Are Isaan Farmers 'poor'?

[meemiathai]

Can people tell me how a poor isaan peasant girl can come out of poverty? So I can advise my family in law what to do.

[tijnebijn]

Can people tell me how a poor isaan peasant girl can come out of poverty? So I can advise my family in law what to do.

Hook up with a rich farang will do .

[meemiathai]

You mean I should take also the 2 sisters in law as wives?

but I am not a rich farang.

[Briggsy]

Can people tell me how a poor isaan peasant girl can come out of poverty? So I can advise my family in law what to do.

Don't laugh, I'm being serious.

Ratchaphat, Ramkhamhaeng or Sukhothai Thammirat universities.

[meemiathai]

Can people tell me how a poor isaan peasant girl can come out of poverty? So I can advise my family in law what to do.

Don't laugh, I'm being serious.

Ratchaphat, Ramkhamhaeng or Sukhothai Thammirat universities.

Can you explain precisely how?

I thought Cambridge or Oxford were better?

[JohnnyThai]

a. start construction company

b. pay workers from poor province 200 baht a day for manual labor

c. profit

labor is so cheap in thailand that makes it very easy to make a profitable business.

[tijnebijn]

You mean I should take also the 2 sisters in law as wives?

but I am not a rich farang.

So aren't they .

[meemiathai]

a. start construction company

b. pay workers from poor province 200 baht a day for manual labor

c. profit

labor is so cheap in thailand that makes it very easy to make a profitable business.

Or

a. write a book named harry porter

b. design a software called windows

c. run a casino in macau

[Jersey_UK]

Can people tell me how a poor isaan peasant girl can come out of poverty? So I can advise my family in law what to do.

Don't laugh, I'm being serious.

Ratchaphat, Ramkhamhaeng or Sukhothai Thammirat universities.

Can you explain precisely how?

I thought Cambridge or Oxford were better?

Education. Firstly formal (bits of paper) and secondly "the facts of life".

Formal

Make her go to school, and ensure it is drilled into her that her ONLY way out of repeating her families history of working 24/7 in a paddy field or sucking c#cks on a commercial scale in Pattaya (like some of her neighbours "missing" daughters) is through Education...........so she better work bloody hard at school and with her homework and pass her exams.

Scrimp and save to ensure she can go to school, even if it means not having a new Mobile phone every 6 months.

Learn English. Properly. - having a Farang in the family is a free resource (and not just from formal lessons).

Learn how Farang THINK and learn about Farangland.

Make sure she is IT literate (if she has the aptitude for an IT career all well and good - but no need to understand how they work - most people use Geeks for that!).

Get her using the Internet to discover the world outside of Thailand / SEA.

If she has been bright enuf to get to Uni then repeat the process for a degree that will also be useful in the real world.

Have a plan to use the degree, whether it be to get into the Thai civil service, police or reputable company. or something that could be used to start her own business. Possibly a career choice that would be useable / in demand in Farangland (Nurse? Doctor?.........Accountant? ). Explain that Air Hostess is not a real job

TELL HER that she CAN do anything she wants, but ONLY if she works bloody hard - tell her stories of folk who started with zero and now are rich / succesful or are just doing well. and tell her how folk who are poor AND lazy or stupid remain the same in both Thailand AND Farangland. Explain that her horizons are only limited by her imagination and hard work.

Facts of life

Having a kid before she has a career means she will always be poor AND dependent on others.

Somchai may truly love her at 14, but he will move on once he finds out how hard and expensive it is to raise a kid - she will be stuck with it. 24/7.

If she wants Somchai to stick his Banana somewhere make him wear a condom, or put it somewhere that does not make babies.

Drugs - Drugs are fun, but they will steal her future. Either by stealing her motivation or brain cells (literally) but more likely by giving her a criminal conviction which will f#ck up her future career prospects.

Think carefully about both freinds and family - consider what she gets out of the relationship as well as what she puts in and do not be afraid to cut people off or downgrade them to acquaintances.

