Pros & Cons Of Child Registration & Passport From Country Of Origin

[paulyonthemove]

I have known my girlfriend for about 8 months now and have gotten her pregnant . I definitely know within myself that 8 months is not long enough (bear in mind i only knew her 5 months when she dropped the bomb) to be a good percentage sure that she is OK, trustworthy ect.......... Now i know she has intended to get pregnant and i am a fool for not reading the signs but there you go and it's done now.

She has been talking about marriage (I've told her she can wait until i know her better) dowry (yeah right!!) moving to my country of origin (not if i can make it here) and above all the child

• will i put the child in my name
  
• will i get the child a passport from my embassy
  

What i want to know is what are the pros and cons of this. What if she's in it for the money! Can she claim child support from here or my country of origin. What if she gets off with another fella who will take her to my country of origin! Can she claim child support once she gets there?

[Neeranam]

I can only think of pros for doing this for the child and the mother. If I were you, I'd decide quickly if you want the responsibility of looking afer them for the next 20 years or not. If not, run now.

[seonai]

It may be helpful to know which is your home country before giving advice. How do you really feel about the woman? Do you imagine falling in love with her. How much can you communicate with her about your feelings?

[paulyonthemove]

It may be helpful to know which is your home country before giving advice. How do you really feel about the woman? Do you imagine falling in love with her. How much can you communicate with her about your feelings?

My home country is England. If i am honest, i feel like i am still too young to be settling down with kids. I still have a lot more i want to do and i don't even know whether i want to settle here in Thailand for good. If i went back home i would want to get back with my ex. It was everything about the country that drove me crazy, not my ex. I feel guilty on her cause i have broke her heart and that f!*ks me up. What concerns me is if this woman turns out to be another one of them stories i hear or read. That would f!*k me up even more. If were going to have a child i want it to be for the right reasons on her part and no the wrong. But how can i be sure? That is why i want to cover my back, for that "just in case". Like i said i haven't known her long enough to know her nature, motives ect....

I can imagine living well with her, maybe the love thing will grow. And as far as the communication goes, "nig noi". We get by with the basics, but when it comes to deep talk, forget about it.

[JimmyCA]

I have known my girlfriend for about 8 months now and have gotten her pregnant . I definitely know within myself that 8 months is not long enough (bear in mind i only knew her 5 months when she dropped the bomb) to be a good percentage sure that she is OK, trustworthy ect.......... Now i know she has intended to get pregnant and i am a fool for not reading the signs but there you go and it's done now.

She has been talking about marriage (I've told her she can wait until i know her better) dowry (yeah right!!) moving to my country of origin (not if i can make it here) and above all the child

• will i put the child in my name
  
• will i get the child a passport from my embassy
  

What i want to know is what are the pros and cons of this. What if she's in it for the money! Can she claim child support from here or my country of origin. What if she gets off with another fella who will take her to my country of origin! Can she claim child support once she gets there?

You have described the perfect dilemma in which every possible pro is offset by an equivalent con.

[paulyonthemove]

I have known my girlfriend for about 8 months now and have gotten her pregnant . I definitely know within myself that 8 months is not long enough (bear in mind i only knew her 5 months when she dropped the bomb) to be a good percentage sure that she is OK, trustworthy ect.......... Now i know she has intended to get pregnant and i am a fool for not reading the signs but there you go and it's done now.

She has been talking about marriage (I've told her she can wait until i know her better) dowry (yeah right!!) moving to my country of origin (not if i can make it here) and above all the child

• will i put the child in my name
  
• will i get the child a passport from my embassy
  

What i want to know is what are the pros and cons of this. What if she's in it for the money! Can she claim child support from here or my country of origin. What if she gets off with another fella who will take her to my country of origin! Can she claim child support once she gets there?

You have described the perfect dilemma in which every possible pro is offset by an equivalent con.

I need details. I want to do the right thing but i don't want to suffer the consequences and regret for doing the right thing.

[Etrigan]

Paul - Think very carefully mate.

