I was surprised to see Lviv Ukraine on a list of suggested charming places to retire abroad.

Very interesting but clearly a tad premature as Ukraine is still at war and Lviv although very far from the front still suffers terrorist attacks from Putin's Russia.

But now that it's clear that Ukraine is winning the war it's only a matter of time (how many years?) before Ukraine is more commonly on the same retirement abroad lists as Bulgaria. Slovenia, Albania, Serbia, etc.

Even now Ukraine has a quite easy path to permanent residency though of course no retirement visa and mostly they're looking for skilled professionals to do vital work during wartime when so many Ukrainian men are otherwise occupied, fled abroad, wounded, or dead.

It is still wartime of course. Don't mean to sugarcoat it. But for the future, why not?

Years ago I worked for a short time with an Englishman who was building the groundwork for future tourism of Americans to Vietnam. It felt very eccentric at the time, but look at Vietnam now!

Edited April 30Apr 30 by Jingthing

59 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

But now that it's clear that Ukraine is winning the war it's only a matter of time (how many years?) before Ukraine is more commonly on the same retirement abroad lists as Bulgaria. Slovenia, Albania, Serbia, etc

Got it. Keep shilling for your bros.

On 4/30/2026 at 2:30 PM, Jingthing said:

I was surprised to see Lviv Ukraine on a list of suggested charming places to retire abroad.

Very interesting but clearly a tad premature as Ukraine is still at war and Lviv although very far from the front still suffers terrorist attacks from Putin's Russia.

But now that it's clear that Ukraine is winning the war it's only a matter of time (how many years?) before Ukraine is more commonly on the same retirement abroad lists as Bulgaria. Slovenia, Albania, Serbia, etc.

Even now Ukraine has a quite easy path to permanent residency though of course no retirement visa and mostly they're looking for skilled professionals to do vital work during wartime when so many Ukrainian men are otherwise occupied, fled abroad, wounded, or dead.

It is still wartime of course. Don't mean to sugarcoat it. But for the future, why not?

Years ago I worked for a short time with an Englishman who was building the groundwork for future tourism of Americans to Vietnam. It felt very eccentric at the time, but look at Vietnam now!

On 4/30/2026 at 2:30 PM, Jingthing said:

I was surprised to see Lviv Ukraine on a list of suggested charming places to retire abroad.

Very interesting but clearly a tad premature as Ukraine is still at war and Lviv although very far from the front still suffers terrorist attacks from Putin's Russia.

But now that it's clear that Ukraine is winning the war it's only a matter of time (how many years?) before Ukraine is more commonly on the same retirement abroad lists as Bulgaria. Slovenia, Albania, Serbia, etc.

Even now Ukraine has a quite easy path to permanent residency though of course no retirement visa and mostly they're looking for skilled professionals to do vital work during wartime when so many Ukrainian men are otherwise occupied, fled abroad, wounded, or dead.

It is still wartime of course. Don't mean to sugarcoat it. But for the future, why not?

Years ago I worked for a short time with an Englishman who was building the groundwork for future tourism of Americans to Vietnam. It felt very eccentric at the time, but look at Vietnam now!

Lots of Western Investors are awaiting the end of the war in the Ukraine. They will be very welcome when it comes to "rebuild" the Ukraine.

Unfortunately, Western Retirees (on a budget) will not receive the "red carpet" treatement as the "investors".

It's a worldwide phnomenon. To gain permanent residency you have to show a "fat wallet". For those that don't have a fat wallet, the doors are closing.

Long gone are the days when healthy Europeans were welcome at Ellis Island or in Buenos Aires. Inspite of it all, it might be a good idea to stay in Thailand.

9 hours ago, swissie said:

Lots of Western Investors are awaiting the end of the war in the Ukraine. They will be very welcome when it comes to "rebuild" the Ukraine.

Unfortunately, Western Retirees (on a budget) will not receive the "red carpet" treatement as the "investors".

It's a worldwide phnomenon. To gain permanent residency you have to show a "fat wallet". For those that don't have a fat wallet, the doors are closing.

Long gone are the days when healthy Europeans were welcome at Ellis Island or in Buenos Aires. Inspite of it all, it might be a good idea to stay in Thailand.

As a generality I think you're right, immigration is getting more difficult.

Currently, I really feel sorry for Russians (in many cases their very best people) who for whatever reason don't want to live in Putin's Russia. To me, it's shameful that more countries haven't been more open to them, and the majority who have fled to the few countries thay can go to (including Thailand) usually are living very precarious existences as far as their residence status.

Of course, screen well for criminals and spies though.

This topic is about retirement status though. There is a plethora of decent choices now, with different levels of residency security offered. Thailand has a relatively easy path but sadly no residence security.

It's easy to predict that after Ukraine wins the war, especially if they can retake Crimea which has now shifted from seemingly impossible to at least within the realm of imaginable outcomes, that they will use foreign retirees as an easy way to help boost their economy. But as far as the time line for that. hard to say, but not anytime very soon.

Edited May 2May 2 by Jingthing

I mentioned Bulgaria before as an example of the kind of country Ukraine could become as far as retirement expatriation.

I happened to have taken a fresh look at the current situation for retired expats in Bulgaria. In particular, comparing it to Albania.

There are some interesting and strong pros and cons in that comparison likely boiling down to personal preferences.

The obvious difference being you can move as a retired expat to Bulgaria or Albania right now.

Maybe you technically move to Ukraine now to retire in Lviv (not sure) but it's very doubtful many people would want to.

There are always oddball people.

Westerners have been moving to Russia since the war for both normal (family ties) and ideological reasons.

Edited May 2May 2 by Jingthing

Just now, Jingthing said:

I mentioned Bulgaria before as an example of the kind of country Ukraine could become as far as retirement expatriation.

