I Just Don't Get It.

[Falang Pan]

As meadish_sweetball points out, is it really more mature to have to be 'right' or every trivial incident?

Trivial incidents can be ignored, but the underlying problem of barriers to honest communication is to me not trivial. Not every issue caused by this problem is trivial either.

And adding to the exasperation is that in many such circumstances there seem to be no logical reason whatsoever why the small lie was told. Wouldn't it just be easier to answer such a question truthfully than to make up a lie?

I think love -- and therefore true intimacy -- rests on mutual respect. The little lies etc undermine this so it's no wonder you feel your value system being eroded. Gaps in your level of education, world outlook, even intelligence, etc, pale in comparison to problems introduced by lack of respect and open and honest cummunication.

Hi TypicalAnonym. I have no comment to contribute to your posts other than that we seem to be of like mind on the subject, and I appreciate your ability to put your experience into words. Thanks for sharing. Really. It helps.

[Tornado]

Falang Pan, do you think you could be the problem?! You seem to be very over the top regarding one girl on one day?!

You remind me of my step mother who had to get the last word and rave on continuously until she "was heard"..... have a xanax or get out of the teaching business as I think you have chosen the wrong profession.

Sorry mate, but you a raving on like an old mole.

[rod_kalashnikov]

 

[Tornado]

I was undecided, now Im not so sure.

[Englishman]

Thanks for confirming the pattern. Sigh, I guess there is nothing for it but to try to let such situations go.

For one moment there, I thought he'd got it. I was wrong

Mekong and coke all round, I'm buying. Ice in yours, Tornado?

[Axel]

Let's stay serious in here. At least one man we know of, who really admitted in public having made a mistake.

Well, it was an honest mistake.

[Falang Pan]

Thanks for confirming the pattern. Sigh, I guess there is nothing for it but to try to let such situations go.

For one moment there, I thought he'd got it. I was wrong

Mekong and coke all round, I'm buying. Ice in yours, Tornado?

Hi Englishman.

I've enjoyed your posts.

I'm not sure if you are trying to end or continue a discussion.

I appreciate your ability to not take life too seriously. What are your limits? Surely you are not an alcoholic nihilist chewing on the import of the the mantra "mai pen rai... mai pen rai"

[Dickie]

You were lovers, you split up, she has a new fella and you expect her to be friends? It's not normally at a level of intimacy and fondness that you seem to want. She's your ex and, therefore, doesn't have to accept your version of anything which she clearly doesn't. Ex's have a habit of going on a wind-up, so experience tells me. Best to walk away, m'thinks.

[Falang Pan]

You were lovers, you split up, she has a new fella and you expect her to be friends? It's not normally at a level of intimacy and fondness that you seem to want. She's your ex and, therefore, doesn't have to accept your version of anything which she clearly doesn't. Ex's have a habit of going on a wind-up, so experience tells me. Best to walk away, m'thinks.

So your opinion is that cultural diffences and the Thai emphasis on Face is not involved in this particular incident. Ok. Have you had experiences of face being a barrier to open communication here?

[Insight]

Soz, post removed. Wrong thread!

[Rhys]

Don't sweat it.. let them make a fool of themself... your the native speaker..

EGO... FACE....All that... Especially if they have a Ph.D. and have studied abroad..which then means they are an expert..

Smile..and say..OK.. You have other things more important..to think and enjoy..

In Thai..the word for keep or place.. just tell her that word for the the word..

Oh Khon chalart..FAAK THAT.. GIN PHOM.. And say it in your worst Essan accent..

[andyinkat]

I thought of you this morning Falang Pan.

There's this news item about how a camera team managed to film a hostage scene in Taiwan. The machine-gun toting miscreants tried to take a really old guy hostage but shots were fired and the old geezer managed to slip away.

Interviewed afterwards he said he thought they were police; if he'd known they were bad guys he'd have slugged them - he's not afraid of guns.

Now that's 'face' - what a load!

To foresee is to be forewarned. I'm learning. Cheers!

[ASIC]

What is childish for you, may be "cute" for Thais. Maybe you just don't have any humour? It may be difficult, but try accepting that the absolute truth is not absolute.

I think this is a phase all foreigners here go through, and -may I add- never stop going through. We all learn new things about life, about ourselves,and about our outlook on life, every day. I think this is one of the things that make Thailand so fascinating.

Have an open mind. Accept there is no such thing as a universal right and wrong. Some adapt, and find inner peace in The Realm, and some don't.

As an example of how bad it can go, our last customer never managed to adapt, kept doing everyting the "Canadian" way, insulting local people and eventually had to leave. The Thais have (genious) ways of getting back at you. You won't even know it's coming.