I would suggest you sit down for at least an hour with a sheet of paper before you with two columns, pro and con, and you systematically write through the list. You are on your own with this decision Paul.

Posting on TV may yield some results, but I doubt it, because then you'll be looking for reassurances and such.

Best of luck.

[sylvafern]

The bigger issue here is not the pros and cons of having the child in your name but the pros and cons of having a child fullstop. Even though you feel too young to settle down and have a family, the fact is you have a baby on the way and you need to take 50% of the responsibility. Even if she did trap you into getting pregnant, it takes two to tango and all that so you can't put all the blame on her. While you might not be ready to settle down and marry her (or even live with her) you do need to think what kind of role you want to take in your child's life. It seems to me as if you feel you might be trapped into giving child support payments .... but morally, don't you feel you should be doing it whether she asks for them or not? If you were in the UK and your girlfriend accidently got pregnant, would you want your name on the child's birth certificate, etc? Would you legally be entitled to provide child support? If the answer is 'yes' then it should be the same in this situation .... the fact that your girlfriend is Thai and you are in Thailand should really have no relevance.

Based on all the stories I have read on here and heard and seen, I do understand how you must feel at the moment though so you are in a delicate situation. Whatever you decide, I think you really need to think about the child's best interests, not necessarily what's best for you or your girlfriend.

Like someone said, if you are not ready to commit to any aspect of this relationship, including the child, then run now. It wouldn't be responsible, moral or the right thing to do in any way at all and think serioudly about the negative affect it may possibly have on your life and the child's life (e.g. in ten or twenty years time when you are settled down with the right woman and have children, will you still be wondering about the child you abandoned in Thailand and harbouring strong feelings of guilt? How will the child feel growing up never knowing its father?)

Is it possible that you could convince your girlfriend to think of other options? I think abortion is illegal here, although it sounds like you might be past this stage anyhow, but can you convince your girlfriend to put the child up for adoption if you feel that you are not ready to take on the life-long responsibility of having a child. I am sure there would be ways of doing this - there must be people within Thailand and internationally lining up to adopt a baby. How do you feel about taking full custody of the baby and bringing it up without your girlfriend (if the issue is that you just don't want to be with her). Do you have parents in the UK that could support you with this?

As far as your original question goes, there are only pros for your child for having them registered and getting a passport from your country. Whether or not your girlfriend uses this in the future to gain child support, etc, is irrelevant as these details will be benefitting your child. Just try and think about your child in the future .... do you want him or her growing up in Thailand and going to public schools here and only ever knowing Thai culture, or do you want your child to have the opportunity to come and live in the UK, go to school there, attend university and receive all the benefits of having a UK passport compared to a Thai one?

I hope this helps you to think through the issues and focus on the key ones. Whatever you do, don't 'do the right thing' and marry her just because she is pregnant. I have seen first hand the state of relationships where the guy did this and it is not healthy for the guy or for the kids involved.

Edited August 20, 2007 by sylvafern

[paulyonthemove]

The bigger issue here is not the pros and cons of having the child in your name but the pros and cons of having a child fullstop. Even though you feel too young to settle down and have a family, the fact is you have a baby on the way and you need to take 50% of the responsibility. Even if she did trap you into getting pregnant, it takes two to tango and all that so you can't put all the blame on her. While you might not be ready to settle down and marry her (or even live with her) you do need to think what kind of role you want to take in your child's life. It seems to me as if you feel you might be trapped into giving child support payments .... but morally, don't you feel you should be doing it whether she asks for them or not? If you were in the UK and your girlfriend accidently got pregnant, would you want your name on the child's birth certificate, etc? Would you legally be entitled to provide child support? If the answer is 'yes' then it should be the same in this situation .... the fact that your girlfriend is Thai and you are in Thailand should really have no relevance.

Based on all the stories I have read on here and heard and seen, I do understand how you must feel at the moment though so you are in a delicate situation. Whatever you decide, I think you really need to think about the child's best interests, not necessarily what's best for you or your girlfriend.

