain. Nowhere and everywhere at the same time if you will. You are looking at it from a national fiat currency perspective which it most certainly isn't.  It is still very early days regarding this announcement but on face value it is very good news indeed for crypto holders. I'm assuming the whole idea of this change is to encourage crypto people and their wealth to move to Thailand, Dubai style if you wish. Therefore if the tokens were originally acquired outside of Thailand, but the holder is now living in Thailand [or wishes to move here due to this favorable change] and they then transfers their self custody tokens to a Thailand SEC approved exchange for cashing out into Baht, this will be more than welcome and probably the very reason behind the move in the first place. Even if this is now exempt from tax on the actual sale event, the Baht when spent locally will help their revenue targets indirectly [VAT] 

 

Regarding your other comment about 'Was already on a Thai exchange' this is also incorrect. People who fully understand crypto do not leave coins on an exchange but rather they self custody. So in other words it is irrelevant if you had tokens already sitting in a Thai exchange or not, that's not how it works. For example, I have only ever used approved Thai exchanges since 2018 and I have left zero coins on the exchange and self custody as you should. This is actually the whole point of crypto, you retain control of your own wealth, no 3rd party liability, permissionless. In addition to saying that I have never sold a single Satoshi and only accumulated and held, because I was actually half hoping half expecting something like this to happen. It makes perfect sense for Thailand to do this, if there doesn't turn out to be some catch in the small print. 

 

Personally speaking I think the powers that be are going to be very happy with how this works out, I also have a feeling the results could prove to be so beneficial to Thailands economy over the next 5 years that there is a very good chance they may decide not to kill this policy come December 2029. I don't intend to get into a debate with no-coiners but Bitcoin is going to $1m per coin and more, it is now just a matter of when, not if. Global adoption and acceptance is here, whether some still resist that idea or not. 

[Conno]

4 hours ago, yozah said:

An unsold asset is not income—it’s still just capital. So bring your long term coins to thai exchange and sell for 0 tax.  Any way the amendment that this thread is about should make this point mostly moot anyway.

Agreed, if the remitted funds tax reversal is eventually given the official stamp of approval, it will be a moot point. 

[CallumWK]

4 hours ago, Conno said:

Therefore if the tokens were originally acquired outside of Thailand, but the holder is now living in Thailand [or wishes to move here due to this favorable change] and they then transfers their self custody tokens to a Thailand SEC approved exchange for cashing out into Baht, this will be more than welcome and probably the very reason behind the move in the first place. Even if this is now exempt from tax on the actual sale event, the Baht when spent locally will help their revenue targets indirectly [VAT] 

 

I indeed have no knowledge at all about crypto.

 

The above quote I still don't understand..

 

I live in Thailand, and own no crypto, and my money is outside Thailand.

 

Now suppose I exchange my foreign money to crypto today, while I live in Thailand, that mean I acquired the tokens in Thailand (or at least while I was living in Thailand). Is that correct?

I then transfer them to a Thai crypto exchange and cash them out in Thai baht.

Will I pay no income taxes in that scenario?

 

Second question.

 

Suppose I exchange 50000 Euro into stable coin. Transfer them to a Thai crypto exchange, and immediately cash them out in Thai baht. All this in the minimum of time required to complete all these transactions. I assume that is a matter of hours only.

 

What will be my total cost, or how much baht will I receive.

 

As a comparison, if I do this using Wise right now, the below is the result.

 

[Yumthai]

9 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

I thought the beauty of cryto was its anonymity and ability to send to anyone, anywhere without need for banks or brokers.

You need to do more research. Traceability is inherent to crypto (except some specific coins like Monero).

 

Getting rid of middlemen and giving back its financial sovereignty to the individuals is the ideal outcome but, most probably, the global banking system will adapt is adapting and will be merged or co-exist with crypto.

 

10 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

Appears it would be classed as a remittance, and in this case the authorities would have good records of who and when and how much.  You can bring your crypto into via an exchange, but can you get it out without reporting cost basis and having withholding taken out?

Crypto is classified as "digital asset" in Thailand.

 

AFAIK assets or digital assets remittance does not trigger a tax event in Thailand (unless it is considered as a payment for work), only income remittance does.

 

Nor I read anywhere in the tax law that assets cost basis has to be reported or some Thai WHT be applied at remittance.

 

Capital gain tax event will be triggered when the imported asset is sold, using the asset purchasing price (be it from abroad).