I happened to have taken a fresh look at the current situation for retired expats in Bulgaria. In particular, comparing it to Albania.

There are some interesting and strong pros and cons in that comparison likely boiling down to personal preferences.

The obvious difference being you can move as a retired expat to Bulgaria or Albania right now.

Maybe you technically move to Ukraine now to retire in Lviv (not sure) but it's very doubtful many people would want to.

There are always oddball people.

Westerners have been moving to Russia since the war for both normal (family ties) and ideological reasons.

I worked in Bulgaria and would recommend it.

Sure, Ukraine is lovely, but I'm holding out for Gaza. I hear it's gonna be the Rivera of the Middle East 🙄

Just now, stevenl said:

I worked in Bulgaria and would recommend it.

Sofia or someplace else there?

Just now, Wuvu2 said:

Sure, Ukraine is lovely, but I'm holding out for Gaza. I hear it's gonna be the Rivera of the Middle East 🙄

I'm sure Kushner would be happy to sell you a gold paint plated penthouse unit.

Back to Ukraine. after they win the war there will have huge potential for a tourism industry. There are so many people in the world that support and admire Ukraine that would be curious to see it in person. Of course, retirement expatriation follows from tourism for those who try it and like it.

Perhaps more reason to try to take back Crimea. That is a tourism gold mine.

Edited May 2May 2 by Jingthing

"I was surprised to see Lviv Ukraine on a list of suggested charming places to retire abroad."

Go for it Jing. Are you under 70? The Ukrainian press gang probably would sweep you up and take you to the Russia Front. Or? I'm thinking you might just volunteer for the International AFU forces in exchange for residency or citizenship. Would you go volunteer to kill "Ivan" in exchange for citizenship (if you live). Now there's a plan for real Russian-haters.

Why anyone would consider a country in ruins as a valuable retirement destination is beyond me. Maybe someone with too much time on his hands?

Ukraine is not in ruins.
Certain parts are though mostly in the east.

Just now, Jingthing said:

Sofia or someplace else there?

I worked in Sofia and would recommend it. Nice city, modern and very close to quiet nature as well.

If i were to retire there, i'd also consider Burgas and Varna.

Just now, stevenl said:

I worked in Sofia and would recommend it. Nice city, modern and very close to quiet nature as well.

If i were to retire there, i'd also consider Burgas and Varna.

Thanks. Plovdiv gets a lot of good retire abroad press. Obviously quieter and cheaper than Sofia and apparently not that far away.

Edited May 2May 2 by Jingthing

Just now, Jingthing said:

Thanks. Plovdiv gets a lot of good retire abroad press. Obviously quieter and cheaper than Sofia and apparently not that far away.

I think it will be a 1.5 hour flight.

I don't think there's much difference pricewise between Sofia and other cities. Look outside of any of the cities and living gets really cheap. But i wouldn't want to live there, same as i don't want to live in most of issaan.

Wait, you mentioned Plovdiv, in my mind you said Varna. Plovdiv is relatively close to Sofia, but i missed old town charm there.

Edited May 2May 2 by stevenl

Some advantages of Bulgaria over many other places.

Good health care system.

10 percent flat tax rate.

For Americans, no tax on Social Security and double taxation treaty

Path to permanent residency

Schengen country so ease of travel in Europe

There are quite a few western "scouts" (in retirement age) roaming around in former "eastern Europe". Clearly the Dollar and the Euro will go a long ways. In Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria. In coastal cities even some English is spoken. Younger folks are heading to those destinations. With the result that "rural aereas" suffer from "de-population", especially concerning younger people.

With the result, that entire farms can be purchased for an apple and and egg. (Or peanuts, if you will). And no English spoken in rural Bulgaria.

The Bulgarians: We are geographically and mentally so close to Russia we don't know what our future will bring. Something like that makes for low real-estate prices. And uncertainty.

Just now, swissie said:

There are quite a few western "scouts" (in retirement age) roaming around in former "eastern Europe". Clearly the Dollar and the Euro will go a long ways. In Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria. In coastal cities even some English is spoken. Younger folks are heading to those destinations. With the result that "rural aereas" suffer from "de-population", especially concerning younger people.

With the result, that entire farms can be purchased for an apple and and egg. (Or peanuts, if you will). And no English spoken in rural Bulgaria.

The Bulgarians: We are geographically and mentally so close to Russia we don't know what our future will bring. Something like that makes for low real-estate prices. And uncertainty.

Speaking of real estate, Serbia has an unusually good offer to expats.

Temporary residency if buying housing and living in it (subject to certain rules) but no minimum value. Path to permanent residency after five years. Novi Sad is a popular choice.

On 4/30/2026 at 7:30 PM, Jingthing said:

I was surprised to see Lviv Ukraine on a list of suggested charming places to retire abroad.

I was not surprised to see that you are still evaluating places to escape to, from Thailand, for your eventual retirement destination, at such a time when you have finally become too tired to post here on the TV Forum.

But, really: You should evaluate China.

I am now planning to retire to China, if you can believe it.

One thing though: I cannot understand why there are a few people who decided to leave China, just to retire in places which are so inferior, such as Serbia/Siberia.

By the way: There are plenty of Chinese guys who are looking at Serbia as a place to live, after leaving China.

Serbia?

What a dump!

I actually knew a guy who returned to Serbia, from Thailand, just to take a....

DEEP DIVE off one of those Soviet Style Condos.....

He never lived to tell the tale of his downward plunge.

Feel free to retire to Serbia, if you will.

Talk about a chocolate covered onion.

As for me, I prefer to retire, when I reach retirement age, to Polynesia.....and beyond.....

The Soviet architecture can, in no way, Trump great art.

Have fun in Serbia, if you are coming from the Gulag.

Edited May 5May 5 by GammaGlobulin