Like someone said, if you are not ready to commit to any aspect of this relationship, including the child, then run now. It wouldn't be responsible, moral or the right thing to do in any way at all and think serioudly about the negative affect it may possibly have on your life and the child's life (e.g. in ten or twenty years time when you are settled down with the right woman and have children, will you still be wondering about the child you abandoned in Thailand and harbouring strong feelings of guilt? How will the child feel growing up never knowing its father?)

Is it possible that you could convince your girlfriend to think of other options? I think abortion is illegal here, although it sounds like you might be past this stage anyhow, but can you convince your girlfriend to put the child up for adoption if you feel that you are not ready to take on the life-long responsibility of having a child. I am sure there would be ways of doing this - there must be people within Thailand and internationally lining up to adopt a baby. How do you feel about taking full custody of the baby and bringing it up without your girlfriend (if the issue is that you just don't want to be with her). Do you have parents in the UK that could support you with this?

As far as your original question goes, there are only pros for your child for having them registered and getting a passport from your country. Whether or not your girlfriend uses this in the future to gain child support, etc, is irrelevant as these details will be benefitting your child. Just try and think about your child in the future .... do you want him or her growing up in Thailand and going to public schools here and only ever knowing Thai culture, or do you want your child to have the opportunity to come and live in the UK, go to school there, attend university and receive all the benefits of having a UK passport compared to a Thai one?

I hope this helps you to think through the issues and focus on the key ones. Whatever you do, don't 'do the right thing' and marry her just because she is pregnant. I have seen first hand the state of relationships where the guy did this and it is not healthy for the guy or for the kids involved.

Well thankyou for all the food for thought and moral obligations ect... Belive me this has all gone around my head a thousand times.

If she turns out to be nasty then the last person i want to benefit is her. I do belive in sharing the responsibility but like i said if shes in this for the wrong reasons, then she's picked the wrong person to try and screw. As you can see i am having issues with trust (8 months, remember!)

So what i want to know is can she try and screw me if she feels like it?

[Goinghomesoon]

In Australia the foreign mother could apply for child support but that would be a long shot if she had never lived in Oz and didn't speak English sufficiently. The whole process relies on the applicant knowing how the system works. Plus she'd need to have someone to fill out and lodge the forms on her behalf and possible going to court for her. Does your gf know how the rules work? Could she afford a UK lawyer? And/or the testing costs which can be expensive?

To my mind registering the child as a citizen won't necessarily mean a greater chance of the mother claiming child support. A child support application would really depend on how much (or little) she knows about the UK and how the system works.

Edited August 25, 2007 by Goinghomesoon

[paulyonthemove]

In Australia the foreign mother could apply for child support but that would be a long shot if she had never lived in Oz and didn't speak English sufficiently. The whole process relies on the applicant knowing how the system works. Plus she'd need to have someone to fill out and lodge the forms on her behalf and possible going to court for her. Does your gf know how the rules work? Could she afford a UK lawyer? And/or the testing costs which can be expensive?

To my mind registering the child as a citizen won't necessarily mean a greater chance of the mother claiming child support. A child support application would really depend on how much (or little) she knows about the UK and how the system works.

Thankyou very much for some straight talk about the questions at hand. Now this makes me feel more inclined to want to register the child in my name and get the baby an English passport. This would be the right thing to do and the best thing to do in my view. Even if me and the lady did not work out i would want to help were i can for the interests of the baby. However, i think my best bet now is to contact the embassy for an elaboration of the facts.

[Solosiam]

I have known my girlfriend for about 8 months now and have gotten her pregnant . I definitely know within myself that 8 months is not long enough (bear in mind i only knew her 5 months when she dropped the bomb) to be a good percentage sure that she is OK, trustworthy ect.......... Now i know she has intended to get pregnant and i am a fool for not reading the signs but there you go and it's done now.

She has been talking about marriage (I've told her she can wait until i know her better) dowry (yeah right!!) moving to my country of origin (not if i can make it here) and above all the child

• will i put the child in my name
  
• will i get the child a passport from my embassy
  

What i want to know is what are the pros and cons of this. What if she's in it for the money! Can she claim child support from here or my country of origin. What if she gets off with another fella who will take her to my country of origin! Can she claim child support once she gets there?

