Brainwashed Or Friendless - Which Is Better ?

[Xangsamhua]

What nationalistic brainwashing are you talking about?

Well, some things should not be spelled out, for the sake of being able to continue the thread.

History though is an elementary problem here, and how it is interpreted in Thailand, taught in schools, and the very real dangers when one attempts to teach anything approaching real history, or even encourages questioning, which is integral part of development in education. A recent case is a perfect example, in the field of philosophy, here a link:

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=115

and:

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=116

Yes, there are some terrible stories resulting from the lack of academic freedom in this country. I notice that the new proposed constitution guarantees academic freedom "so long as it doesn't contravene one's civic duties or good morality" (or words to that effect - I don't have the document here). This is not really academic freedom, but is perhaps headed in the right direction. It might put an end to cases such as the public humiliation some years ago of the lecturer who questioned the facticity of the Suranaree legend in her thesis.

[billzant]

Concerning the history lecturer there would be no equivalent situation in the West. Some pretext would be found to remove the lecturer from the course - probably on the grounds of lack of professional cooperation. The institution's powers would look for ways to move him on eg giving him the worst classes - and of course a good reference.

Censorship and indoctrination takes many forms not just head-on conflict.

Hope you are keeping well,

All the Best

Bill Z

[ColPyat]

Yes, there are some terrible stories resulting from the lack of academic freedom in this country. I notice that the new proposed constitution guarantees academic freedom "so long as it doesn't contravene one's civic duties or good morality" (or words to that effect - I don't have the document here). This is not really academic freedom, but is perhaps headed in the right direction. It might put an end to cases such as the public humiliation some years ago of the lecturer who questioned the facticity of the Suranaree legend in her thesis.

I don't think the provision in the constitution is a step forward. It still basically leaves a highly interpretative clause that goes beyond Lese Majeste laws. Who is interpreting what "civic duties" and "good morality" contain?

The ministry of culture?

The social conservatives presently running the country (and for the foreseeable future)?

There is a very good paper on this subject, if anybody is interested:

Problems in Contemporary Thai Nationalist Historiography by Patrick Jory

http://kyotoreview.cseas.kyoto-u.ac.jp/iss...rticle_251.html

different link, same article:

http://asiaarticle.blogspot.com/2007/04/pr...orary-thai.html

[canuckamuck]

What nationalistic brainwashing are you talking about? The love for the Royal Family? Because apart from that, my son, who goes to a Thai school hasn't come home with any nationalistic ideas. Yes, he stands up for the National Anthem when he hears it & sings along, but I certainly don't see that to be a bad thing.

My son does think for himself (sometimes even more than I'd like ), he does have an understanding of logic and as far as is possible at his age, reality. History, no - but that's not any fault of the school system, he just hasn't grasped the idea of chronology if it doesn't directly involve him, yet.

Where I live, there is no decent alternative (there is an international school, but it's not a good one), but I'm quite satisfied with my son's development, maturity, curiosity and ability to express himself on many ideas. I'm genuinely puzzled as to what exactly you're all alluding to.

NR, it is obvious from your posts that you are a very capable and intelligent woman and you are likely a fantastic mom. I am sure your son’s good development is a result of a nurturing environment.

Maybe the same would work out for me, but I want to be sure. That’s why I will home school.

My wife and I just spent 12 days taking care of a group of kids in children’s home so the guardians could have a break. I watched how they did each others homework, how they point wasn’t to learn but just to get it done. No thinking, just fill in the blank or color a picture.

I’ve seen many examples of this over the years.

As far as nationalism, I think I would be capable to providing alternative info to bust the myths. But I don’t want to have to do that.

My brother had his daughter in a Chinese school in China, she was born there, and one day she came home one day using some very derogative terms to describe her father. She was taught these terms in a class about foreigners. She was only 6 at the time.

It wasn’t long before they decided it was best to return to the west.

[sriracha john]

My kids will be home schooled

A practical solution to anyone concerned about shortcomings in a school system.

[Solosiam]

My kids will be home schooled

A practical solution to anyone concerned about shortcomings in a school system.

Surely a large point of schooling is the social interaction with other children and people in authority who aren't your parents. Supplementing your childrens education with another 1-2 hours at home after school may be a much better idea.

[ColPyat]

My kids will be home schooled

A practical solution to anyone concerned about shortcomings in a school system.

Not exactly. School not only functions as a place of education, but also socialization. Without learning how to operate in a group situation a child will have huge difficulties in later life.

[lannarebirth]

I would leave Thailand before I would send a child into the Thai system. The ability to think for yourself, to adapt, and to have an understanding of logic, reality, and history, is the most vital thing you can give a child.

My kids will be home schooled with a western curriculum, as I have seen even the private schools are pathetic.

The choice isn't about brainwashed or unpopular, it's about a having a stagnant mind or a creative one. The benefits or damage will last a lifetime.