Explain to her that Mrs Poontang from no. 47 got her gold necklace from sucking c#cks in Pattaya, that this is not as good a job as it may first appear AND explain that this career choice is NOT considered a "Good thing"........no matter how much money is made.

Explain that sucking c#ck is one of the more pleasant parts of Mrs Poontangs job. Having someone's fist stuck up your fanny or your sh#thole either before or after they p#ss on you is one of only many downsides to the job.

Explain that "Marrying Farang" is not a simple nor easily available option.

Explain "Delayed Gratification" to her. and that owning something with no debt IS far better than paying 20% more and being a debt slave to others.

Explain how marketing works and that although peers / family and TV may say that having the latest XYZ is needed / cool that they may be either stupid or lying. Money in the Bank IS fun, when it means not having to worry about being sick. having a roof or being hungry.

Explain that spending money to impress folk, both freinds / family and strangers makes you a moron (especially if done on credit ), unless their is a reason that will give a £££ return.

Explain to her that their will ALWAYS be folk who have more toys / money / stuff than her - it is stupid to compete - you will never "win" (as you become more succesful your circle changes).

Explain to her that she will often be under the impression that many (most?) others are having a better time / have more stuff - but this is often an illusion - you only see what is visible - you never see the hard work involved or the credit supporting the illusion.

Explain that in the real world folk get money and success from hard work, coupled with recognising opportunities and NOT from simply just waiting for luck and sitting on one's ar#e.

Started as a 2 line post............

[meemiathai]

Can people tell me how a poor isaan peasant girl can come out of poverty? So I can advise my family in law what to do.

Don't laugh, I'm being serious.

Ratchaphat, Ramkhamhaeng or Sukhothai Thammirat universities.

Can you explain precisely how?

I thought Cambridge or Oxford were better?

Education. Firstly formal (bits of paper) and secondly "the facts of life".

Formal

Make her go to school, and ensure it is drilled into her that her ONLY way out of repeating her families history of working 24/7 in a paddy field or sucking c#cks on a commercial scale in Pattaya (like some of her neighbours "missing" daughters) is through Education...........so she better work bloody hard at school and with her homework and pass her exams.

Scrimp and save to ensure she can go to school, even if it means not having a new Mobile phone every 6 months.

Learn English. Properly. - having a Farang in the family is a free resource (and not just from formal lessons).

Learn how Farang THINK and learn about Farangland.

Make sure she is IT literate (if she has the aptitude for an IT career all well and good - but no need to understand how they work - most people use Geeks for that!).

Get her using the Internet to discover the world outside of Thailand / SEA.

If she has been bright enuf to get to Uni then repeat the process for a degree that will also be useful in the real world.

Have a plan to use the degree, whether it be to get into the Thai civil service, police or reputable company. or something that could be used to start her own business. Possibly a career choice that would be useable / in demand in Farangland (Nurse? Doctor?.........Accountant? ). Explain that Air Hostess is not a real job

TELL HER that she CAN do anything she wants, but ONLY if she works bloody hard - tell her stories of folk who started with zero and now are rich / succesful or are just doing well. and tell her how folk who are poor AND lazy or stupid remain the same in both Thailand AND Farangland. Explain that her horizons are only limited by her imagination and hard work.

Facts of life

Having a kid before she has a career means she will always be poor AND dependent on others.

Somchai may truly love her at 14, but he will move on once he finds out how hard and expensive it is to raise a kid - she will be stuck with it. 24/7.

If she wants Somchai to stick his Banana somewhere make him wear a condom, or put it somewhere that does not make babies.

Drugs - Drugs are fun, but they will steal her future. Either by stealing her motivation or brain cells (literally) but more likely by giving her a criminal conviction which will f#ck up her future career prospects.

Think carefully about both freinds and family - consider what she gets out of the relationship as well as what she puts in and do not be afraid to cut people off or downgrade them to acquaintances.

Explain to her that Mrs Poontang from no. 47 got her gold necklace from sucking c#cks in Pattaya, that this is not as good a job as it may first appear AND explain that this career choice is NOT considered a "Good thing"........no matter how much money is made.