Why would it matter if it's your child.

I'm getting a bit bored of all the questions on here about how to get out of your responsibilities, or trick your wife into not knowing or being able to claim what is due her abroad.

IF YOU DON'T TRUST AND LOVE THE GIRL, THEN DONT GET MARRIED. It's hardly rocket science.

[paulyonthemove]

I have known my girlfriend for about 8 months now and have gotten her pregnant . I definitely know within myself that 8 months is not long enough (bear in mind i only knew her 5 months when she dropped the bomb) to be a good percentage sure that she is OK, trustworthy ect.......... Now i know she has intended to get pregnant and i am a fool for not reading the signs but there you go and it's done now.

She has been talking about marriage (I've told her she can wait until i know her better) dowry (yeah right!!) moving to my country of origin (not if i can make it here) and above all the child

• will i put the child in my name
  
• will i get the child a passport from my embassy
  

What i want to know is what are the pros and cons of this. What if she's in it for the money! Can she claim child support from here or my country of origin. What if she gets off with another fella who will take her to my country of origin! Can she claim child support once she gets there?

Why would it matter if it's your child.

I'm getting a bit bored of all the questions on here about how to get out of your responsibilities, or trick your wife into not knowing or being able to claim what is due her abroad.

IF YOU DON'T TRUST AND LOVE THE GIRL, THEN DONT GET MARRIED. It's hardly rocket science.

Are you reading the same posts or just skipping through them. The question is not concerning marriage "rocket man". It's concerning a woman who may be trying to dupe me into not just supporting a child but supporting her, who i couldn't say has got the get up and go to even try and do good for her self,knowwhatimean!! She was in college for just 2 weeks when she told me and just stopped going at the drop of a hat. Did she even wanna go? who knows. like i said i wanna do what i can but i don't wanna fall deeper into a trap. Things might turn out rosy and i might never regret a thing. But i just wanna be sure.

Now read f*ckin posts before mailing a reply di"k head and understand that theres two sides to a coin, and if you've been awake on your loafing here in Thailand and heard and read the story's then try and remotely understand where am coming from!!

[Solosiam]

No offense mate, but you got her pregnant so deal with it - Obviously if the child is yours you must make sure that they have every advantage in life they can by registering them properly and making passport applications etc...

What's the difference if she can claim child support or not?, if its your child you should be paying for the upbringing regardless of who the mother is. Even if she's the most evil mastermind in the world, its still your kid. The 'consequences' and 'suffering' you may have to endure by 'doing the right thing' is inconsequential.

Don't get all angry at me because you messed up.

If you want legal advice then I suggest you go to a lawyer.

[britmaveric]

Well were using protection?? Not 100%, but normally solves the problem of unwanted pregnancies. Any rate don't matter now - take responsibility for the lil one regardless of your relationship with the mum to be. Provide and do your best for the lil one - anything else is moot at this point.

[Oleg_Rus]

Provide and do your best for the lil one - anything else is moot at this point.

+1

TS - Yeah, right. asking ppl an tv about future faith of a child. What were you drinking?

[garro]

Paul, this is only my opinion but I think the fact that you have a child on the way means your life has changed forever. It does not mater how the child came into being, tricked or not tricked, you have a duty to this child. Your baby should have all the rights due to him as your son including British Passport and it is your responsibility to provide him with financial security until he/she is old enough to provide their own. I realize that you are concerned that you also may need to support his mother but this is only fair as, whether you stay with her or not, she will be raising your child.

Very few people that I know would have much sympathy for any father that wasn't willing to look after his children. It is very much a taboo and rightly so. If you choose to go down the route it will be something that will stay with you for ever and unless your some type of sociopath it will be your lasting shame. I am sorry that these words are not very comforting but I think you need to grow up now and be a man. Men look after their children, no excuses.

