Is Thailand Good For Kids?

[RotyGirl]

Myself and my hubby have lived in Spain for 5 years but have recently come back due to very bad education in the private schools for our 8 year old. I have travelled around Thailand nearly 15 years ago so am abit rusty on the areas, but wondered if anyone can give me some advice.We have been accepted to move to South Africa but when i was last there(2 months ago)the violence stilled worried me alittle. What is the violence like in Thailand and are the schools any good.Is it an easy place to relocate to or is it quite difficult for brits. And finally what are the job prospects like and do we need to speak thai?( it took me long enough to speak Spanish)... Thanks in advance to any replies ta Rotygirl

[KevinN]

Thailand schools are not that good,everyone sends their kids out specially for higher edu. that can afford it.

Thailand has the lowest edu. standards in Asia, and my wife is a teacher and I do not know how they can run their schools the way they do.

One thing is the OLD BOY network is alive and well in the upper echelons of edu. in Thailand.

I would not let one of my own kids go to school here,even to a private school, I checked out a couple of them in Chiang Mai when I came here,and my kid is going to school in the USA.

[Sarawudt]

Myself and my hubby have lived in Spain for 5 years but have recently come back due to very bad education in the private schools for our 8 year old. I have travelled around Thailand nearly 15 years ago so am abit rusty on the areas, but wondered if anyone can give me some advice.We have been accepted to move to South Africa but when i was last there(2 months ago)the violence stilled worried me alittle. What is the violence like in Thailand and are the schools any good.Is it an easy place to relocate to or is it quite difficult for brits. And finally what are the job prospects like and do we need to speak thai?( it took me long enough to speak Spanish)... Thanks in advance to any replies ta Rotygirl

Unfortunately Khun Kevin is right, every Thai who can afford it will not send their children to a Thai school. The overall quality is improving but still too low as compared to for instance Japan. The quality of life for children is also lower than in Europe, forget about taking the bicycle on sukhumvit. Forget about walking to friends, playing football in the evening.

If I were you I'd make a change for the better, not for the worse.

[NaiGreg]

checked out a couple of them in Chiang Mai when I came here,and my kid is going to school in the USA. 

Yikes!! Be careful which US school district you allow your kids to attend school in. Very dicy indeed! (My brother is a middle school teacher and I taught at an American college for six years)

I have only two words to say on this subject; Homeschooling! (actually, that would be a single compound word) and then university in the US or UK or wherever.

Okay, since my Thai-American daughter is 5 months old and I think about this subject alot, I'll offer a few more words.

Combine loving, multi-lingual homeschooling with a decent Chiangmai-area school experience (social & cultural skills) with golf instruction and cello on Saturdays! Presto! A gifted child AND my retirement plan! I have not yet worked out the details, but I have time. (I know a golf instructor but have not heard of a cello instructor in the Chiangmai area. If you have, please let me know.)

[chonabot]

The quality of life for children is also lower than in Europe, forget about taking the bicycle on sukhumvit. Forget about walking to friends, playing football in the evening.

If I were you I'd make a change for the better, not for the worse.

Perhaps in Bangkok , but in the North East at least I believe there is more fun to be had by young kids growing up , certainly moreso than in Modern Britain.

My 6 year old spends 6 weeks a year in Los , since his birth , kids are treated better IMO , have way more to do, everyday he asks me " Dad , when are we moving to Thailand?"

Just my opinion...

[OldAsiaHand]

The quality of life for children is also lower than in Europe, forget about taking the bicycle on sukhumvit. Forget about walking to friends, playing football in the evening.

Although I also agree with the other posters concerning the very low education standards in Thailand, both in Thai and international schools, it seems to me that this comment about quality of life for children in Thailand may be even more important.

Thailand is a truly a horrible place for children to have to grow up. Bangkok is a cesspool and the provinces are the Third World. For God's sake, don't voluntarily take your children to Thailand looking for a better life. They'll find anything but that there.

We got our children out as soon as we could (as do a great many middle and upper class Thais, you will discover). We've never regretted it for a moment.