Explain that sucking c#ck is one of the more pleasant parts of Mrs Poontangs job. Having someone's fist stuck up your fanny or your sh#thole either before or after they p#ss on you is one of only many downsides to the job.

Explain that "Marrying Farang" is not a simple nor easily available option.

Explain "Delayed Gratification" to her. and that owning something with no debt IS far better than paying 20% more and being a debt slave to others.

Explain how marketing works and that although peers / family and TV may say that having the latest XYZ is needed / cool that they may be either stupid or lying. Money in the Bank IS fun, when it means not having to worry about being sick. having a roof or being hungry.

Explain that spending money to impress folk, both freinds / family and strangers makes you a moron (especially if done on credit ), unless their is a reason that will give a £££ return.

Explain to her that their will ALWAYS be folk who have more toys / money / stuff than her - it is stupid to compete - you will never "win" (as you become more succesful your circle changes).

Explain to her that she will often be under the impression that many (most?) others are having a better time / have more stuff - but this is often an illusion - you only see what is visible - you never see the hard work involved or the credit supporting the illusion.

Explain that in the real world folk get money and success from hard work, coupled with recognising opportunities and NOT from simply just waiting for luck and sitting on one's ar#e.

Started as a 2 line post............

Do you mind me calling you stupid if this was not meant to be a troll post?

[Jersey_UK]

Do you mind me calling you stupid if this was not meant to be a troll post?

Are you an Air Hostess?

Edited September 1, 2007 by Jersey_UK

[rainman]

That has got to be one of the funniest replies I've ever seen on here

[Heng]

It's certainly not the answer for all of the poor, but for a good number, yes, sensibility and foresight, especially over generations is all it takes for folks to leave the poor ranks.

Said by a self made man who had to fight his way out of poverty against all the odds.

[tracer5050]

[BADBRAD]

Do you mind me calling you stupid if this was not meant to be a troll post?

Are you an Air Hostess?

No, he is the Master Baiter

[Maigo6]

Explain that in the real world folk get money and success from hard work, coupled with recognising opportunities and NOT from simply just waiting for luck and sitting on one's ar#e.

How many people in the glorious west are on welfare, Social Security, sickness benefits, State Pensions, disability allowance, in Jail, addicted to drugs, pregnant at 15, etc etc etc...................

It's the way of the world, it's just that in the west, you can be a lazy good for nothing, and you can get taken care of by the state.

In countries like Thailand, it ain't that simple.

My younger sis is at Khon Kaen School of Technology, I want her to stay at school, fair enough, what will she do whe she has finished her education, get a great job with a high salary that enables her to have a lifestyle equal to what a person from the west can have? yeah right..............

Work 10 Hours a day serving food in MK Suki for 6000 Baht a month, maybe. 7 Eleven 4000 Baht per month, maybe.

Meet some Thai guy who also has the same prospects, she gets married, has a kid, stays at home, he gets a job in Bangkok in a Factory earning a pittance for long hours, I'm sure they'll prosper as a Family but it will take years and years of hard work, leaving the kid with her Mother and going to work in the Factory herself to try to get out of the poverty trap.

You can't begin to compare what is available in the west with what is available in other countries, go preach in Cambodia, Burma,Nepal, Laos, North Korea, Africa etc etc, are all those people lazy and stupid, I'm sure YOU could survive like they do....yeah right. You wouldn't survive a Month, they have to spend a lifetime surviving.

Having that British Passport of yours is your Security, you can fork up big style and all you need is a return ticket home to the welfare state, many of the worlds population don't have that same security.

Even the UK unemployed can afford overseas holidays, I used to know loads of guys that used to come to Thailand who are on Benefits back in UK, they used to claim for everything, rent out their house or flat that was being paid for by the government and come to Thailand, their money was paid directly into a bank account they never even had to sign on.

I just wonder how people in the west would get on with low wages and no benefits or welfare state to fall back on .