I recently became a father and I can assure you it is the greatest privilege in the world. If you do decide that you don't want to stay with his mother I would strongly suggest that you stay on good terms with her.

Edited August 28, 2007 by garro

[keestha]

Paul,

Please take into account cultural differences. In Thailand a woman is expected to get married the sooner the better after she has started cohabiting with a man. And especially if she is young and does not have children from a previous marriage, it will also be expected that there will be a child, or at least a child on its way, in less than a year. There is an enormous social pressure to this effect coming from her family.

You may feel tricked, but she only did what she was programmed to do by her upbringing. She just did what she thought was the only proper thing to do.

Unless you are 100% sure not up to it and choose the adoption route, why don't you just take it one step at a time? The child should at least be given a chance to have a father. See how it works out living with her when the baby is there. Your relationship with her will change then, because you will really have something in common.

In case it really doesn't work out, you can always split up with her, and after that pay her a monthly stipend to enable her to take care of your child.

I became a father 3 months ago, and my life didn't change so much after that in Thailand the father is not expected to do so much in the sense of changing diapers, getting up in the middle of the night to bottle feed, and so on.

Edited August 28, 2007 by keestha

[paulyonthemove]

Paul, this is only my opinion but I think the fact that you have a child on the way means your life has changed forever (its changing all the time mate! regardless). It does not mater how the child came into being, tricked or not tricked, you have a duty to this child (correct). Your baby should have all the rights due to him as your son including British Passport and it is your responsibility to provide him with financial security until he/she is old enough to provide their own (correct). I realize that you are concerned that you also may need to support his mother but this is only fair as, whether you stay with her or not, she will be raising your child (incorrect).

Very few people that I know would have much sympathy for any father that wasn't willing to look after his children (correct. Me included). It is very much a taboo and rightly so. If you choose to go down the route it will be something that will stay with you for ever and unless your some type of sociopath it will be your lasting shame (correct). I am sorry that these words are not very comforting but I think you need to grow up now and be a man. Men look after their children, no excuses. (don't insult me Garry)

I recently became a father and I can assure you it is the greatest privilege in the world (I am happy for you and i am sure under even half the right circumstances it is for fathers). If you do decide that you don't want to stay with his mother I would strongly suggest that you stay on good terms with her (it takes two rings another bell in my head).

Strong words, and I've got to say there's not a lot i can argue with there except for "supporting the mother". But then this is not about arguing. This is about a young man who whether he likes it or not has fell in the baby trap. Is all i wanna know is can she claim child support from my country of origin. If i have got money to give, then the child will get it believe me. If i haven't, then we all struggle until i do get it. It would be interesting to read your stand on women who trap men for financial gain and the like. Maybe you have a strong stand on this subject because you were forced into taking care of your child or you are a single parent who feels that if you should be made to struggle then so should everybody else. Whatever your reasons, yes i have got to modify my goals and plans in life which you have kindly highlighted.

[paulyonthemove]

Paul, this is only my opinion but I think the fact that you have a child on the way means your life has changed forever (its changing all the time mate! regardless). It does not mater how the child came into being, tricked or not tricked, you have a duty to this child (correct). Your baby should have all the rights due to him as your son including British Passport and it is your responsibility to provide him with financial security until he/she is old enough to provide their own (correct). I realize that you are concerned that you also may need to support his mother but this is only fair as, whether you stay with her or not, she will be raising your child (incorrect).

Very few people that I know would have much sympathy for any father that wasn't willing to look after his children (correct. Me included). It is very much a taboo and rightly so. If you choose to go down the route it will be something that will stay with you for ever and unless your some type of sociopath it will be your lasting shame (correct). I am sorry that these words are not very comforting but I think you need to grow up now and be a man. Men look after their children, no excuses. (don't insult me Garry)

I recently became a father and I can assure you it is the greatest privilege in the world (I am happy for you and i am sure under even half the right circumstances it is for fathers). If you do decide that you don't want to stay with his mother I would strongly suggest that you stay on good terms with her (it takes two rings another bell in my head).

