Farming In Chiang Mai

[eladblum]

This is kind an out of the blue, and will glad for some asistance.

i'm married to thai and want to buy land in chiang mai, stay there forever and make a living out of agriculture (fruits and vegetables).

is it realistic?

around how much the land in chiang mai area for this purpose will cost per 1 rai?

is it legal for me to do so?

[lannarebirth]

This is kind an out of the blue, and will glad for some asistance.

i'm married to thai and want to buy land in chiang mai, stay there forever and make a living out of agriculture (fruits and vegetables).

is it realistic?

around how much the land in chiang mai area for this purpose will cost per 1 rai?

is it legal for me to do so?

Farming is a prohibited occupation for foreigners (but you can likely work around that(. Foreigners may not own land in Thailand (though your wife can, and there may be other legal constructs acceptable to you. Farmland near Chiang Mai is not cheap (I don't know of any (titled land)for less than 200k/rai and it climbs from there) . If you're not dependent on the income, it can be a very nice avocation.

[Goshawk]

the amount of income question of course depends upon how much area you are farming, and what crop you are farming.. But if you trust your thai partner, business or otherwise, (business in their name, u just 'operate' behind the scenes) yes you can achieve sustainable living in Thailand very easily. Same applies for any simple busness in LOS really..

[registeredfalang]

20k out of the city [CM], you can get rice land for 100k-150k bhatt/rai, but whatever you farm, don't expect to get rich. both farmers and vendors get the smallest piece of the pie...it's the middlemen that get rich. that's true both here and in the west...unless you are one of the few really big agribusiness corps. like CP. but, if farming gives you pleasure, do it for that.

[lannarebirth]

20k out of the city [CM], you can get rice land for 100k-150k bhatt/rai, but whatever you farm, don't expect to get rich. both farmers and vendors get the smallest piece of the pie...it's the middlemen that get rich. that's true both here and in the west...unless you are one of the few really big agribusiness corps. like CP. but, if farming gives you pleasure, do it for that.

Hi registered falang,

Can you tell me where, within 20km of the CM city center, one can buy titled rice fields for 100k/rai? I'd like to buy it. Unless it's in Sankampaeng or Lamphun, which I still think would be impossible to find.

Edited August 12, 2007 by lannarebirth

[chownah]

20k out of the city [CM], you can get rice land for 100k-150k bhatt/rai, but whatever you farm, don't expect to get rich. both farmers and vendors get the smallest piece of the pie...it's the middlemen that get rich. that's true both here and in the west...unless you are one of the few really big agribusiness corps. like CP. but, if farming gives you pleasure, do it for that.

Hi registered falang,

Can you tell me where, within 20km of the CM city center, one can buy titled rice fields for 100k/rai? I'd like to buy it. Unless it's in Sankampaeng or Lamphun, which I still think would be impossible to find.

Just to satisfy my curiosity, if you found this land at 100k bhat per rai would you buy it with the idea that you have or could develop some agricultural business model that would be profitable....even when considering the opportunity cost of the land?

(Note: "opportunity cost" is not a common term so I'll explain...maybe you know its meaning but others might not. If you took the 100k baht required for one rai of land and invested it in some financial instrument of some other business or enterprise then it would yield a monthly or yearly return...this monthly or yearly return is the "opportunity cost" for the money invested in the one rai of land. For example, if I could invest 100k baht in a bond paying 5% then the yearly opportunity cost for one rai of land would be 5,000 baht (per year). This means that if I make a PROFIT of 5,001 baht in one year from one rai then from a business model point of view I must deduct the opportunity cost for the one rai of land (in this case 5,000 baht) because I would have made this much for doing nothing if I had invested differently...and thus my real profit is reduced to one baht.)

Chownah

[lannarebirth]

20k out of the city [CM], you can get rice land for 100k-150k bhatt/rai, but whatever you farm, don't expect to get rich. both farmers and vendors get the smallest piece of the pie...it's the middlemen that get rich. that's true both here and in the west...unless you are one of the few really big agribusiness corps. like CP. but, if farming gives you pleasure, do it for that.

Hi registered falang,

Can you tell me where, within 20km of the CM city center, one can buy titled rice fields for 100k/rai? I'd like to buy it. Unless it's in Sankampaeng or Lamphun, which I still think would be impossible to find.

Just to satisfy my curiosity, if you found this land at 100k bhat per rai would you buy it with the idea that you have or could develop some agricultural business model that would be profitable....even when considering the opportunity cost of the land?