[cdnvic]

I'm appalled. More that I'm in agreement with Maigo6 for once than anything. If you think that in the western world people don't think that luck is their way out of poverty then you haven't seen the lineup for lottery tickets when a big jackpot is available.

[Maigo6]

I'm appalled. More that I'm in agreement with Maigo6 for once than anything.

[WaiWai]

Nonetheless, I'd say Jersey_UK's advice to meemiathai describes the pathway of the Thais I know who have pulled themselves out of the poverty trap.

Study hard, get educated, learn English/Japanese/Chinese, learn computer skills, get a driving licence, run a small business to get experience & cash, get to know lots of people, including foreigners, network, read about business/your chosen profession, etc etc etc.

And the air-hostess retort was pretty good .

[wileycoyote]

Good advice WaiWai.

[siamamerican]

I'm appalled. More that I'm in agreement with Maigo6 for once than anything. If you think that in the western world people don't think that luck is their way out of poverty then you haven't seen the lineup for lottery tickets when a big jackpot is available.

Many in the west do work hard, not to get out of poverty, but to get ahead. As for America, a minority, don't care about getting ahead. They just work the system to get by.

If you're unlucky enough to have an official human resource department where you work and manage people, life can get very frustrating.

For example, firing someone over poor performance usually entails multiple written warnings, the employee going on stress leave, the employee returning from stress leave, more writer ups, another stress leave... If the employee is in a protected class don't even waste your time starting the process.

I've given up and just instructed my mangers to pay the employees to quit. Basically tell them they aren't a good fit and offer to pay them for a month or two while they look for another job. They usually jump at that and are appreciative. HR recently told me that this was demeaning, so it's back to write ups that I'm sure give recipients a warm fuzzy feeling.

As frustrating as the system is, Americans seem to still make money. Maybe I'm focussing on the micro issues and not realizing the macro benefits.

[meemiathai]

Do you mind me calling you stupid if this was not meant to be a troll post?

Are you an Air Hostess?

No, he is the Master Baiter

I'm not sure if that is a compliment.

[meemiathai]

Nonetheless, I'd say Jersey_UK's advice to meemiathai describes the pathway of the Thais I know who have pulled themselves out of the poverty trap.

Study hard, get educated, learn English/Japanese/Chinese, learn computer skills, get a driving licence, run a small business to get experience & cash, get to know lots of people, including foreigners, network, read about business/your chosen profession, etc etc etc.

And the air-hostess retort was pretty good .

If J-UK hadn't post the so called facts of life, his post would have been at most unrealistic.

Is he trying to say that all isaan girls who have not come out of poverty are the ones he has described?

I have to wonder how he sees thai people. How much he looks down on thai people? He must be walking in the streets of thailand and look at each person and thinks you lazy bitch, you lazy bastard.

Well I don't get that air-hostess post. Can someone explain to me?

[Jersey_UK]

Nonetheless, I'd say Jersey_UK's advice to meemiathai describes the pathway of the Thais I know who have pulled themselves out of the poverty trap.

Study hard, get educated, learn English/Japanese/Chinese, learn computer skills, get a driving licence, run a small business to get experience & cash, get to know lots of people, including foreigners, network, read about business/your chosen profession, etc etc etc.

And the air-hostess retort was pretty good .

That is pretty much what I was trying to say.............just that I do rabbit on a "bit"

[Jersey_UK]

Interesting reactions to my post - and quite surprising. Way too much to respond to line by line.........perhaps some of my post was also a bit blunt

But let me say that I do not claim to have all the answers (hey, it was only 1 post with a few ideas, not the definititive guide to ending world poverty!) and nor do I mean to suggest that getting out of "Poverty" is ever easy..........if it was there would of course be no poor But it does not mean it is impossible. even in Thailand..........and requires not only hard work, but also knowledge and a self belief that it is possible. Education has always been a way out of poverty, not only for the stuff that is learnt and the bits of paper accumulated and which can be used to enter the job market - but by also raising horizons, expectations and presenting different opportunities.

Educating children does however require the support of a family who appreciate the value of education.......the Family is often the biggest problem that the next generation of poor face. Thailand same same Farangland.

