Englishman Arrested For Dealing Methamphetamine

[Minburi]

This loser will more then likely scream for the Embassy to save his sorry butt and the unfairness of Thai laws. I change my mind and think rotting in Thai jail is a waste of time and money. A bullet will deal with situation way faster.

[larvidchr]

Which is worse? The law or the drug??

When you have seen the dead body of a 15 year old girl, being forced to overdose by shots repeatedly fired into the pillow on both sides of her head, because she did not make enough money as a prostitute to pay for the addiction that she was lured into in the first place in the school yard as a normal healthy but naive young girl. you would know the difference, and she is just one of hundreds of dead addicts I have seen over a 20 year work period.

Not all people in society is mature or clever enough to make an informed choice whether to use drugs or not, drugs are highly addictive, they all without exception give brain damage, diminish your capability to learn and develop your intellect ( alcohol included ). So without doubt it can be concluded that drugs are bad.

Laws govern human behaviour, so we all can live together and socialise in a reasonable and safe way without harming each other, this means that many even actually live happy lives.

Kind regards.

Edited September 3, 2007 by larvidchr

[Scott]

But once she's dead, she really won't make much money.

Has anybody kept tally.

How many for legalizing it?

How many opposed to legalizing it?

How many for hanging (or being evisserated or whatever)?

How many for a life in prison?

How many for "but he really didn't mean it or understand and should be let go"?

[sriracha john]

It's a slow news day.... How can I add that as a poll to this thread or is a new one needed, mods?

[ColPyat]

The "wrong" part is the difference between lower levels of serotonin and your erroneous implication that serotonin production is stopped (made in another post somewhere else, as well, as I recall).

That and the fact that MDA is quite different from the simple "amphetamine" use you were describing.

Additionally, the article describes rat brains, which, while similar, are obviously not as complex nor indentical to human brains.

The use of marijuana (Cannabis) as a valuable treatment adjunct while withdrawing from amphetamine addiction wasn't mentioned in that article. Is advocating this therapy modality cited elsewhere?

Lets not get into a scientific discussion here - i am not qualified.

But, i am arguing from the view of someone who has used many drugs, and who has seen many slip into addiction. What makes meta amphetamines such as Yaa Maa so dangerous (and more so than MDA) is the low, when one comes off the high. The high is tremendous, a feeling of being empowered, invincible, incredibly happy. And unbelievable rush, physically felt with shivers all over your body. Heavy users often go for three days or nights without sleep, in absolute ecstasy, until sleep deprivation plays very strange things with the mind (i have never gone that far).

The low is the absolute opposite - deep depression, crankiness, exhaustion, restlessness, muscle pain, and pain in the mouth from the continuous teeth grinding. For an addict who mostly uses the drug to escape a rather depressing reality this low only multiplies his depressions, and the need for more is obviously incredibly bad.

When an addict is on a high, it is not dangerous to be around that person. It is though very dangerous when those people come down. Anything can set them off, and they are often unpredictable. Sleep deprivation can cause some very dangerous hallucinations, and they can react sometimes very aggressively for no reason whatsoever.

One has to have experimented to understand what happens with the mind of an addict. I have used it only a few times, and for me this low lasted two to three days with Yaa Maa, much longer and much worse than any other drug. I don't even want imagine how bad this is for an addict, and how strong the craving becomes.

It's all about brain chemistry - the brain gets used to the outside input of chemicals, and produces less chemicals itself. You feel happy - it's because your brain produces the right chemicals to do so.

As a therapeutic measure, ganja does help balancing the brain chemistry until the brain can produce enough own chemicals again. I have been able to rapidly cut the amphetamine low after my experiments with the use of ganja (valium and such works better, but prolonged use is as addictive as amphetamines). Often it takes months for an addict to get rid of the depressions, until the brain can produce enough such chemicals by itself. Unfortunately for some of the heaviest addicts - the brain is irreparably damaged.

I do not know if this is cited elsewhere, and i am sure that in advanced countries there are better methods available. But here often it is the only available substitute, it does work, and it is recommended (not openly though for obvious legal reasons) by many who are in the field.