[Sarawudt]

The quality of life for children is also lower than in Europe, forget about taking the bicycle on sukhumvit. Forget about walking to friends, playing football in the evening.

Although I also agree with the other posters concerning the very low education standards in Thailand, both in Thai and international schools, it seems to me that this comment about quality of life for children in Thailand may be even more important.

Thailand is a truly a horrible place for children to have to grow up. Bangkok is a cesspool and the provinces are the Third World. For God's sake, don't voluntarily take your children to Thailand looking for a better life. They'll find anything but that there.

We got our children out as soon as we could (as do a great many middle and upper class Thais, you will discover). We've never regretted it for a moment.

The quality of life is a main issue, at top international schools in Bangkok were the majority of students is white big problems exist with these students, they have got nothing to do in their free time and develop behavioral problems. What can they do after school?

Any decision to come to Thailand 'for the kids' is a grave lie, Thailand does not offer a future for children. But letting them grow up here you deprive them as well from a future in the west as they won't be able to compete anymore.

[Up2U]

If you want to live / work in SE Asia, either go to Hong Kong or Singapore if your kids are to stay with you.

I worked in most countries in the Middle East and SE Asia, my daughter stayed in a boarding school in UK from the age of 8 1/2. (That was when we fled Iran during the revolution. She didn't fancy overseas life any more)

No other country in SE Asia offers adequate schooling, nor are there after-school facilities for 'Western' style kids. Just going to work in the paddy fields, papa's shop or whatever.

Also work opportunities are limited, unless you are posted there by a multi-national. Do not go to any of these countries in the expectation of dropping into a well-paid job. HK and Singapore have their own nationals educated to a better standard than Brits or Yanks, the other countries are too far behind to realise what they should have. So they stay with very simple and very cheap work requirements that their own people can fill.

[simple1]

To shed a little more information. My Thai stepson was until the age of 12 going to a Thai government school. Whilst English was a part of the curiculum he couldn't speak one world of English, let alone read English. I now have him in a Thai private bi-lingual school in Pattaya. I have read the Thai Education Department's targets that by the age of 13 Thai's being taught English as a second language should have reached a vocab of 450 words, by age 16 1500 words. I can assure that this target is very rarely achieved unless the child has an expat parent. Regarding quality of life in the Pattaya area their is very little, indeed nearly zero, publicly available infrastructure for children to utilise other than the beaches. Unfortunately the sea in the Pattaya area is polluted, but there are programs under way to address this particlar problem.

[astral]

The quality of life for children is also lower than in Europe, forget about taking the bicycle on sukhumvit. Forget about walking to friends, playing football in the evening.

I would not want my children to grow up in Bangkok,

or any other capital city for that matter.

Move out of the city.

We live 100km out of Bangkok.

My sons play football regularly with other boys on our estate.

All ages playing together.

They can also walk or cycle to each others houses.

There can be a positive side to this comment.

In means you have to spend more time with your children and that is good.

Even if it does mean taking along a few of "the friends" on an outing to the zoo, Mall, go-kart track or whatever.

Futher education definitely needs to be outside Thailand

Edited July 27, 2004 by astral

[plachon]

Like Astral, I would not even consider subjecting any kid of mine to the cesspool that is Bangkok, but reckon there are worse places than bringing up a kid that upcountry Thailand............up to a point.

After all, there is far more to growing up than just getting "a good education", which can be all things to all people. Personally, I think you've got to balance the home life, outside environment, family, friends and schooling to find the right balance. And for that, right now, puts Thailand slightly ahead of UK for our 8 year old, but it's a close run thing. However, in a few years time, I think the balance will swing back the other way and UK will be the place to be.

To Chon me old mukka, for what it's worth, my daughter is always saying the same thing, but t'other way round i.e. "When are we going back to England Daddy?" She likes her school here, but has fond memories of her friends and school back in UK (Yes, she loved her first two years in primary over there, and used to skip to school every morning, come rain or shine!)

[Sarawudt]

After all, there is far more to growing up than just getting "a good education", which can be all things to all people. Personally, I think you've got to balance the home life, outside environment, family, friends and schooling to find the right balance.

