Turbo Timer

[ramus]

What is turbo timer? Do I need for Toyota Fortuner? Where can I buy it?

[Cobalt60]

Turbo timer is a device that leaves your engine running after you turn off your ignition to allow your turbo to cool down and get oil to help extend the life of the turbo, so if you have a turbo, then yes you could use one, bit of a gimmick in my opinion.... they are illegal in some countrys. (engine running car un attended)

[Pomthai]

Turbo timer is an electronic device that keeps the engine running for a preset or computed time depending on speed/rpm after you have switched off & removed the key. Its purpose is to allow oil to flow through turbo whilst the engine is idling, thus cooling and supplying lubrication to the turbine as it slows down after a long / hard run. Turbines in the turbo spin at very high speed and if you just switched off the engine after hammering it, bearing damage could occur while it spools down. The timer minimizes the chances of this.

Other added bonuses are you can set it keep the engine on and leave the AC on while you run into a shop to grab some cold beer but you can still lock the doors.

As to weather you need one with modern diesels thats something that could be debated for a long time. From my view point its not neccesary a have but letting the engine idle for 30 secs or so after a long hard run will help cool thing off. People often forget that once you switch of the engine generally gets hotter as theres no fans or water pump removing the latent heat.

Edit-: I got beaten to it; what he said ^

Edited August 18, 2007 by Pomthai

[Cobalt60]

You went into more detail though I think they are more designed for the high performance cars, I never bothered with one for my Skyline, never had turbo problems with it.

[teejay]

if the turbo is oil and water cooled it is totally unnecessary. for a fortuner, even more unecessary, as it's not in the class of cars that would need a turbo timer.

[ramus]

Thank you very much for your explanations.

[cheshiremusicman]

if the turbo is oil and water cooled it is totally unnecessary. for a fortuner, even more unecessary, as it's not in the class of cars that would need a turbo timer.

Forgive me for asking, but are you saying that the 'turbo' on the Fortuner / Vigo etc Toyota's are water cooled?

I don't see what difference it makes, as to what kind of vehicle the 'turbo' is fitted to, as surely it is still doing the same job irrespective of the performance of the vehicle. I know that a lot of newer vehicles have got ' Low pressure turbo's',

but they still 'spin' at a heck of lick and won't that mean that they still need time for the oil to circulate around the turbo bearings to stop the oil 'carbonising' or causing a deterioration in the oil feed pipes to the turbo.

I had a Saab turbo many years back and when you had been driving it at a fair lick for some distance you could see the turbo body glowing orange - pretty frightening the first time you witness this with the bonnet up, but Saab engineers told me it was par for the course. I used to allow the engine to tick over for some minute or two before switching off the engine as a previous person has stated ( and as advised by Saab) and this I beleive is probably still the best thing to do. I got 120,000 miles out of the Saab turbo before it expired one day without any warning - wondered what the h-ll was going on behind me when I took off from a set of traffic lights and saw this enormous cloud of smoke in the mirror - it was pretty frightening with the smoke pouring out from under the bonnet within the space of a minute or two and I could barely see where I was going. I was told that nearly all the turbo's that are used today have 'ceramic bearings' and these will last considerably longer than the previous bearings. Another thing that will probably help extend the life of a modern tubo will no doubt be the improved qualities of the oils used for lubrication in this day an age.

The only problem I have, is remembering to do what I've just said I should do when I come to switch the engine off - getting old and the memory is not what it used to be, so maybe an electronic device would be a great help.

[elkangorito]

My comments in red.

if the turbo is oil and water cooled it is totally unnecessary. for a fortuner, even more unecessary, as it's not in the class of cars that would need a turbo timer.

Forgive me for asking, but are you saying that the 'turbo' on the Fortuner / Vigo etc Toyota's are water cooled?

I don't see what difference it makes, as to what kind of vehicle the 'turbo' is fitted to, as surely it is still doing the same job irrespective of the performance of the vehicle.

Absolutely correct!! It has nothing to do with 'class of car' or 'water cooling'.

I know that a lot of newer vehicles have got ' Low pressure turbo's',

but they still 'spin' at a heck of lick and won't that mean that they still need time for the oil to circulate around the turbo bearings to stop the oil 'carbonising' or causing a deterioration in the oil feed pipes to the turbo.

