Would You Be Concerned If....

[ThaiPauly]

A 30 metre piledrive tower with a 4.7 ton piledrive was erected 20 metres away from your house.

Its taken the builders on the new development behind my house a week to errect this tower, and it is now raring to pile for Thailand

They have not started yet...I have called my insurance company...not covered.

I am not a techinically minded bloke....but I see what I see...and I am frightened of the damage this thing may have on my house and swiming pool

I have facing bricks and inlaid stone carvings on the wall....I am very concerned that these bricks and carvings may well fall into the pool damaging it further

That is all before the gap will eventually narrow to 10 metres.

The piledriving crew wont give us the number of their boss... the developer of MY Moo Baan has been to see the foreman of the site and he says "no problem".So he does not give a ######

Personally I think there could well be a problem...in the UK I could get an injunction until engineers had deemed it safe to proceed...not here though...do what the f#ck you like seems to be the order of the day

Seems my only chance to stop it is to physically lay down on the ground once the piledrive is raised...then they would have to call the cops to remove me....that or just squash me

anyway I hope they dont start till after the CM BBQ..........maybee I can get some protesters recruited to lie down with me.

OK OK probably not. Its my problem at the end of the day

Any advice would be welcome as long as it is constructive. maybee I have nothing to worry about....any engineers on the forum?

But this is serious <deleted>

[Austhaied]

TP, do what Tony Soprano would do. I will give you a hand to rough em up a bit..Fergedaboudit.

Just kidding mate. In the sub-sea engineering game piling even 50 meters away from a solid structure like an oil platform can cause structural damage. I would be livid as well.

Edited August 17, 2007 by Austhaied

[Tywais]

At the lab where I work we have 3 adjacent buildings. The middle one was just torn down and a concrete tunnel was destroyed by impact hammers (the big hydraulic, not hand held ones). Result, cracks running through one of our buildings now - some were there before but have expanded. We informed the managers that no pile driving will be allowed now due to this and they will have to dig it out.

In our case though it was around 10 meters away with the impact hammer machine but can't imagine what would happen with a pile driver. Sorry can't be of help but I would photograph both inside and outside the house and grounds with date stamps on the photos. Submit a formal complaint (written) to the management , poo yai bahn and lawyer and inform them legal proceedings will follow if any damage is done to your property.

[ThaiPauly]

I have taken loads of pictures with the piledriver in place from my garden.

I feel its inevitable that there will be structural damage.

So its inevitable that a lawsuit will follow.

I just wonder why the operators have dissappeared for the last 2 days...maybee they know what is going to happen and don't want the responsibility.????

Its all ready to rock and roll ...but they are not doing anything....YET

[Tywais]

I have taken loads of pictures with the piledriver in place from my garden.

I was referring to all walls inside and outside the house and the swimming pool. We did a large series of photos of all cracks at the building but unfortunately after the fact and could not prove they were not preexisting.

[lannarebirth]

I have taken loads of pictures with the piledriver in place from my garden.

I feel its inevitable that there will be structural damage.

So its inevitable that a lawsuit will follow.

I just wonder why the operators have dissappeared for the last 2 days...maybee they know what is going to happen and don't want the responsibility.????

Its all ready to rock and roll ...but they are not doing anything....YET

Maybe there is something pre-emptive you can do. Perhaps see a lawyer to seek an injunction till either a bond is posted or a structural engineer signs off AND a bond is posted. I feel for you. Good Luck.

[lannarebirth]

I have taken loads of pictures with the piledriver in place from my garden.

I was referring to all walls inside and outside the house and the swimming pool. We did a large series of photos of all cracks at the building but unfortunately after the fact and could not prove they were not preexisting.

That's good advice. Include that days newspaper in the shot to set the date correctly.

[ThaiPauly]

I have taken loads of pictures with the piledriver in place from my garden.

I was referring to all walls inside and outside the house and the swimming pool. We did a large series of photos of all cracks at the building but unfortunately after the fact and could not prove they were not preexisting.