(Note: "opportunity cost" is not a common term so I'll explain...maybe you know its meaning but others might not. If you took the 100k baht required for one rai of land and invested it in some financial instrument of some other business or enterprise then it would yield a monthly or yearly return...this monthly or yearly return is the "opportunity cost" for the money invested in the one rai of land. For example, if I could invest 100k baht in a bond paying 5% then the yearly opportunity cost for one rai of land would be 5,000 baht (per year). This means that if I make a PROFIT of 5,001 baht in one year from one rai then from a business model point of view I must deduct the opportunity cost for the one rai of land (in this case 5,000 baht) because I would have made this much for doing nothing if I had invested differently...and thus my real profit is reduced to one baht.)

Chownah

No I wouldn't chownah. I've never seen a single business in Thailand, whether it be farming or otherwise, that produced an adequate income when figuring on land costs. One simply has to own it already. If one has the capital, they can buy the land and if the business model is sound AND THEY ARE WILLING TO MAKE NO MONEY FOR AWHILE, then maybe they have a business that can grow. My interst is more in the land as investment, as land near Chiang Mai can range to well over 1 million /rai. I'm curious to see what 100k/rai buys.

[SAP]

Chownah

I see your point;

But alot of people buy land on speculation, hence the price will go up and many cases the land may double/triple or quadruple in ten years. Therefore oppurtunity cost does not become such a simple calculation, or even a negative calculation. But I do agree, you would probably want golden chickens laying golden eggs to buy farm land at 100K and actually make a profit from it.

If you were to move 100 km plus outside Chiang Mai you would start to find land for around 50k maybe even closer to 25K.

Incidentally I know of land of 1,000 rai in Nongkhai beside a river with Chanood papers for 25,000 bt/rai if anyone is interested, suitable for vege production, tree production. Has irrigation system too, maybe have to pay more for that.

SAP

[Gary A]

If you even want to break even farming in Thailand, you can't possibly pay more than 30,000 baht per rai. Even at that I doubt you will make any money. I bought a 10 rai plot for 180,000 about two years ago and another 9.5 rai plot a couple months ago for 190,000. This is decent flat land in Loei province. I have no idea what makes the Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai land so much more expensive.

[lannarebirth]

If you even want to break even farming in Thailand, you can't possibly pay more than 30,000 baht per rai. Even at that I doubt you will make any money. I bought a 10 rai plot for 180,000 about two years ago and another 9.5 rai plot a couple months ago for 190,000. This is decent flat land in Loei province. I have no idea what makes the Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai land so much more expensive.

I think the reasons that make one place more expensive than another are the same worldwide. Among them are, proximity to high income producing jobs/businesses, improved infrastructure and transportation links, quality of education/universities, quality of health care, natural beauty, etc.

[Gary A]

If you even want to break even farming in Thailand, you can't possibly pay more than 30,000 baht per rai. Even at that I doubt you will make any money. I bought a 10 rai plot for 180,000 about two years ago and another 9.5 rai plot a couple months ago for 190,000. This is decent flat land in Loei province. I have no idea what makes the Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai land so much more expensive.

I think the reasons that make one place more expensive than another are the same worldwide. Among them are, proximity to high income producing jobs/businesses, improved infrastructure and transportation links, quality of education/universities, quality of health care, natural beauty, etc.

I have a good friend who lives in Phan. That's about 50 kilometers south of Chiang Rai. I can tell you that I would much rather live in the area where we are. I don't think there is a bahts worth of difference in the infrastructure and where we live is a lot more scenic. I'm also satisfied with Loei Ram hospital. We also have a bus station and an airport. Last but not least, he can't find Archa beer for less than 265 baht per box. I pay 240 baht.

[lannarebirth]

If you even want to break even farming in Thailand, you can't possibly pay more than 30,000 baht per rai. Even at that I doubt you will make any money. I bought a 10 rai plot for 180,000 about two years ago and another 9.5 rai plot a couple months ago for 190,000. This is decent flat land in Loei province. I have no idea what makes the Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai land so much more expensive.

I think the reasons that make one place more expensive than another are the same worldwide. Among them are, proximity to high income producing jobs/businesses, improved infrastructure and transportation links, quality of education/universities, quality of health care, natural beauty, etc.

I have a good friend who lives in Phan. That's about 50 kilometers south of Chiang Rai. I can tell you that I would much rather live in the area where we are. I don't think there is a bahts worth of difference in the infrastructure and where we live is a lot more scenic. I'm also satisfied with Loei Ram hospital. We also have a bus station and an airport. Last but not least, he can't find Archa beer for less than 265 baht per box. I pay 240 baht.