Some people have hinted at the correct idea, which is - a turbo charger spins at very high RPM if the vehicle is under high load. So, if you've just had your foot down for a long period (this is disregarding speed), the turbo will be spinning very bloody fast. It can take up to 3 minutes for a fast spinning turbo to spin down. For those who have been involved with trucks (& I mean trucks, like Atkinson, Kenworth etc), you may have noticed a small conical shaped thing sitting between the supply & exhaust turbo rotors. This is an oil reservoir, which allows the engine to be switched without the need for a 'spin down' period.

I had a Saab turbo many years back and when you had been driving it at a fair lick for some distance you could see the turbo body glowing orange - pretty frightening the first time you witness this with the bonnet up, but Saab engineers told me it was par for the course. I used to allow the engine to tick over for some minute or two before switching off the engine as a previous person has stated ( and as advised by Saab) and this I beleive is probably still the best thing to do.

Absolutely agree. I once had a turbo charged diesel Landcruiser, which I religiously allowed to idle for at least 30 seconds before shutdown. I allowed a couple of minutes if I had been flogging it. This was also the advice given to me by Garrett/Air Research, the manufacturers of the turbo.

I got 120,000 miles out of the Saab turbo before it expired one day without any warning - wondered what the h-ll was going on behind me when I took off from a set of traffic lights and saw this enormous cloud of smoke in the mirror - it was pretty frightening with the smoke pouring out from under the bonnet within the space of a minute or two and I could barely see where I was going. I was told that nearly all the turbo's that are used today have 'ceramic bearings' and these will last considerably longer than the previous bearings. Another thing that will probably help extend the life of a modern tubo will no doubt be the improved qualities of the oils used for lubrication in this day an age.

I used to use Golden Fleece DELO 400 engine oil in my Landcruiser. If it wasn't turbo charged, I could've used DELO 200.

The only problem I have, is remembering to do what I've just said I should do when I come to switch the engine off - getting old and the memory is not what it used to be, so maybe an electronic device would be a great help.

[Gary A]

Turbo or not, it's always a good idea to let an engine idle for a minute or so after it has been run hard. The coolant will actually boil inside the cylinder head creating small hot spots and possible small cracks if a hot engine is turned off quickly. The water quits circulating when the engine stops. Modern turbos are much better than just a few years ago but it certainly doesn't hurt to allow them to cool down a little. I wouldn't bother with a timer but don't be in a big hurry to shut it off.

[sibeymai]

never had a turbo timer on my Nissan 200SX and it had similar performance to the Subaru WRX, neither of which comes standard from the factory with a turbo timer. Nor odes the Vigo or Fortuner, so this should tell you something.

I see it as a gimmick, nothing more. In early turbos it may have been beneficial. I hammered the Nissan many times a did a lot of start/stop driving. It did 120,000kms without any complaint. I don't know what material the bearings were but as with any moving part eventually it will fail. If failure is per the manufavtures averge spec then no complaint. Nothing lasts forever. If turbo timers really were going to give you much better longevity I'm sure manufacturers would make then standard and not options.

Ceramic bearings may be a great improvement over steel and other materials but I wonder why haven't magnetic bearings been used ? Very simple and absolutely no wear and tear. The turbo would probably last longer than the engine.

[cheshiremusicman]

Ceramic bearings may be a great improvement over steel and other materials but I wonder why haven't magnetic bearings been used ? Very simple and absolutely no wear and tear. The turbo would probably last longer than the engine.

Hi 'sibeymai'. I've not come across 'magnetic bearings ' before, but the idea sounds great. What have you seen them used on upto now, just as a matter of interest.

[elkangorito]

A turbo timer is not a gimmick. It also has little to do with cooling the turbo. Its' primary use is to ensure turbo bearing/bush lubrication whilst it is still spinning at high RPM, thus the requirement for the engine to run (& supply oil) until the turbo spins down. As I said before, many large trucks use a conical oil reservoir located between the exhaust & supply rotors, which negates the requirement of a shutdown timer.

Also, some turbos are fitted with a brake, which quickly slows the turbo under no load conditions. If such a device is fitted, a spin down time is not required. Do not confuse this device with a 'waste gate'.

Unless otherwise advised by a manufacturer/supplier, a smart person would let the vehicle idle for a time before shutting it down. If you want this process automated, install a timer. In any case, check with the manufacturer/supplier to verify what you need to do to ensure a long & problem free life from your turbo.

[elkangorito]

If turbo timers really were going to give you much better longevity I'm sure manufacturers would make then standard and not options.

Did you know that if you allow your diesel powered vehicle to idle or run at low RPM without a load for too long, it will cause 'glazing' of the cylinders? It takes about 4 hours plus to cause such a problem & the repair cost is much greater than replacing a turbo. Does the manufacturer install an "I've been idling/running at low load/low RPM for too long" timer? Of course not. But I'll bet if you read the owners/operaters manual, it will be mentioned.