Got you Mate,

Thanks...will take pics of absolutley everything in the morning

Cheers..I have lost count of the times you havegiven me sound advice...thats two free beers i owe you tomorrow

[Foggy Bottom]

Pauly - any record of important archaeology in your moobaan?

It's another angle to pursue to at least stall the works and give you time to get a game plan under way.

The Fine Arts Archaeology office are the ppeps to give a heads up on that. They've got an office somewhere down the southern half of Kamphaengdin road, and the guys in CMU History Dept would probably do some "digging" for you.

Gaz

[ThaiPauly]

I have taken loads of pictures with the piledriver in place from my garden.

I was referring to all walls inside and outside the house and the swimming pool. We did a large series of photos of all cracks at the building but unfortunately after the fact and could not prove they were not preexisting.

That's good advice. Include that days newspaper in the shot to set the date correctly.

More good advice thank you Lannarebirth

[ThaiPauly]

Pauly - any record of important archaeology in your moobaan?

It's another angle to pursue to at least stall the works and give you time to get a game plan under way.

The Fine Arts Archaeology office are the ppeps to give a heads up on that. They've got an office somewhere down the southern half of Kamphaengdin road, and the guys in CMU History Dept would probably do some "digging" for you.

Gaz

Gaz,

It was a rice paddyfield for centuries so I believe...dont know if the CMU History dept would be that interested in a paddy field...and how long would it take them to react?

Probably not soon enough I fear.

[Foggy Bottom]

Pauly - any record of important archaeology in your moobaan?

It's another angle to pursue to at least stall the works and give you time to get a game plan under way.

The Fine Arts Archaeology office are the ppeps to give a heads up on that. They've got an office somewhere down the southern half of Kamphaengdin road, and the guys in CMU History Dept would probably do some "digging" for you.

Gaz

Gaz,

It was a rice paddyfield for centuries so I believe...dont know if the CMU History dept would be that interested in a paddy field...and how long would it take them to react?

Probably not soon enough I fear.

Just a thought - might have helped

Also, remember that in 1895, McCarthy the surveyor of borders to Rama V, logged his approach up the Ping into Chiangmai and that he had heard many stories of a lost city just south of Chiangmai rumoured to once have been resplendent with many fine temples.

Aerial photography in WW2 gave a hint, but it wasn't until the 1980's that foundation digging for a new temple school at Wat Khan Thom revealed the ruins of the first temple Mengrai built at Wieng Kum Kam. (incidently - last visit there, they'd converted that beautiful, secluded and leafy, vine-covered open-air classroom into a piggin' tourist souvenir market

So if such an eminence as McCarthy saw only "paddy fields that had been there for centuries" who knows what's over your back fence. Unfortunately, as I don't know where you live, I can't go rooting through my research notes etc to find any hints.

Good luck with it though

Gaz

[slapout]

TP; I would be concerened also, taking before photos would be good idea. When they start the driver set a glass with water on a solid surface and watch for vibration this can be observed by placing a cork or other float in the water. I have been involved in using thumpers for sesimec reference and we recorded sound waves, which were produced by vibration machines, 500 meters from impact point. About the only way I could see to help to ensure the least damage would be a trench between pile driver and your property. If trench is deeper than pool and the bottom depth of driven object, it would help prevent the transmisson of sound waves through the medium. Good luck

[H2oDunc]

I once watched the whole gable end of a house just fall away from the rest of the house due to piling. I would monitor the pool for cracks as that is the first thing that will go. Depending on the size of the footings of your house will depend on the risk of damage to that. As a rule you would generaly keep 50- metres away from an adjacent building. To go close as we used to in London you would then use a silent Hydraulic grab and pull piler or vibrating piler rather than a hammer system. Though I've never seen any here. Try to find out what size and type of pile they are putting in, It may determine the liklehood of damage. I used to have some papers from some exams on the matter I'll see if I can track them down. Good luck

[Boksida]

There is an alternative and many government departments and facilities, e.g. telephone exchanges, insist on it when piling is going to cause damage to existing structures and equipment. This is bored piling, where a hole is drillied and then the pile cast in place. Many contractors have this gear but it is a lot more expensive so I can't see a developer using it unless forced to.