Some here may easily have one day the problem of an amphetamine addict in the family, and will be at a loss what to do. Here in Thailand the therapeutic facilities are simply insufficient or non-existing, and one might easily be at a loss what to do. If the addict wants to stop, then one will have to support him or her. Ganja does help to soften the very bad withdrawal symptoms.

[ColPyat]

Which is worse? The law or the drug??

When you have seen the dead body of a 15 year old girl, being forced to overdose by shots repeatedly fired into the pillow on both sides of her head, because she did not make enough money as a prostitute to pay for the addiction that she was lured into in the first place in the school yard as a normal healthy but naive young girl. you would know the difference, and she is just one of hundreds of dead addicts I have seen over a 20 year work period.

Not all people in society is mature or clever enough to make an informed choice whether to use drugs or not, drugs are highly addictive, they all without exception give brain damage, diminish your capability to learn and develop your intellect ( alcohol included ). So without doubt it can be concluded that drugs are bad.

Laws govern human behaviour, so we all can live together and socialise in a reasonable and safe way without harming each other, this means that many even actually live happy lives.

Kind regards.

The majority of drug users does not end up in such misery though. Any substance is dangerous, including legal ones such as alcohol. A controlled legalization helps though to get drugs out of the mud of uncontrollable illegality, can help addicts not to slip into such utter misery, and responsible users not having to live with the danger of being accused of a victimless crime.

Illegality empowers crime networks.

[meemiathai]

I believe you should go to the core of the issue when dealing with the drugs debate.

Put simply, we should be demanding the arrest/execution of those responsible for making our societies so mundane/stressful that people feel the need to resort to drugs (of any kind) to 'escape'.

That is by far the lamest justification for drug use I've yet to read, and I live in a city full of hippies.

Blame everyone else, and take no responsibility for your own actions.

I understand what Jim's saying.

And if one is living in a society like I am living in that is say HK. I would say I agree with him.

I can see all the unfairness created by from the top to the bottom.

It is difficult to say when, at which point that the responsibility your own actions really should be shared by someone else.

I was actually thinking what a good post Jim's has posted.

[meemiathai]

Which is worse? The law or the drug??

Apparently the law.

It is a bloody insult to the human beings' intelligence!

[meemiathai]

This loser will more then likely scream for the Embassy to save his sorry butt and the unfairness of Thai laws. I change my mind and think rotting in Thai jail is a waste of time and money. A bullet will deal with situation way faster.

Never perhaps may you have to know someone or even have someone you care about commit such a so-called crime.

But if this does happen, I will like to see if you will be waiting to pull the trigger.

[meemiathai]

Which is worse? The law or the drug??

When you have seen the dead body of a 15 year old girl, being forced to overdose by shots repeatedly fired into the pillow on both sides of her head, because she did not make enough money as a prostitute to pay for the addiction that she was lured into in the first place in the school yard as a normal healthy but naive young girl. you would know the difference, and she is just one of hundreds of dead addicts I have seen over a 20 year work period.

Not all people in society is mature or clever enough to make an informed choice whether to use drugs or not, drugs are highly addictive, they all without exception give brain damage, diminish your capability to learn and develop your intellect ( alcohol included ). So without doubt it can be concluded that drugs are bad.

Laws govern human behaviour, so we all can live together and socialise in a reasonable and safe way without harming each other, this means that many even actually live happy lives.

Kind regards.

So may I ask in which country was that you were working for 20 years that drugs were legal?

I would like to live there.

[meemiathai]

I know people who are hooked on to drugs. I know people who only take drugs occasionally. I can buy any drugs anytime I like even if it is illegal. So why am I not a drug addict? Are people saying that everyone will become a drug addict if it was :)legalized?

It really does not affect me for drugs being legal or not. It is just that I can't stand stupidity and the society contradicting and fooling itself. I can't stand innocent people being put to death or jail for life! And that is very ugly! Shame on those who murder those innocent lives!

some of these people put to death or prisoned for life are usually dealing/trafficking drugs, not users- innocent no- stupid-yes. Shame on those who think theyre innocent.

Oh yes Oh yes! Of course we all know Diego Maradona is a victim that need to be saved, whilst the columbian village boy who tries to smuggle his cocaine in order to survive his bloody life is the villain who deserves to rot in he11!