 

[Yumthai]

4 hours ago, Conno said:

Firstly crypto is borderless, it is neither in Thailand or any other jurisdiction, it is in cyberspace on a blockchain. Nowhere and everywhere at the same time if you will. You are looking at it from a national fiat currency perspective which it most certainly isn't.  It is still very early days regarding this announcement but on face value it is very good news indeed for crypto holders. I'm assuming the whole idea of this change is to encourage crypto people and their wealth to move to Thailand, Dubai style if you wish. Therefore if the tokens were originally acquired outside of Thailand, but the holder is now living in Thailand [or wishes to move here due to this favorable change] and they then transfers their self custody tokens to a Thailand SEC approved exchange for cashing out into Baht, this will be more than welcome and probably the very reason behind the move in the first place. Even if this is now exempt from tax on the actual sale event, the Baht when spent locally will help their revenue targets indirectly [VAT] 

100% Agreed. 

Besides, Thai registered crypto exchanges will greatly benefit from these new crypto inflows. Transactions fees volume will substantially increase leading to more harvested corporate tax.

 

[quake]

Does anyone trust this lot anymore.

With the shenanigans over the last 2 years.

I don't now.

I'm going to wait one more year, before bringing in

any funds to Thailand.

The Hub of the Flip Flop. not to be trusted at present.

[Conno]

CallumWK

 

While I consider myself well versed in most things crypto, Thai tax is a completely different and complex animal. Look at the recent mess and resulting confusion in this regard over the past 2 years. So given that, I’m not going to get drawn into the nuances of will this be tax free or won’t it, as basically at the end of the day at this stage nobody knows for sure.

 

This 5 year tax break on crypto is very new and the devil will be in the detail, on face value it is looking good, but given this was only released out of the blue on June 17^th there is still so much that is unclear. I understand you are wanting simple answers to complex questions, but TIT after all.

 

For example we still don’t know if the amendments made in Sept 2023 to the foreign sourced fiat remittance rules are going to be completely reversed and rubber stamped. It is looking likely but lets see how things develop with both that and this new crypto announcement. You know how it is here in Thailand right, changes are always a slippery beast and are never clear from the get go.

 

Sorry if that seems a bit of a cop out, but as I said tax is a complex subject and every individuals circumstances are different. How the TRD will actually view your example is anyone’s guess at this stage. What we do know is that the overall aim of all this is clearly designed to encourage new money be injected into the Thai economy. As usual how that actually works in reality we will need to wait and see.

[redwood1]

5 hours ago, quake said:

Does anyone trust this lot anymore.

With the shenanigans over the last 2 years.

I don't now.

I'm going to wait one more year, before bringing in

any funds to Thailand.

The Hub of the Flip Flop. not to be trusted at present.

 

Ever since Tony came back and Miss Muffet became PM....

Corruption in Thailand is off the charts.....Corruption has always be part of Thailand but now its epidemic...

 

The Thai government does not deserve a single baht in taxes from any expat not now not ever...

 

They deserve NOTHING......ZIP......ZILCH.......

[ukrules]

25 minutes ago, Conno said:

This 5 year tax break on crypto is very new and the devil will be in the detail, on face value it is looking good, but given this was only released out of the blue on June 17^th there is still so much that is unclear. I understand you are wanting simple answers to complex questions, but TIT after all.

 

For example we still don’t know if the amendments made in Sept 2023 to the foreign sourced fiat remittance rules are going to be completely reversed and rubber stamped. It is looking likely but lets see how things develop with both that and this new crypto announcement. You know how it is here in Thailand right, changes are always a slippery beast and are never clear from the get go.

 

Both of these changes are not yet official and due to political changes in the ruling coalition there is a very real possibility of total government collapse in the coming weeks.

If it doesn't collapse then there may be a minority government and that changes things.

Best to wait and see, there's a lot going on right now.

[NoDisplayName]

16 hours ago, Yumthai said:

You remit an asset (watch, gold, stock,.. crypto) in Thailand, do you pay tax on remitted asset assessed value or when you sell the asset?

 

Dunno.  It's an asset.  I suppose a car and a watch are assets, and I may pay VAT when I bring them in.  If considered a cash asset, then wouldn't they come under remittance rules?  Would you be required to document cost basis of underlying funds used to purchase your HUBcoin, IF you file tax?   

 

I don't know the crypto laws here.  All I know is they can change at any moment on a whim.

[Yumthai]

24 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Best to wait and see, there's a lot going on right now.

 

Recent announced tax measures to incentive offshore money repatriation have been made on purpose: money is needed.

 

We are half-year, waiting tax exemptions formal approvals is not an option for the Thai government (and probably the next one).

 

Hopefully these announcements will suffice for most of the residents, except few legalists and "I want certainty" individuals, to bring back and enjoy in Thailand substantial offshore money.

[ukrules]

13 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

 

Recent announced tax measures to incentive offshore money repatriation have been made on purpose: money is needed.

 

We are half-year, waiting tax exemptions formal approvals is not an option for the Thai government (and probably the next one).

 

Hopefully these announcements will suffice for most of the residents, except few legalists and "I want certainty" individuals, to bring back and enjoy in Thailand substantial offshore money.

 

Yeah we all hope for low taxes and some of us take measures to ensure them.