Explain that in the real world folk get money and success from hard work, coupled with recognising opportunities and NOT from simply just waiting for luck and sitting on one's ar#e.

In countries like Thailand, it ain't that simple.

My younger sis is at Khon Kaen School of Technology, I want her to stay at school, fair enough, what will she do whe she has finished her education, get a great job with a high salary that enables her to have a lifestyle equal to what a person from the west can have? yeah right..............

Work 10 Hours a day serving food in MK Suki for 6000 Baht a month, maybe. 7 Eleven 4000 Baht per month, maybe.

I never said it was "simple" and I know folk who have done more than work 7-11, but then again maybe for some 7-11 is an improvement or at least a stepping stone.

You can't begin to compare what is available in the west with what is available in other countries, go preach in Cambodia, Burma,Nepal, Laos, North Korea, Africa etc etc, are all those people lazy and stupid, I'm sure YOU could survive like they do....yeah right. You wouldn't survive a Month, they have to spend a lifetime surviving.

Having that British Passport of yours is your Security, you can fork up big style and all you need is a return ticket home to the welfare state, many of the worlds population don't have that same security.

I never called poor people lazy and stupid, I said that poor people who were lazy and / or stupid would remain poor (not to say that smart poor people who work hard all get out of poverty ).

Me surviving in the 3rd world? As I already have a level of education and experiances of the wider world I can honestly say that I would not be poor long. How? You know all those rich westerners (who are quite happy to have "my" family working for a dollar a day to make their cheap "luxury" items?) - well I would start there and not be too fussed how I went about "redistributing" wealth. Kidneys on E-bay? I would have no problem with that. or worse. I am not saying I am typical of all Farang or that I am cleverer than others - but I am blessed by having few morals

BTW down here in Jersey (edge of the Empire ) ain't no "welfare state". Sure you don't die of no money like in Thailand and you do get £££ handouts to feed yourself / family and lots of social housing - but ain't no "entitlement" to wads of hard cash like the English system which encourages stupidity to keep breeding (but that is all another thread ).

[Jersey_UK]

If J-UK hadn't post the so called facts of life, his post would have been at most unrealistic.

Is he trying to say that all isaan girls who have not come out of poverty are the ones he has described?

I have to wonder how he sees thai people. How much he looks down on thai people? He must be walking in the streets of thailand and look at each person and thinks you lazy bitch, you lazy bastard.

I can't recall ever saying "all" (been on TV far too long to do that )..........I accept that what I wrote may be unrealistic for some / many given their circumstances - but Thailand is NOT the Congo............

How do I see Thai people? Well, I usually don't see them as merely Thai - people first. I have met some great Thai people and some complete shites Same same Farang.

Well I don't get that air-hostess post. Can someone explain to me?

Bearing in mind your strong comments on my post, it seems strange you do not seem to have read all of it - but possibly you are not a native English speaker?............But anyway, I did refer to Air Hostess as not being a "real job" (notwithstanding that in Thailand a degree appears to be a requirement to be a flying waitress) and I was asking whether my suggesting that your job was a joke is what had upset you (although obviously I knew that this was not the case) - plus it was a suggestion that you were not very bright as Trolley Dolleys are not known as always the sharpest knife in the drawer Of course any mental pictures generated to others of you dressed in a woman's uniform is beyond my control

Now, I would not usually be issuing personal insults - as I am far to adult and sensible..........but you started it by suggesting I may be stupid in a fairly clever, subtle and roundabout way (to which BTW I took no great offence) and I thought I would return the favour, also subtly........sometimes these things work and sometimes not

Edited September 2, 2007 by Jersey_UK

[andylee]

This started off as an interesting topic, but as usual it degenerated......

Anyway i was going to add my twopenneth, but i was waylaid by the thai men in my village who work on building sites inviting me to go and drink with them. The oldest 44 and the youngest 16ish (idont actually know).

My village is in buriram, and very poor, and i mean very poor, they earn less in a month than a farang from england would get from the dole in a week.