Ceramic bearings may be a great improvement over steel and other materials but I wonder why haven't magnetic bearings been used ? Very simple and absolutely no wear and tear. The turbo would probably last longer than the engine.

This would be all well & good except that magnets are destroyed by excessive heat & vibration, both of which a turbo generates.

[sibeymai]

Ceramic bearings may be a great improvement over steel and other materials but I wonder why haven't magnetic bearings been used ? Very simple and absolutely no wear and tear. The turbo would probably last longer than the engine.

Hi 'sibeymai'. I've not come across 'magnetic bearings ' before, but the idea sounds great. What have you seen them used on upto now, just as a matter of interest.

The concept of frictionless magnetic bearings is the same principle employed in magnetic levitation trains. It may be technically difficult to employ magnets in a revolving bearing application but probably not impossible.

[cheshiremusicman]

If turbo timers really were going to give you much better longevity I'm sure manufacturers would make then standard and not options.

Did you know that if you allow your diesel powered vehicle to idle or run at low RPM without a load for too long, it will cause 'glazing' of the cylinders? It takes about 4 hours plus to cause such a problem & the repair cost is much greater than replacing a turbo. Does the manufacturer install an "I've been idling/running at low load/low RPM for too long" timer? Of course not. But I'll bet if you read the owners/operaters manual, it will be mentioned.

Ceramic bearings may be a great improvement over steel and other materials but I wonder why haven't magnetic bearings been used ? Very simple and absolutely no wear and tear. The turbo would probably last longer than the engine.

This would be all well & good except that magnets are destroyed by excessive heat & vibration, both of which a turbo generates.

Can I ask, who in their right mind is going to "let an engine idle for about 4 hours"? Albeit I take your point about the "glazing" but does this not occur to some extent on the cylinder walls as a consequence of 'normal' running? I seem to recollect that years ago, when I used to do my own engine repairs, that the cylinder walls (petrol engines granted) had what I would have described as "glazing" or was I seeing some other effect?

Interesting about the 'magnetic bearings', but why the comment about vibration? If the turbo is running normally, there should not be vibration; otherwise it would wreck itself in no time.

[sibeymai]

If turbo timers really were going to give you much better longevity I'm sure manufacturers would make then standard and not options.

Did you know that if you allow your diesel powered vehicle to idle or run at low RPM without a load for too long, it will cause 'glazing' of the cylinders? It takes about 4 hours plus to cause such a problem & the repair cost is much greater than replacing a turbo. Does the manufacturer install an "I've been idling/running at low load/low RPM for too long" timer? Of course not. But I'll bet if you read the owners/operaters manual, it will be mentioned.

Ceramic bearings may be a great improvement over steel and other materials but I wonder why haven't magnetic bearings been used ? Very simple and absolutely no wear and tear. The turbo would probably last longer than the engine.

This would be all well & good except that magnets are destroyed by excessive heat & vibration, both of which a turbo generates.

Can I ask, who in their right mind is going to "let an engine idle for about 4 hours"? Albeit I take your point about the "glazing" but does this not occur to some extent on the cylinder walls as a consequence of 'normal' running? I seem to recollect that years ago, when I used to do my own engine repairs, that the cylinder walls (petrol engines granted) had what I would have described as "glazing" or was I seeing some other effect?

Interesting about the 'magnetic bearings', but why the comment about vibration? If the turbo is running normally, there should not be vibration; otherwise it would wreck itself in no time.

There must be some reasons why magnetic bearings are not being used in turbos although heat and vibration probably aren't the reasons. Magnets work just fine in electric motors which would experience similar amounts of heat and vibration.

[Gary A]

Idle for four hours, you bet. In the US many truck drivers have what they call a sleeper cab. In the winter the truck idles all night for two main reasons. The driver wants to keep warm and if he does shut it off, the diesel may not not start on a very cold morning. In Ohio years ago when I was farming, my John Deere diesel tractor would not start in the winter without the block heater and the crankcase heater turned on for several hours.

[cheshiremusicman]

Idle for four hours, you bet. In the US many truck drivers have what they call a sleeper cab. In the winter the truck idles all night for two main reasons. The driver wants to keep warm and if he does shut it off, the diesel may not not start on a very cold morning. In Ohio years ago when I was farming, my John Deere diesel tractor would not start in the winter without the block heater and the crankcase heater turned on for several hours.