Yes and I will believe in whatever religion you people try to preach!

[sriracha john]

The "wrong" part is the difference between lower levels of serotonin and your erroneous implication that serotonin production is stopped (made in another post somewhere else, as well, as I recall).

That and the fact that MDA is quite different from the simple "amphetamine" use you were describing.

Additionally, the article describes rat brains, which, while similar, are obviously not as complex nor indentical to human brains.

The use of marijuana (Cannabis) as a valuable treatment adjunct while withdrawing from amphetamine addiction wasn't mentioned in that article. Is advocating this therapy modality cited elsewhere?

Lets not get into a scientific discussion here - i am not qualified.

But, i am arguing from the view of someone who has used many drugs, and who has seen many slip into addiction. What makes meta amphetamines such as Yaa Maa so dangerous (and more so than MDA) is the low, when one comes off the high. The high is tremendous, a feeling of being empowered, invincible, incredibly happy. And unbelievable rush, physically felt with shivers all over your body. Heavy users often go for three days or nights without sleep, in absolute ecstasy, until sleep deprivation plays very strange things with the mind (i have never gone that far).

The low is the absolute opposite - deep depression, crankiness, exhaustion, restlessness, muscle pain, and pain in the mouth from the continuous teeth grinding. For an addict who mostly uses the drug to escape a rather depressing reality this low only multiplies his depressions, and the need for more is obviously incredibly bad.

When an addict is on a high, it is not dangerous to be around that person. It is though very dangerous when those people come down. Anything can set them off, and they are often unpredictable. Sleep deprivation can cause some very dangerous hallucinations, and they can react sometimes very aggressively for no reason whatsoever.

One has to have experimented to understand what happens with the mind of an addict. I have used it only a few times, and for me this low lasted two to three days with Yaa Maa, much longer and much worse than any other drug. I don't even want imagine how bad this is for an addict, and how strong the craving becomes.

It's all about brain chemistry - the brain gets used to the outside input of chemicals, and produces less chemicals itself. You feel happy - it's because your brain produces the right chemicals to do so.

As a therapeutic measure, ganja does help balancing the brain chemistry until the brain can produce enough own chemicals again. I have been able to rapidly cut the amphetamine low after my experiments with the use of ganja (valium and such works better, but prolonged use is as addictive as amphetamines). Often it takes months for an addict to get rid of the depressions, until the brain can produce enough such chemicals by itself. Unfortunately for some of the heaviest addicts - the brain is irreparably damaged.

I do not know if this is cited elsewhere, and i am sure that in advanced countries there are better methods available. But here often it is the only available substitute, it does work, and it is recommended (not openly though for obvious legal reasons) by many who are in the field.

Some here may easily have one day the problem of an amphetamine addict in the family, and will be at a loss what to do. Here in Thailand the therapeutic facilities are simply insufficient or non-existing, and one might easily be at a loss what to do. If the addict wants to stop, then one will have to support him or her. Ganja does help to soften the very bad withdrawal symptoms.

by all means, in our discussion of drugs and medications, let's not bother with something as trivial as science......

[ColPyat]

by all means, in our discussion of drugs and medications, let's not bother with something as trivial as science......

Especially when you have not brought any counter point to either my supplied source (and yes, MDA is different than crystal ice or Yaa Maa, but it still belongs to the same family of substances, and unless you propose dissecting human brains of test specimens we will have to be content with rats), nor offered any explanations, scientific or not, how amphetamines work that counters my unscientific explanations.

How, according to your knowledge then, do amphetamines work, and which therapy would you then recommend here in Thailand where there is hardly any network of therapies?

It is always easy to dissect posts with sarcasm. But would you mind sharing some positive input with the rest of us unscientific posters?

[wilko]

I had a discussion about drugs the other night with a guy who claimed he was 54 but looked about 70 - he had never taken "drugs" in fact he thought they were abhorrent (not his words). he smokes 40 cigs a day and was so drunk when he left he fell down the steps - the guy is a total drug addict, smoking and drinking himself to death - but because his drug is legal he can be smug and even look down one people whose drug problems pale into insignificance compared to his.