I personally know that most families in the village are up to their eyeballs in debt, its not because they want to be, its because of the economic system. A friend of mine who did buy a truck (50,000 bht) had to borrow 4/5 of it at a bad interest rate (for a farang that is). Most of the people in my villlage are in hock for their lifetimes. My family would have been if it was not for me. A family may be in hock for £4,000 ish, but when a grown man earns 200 bht a day there is little chance of paying that off.

Anyway getting back to the story, i was about to respond to the thread and was invited away to drink with the villagers who are farmers some of the time but have to supplement their income with working on building sites around thailand. It was a really hard choice replying on this forum (to 50%idiots, or drinking with people who invited me even though they have no money, (one of them had sold some offcut steel, and made a party out of it). Anyway as hard as it was i went to the impromptu party, drank and attempted to commicate, but enjoyed it more than posting.

FOR THE RECORD ..... THAI FARMERS (in my viallage at least) ARE VERY, VERY POOR ... HOWEVER IF THEY HAVE MONEY THEY WILL SHARE THEIR GOOD LUCK EVEN WITH A FARANG. We ate little bits of pork, mint and spices, then the fish soup appeared, both were nice.

It is a shame that the Thais have got me slightly drunk, but its up to them, they were working less today than usual as it was sunday and they not work 14 hours on sunday.

I think what I am trying to say is that they are very poor, they dont whinge about it like a farang who reads this website would.

My father in law could eat steak if he wanted to, he doesnt, he prefers insects, snails, small bits of pork, fish, as does all of my extended family. They do however like a coffee before they go to work at 6 or 7 am ( and i dont blame them, i have one at 8, 9 or 10am).

All I can say is live in a village, really, get involved (not totally involved before the negative posters start).

What I am saying is that yes they are very poor, they are nearly all in debt, they dont buy new isuzis ( like me) they live on snails, fish, bits of pork, rice, and various leaves. I am annoyed that they have got me so drunk because this would have been an intelligent post, however, the sad thing is even if this was the best post ever, the sad people who post on this site would have slagged me off.

I AM GLAD I HAVE SPENT THE EVENING WITH PEOPLE FROM MY VILLAGE RATHER THAN 50% OF THAI VISA POSTERS.

[WaiWai]

Point well made,lee - thanks for your (p*ssed) post.

[jts-khorat]

I would say, many are choosing (not consciously maybe) the lifestyle by the decisions they make.

That must be one of the most idiotic posts I have seen on Thai Visa in 4 years, including my own idiotic posts.

Agreed.

Ohoo, quite a bomb I have thrown there; being elected as the guy with the most idiotic post in 4 years is a thing I can appreciate, if it comes from somebody like Neeranam :-)

It would be nice however, Neeranam, if you could elaborate what was so stupid about it; for a good reference what I would say then, read the post of Heng, who is agreeing with me so forcefully.

To andylee: I have been on many such parties in Isaan, and enjoy them immensely, as I do the carefree attitude of those people. I feel well at home with them and would rather be living there than in Phuket where every human interaction with the Thais is only concentrated on extracting money. And as there is no language barrier, I am quite intimate with their problems with debt and poorness.

But why is it so difficult to see that squandering this tiny little bit of money they had for a party rather than spending it for something like a book was a bad life decision.

Around the same amount of money as they spent on this single evening would have been a book that, going through it properly, would have made all of them as a group semi-fluent in a foreign language; or at least given them a good advantage on being accepted on the next out-of-country construction job.

But how many Thais do you know that speak Arabic or Hebrew or any other language that accepts them as migrant workers, without having been there first (and many that I know that had been two or three tours in Taiwan would not be able to string a sentence together because they did not venture a step outside their ghetto -- while others did and profited quite nicely from their knowledge)...?

Bad life decisions make or keep you poor. Drugs, drinking and siesta does not make you richer, while learning might.

I really cannot see what is wrong with those statements. Somebody enlighten me please...

[Heng]

Losing that drinking habit would be a good start of many poor folks (not saying they are ALL drinking of course).