Well, you're not the first to have reached this conclusion:

http://www.google.co.th/search?hl=en&q...ooling&meta=

[canuckamuck]

Home schooled children often go through a short awkward phase when entering post secondary school or the job market. But it is a temporary hiccup and is a small consequence compared to the benefit of a good education. I am told home schooled children are high achievers and on the average have higher IQ’s.

No I don’t have links to back that up. But I know a number of home schooled children who appear to prove this claim.

[Robski]

"Surely a school is a place where one learns about the totality, the wholeness of life. Academic excellence is absolutely necessary, but a school includes much more than that. It is a place where both the teacher and the taught explore not only the outer world, the world of knowledge, but also their own thinking, their behavior." Krishnamurti.

[sriracha john]

My kids will be home schooled

A practical solution to anyone concerned about shortcomings in a school system.

Surely a large point of schooling is the social interaction with other children and people in authority who aren't your parents. Supplementing your childrens education with another 1-2 hours at home after school may be a much better idea.

It's a viable option for those that are so concerned about a school poisoning their child's mind versus the decreased social interaction with home schooling. No system is perfect. No choice is ideal in all regards... but if someone is that concerned about the serious shortcomings provided by a school's educational system, home schooling is a practical solution.

The issue of socialization can be viewed alternatively as:

Socialization - The Home School Advantage

There's over 2 million children in the U.S.A. being home-schooled... they're not social misfits nor outcasts.

[Solosiam]

It's a viable option for those that are so concerned about a school poisoning their child's mind versus the decreased social interaction with home schooling. No system is perfect. No choice is ideal in all regards... but if someone is that concerned about the serious shortcomings provided by a school's educational system, home schooling is a practical solution.

The issue of socialization can be viewed alternatively as:

Socialization - The Home School Advantage

There's over 2 million children in the U.S.A. being home-schooled... they're not social misfits nor outcasts.

Then why have I NEVER heard of anyone famous for being successful who is home schooled, I'm very aware that most entrepreneurs drop out of University for example.

The article you quote gives no explanation as to why or how the socialisation is not necessary, except that the parents think it is (often people who don't fit into conventional social circles). I do have a problem with the explaining away of these problems by involving them in a couple of sports and that some strange 'tests' measure your social skills by the amount of extracurricular activities students do (Isn't this exactly the opposite, the only people who join after school clubs etc... are often those with little or no friends and/or social skills).

It's not surprising that the article you quote mentions religion quite strongly, I worked in recruitment previously and home schooling would certainly set off a warning flag. Either of some strange religious environment or very poor communication skills.

[englishoak]

This very issue has been one that has concerned me for several years, as we have a daughter approaching secondary school age, who has done the bulk of her primary schooling in Thailand (a semi-state run university "Demonstration" school). She has developed quite well over the last five years, learned a fair amount and has made good friends there (but not to the same degree she would have in a UK school I sense). But the religious-nationalist teaching is quite suspect in its lack of questioning of options, while much of the teaching is rote and lacks a personal understanding element i.e. "remember 2+2=4 and you won't go wrong".

Thus we made the decision some time ago to take her back to UK for secondary schooling, when the time came. We didn't want to send her to international school for a whole set of reasons which I won't go into here, and thought a Mathayom state school education woud not adequately prepare her for a possible Western University education, so the best option under the circumstances was a UK state school, warts and all. For all its faults, it's streaks ahead of its equivalent in Thailand in nearly all areas, although there are some instances where I think Thai schools are superior (e.g. long-term bonds with friends made at school).

Personally and on-balance I would rather stay in LOS and the wife feels much the same, but our daughter's future comes first.

Anyway, the time has now come and we go back to UK tomorrow, with the new school term starting in about three weeks time. Only time will tell if we have made the right decision..............

Last year we brought our daughter back to the UK to attend secondary school. We too felt the need for a better education for her after spending her entire education to date in a gov school in Bangkok. She was 11 when she arrived here in May 06 with just the last term of primary to go enabling her to settle in before starting secondary school last Sept.

She has become fluent in the past year and is now average in her English class. A few things surprised us, she was about a year ahead in Maths and this has continued during the past year in secondary. She is also way in front on computer studies and art & design.There is a lack of Homework in the system over here now and we are constantly doing projects with her just to keep her interested and have something to do after school. There is talk here that they will be phazing out history after the first year of secondary and more of a focus on integration/citizenship and Physical education due to the overwieght of UK kids. We have come to the conclusion that the education system here is in fact failing in teaching the core subjects and have turned to private lessons to compensate ( not cheap ). They also seem to learn more and more parrott fashion ( sound familiar ? ) now and wonder if the education system here really is that much better.

There is as an awful lot of freedom of thought taught in the schools these days which can be a good thing. There is also the drawback picking up on being a teenager here and all that can bring too (peer pressure). My wife is beginning to question the lack of dicipline at the school. And If i'm honest i'm not that impressed either. Still she is doing very well in studies and works hard but it is difficult when she sees her friends messing around.