Ok sorry, I wasn't thinking in terms of the big commercial trucks and don't come from a country where these temperatures are experienced. So how do they overcome the 'glazing' problem - or do they just live with it and accept the consequences?

[mikethevigoman]

If they were a nessessity the manufacturers would fit them ,as they dont you bet your like they are in fact a gimmick, if you are racing in a highly tuned car it may be benificial or if are caning it down a motorway and have to leap out of the car at the motorway services and releive yourself instantly.other than that its about as much use a chocolate fireguard,

[mikethevigoman]

Ceramic bearings may be a great improvement over steel and other materials but I wonder why haven't magnetic bearings been used ? Very simple and absolutely no wear and tear. The turbo would probably last longer than the engine.

Hi 'sibeymai'. I've not come across 'magnetic bearings ' before, but the idea sounds great. What have you seen them used on upto now, just as a matter of interest.

Werent those magnetic bearings made by the same company that made high compression handlbars for motorbikes !

[elkangorito]

If turbo timers really were going to give you much better longevity I'm sure manufacturers would make then standard and not options.

Did you know that if you allow your diesel powered vehicle to idle or run at low RPM without a load for too long, it will cause 'glazing' of the cylinders? It takes about 4 hours plus to cause such a problem & the repair cost is much greater than replacing a turbo. Does the manufacturer install an "I've been idling/running at low load/low RPM for too long" timer? Of course not. But I'll bet if you read the owners/operaters manual, it will be mentioned.

Ceramic bearings may be a great improvement over steel and other materials but I wonder why haven't magnetic bearings been used ? Very simple and absolutely no wear and tear. The turbo would probably last longer than the engine.

This would be all well & good except that magnets are destroyed by excessive heat & vibration, both of which a turbo generates.

Can I ask, who in their right mind is going to "let an engine idle for about 4 hours"? Albeit I take your point about the "glazing" but does this not occur to some extent on the cylinder walls as a consequence of 'normal' running? I seem to recollect that years ago, when I used to do my own engine repairs, that the cylinder walls (petrol engines granted) had what I would have described as "glazing" or was I seeing some other effect?

Interesting about the 'magnetic bearings', but why the comment about vibration? If the turbo is running normally, there should not be vibration; otherwise it would wreck itself in no time.

Combine the extreme heat produced, which alone can destroy a magnet, any amount of vibration will worsen the situation.

There must be some reasons why magnetic bearings are not being used in turbos although heat and vibration probably aren't the reasons. Magnets work just fine in electric motors which would experience similar amounts of heat and vibration.

I've never heard of magnetic bearings used in electric motors. Give me one instance.

Idle for four hours, you bet. In the US many truck drivers have what they call a sleeper cab. In the winter the truck idles all night for two main reasons. The driver wants to keep warm and if he does shut it off, the diesel may not not start on a very cold morning. In Ohio years ago when I was farming, my John Deere diesel tractor would not start in the winter without the block heater and the crankcase heater turned on for several hours.

I do recall that when I was on the Freemantle Class patrol boats in the RAN (navy), the harbour engine never lasted too long before it had to be rebuilt. Why? The particular engine (diesel) was not designed to rev but to idle, much like the diesel engine in a high rise construction crane, which can spend hours idling before it required for use.

For those of you that think turbo timers are a gimmick, I suggest you go away & found out exactly why they are not installed into modern vehicles. In the meantime, if the turbo does not have its' own braking mechanism (or some other protection mechanism), it is highly likely that the bearings will suffer if the engine is shut down too soon after being inder high load.

[sibeymai]

I've never heard of magnetic bearings used in electric motors. Give me one instance.

I've not heard of a practical application of magnetic bearings although in theory it should be possible to suspend a shaft within a magnetic field. Perhaps it is not technically possible due to problems created by rotating magnetic fields. Considering the benefits of a frictionless bearing, if it was possible to use magnets to achieve this I suppose someone would have figured out how to do it by now.

[dave_boo]

I was going to point out the fact that many diesel engines idle for great lenghts of time with out incident, but of course Gary A beat me to it. In fact, the only engines I know about glazing over are the high compression high performance petrol engines. And I am not sure if a contributing factor is the quality of petrol is used in them, although it is logical that higher amounts of varnishing agents would case the described problem. Since turbocharged engines are usually a low compression type of engine, I would assume that they would not be at risk regardless as to the type of dino-juice they drink.

[sibeymai]

Sailors are very aware that running diesel auxiliaries solely for the purposes of charging batteries will, over time, cause cylinder glazing and shorten the life of the engine. Most sailors now use wind, solar or propellor shaft generators for battery charging and use diesels only for motive power.