To tell you the truth Gary, I'd probably rather live where you do too. Was through there last month and pictured myself getting along just fine there. Girls have to go to school though and the woman won't do "local" yet, but I'm working on it.

[tijnebijn]

Chownah

I see your point;

But alot of people buy land on speculation, hence the price will go up and many cases the land may double/triple or quadruple in ten years. Therefore oppurtunity cost does not become such a simple calculation, or even a negative calculation. But I do agree, you would probably want golden chickens laying golden eggs to buy farm land at 100K and actually make a profit from it.

If you were to move 100 km plus outside Chiang Mai you would start to find land for around 50k maybe even closer to 25K.

Incidentally I know of land of 1,000 rai in Nongkhai beside a river with Chanood papers for 25,000 bt/rai if anyone is interested, suitable for vege production, tree production. Has irrigation system too, maybe have to pay more for that.

SAP

Prices like that you do not have the first ownership paper. Its the second or third degree , after five years they might give you the real ownership one. Here in Chiangdao it is 350k up per rai. And this small village is 70km from Chiangmai.

Everything whats more cheap are not the first degree ownership paper (whats the name for that ?).

[SAP]

First degree ownership papers are called Chanood, (chanoot or however you want to spell it) there are other old posts here giving full details of Nor Sor Sam etc.

350,000 bt/rai is hellishly expensive if you want to grow rice vege's or raise a few pigs or chickens.

You looking at 24,600 USD/acre or 60,000 USD/ha, I have to agree with Chownah stick your money in the bank!!!

OR

Find those magical golden chickens!!

[Gary A]

My wife has four properties. All of them have a red seal chanote. I really don't know what that means but according to her it means that you can do whatever you want with the land. She immediately loses interest if someone wants to sell land that hasn't got this type of paper. On the land paper is a sketch with a lot of Thai numbers and lines between points. Those points are where the government cement markers are located. The paper itself is thick and beige colored with a red seal near the top of the paper and other information on the back of the paper.

[slapout]

Gary: we (my wife) also has several properties with the land paper you are describing. This can be sold , have bank loan, etc. The papers that are given in several areas of northern Thailand, Chiang Dao, included are suspect in many cases as they were granted by village headmen in cahoots with land office employees. These are coming under very close inspection in todays government. They were selling these sites for 20000 per rai in Fang district about 8 to 10 year ago but right now the (squatters) are wanting to sell their orange groves, etc to anyone with cash and no sense.

[lannarebirth]

Gary: we (my wife) also has several properties with the land paper you are describing. This can be sold , have bank loan, etc. The papers that are given in several areas of northern Thailand, Chiang Dao, included are suspect in many cases as they were granted by village headmen in cahoots with land office employees. These are coming under very close inspection in todays government. They were selling these sites for 20000 per rai in Fang district about 8 to 10 year ago but right now the (squatters) are wanting to sell their orange groves, etc to anyone with cash and no sense.

Well, it all depends doesn't it? I've bought land with no paper and had it upgraded directly to chanote (with 10 year sale restriction, which is easily circumvented). My gf sold 2 rai of no paper land last month to a friend of hers. it cost more than Gary paid for 10 rai of chanote.

It really pays to understand all the land title schemes that Thailand has introduced over the years. (90% of no paper land will hold chanote titles one day). You have to get the provenance right though. My girlfrind owns 70 rai of no paper land. This year it was all marked by the government with cement corner post desigtnating "Sor Tor Kor" land. Sor Tor Kor is a government scheme that moves no paper land previously under the control of the Forest department, directly to chanote title. Takes a few years though and one must use the land to grow agriculture.

[registeredfalang]

I was quoted as saying [titled] rice land in our area can be bought for 100k-150k bhatt/rai.....let me qualify that, I've been offered land at 100k/rai as a distress sale price, and land as high [and higher] as 150k/rai....averaging around 125/rai. there's 7 rai adjacent to us for 140k/rai and he will discount to 130k/rai and I'm wainting for him to go down more and my $$ to appreciate more.

FYI, i live in the doi saket area and plenty of irrigation water all year long.

PM me if you would like to view some land in our area....neighbors approach me all the time...thinking that i have rich falang friends that want to buy. to be out front........I'll [or my thai wife] will make a [standard] 3% commision, paid by seller. good soil for fruit crops as well as vegetable crops with some organic ammendments.

[eladblum]

i was offered to buy a 14 rai plot (10 rai of lamyay trees and 4 rai empty) in chom thong at the price of 500K as a wedding present.

what do you think?

[registeredfalang]

question [for value and secure ownership] # 1 is........... does it have a chonod??