Bottom line is it has been worth it so far but we are not sure about how she will feel when we all return to Thailand some time in the future. Will she accept/respect the Thai higherachy system in place there or find it unjust ? Will she find it easier to secure a career or find it frustrating and intolerable ?. Most importantly will she have a sense of belonging still in Thailand or feel on the outside? These are our concerns and I guess we will just have to see how it works out.

Best of luck Colpyat i'm sure it will work out.

[ColPyat]

It's a viable option for those that are so concerned about a school poisoning their child's mind versus the decreased social interaction with home schooling. No system is perfect. No choice is ideal in all regards... but if someone is that concerned about the serious shortcomings provided by a school's educational system, home schooling is a practical solution.

The issue of socialization can be viewed alternatively as:

Socialization - The Home School Advantage

There's over 2 million children in the U.S.A. being home-schooled... they're not social misfits nor outcasts.

Given the US school system, suffering from similar problems i am having with the Thai school system's curriculum, i have no doubts why so many parents there decide for homeschooling.

I though come from Europe, and that is my reference. Not that our school system is perfect, but at least nationalism and religion are kept out of the class room (apart from religious private schools).

I haven't finished reading the article, i stopped at the point when parents of home schooled children explained on how they counteracted the lack of socialization, by swimming teams and little league baseball, because then i realized that this reasoning simply cannot be applied to Thailand as there is none of this available outside school to parents who are not members of privileged clubs of the upper 10 000.

[ColPyat]

There is as an awful lot of freedom of thought taught in the schools these days which can be a good thing. There is also the drawback picking up on being a teenager here and all that can bring too (peer pressure). My wife is beginning to question the lack of dicipline at the school. And If i'm honest i'm not that impressed either. Still she is doing very well in studies and works hard but it is difficult when she sees her friends messing around.

Good post. Interesting perspective. Makes one think.

On the subject of normal government schools here in Thailand - they are not exactly as made out to be either. Drugs, rapes within the school, and violence are serious problems here as well, just kept under the carpet.

I see a couple of kids, around 15 or 16, from the slummy area nearby, every day going with their uniforms to school. At night they hang out in front of my house now, sell amphetamines, smoke 'em, sniff glue, go to the motorcycle races. Not very nice, but at least they don't bother us.

[canadiangirl]

Then why have I NEVER heard of anyone famous for being successful who is home schooled, I'm very aware that most entrepreneurs drop out of University for example.

Hi Solosiam,

I can't speak as a parent, but I've worked with homeschooled kids before, so I thought I'd add my two cents.

Before my first year at university, I taught at a mathematics camp for gifted teenagers in the US. We were fortunate to attract some really passionate and talented kids; many, many of them went on to attend university at places like MIT, Stanford, Harvard, Caltech.

I mention this because we had a few homeschooled student in our midst. Every single one of them was a delight to work with: passionate, intelligent, they were able to motivate themselves, pursue their own interests, they were original, leaders, got along fine with the other kids -- and far from the many "autistic nerd" types one meets in mathematics. In previous years, a number of homeschooled kids won the USAMO, a fairly-high level mathematics competition for high school kids in the U.S.

There is a risk, with homeschooling, of isolating children, or producing kids that are good at one thing and crap at everything else -- but, if well done, I think homeschooling can "produce" much more complete human beings than traditional schooling can.

[bina]

my take is that u as a parent make 100% difference. u may have to stick up for your child when dealing with less 'free thinking or appreciative 'teachers and some years may have your child lonely for a peer group, however, in the long run, if your child doesnt have social skill problems than they can survive. they find ways to 'toe the school peer pressure line' and yet develop as free thinking individuals and maintain friends. from what i can see from my own kids and from the children that i see daily at our park, they may learn crap at school, they tend to reflect what they hear and feel at home for good or bad. school systems can only provide info; the joy of wanting learn comes from individuals whether they are parents or teachers.

... and i dont think being famous is the same equivalent as being happy or satisfied with your life : my oldest was id'd by the army as being officer material, she turned them down and is going to be a soldier/teacher (there is no equiv. in other armies as far as i know, this is the israeli defense force); each child has his/her own personalities, skills, wants, and needs and i dont think going for 'famous' , making lots of money, or big job in x company are good measures of education.

i find it amazing that my thai husband can take apart any machine he finds in the local dumping area and resurrect it back to life, and he doesnt have any schooling. he also taught himself to play piano, guitar, sings. he has friends where ever he goes but has got to be the most stubborn, independant thinker i've met besides my daughter. and he is a product of issan farm schooling and she, an 'open experimental school' .

education is only a tool. but people manage without these tools just as well. creativity, stick with it'ness, mechanical skills, are all worthy qualities. not everyone has to be the president of the u.s.a or britney spears, or a nobel prize winner. some people are top of the line bakers, or wood workers, or computer technicians. and school doesnt seem to have too much to do with it. after all, i'm here, top of my class, high iq, auto didactic, cleaning up goat shit and giving iv's to donkeys. and i am happy my life is full.

bina

israel