[Bill97]

Had some friends with this issue about 1995. They and a group of neighbors got an injunction from a judge but the police would not enfource it. They went back to the court and the judge could/would not do anything more to help. Several houses were shaking, not just the one next to the pile driver.

"Before pictures" are a good idea and show them to the contractor/developer/owner so they know. Getting a lawyer to help you and file some papers now could also help. In the end, the after the damage legal action may not be the best alternative. Like what if there is damage to your home and you get money, will the money for repairs really give you a house like it was before and compensate you for the inconvenience? Probably not.

Also about 1995 a condominium project was stopped because a neighbor told the developor he would place a very tall ugly wall/sighboard up blocking the views and making the project unattractive. If necessary, in the end, your potential new neighbor may quickly decide that they really do not want a multicolored dayglow "mural" to look at daily.

Rember a Kurt Vonegut book that included a great section about a Republican neighbor of the Kennedy family summer home who put up large signs, flashing lights and speakers and used them at odd hours of the night.

But best to continue to try to contact the owner and contractor to discuss the problem reasonably, the Owbawtaw Office approves building plans and has the owner's name (and I think, contact information) on those plans. Your moobaan developer might also have the names. The owner may well be more responsive than the contractor. Also if there any other homes within about 50 meters, see if you can get them to join your fight.

If you get to talk with the owner, you might suggest that they dig a foundation rather than drive piles. I have not done the engineering on it but probably a deeply dug foundation would be strong enough. Think of all the very old, large, still standing buildings that were put up on dug foundations before pile driving was developed.

Good luck and keep us posted. There are many of us who have empty lots next to our homes and may face this problem in the future.

Edited August 18, 2007 by Bill97

[cmsally]

I would advise same as previous; photos of all outside and inside walls , also pool, and position of pile driving in relation to house.

If you are outside Tesabahn area , go along to your local Or Bor Tor and check who is building and their plans etc. They must have submitted them for approval before they can start. Usually the piledrivers are a separate company hired by the construction company but if you can get their details you might be able to find out what kind of work they are going to do and what equipment they will use.

[chownah]

Get the pictures of conditions before and try to get a reliable citizen to witness your taking of the pictures...or hire it done...all this to verify date of pictures.....then before they start maybe ask about the trench...are they going to dig one?...then when they start you should monitor everything very carefully and at the first sign of anything untoward go stop them and have them come and examine the damage they have caused. Do get the names of the property owner, the general contractor and the sub doing the driving before hand and try to get an agreement that at first sign of any damage they will stop driving for a discussion including your representative on how to proceed....

[ThaiPauly]

Thanks for the replys folks......The developers are Land & House.

They have aleady blocked off a government drainage system ...they dont seem to care.

They have still not started, and there is not a lot I can do until Monday now,so I am going to try and forget about it for a few days ...enjoy the barbie tonight and then see what action I can take on Monday.

I have done all the pics, with a current edition of the BK Post in position

Thanks again,but any more advice...keepit coming...thanks

TP

[Crow Boy]

TP the other thing that you may have to consider is the noise. Not sure about rules in your moobarn but opposite my old apartment building in town they were putting up another one and the pile driver went from 6am until 10pm every day. Between the flood lights at night and the constant "crunnka crunnka Kabooom" it was a really painful experience.

For what its worth we had pictures and one of my wood carvings fall of the wall (fortunately without damage) on the first day and I had to take everything down for the whole time they were digging the pilings.

Sorry to add to your woes - I'll buy you a beer at the TV party to make up for it

CB

[ThaiPauly]

TP the other thing that you may have to consider is the noise. Not sure about rules in your moobarn but opposite my old apartment building in town they were putting up another one and the pile driver went from 6am until 10pm every day. Between the flood lights at night and the constant "crunnka crunnka Kabooom" it was a really painful experience.