Strong words, and I've got to say there's not a lot i can argue with there except for "supporting the mother". But then this is not about arguing. This is about a young man who whether he likes it or not has fell in the baby trap. Is all i wanna know is can she claim child support from my country of origin. If i have got money to give, then the child will get it believe me. If i haven't, then we all struggle until i do get it. It would be interesting to read your stand on women who trap men for financial gain and the like. Maybe you have a strong stand on this subject because you were forced into taking care of your child or you are a single parent who feels that if you should be made to struggle then so should everybody else. Whatever your reasons, yes i have got to modify my goals and plans in life which you have kindly highlighted.

P.S. your original post was edited (in brackets) on my reply

[GuestHouse]

If were going to have a child i want it to be for the right reasons on her part and no the wrong.

Erm.... too late - YOU ARE HAVING A CHILD.

I'm with Garro on this one, although I'd be a lot less diplomatic.

If you didn't want to get your girlfriend pregnant you should have used condoms (and even then you are still taking the risk of getting her pregnant).

Well you've proved you have the biology of a man - now's time to get the back bone.

Marry the mother / Don't marry the mother, as you will, but the child is yours and you have a moral obligation to look after it.

Get your head around that and while you are at it, start thinking less about your own selfish needs and more about the needs of your child.

'Tricked' - Yeh right - You mean you ducked responsibility for the contraception now you wnat to duck responsibility for YOUR child.

Nice!

[think_too_mut]

In Australia the foreign mother could apply for child support but that would be a long shot if she had never lived in Oz and didn't speak English sufficiently. The whole process relies on the applicant knowing how the system works. Plus she'd need to have someone to fill out and lodge the forms on her behalf and possible going to court for her. Does your gf know how the rules work? Could she afford a UK lawyer? And/or the testing costs which can be expensive?

To my mind registering the child as a citizen won't necessarily mean a greater chance of the mother claiming child support. A child support application would really depend on how much (or little) she knows about the UK and how the system works.

How about she hires a Thai lawyer? Hundreds of them are in that business, knowing that Oz, UK, US, Canada and many other countries won't let the runaway father off the hook.

And their biz class travel bills to fix the matter with father's lawyer in the UK will be eventually paid - by the father.

[kenk3z]

You should establish all the facts first. Is the child yours? Perhaps you need to run through the process of a paternity test - you would not be the first man raising another man's child. That can happen anywhere, and does. It should be relatively inexpensive, and do away with any nagging doubts you might have in this regard.

You face a difficult issue with regard to supporting the child and somehow not supporting the mother. If you are not staying nearby, you will have no idea what the money is going to be spent on and how the child will be treated. So you might as well consider that you'll be sending money for them both if that is what develops.

It should be interesting for you to find out how she intends to care for the child. A standard practice is for children to live with grandparents. She may have some idea that you will be keeping her up to the extent that she doesn't need to work and can stay home to take care of the child. You'd better find out those plans and discuss them ASAP.

Oh, and Scampy, if this is you - good one.

kenk3z

[think_too_mut]

You should establish all the facts first. Is the child yours? Perhaps you need to run through the process of a paternity test - you would not be the first man raising another man's child. That can happen anywhere, and does. It should be relatively inexpensive, and do away with any nagging doubts you might have in this regard.

It is about 20K baht. And many hospitals refuse to do that. BKK Pattaya Hospital does not carry those tests.

They don't want guns and shootings on their premises.

You face a difficult issue with regard to supporting the child and somehow not supporting the mother. If you are not staying nearby, you will have no idea what the money is going to be spent on and how the child will be treated. So you might as well consider that you'll be sending money for them both if that is what develops.

What a wisdom this is!

It should be interesting for you to find out how she intends to care for the child. A standard practice is for children to live with grandparents.

Is it? Really? A "standard practice". It happens, of course, but not by Thais will.

She may have some idea that you will be keeping her up to the extent that she doesn't need to work and can stay home to take care of the child. You'd better find out those plans and discuss them ASAP.

The plans were there. Just waiting for someone who will realize them.