I agree that there's more to growing up than just education, but in all aspects of a just society, care for people, knowing the difference between right and wrong, Thailand is not the place to be.

"Schooling" prepares for getting a job, what do you see your daughter do later in life in Thailand?

[chonabot]

After all, there is far more to growing up than just getting "a good education", which can be all things to all people. Personally, I think you've got to balance the home life, outside environment, family, friends and schooling to find the right balance.

I agree that there's more to growing up than just education, but in all aspects of a just society, care for people, knowing the difference between right and wrong, Thailand is not the place to be.

"Schooling" prepares for getting a job, what do you see your daughter do later in life in Thailand?

Methinks you do not like Thailand , care to discuss further?

[plachon]

After all, there is far more to growing up than just getting "a good education", which can be all things to all people. Personally, I think you've got to balance the home life, outside environment, family, friends and schooling to find the right balance.

I agree that there's more to growing up than just education, but in all aspects of a just society, care for people, knowing the difference between right and wrong, Thailand is not the place to be.

"Schooling" prepares for getting a job, what do you see your daughter do later in life in Thailand?

Don't think you read my post closely enough Sawawudt......... I said Thailand is the place to be for her at this age, but in a few years time and certainly by secondary school, UK will probably be the preferable option. By that time she should be truly bi-lingual, something that would be unlikely had she spent all her primary years in UK. She may forget much of the written Thai she's now versed in, but she'll always be fluent in spoken Thai, unlike most luk-krung resident in Britain. But the secondary education offered in Thailand cannot compete with UK, if a child wants a chance of going to Uni in the West (excepting the rather elitist, and ridiculously expensive private schools in Thailand).

[ianpants69]

I live in Bangkok with my wife and daughter and although I believe that Bangkok is a good environment in terms of the lack of violence and freedom of movement the main thing that concerns me as my daughter approaches school age is the very poor quality of education here.

I am a teacher and have first hand experience of just how bad even some of the private 'bi-lingual schools' are, curriculums don't exist, copying is encouraged rote learning is normal and I have seen many instances of what would only be described as severe child abuse in the west.

We will be leaving Thailand in order that my daughter can go to school in Singapore when she is old enough, does anyone have any suggestions on that front?

[chuckd]

My two sitang worth.

It would appear most of you think Thailand is not the place to raise your children. I have the opposite opinion. My daughter is 11 years old. We live just outside Pattaya in a nice estate and she attends a bi-lingual school. I am divorced so her mother (Thai) is not around. We speak English (she is fluent in reading and writing) and she speaks Thai (fluent reading and writing). She plays piano and will resume lessons in early September.

I am currently working in the Middle East for another month and then will retire for good. When there I take the time to help her with her homework, get her on the internet (fluent, yet again), take her to school activities and generally try to make her life as full as possible. Pattaya has a multitude of activities to occupy our time and if I could only get her interested in golf, I could die a happy man.

All of this having been said, I would not attempt to send her to the American schools here. I have heard horror stories about the students and their extra-curricular activities and frankly do not wish to expose her to them. In addition, the cost is prohibitive for someone retired, such as myself. Anybody out there to dispel these rumors, please jump right in.

The quality of life we have is very pleasant. We certainly do not live in a mansion but we have a much nicer home than we could have had in the US for the same amount of money. We are both happy with the situation and think it will work out for us. There are sacrifices that have to be made by living in Thailand. One of them is you will have to spend much more of your time with your children....but is that really a sacrifice?

[pebbles1982]

Hi! Am new to this forum, My fiance and I are considering moving to thailand (phuket) from New Zealand after a short trial period Of course! we would like to start a family in the next couple of years and that would place us in Thailand.

I was wondering if anybody here has any advise, warnings or thoughts for me on what it may be like,

[OldAsiaHand]

There are sacrifices that have to be made by living in Thailand. One of them is you will have to spend much more of your time with your children....but is that really a sacrifice?

You may not like me saying this, Chuckd, but I think in ten or fifteen years you will probably discover that the sacrifice has been made by your daughter, not you.