Do you drink because it's awful- no because you like what it does.....most people forget that any drug when taken is GREAT - that's why people take them again, whether legal, prescription or illegal we take drugs because we like the effect....as for deaths....the number of alcohol or smoking related deaths outweigh any other drugs to the tune of millions and the cost to society of alcohol related illness and death is way beyond anything illegal.

Edited September 3, 2007 by wilko

[meemiathai]

Which is worse? The law or the drug??

When you have seen the dead body of a 15 year old girl, being forced to overdose by shots repeatedly fired into the pillow on both sides of her head, because she did not make enough money as a prostitute to pay for the addiction that she was lured into in the first place in the school yard as a normal healthy but naive young girl. you would know the difference, and she is just one of hundreds of dead addicts I have seen over a 20 year work period.

Not all people in society is mature or clever enough to make an informed choice whether to use drugs or not, drugs are highly addictive, they all without exception give brain damage, diminish your capability to learn and develop your intellect ( alcohol included ). So without doubt it can be concluded that drugs are bad.

Laws govern human behaviour, so we all can live together and socialise in a reasonable and safe way without harming each other, this means that many even actually live happy lives.

Kind regards.

So may I ask in which country was that you were working for 20 years that drugs were legal?

I would like to live there.

I am still really really curious of which country it is exactly that those drugs were legal? Can anyone guess or enlighten me?

[kmart]

Some people seem more predisposed to addiction of substances than others. I've tried a lot of drugs throughout my life, and the only one that ever really hooked me was nicotine. Giving up and withdrawing from cigarettes was horrendous for me...

[wilko]

Which is worse? The law or the drug??

When you have seen the dead body of a 15 year old girl, being forced to overdose by shots repeatedly fired into the pillow on both sides of her head, because she did not make enough money as a prostitute to pay for the addiction that she was lured into in the first place in the school yard as a normal healthy but naive young girl. you would know the difference, and she is just one of hundreds of dead addicts I have seen over a 20 year work period.

Not all people in society is mature or clever enough to make an informed choice whether to use drugs or not, drugs are highly addictive, they all without exception give brain damage, diminish your capability to learn and develop your intellect ( alcohol included ). So without doubt it can be concluded that drugs are bad.

Laws govern human behaviour, so we all can live together and socialise in a reasonable and safe way without harming each other, this means that many even actually live happy lives.

Kind regards.

sounds like the kind of law that would have saved her life was gun laws - she obviously didn't want to take the drug - as she had to be coerced....

[Prakanong]

Some people seem more predisposed to addiction of substances than others. I've tried a lot of drugs throughout my life, and the only one that ever really hooked me was nicotine. Giving up and withdrawing from cigarettes was horrendous for me...

Some argue for the "Addictive Gene" - dunno about research in this area but if there was one then that opens a whole new box of tricks - the addict is then not at fault etc etc

[wilko]

Taksin's followers shot and killed between 2 and 4 thousand "drug dealers" - how has that affected the drug scene in Thailand?

[meemiathai]

The worst addiction for me was wanking apart from going on TV. When is the government going to do something, FCS?

Set a law up and save me from being a victim of wanking!

[meemiathai]

Which is worse? The law or the drug??

When you have seen the dead body of a 15 year old girl, being forced to overdose by shots repeatedly fired into the pillow on both sides of her head, because she did not make enough money as a prostitute to pay for the addiction that she was lured into in the first place in the school yard as a normal healthy but naive young girl. you would know the difference, and she is just one of hundreds of dead addicts I have seen over a 20 year work period.

Not all people in society is mature or clever enough to make an informed choice whether to use drugs or not, drugs are highly addictive, they all without exception give brain damage, diminish your capability to learn and develop your intellect ( alcohol included ). So without doubt it can be concluded that drugs are bad.

Laws govern human behaviour, so we all can live together and socialise in a reasonable and safe way without harming each other, this means that many even actually live happy lives.

Kind regards.

sounds like the kind of law that would have saved her life was gun laws - she obviously didn't want to take the drug - as she had to be coerced....