But until the ink is dry nothing is official regardless of how much they need the money - if the current government ends then nothing is going to be completed - it will be all on hold so it most certainly is an option to wait.

 

If the government fails and is replaced with whatever's left of the move forward party - what do you think they policy is going to be on tax? It certainly won't be good

 

[dinga]

1 hour ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Dunno.  It's an asset.  I suppose a car and a watch are assets, and I may pay VAT when I bring them in.  If considered a cash asset, then wouldn't they come under remittance rules?  Would you be required to document cost basis of underlying funds used to purchase your HUBcoin, IF you file tax?   

 

I don't know the crypto laws here.  All I know is they can change at any moment on a whim.

Likewise, Crypto is a mystery to me.

 

As for 'solid, physical' assets (like a car and gold), they may be subject to Import Duties and VAT upon importation into Thailand.  As for the watch, perhaps wearing it when entering the Kingdom may work as personal effects.

 

I understand such items are regarded as moveable property, and are not subject to Income Tax upon sale in Thailand if they are privately sold (ie. not in a business activities).  

 

As for stocks/equities, if sold overseas the question is the tax treatment of the proceeds if remitted to the Kingdom.  I'm not aware of any ability to have stocks held via an overseas account transferred to a Thai Broker. 

 

 

   

[Yumthai]

4 hours ago, dinga said:

I'm not aware of any ability to have stocks held via an overseas account transferred to a Thai Broker. 

Transferring stocks from one broker to another is common practice.

It will trigger no taxable event in Thailand to transfer say 10 shares of Apple from a US Charles Schwab brokerage account to a Thai regulated broker.

[Yumthai]

5 hours ago, ukrules said:

Yeah we all hope for low taxes and some of us take measures to ensure them.

But until the ink is dry nothing is official regardless of how much they need the money - if the current government ends then nothing is going to be completed - it will be all on hold so it most certainly is an option to wait.

 

If the government fails and is replaced with whatever's left of the move forward party - what do you think they policy is going to be on tax? It certainly won't be good

 

We can endlessly discuss tax law & rules ever flip-flopping in Thailand.

 

The one and only relevant thing and that is factual: there was in the past barely no tax enforcement (audit + penalties) on foreign-sourced remittances, there is still none, and now Thai government strives hard to announce multiple tax exemptions showing their undeniable willingness to continue not taxing offshore remittances in the near future.

[JackGats]

26 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

Transferring stocks from one broker to another is common practice.

It will trigger no taxable event in Thailand to transfer say 10 shares of Apple from a US Charles Schwab brokerage account to a Thai regulated broker.

It is common practice within the same country, maybe also between two closely related countries (between Germany and Austria?). I doubt Thai brokers are equipped to deal with an international transfer or are even allowed to do so legally.

[Yumthai]

6 minutes ago, JackGats said:

It is common practice within the same country, maybe also between two closely related countries (between Germany and Austria?). I doubt Thai brokers are equipped to deal with an international transfer or are even allowed to do so legally.

 

Webull Thailand, Licensed and regulated by the Thai SEC, allows in/out stocks transfer so I guess it's not illegal and other Thai brokers should be able to do it too.

 

Webull Thailand allows users to transfer stocks both into and out of their accounts. To transfer shares to Webull, you'll need to initiate the transfer through the Webull app, selecting "Portfolio Transfer" and specifying the details of the broker you're transferring from. For transfers out of Webull, a $75 fee may apply. Webull also supports both ACH and wire transfers for deposits and withdrawals, with ACH transfers being fee-free.

 

[redwood1]

29 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

 

We can endlessly discuss tax law & rules ever flip-flopping in Thailand.

 

The one and only relevant thing and that is factual: there was in the past barely no tax enforcement (audit + penalties) on foreign-sourced remittances, there is still none, and now Thai government strives hard to announce multiple tax exemptions showing their undeniable willingness to continue not taxing offshore remittances in the near future.

 

They ( The Thais) had their chance to get the whole tax thing going....But to say they blew it is a obscene understatement..

 

What adjectives can be used?To describe the mess?....Disorganized,confused,pathetic, hopeless, train wreck,a epic disaster...etc

 

Point being...Any small momentum this tax ever had has been completely destroyed....And it can NEVER be regained...

 

Its finished...

[ukrules]

3 hours ago, redwood1 said:

They ( The Thais) had their chance to get the whole tax thing going....But to say they blew it is a obscene understatement..

 

If this Move Forward of whatever they're calling themselves ever get into power expect massive changes.

 

Think of them of a kind of Bernie Sanders type operation, they want all your money. I believe one of their stated goals was to start taxing all gains made on the stock exchange of Thailand (SEC).

They would inevitably fail quickly and massively of course but that won't stop them from doing it - it never does with these lefty types, look at what's happening in the UK - everyone with any money who's in a position to leave is leaving.