By growing up here and being educated here, if that word even applies, she will have almost certainly have sacrificed a chance to live a good adult life anywhere else other than in Thailand. It may be very nice for her here today there in that little house outside Pattaya, pleasant and undemanding, but she will almost certainly be poorly equipped for life outside of Thailand when she grows up. Reread all the posts above and hear that theme repeated over and over again by all kinds of parents from all kinds of backgrounds.

Of course if you don't want your daughter to have good chance at a life outside of Thailand, I guess that's a different matter. But as for us, that's a limitation we weren't willing to place on our children.

[chonabot]

Life outside Thailand? The way things are going Worldwide , I'm not sure which is going to be the lesser of 2 evils in 10/15 years time? Isn't that why most of the posters are here now?

[NaiGreg]

My daughter will grow up in Thailand with occassional [short] visits to see family in USA.

If she grows up to be like her Thai mother, she will be loved by her family, admired by her many friends, capable of traveling anywhere in the world (speaks English, Japanese, Thai and Kham-meung), very compassionate, very charming, with traditional Northern Thai (lanna) values. Oh, did I mention a good cook and skilled in nuat-boran?

Was her mother born into privilaged society? No, she was an orphan, raised in baan-nawk by a chao-na grandmother whom she adored. Every day I thank my lucky stars that I have a wife of such fine character.

Don't listen to the naysayers, here. Thailand can be a great place for kids, even falang kids. Be a good parent! Bring joy to their lives but let them be challenged!

[Phil Conners]

I'm also in Pattaya with Thai wife and our daughter who is now 8 and attending bi-lingual school here.

The quality of the education here is not as good as what I have been used to from Europe, but if you have money there are excellent International schools here. I don't know about the American school but I haven't heard of outrageous extracurricular activities from the Regents - on the contrary, they currently proudly announce two of their students won scolarships in UK and US. But bring money, lots.

Other than that I agree with both chuckd and NaiGreg.

[roamer]

I would like to know where this educational "promised land" is that people are so insistent their children should be taken out of Thailand for. If its the UK...yesterday a 16 year old was sentenced to life imprisonment for the stabbing to death of a fellow pupil. And that in a nice leafy area. Not the norm maybe, but it once again lifted the lid on the endemic bullieing culture that exists in the school system here. A survey revealed that 1 in 4 pupils had taken a weapon to school for protection and a significant percentage had taken a weapon to school with the intent of useing it.

As far as academic standards are concerned...given the difficulty they have to thrive at all in the above circumstances, by any standards the UK is dropping rapidly down in International league tables.

My Thai stepdaughter has spent the last 2 years at a wonderful primary school where we live in Camden, London. Thats where it ends. Were we to stay here and she had to move into the Secondary system it would be a very different story. There is only one school with an acceptable social and academic standard we would consider sending her to but there would be no chance of her gaining admission there. It is so highly sought after that the catchment area is reduced to a radius of less than half a mile and a 2 bedroom flat within that area attracts a premium of about £60K, on top of already extortionate prices, simply because its proximity to the school

As for the other schools, forget it. I've watched well adjusted, well behaved , happy kids move from my daughters school at age 11 only to turn into, variously, fightened , truanting ill behaved shadows of their former selves.

When Tony Blair became PM his pledge was "Education, Education, Education"... he then promptly used his clout to make sure his son did'nt go to any of the schools in the borough that neighbours mine (Islington) and bussed him across London to a decent school, most of us don't have that clout.

Next year we return to Thailand. I'm only too aware we face problems in finding a school we are going to be happy with. I know we are going to have to spend a lot of time working with our daughter to help her to reach a good academic standard. Thats what we do now anyway.

For the rest of it she will still be growing up in a society where manners and respect count for something, where there is a will to study. Hopefully we can make up for the deficiencies in the system. In the UK we would be constantly fighting against the peer pressure that the system exerts on many kids here so that even bright well meaning kids fall by the wayside.

Btw, I forgot to mention that the UK does come top of many European league tables, like the highest amount of teenage pregnancies, highest amount of teen abortions, highest amount of juveniles in custody, and a nice new statistic today, more than 25,000 kids admitted to hospital every year for "self harm".....what sort of pressure brings that on?