For what its worth we had pictures and one of my wood carvings fall of the wall (fortunately without damage) on the first day and I had to take everything down for the whole time they were digging the pilings.

Sorry to add to your woes - I'll buy you a beer at the TV party to make up for it

CB

Don't worry Mate, you arn't adding to my woes....I am not that concerned about the noise, its the house crashing down round my ears that worries me

I am considering getting a slingshot from the night bazzar and using that on them if they start.

If they call the cops...all well and good then I can tell them why I am shooting at them...on the other hand they may just move the whole rig over the top of my wall and piledrive inside my boundaries.

Ah wellI suppose violence is not the answer ...but I will definatley consider a sit down protest...again they will have to call the cops to get me moved won't they

If only I had the right contacts

[ThaiPauly]

This is how close it is

[Bill97]

The developers are Land & House.

They have aleady blocked off a government drainage system ...they dont seem to care.

TP

Land and House will care if they get a lot of bad publicity and you might contact their head office in BKK if the local end does not respond. Last I heard, L&H used contractors for their building and the contractors do not care, it is a job for money. But L&H is big and really can not afford to have bad publicity from a legal action which would reduce sales. Who would buy land from them if there was a possibility that in the future a neighbor drove piles and damaged their home? Somebody in their BKK office will understand this.

[WaiWai]

Monday is a "sort of" holiday - more time might be useful to you. Good luck.

[Foggy Bottom]

The developers are Land & House.

They have aleady blocked off a government drainage system ...they dont seem to care.

TP

Land and House will care if they get a lot of bad publicity and you might contact their head office in BKK if the local end does not respond. Last I heard, L&H used contractors for their building and the contractors do not care, it is a job for money. But L&H is big and really can not afford to have bad publicity from a legal action which would reduce sales. Who would buy land from them if there was a possibility that in the future a neighbor drove piles and damaged their home? Somebody in their BKK office will understand this.

Paul - might be worth you contacting Sao ChiangMai on TV (Pim from CityLife magazine) she may be able to help out on the publicity front

And Bill 97 is right - L&H are known for luxury as well as mid-range developments and sell a lot to farang - last thing they'll want is a stroppy "former periodical owner" like yourself kicking up a stink with the media, especially the English language media within the Kingdom.

Edited August 18, 2007 by Gaz Chiangmai

[Magroot]

I hate to say it but IMHO your <deleted>$ked.

They will never do anything about it, unless you know like the mayor. Good luck.

[Tony Clifton]

Have the pile's cable cut.

[Rinrada]

TP...looking at the pic you posted it looks more like a drilling rig that they have set up rather than a pile driver...have you checked.?

Spoke to KW about it ..she used to own a company in bangers and had about 20 of them on the go at one one...but her dad liked the horses a bit too much...another story.

She /they used to do contracts for the likes of land and homes and always made sure that they never caused any damage to any other properties (mostly government building sites anyway......so)

Anyway she recons that big outfits like L&H ..Ital T,Siggi Berger ..etc are all pretty responsible and dont go for bad publicity and suggests that if in doubt.... just call the boss... or alternatively as above give our new Mayor a call.....she is ib for election again in 9 months time..was educated in the US and gotta admit looks a bit of a cracker......

[ThaiPauly]

Thanks for the replies once more.

We went to the Cop Shop yesterday and have a copy of the policereport we have made and they have agreed that the pictures we have shown them show no damage.

They said they were unable to do anything and we would have to go to the government offices.

Unfortunatley they are closed till Tuesday as tomorrow they will be counting referendum resluts.

They have been again today moving it about..if they come again in the morning we will show them the police report (well wave it at them and tell them if they start we will call the police.....just to buy some more time.

TP

[Solosiam]

I take it that it's not on your land!

Unless you have some strange clause in your land title that stops people doing what they like with their own nearby land, I'm not sure what you expect to be able to do.

There's plenty of skyscrapers in Bangkok that are 20 metres apart, what exactly do you expect to happen?

Perhaps you should buy more land next time if you want to dictate what people can do nearby.