[Lickey]

A turbo does not do anything until the engine requiers it to, ie, engine asking for help under load,

Extended tick-over periods will cause bore glazing turboed or non-turboed. , perhaps 30 hours or more, but not all in one hit,

Intercooled turbos run a lot cooler, so perhaps a 15 sec tick-over cool down is suffiecient?

A viabrating turbo??? is this some kind of wind-up?

Worn turboed engines will reduce power quickly, due to the turbo pressure blowing past the piston rings and washing the bores,causing blow-by, excesive crank case pressure and oil leaks.

In our village, pick-ups are used for what they are designed for, farm produce,market stalls, builders ect, all are very old and sound healthy, because they are used in this way, the diesel engine comes into its own,working hard and self cleaning, but hey! who keeps a vehicle more than 2 years anyway?

[elkangorito]

I've never heard of magnetic bearings used in electric motors. Give me one instance.

I've not heard of a practical application of magnetic bearings although in theory it should be possible to suspend a shaft within a magnetic field. Perhaps it is not technically possible due to problems created by rotating magnetic fields. Considering the benefits of a frictionless bearing, if it was possible to use magnets to achieve this I suppose someone would have figured out how to do it by now.

In a previous post, someone mentioned something about trains & magnets. In this application, the magnets are not used as bearings but are used to create a magnetic field by which the train is supported. there are no moving parts in this application. And yes, I agree with you...if it was possible to use magnets to achieve this (act as a rotating bearing in a turbo-charger) I suppose someone would have figured out how to do it by now.

I was going to point out the fact that many diesel engines idle for great lenghts of time with out incident, but of course Gary A beat me to it. In fact, the only engines I know about glazing over are the high compression high performance petrol engines. And I am not sure if a contributing factor is the quality of petrol is used in them, although it is logical that higher amounts of varnishing agents would case the described problem. Since turbocharged engines are usually a low compression type of engine, I would assume that they would not be at risk regardless as to the type of dino-juice they drink.

Years ago, my father had a Toyota Landcruiser troop carrier with a 3.6 Litre diesel 'H' engine, as a company vehicle. One day, he spent about 12 hours trying to drag large bulldozer parts around an open-cut coal mine (the parts were very large & heavy). After this, he noticed that the vehicle was using large quantities of engine oil. The diagnosis - glazed cylinders, all after 8 hours. How did he do it? He would drag the parts a couple of metres & then stop to re-adjust the method of dragging. The readjustment time took an hour. So essentially, the engine did little work & idled most of the time. Don't ask me why he did this...it sounds a bit crazy to me. The vehicle was about 1 year old & very well maintained.

Sailors are very aware that running diesel auxiliaries solely for the purposes of charging batteries will, over time, cause cylinder glazing and shorten the life of the engine. Most sailors now use wind, solar or propellor shaft generators for battery charging and use diesels only for motive power.

My mention of the 'harbour' engine refers to the engine on patrol boats that propels the vessel while in a harbour. This particular motor was never used for any other purpose. The motor was used as a matter of 'orders'. It was simply a design mistake. In some instances, a smart skipper would not do this & instead, use one of the sea-going engines to do this job (PACMAN-MCU 16 cylinder twin turbo diesels).

[sibeymai]

My mention of the 'harbour' engine refers to the engine on patrol boats that propels the vessel while in a harbour. This particular motor was never used for any other purpose. The motor was used as a matter of 'orders'. It was simply a design mistake. In some instances, a smart skipper would not do this & instead, use one of the sea-going engines to do this job (PACMAN-MCU 16 cylinder twin turbo diesels).

Assuming the harbour engine is of much smaller horsepower than the seagoing engines and would therefore be working under more load than a larger seagoing engine when used for manoeuvering within the harbour confines, why would the old man choose to run in harbour on a seagoing engine ? Wouldn't the lower comparative load on the seagoing engine operating at low speed cause a greater propensity for cylinder glazing ? Surely the installation of a dedicated harbour engine is specifically to avoid just this type of usage of the seagoing engines.

[Lickey]

Sibeymai, any engine at low revs will not reach the required oil tempeture, causing a yellowing in the lower bores and on the piston skirt, eventually causing the oil scraper ring to gum up, and make the engine smoke, Turboes do nothing at tickover, perhaps turn a little, but no work, If an engine is brought up to normal opo temp, then allowed to tick-over, this problem of yellowing doesnt occur, but i could be wrong, im sure we will all know soon!!