I'm not suggesting the system in Thailand is better, but anyone with kids in the system here knows only too well its deeply flawed and falling academic standards are the least of the problems.

[Sarawudt]

Next year we return to Thailand. I'm only too aware we face problems in finding a school we are going to be happy with. I know we are going to have to spend a lot of time working with our daughter to help her to reach a good academic standard. Thats what we do now anyway.

For the rest of it she will still be growing up in a society where manners and respect count for something, where there is a will to study. Hopefully we can make up for the deficiencies in the system. In the UK we would be constantly fighting against the peer pressure that the system exerts on many kids here so that even bright well meaning kids fall by the wayside.

I'm not suggesting the system in Thailand is better, but anyone with kids in the system here knows only too well its deeply flawed and falling academic standards are the least of the problems.

You should be honest and admit that you're planning to go to Thailand because it's you that has enough of the UK. Going to Thailand for the benefit of children is an ignorant stupidity.

And for a "society where manners and respect count for something".. I guess you have no clue. We Thais only respect those in higher positions, we wai friends, bosses, but we do not bother to wai the driver of our boss. And respect only for money, we have no problems with people dying on the streets of aids, we will not give Thai nationality to people in border regions who have been there for decades.

Just wait and see how much respect you will get in Thailand when your money will run out...

[capitalinvestment]

My children and I have been in Thailand for a few years now. Although it's a very child-friendly country, education is of a very poor quality. Total chaos at most schools. Schools that are run as businesses where "numbers" are more important than educational standards. Clueless Thais managing the schools and I mean clueless. As a result, when one reaches adulthood here and you ask what do you like to do in your free time, you'll get the most common answer, "I sleep, eat, watch TV". It's the 100-year old education system that simple produces vergetables really...

I have children of my own going to a private Chritian school here. I feel most guilty not having been able to secure a job transfer to a country with a real education system...

To my children, if you are reading this: I am sorry!

[plachon]

Interesting viewpoints on all sides here, especially Sawawudt's local perspective on education in LOS. As a matter of interest, were you educated locally or abroad? If the former, it doesn't seem to have done any harm to your critical observation abilities, an oft-repeated lament of Western parents about Thai schooling, but I assume it is the latter.

In fact, this is one of the main reasons that I feel it necessary to consider a secondary school education in UK essential for my daughter, as I want her to be able to critically analyse concepts and not grow up there is only one solution to any problem, as she surely would here in Thailand. The tick-box exam mentality is still prevalent here right through to university level, even though there is talk about moving towards more student-centered learning processes, it is years away from reality in the state sector. For all the ills of education in UK, (and I think inner - London example cited above is not necessarily typical of anywhere but large inner cities) it is still far superior to any state education a child could receive in Thailand. The out of school, "quality of life" factors, though are very subjective depending on personal circumstances far more than the basic quality of education factors in each respective nation.

[roamer]

Interesting viewpoints on all sides here, especially Sawawudt's local perspective on education in LOS. As a matter of interest, were you educated locally or abroad? If the former, it doesn't seem to have done any harm to your critical observation abilities, an oft-repeated lament of Western parents about Thai schooling, but I assume it is the latter.

In fact, this is one of the main reasons that I feel it necessary to consider a secondary school education in UK essential for my daughter, as I want her to be able to critically analyse concepts and not grow up there is only one solution to any problem, as she surely would here in Thailand. The tick-box exam mentality is still prevalent here right through to university level, even though there is talk about moving towards more student-centered learning processes, it is years away from reality in the state sector. For all the ills of education in UK, (and I think inner - London example cited above is not necessarily typical of anywhere but large inner cities) it is still far superior to any state education a child could receive in Thailand. The out of school, "quality of life" factors, though are very subjective depending on personal circumstances far more than the basic quality of education factors in each respective nation.

and I think inner - London example cited above is not necessarily typical of anywhere but large inner cities.