Learn to adapt. Go with the flow. Keep Cool. Mekong and Coke. Honest Mistakes. It's all "Mai Pen Rai". You will find life very enjoyable then.

ASIC

[Dickie]

So your opinion is that cultural diffences and the Thai emphasis on Face is not involved in this particular incident.  Ok.  Have you had experiences of face being a barrier to open communication here?

No, but then I don't attempt any sort of open communication with an ex. 'Ex' is just that, in my book. 'Move on' is my motto.

[Falang Pan]

It may be difficult, but try accepting that the absolute truth is not absolute.

I think this is a phase all foreigners here go through, and -may I add- never stop going through. We all learn new things about life, about ourselves,and about our outlook on life, every day. I think this is one of the things that make Thailand so fascinating.

Have an open mind. Accept there is no such thing as a universal right and wrong. Some adapt, and find inner peace in The Realm, and some don't.

As an example of how bad it can go, our last customer never managed to adapt, kept doing everyting the "Canadian" way, insulting local people and eventually had to leave. The Thais have (genious) ways of getting back at you. You won't even know it's coming.

Learn to adapt. Go with the flow. Keep Cool. Mekong and Coke. Honest Mistakes. It's all "Mai Pen Rai". You will find life very enjoyable then.

ASIC

It may be difficult for you, but try accepting that not everyone is a multiculturalist/nihilist that doesn't believe in any ultimate meaning. Some of us prefer to not only see that meaning is relative, but to notice values and patterns among different ways to see the world. Just because all meaning is relative does not mean that meaning is meaningless. In fact, you can't posit meaninglessness, as that statement would be meaningless.

In other words, having and using the tools of introspection is BETTER than having your own wordview so enmeshed in your culture that you can't even examine yourself. Having the cognitive development that allows for empathy is BETTER than childish selfishness. Having the cognitive development that allows for logical rational discourse that can critisize mistakes in thought in oneself and in others is BETTER than only being capable of taking a stand based on emotions, and choosing to see only what fits your argument and discard all else.

Etc.

If you and others who want to integrate here want to just say "may pen rai", and just get along, great. I understand.

As my previous comments have clearly stated, I find meaning and value in intimacy, and feel that deeper intimacy is BETTER than intimacy barred by lies and avoidances and face saving inanity.

[igotworms]

As an example of how bad it can go, our last customer never managed to adapt, kept doing everyting the "Canadian" way, insulting local people and eventually had to leave. The Thais have (genious) ways of getting back at you. You won't even know it's coming.

The Canadian way is the only way go eh! Stupid hosers. Lets play some hockey. Did you see that moose?

Did this CDN customer of yours sport a sweet mullet? Mullet wearing Canadians are not usually the most adaptable folk, inclined towards wearing stained wife beater shirts and a knack for coming off as slightly ignorant. Mullets are the shit. Wish I had one.

Original poster,

Perhaps your Thai teacher/lady friend was thinking about the word rowdy. Or perhaps she liked watching you erupt over a petty argument.

[igotworms]

As an example of how bad it can go, our last customer never managed to adapt, kept doing everyting the "Canadian" way, insulting local people and eventually had to leave. The Thais have (genious) ways of getting back at you. You won't even know it's coming.

Asic Gel,

Are you a pimp? We don't like International pimps. What service do you offer?

[Falang Pan]

I know it is unwise to post innebriated, but I invite the multicult/nihilists to consider if consorting with teenage culture is as personally as satisfying as consorting with peers.

Myself, I love consorting with teens. Ooohhhhh, teens.

But there is a culture difference there, isn't there?

I suspect that those who do not want there to be culture differences between countries do not want there to be culture differences between countries.

Ya, it is an insulting analogy, but think about it. Seriously. Teens do have a culture. If all culture is truly merely relative and merely different and equal, consider teen culture as seriously as you consider the cultures among any groups.

[Falang Pan]

A little update:

At the time that I was showing my incredible frustration to my Thai teacher that she refused to listen to either me or the online dictionary, I had mentioned that I had heard that Thais find it difficult to accept critisism, but that it was beyond my capability to understand her behaviour. I think that comment registered. She likes to associate herself with Falang culture, and sometimes says that she doesn't feel 100% Thai.

Today, when I corrected her pronunciations, she was very active in getting me to repeat the corrections, and she often asked me if her pronunciations were correct.

On my part, I might say "yes that's right" when she had said it wrong, and then repeat it the correct way, which she would repeat.

So some adjustments in the long term have happened. The original questions about intimacy and the problems caused by excessive pride do remain, and I don't see this as confirming that the Thai system is merely different but equally workable. But at least yes, there is some workability.

[Tornado]

www.ajarn.com - they were asking about you