Well I would like to know where you got that idea. I have friends and family in some very desirable locations that are not immune to this problem, it is not simply an inner city problem. I would agree that at its best British state education can be superb, gaining access to it at that level however can be problematic. EVERYONE wants their kids to go to a good school and good schools are heavily oversubscribed with ever decreasing catchment areas, just the last few years have shown dramatic changes. This is caused not least by the fact that fee paying schools, whilst becoming ever more expensive, are no longer seen as a surefire route to a good university. Universities are coming under ever increasing pressure to positively discriminate in favour of children from less advantaged schools . Theres a paradox here, if your child can make it through a tougher, less academic school they are more likely to gain a good university place than if they had attended a fee paying school. Oxford and Cambridge are probably the last bastions of the old system that is surely crumbling.

I agree completely that the British system is vastly superior to the Thai tick box mentality. So would many other people, good luck in gaining access to the better bits of it.

Sawawudt, I think 24 years in Asia have given me a pretty good idea of the way things tick. My view of Asia is probably less rosy than yours is of the West. I'll let you know when my money runs out. Maybe then I might have to sell my mortgage free, surplus to requirements, London house. After I get fired from an extremely well paid job of course.

I'm not moving to Thailand for my childs education, my primary reason is business but I also happen to believe that with the correct input (time), allied to some very good private tution my colleagues kids benefit from, we just might make it.

[thaihome]

I haven't heard of outrageous extracurricular activities from the Regents - on the contrary, they currently proudly announce two of their students won scolarships in UK and US. But bring money, lots.

My nine year old step daughter boards at Regents in Pattaya. So far (1 year) I am impressed.

Bring about 450K baht a school year.

TH

[OldAsiaHand]

Just wait and see how much respect you will get in Thailand when your money will run out...

Well said. I supposed by now I should be used to it, but the number of foreigners here who think they understand Thailand better than any Thai still leaves me slackjawed. Oh yes, see all the lovely, gentle, smiling, simple people.......

[roamer]

So we automatically accept that any Thai regardless of his views, position , education and waist measurement, has a better informed view of all aspects of life in Thailand, as it pertains to us, simply because they happen to be Thai ? Got it....

[plachon]

[

and I think inner - London example cited above is not necessarily typical of anywhere but large inner cities.

Well I would like to know where you got that idea. I have friends and family in some very desirable locations that are not immune to this problem, it is not simply an inner city problem. I would agree that at its best British state education can be superb, gaining access to it at that level however can be problematic. EVERYONE wants their kids to go to a good school and good schools are heavily oversubscribed with ever decreasing catchment areas, just the last few years have shown dramatic changes. This is caused not least by the fact that fee paying schools, whilst becoming ever more expensive, are no longer seen as a surefire route to a good university. Universities are coming under ever increasing pressure to positively discriminate in favour of children from less advantaged schools . Theres a paradox here, if your child can make it through a tougher, less academic school they are more likely to gain a good university place than if they had attended a fee paying school. Oxford and Cambridge are probably the last bastions of the old system that is surely crumbling.

I agree completely that the British system is vastly superior to the Thai tick box mentality. So would many other people, good luck in gaining access to the better bits of it.

Probably from reading too many Grauniad articles bemoaning the quality of inner-city state education in Britain.

From personal experience, I can only relate that my daughter went to what was considered the "roughest" primary school in a small home counties town and thoroughly enjoyed her two years there. Amongst her play mates and friends were was a South African, Indians and Kurds (i.e. fairly multi-cultural, which I consider a plus), as well as Brits, and the quality of education was great. No complaints about state education whatsoever in the provinces, but I can only go by what I've read about some inner schools and their problems, especially with regards to recruiting permanent teachers, due to the chronic underfunding of successive governments. (Not a problem in other northern European countries I believe, but then they have phenomenal tax levels to pay for it).

Also remember that I am NOT referring to the private sector, which you clearly are in your educational choices for your offspring in Thailand. Let's not compare apples with oranges, but like with like. Private education in Thailand for me is not an option, and it's not just the cost.

Albert Einstein had it about right on most Thai schools when he said:

"It is in fact, nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction have not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry; for this delicate little plant, aside from stimulation, stands mainly in freedom; without this it goes to wrack and ruin without fail. It is a very grave mistake to think that the enjoyment of seeing and searchig can be promoted by means of sense of coercion and a sense of duty".