I think he was trying to say that he worked there for 20 yrs and that was a place where drug was legal. And that is why drugs should be illegalized. This is the only way I understand it.

sounds like the kind of law that would have saved her life was gun laws - she obviously didn't want to take the drug - as she had to be coerced....

Edited September 3, 2007 by meemiathai

[meemiathai]

The worst addiction for me was wanking apart from going on TV. When is the government going to do something, FCS?

Set a law up and save me from being a victim of wanking!

I can imagine someone posting something like " there was a guy in patpong who was wanked to death by 3 bgs!" and that is why wanking should be made illegal!

[ColPyat]

The worst addiction for me was wanking apart from going on TV. When is the government going to do something, FCS?

Set a law up and save me from being a victim of wanking!

I can imagine someone posting something like " there was a guy in patpong who was wanked to death by 3 bgs!" and that is why wanking should be made illegal!

If you keep answering to your own posts in this way, i am afraid that i might get convinced by the other side better not to propose legalizing drugs...

[coldcrush]

And now he'll be in jail for a 99-year sentence.

Well if anything it will get him off the gear, but not a nice way to do it. I think the guy will know the stupidity of what he has done, all be it to late.

[meemiathai]

The worst addiction for me was wanking apart from going on TV. When is the government going to do something, FCS?

Set a law up and save me from being a victim of wanking!

I can imagine someone posting something like " there was a guy in patpong who was wanked to death by 3 bgs!" and that is why wanking should be made illegal!

If you keep answering to your own posts in this way, i am afraid that i might get convinced by the other side better not to propose legalizing drugs...

Can you add something like this or , just so that I know it is not a robot posting? Mr Terminator?

I get the feeling it is Arnold Schwarzhenigger posting behind.

[larvidchr]

The worst addiction for me was wanking apart from going on TV. When is the government going to do something, FCS?

Set a law up and save me from being a victim of wanking!

I can imagine someone posting something like " there was a guy in patpong who was wanked to death by 3 bgs!" and that is why wanking should be made illegal!

If you keep answering to your own posts in this way, i am afraid that i might get convinced by the other side better not to propose legalizing drugs...

Can you add something like this or , just so that I know it is not a robot posting? Mr Terminator?

I get the feeling it is Arnold Schwarzhenigger posting behind.

You must be in need of a serious detox, I did not in anyway imply that drugs where legal in my country, i just made a distincion between laws and drugs. But by all means carry on wanking at least that wont damage your brain any further.

[meemiathai]

The worst addiction for me was wanking apart from going on TV. When is the government going to do something, FCS?

Set a law up and save me from being a victim of wanking!

I can imagine someone posting something like " there was a guy in patpong who was wanked to death by 3 bgs!" and that is why wanking should be made illegal!

If you keep answering to your own posts in this way, i am afraid that i might get convinced by the other side better not to propose legalizing drugs...

Can you add something like this or , just so that I know it is not a robot posting? Mr Terminator?

I get the feeling it is Arnold Schwarzhenigger posting behind.

You must be in need of a serious detox, I did not in anyway imply that drugs where legal in my country, i just made a distincion between laws and drugs. But by all means carry on wanking at least that wont damage your brain any further.

That is strange. I totally misunderstood your post then. I thought it was because drugs were legal in your country that you were bringing it out. So what was it we were arguing about then?

Oh btw, it could damage the brain. When those holier than thou says it will then it will.

[meemiathai]

One strange thing is you have quoted the wrong post. What are you having now? Can we share?

[canadiangirl]

I am not a neurologist, but i think my amateurish assessment was not that wrong:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/229/4717/986

Hallucinogenic amphetamine selectively destroys brain serotonin nerve terminals

G Ricaurte, G Bryan, L Strauss, L Seiden, and C Schuster

(+/-)-3,4-Methylenedioxyamphetamine (MDA), an amphetamine analog with hallucinogenic activity, produced selective long-lasting reductions in the level of serotonin, the number of serotonin uptake sites, and the concentration of 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid in rat brain. Morphological studies suggested that these neurochemical deficits were due to serotonin nerve terminal degeneration. These results show that MDA has toxic activity for serotonin neurons in rats and raise the question of whether exposure to MDA and related hallucinogenic amphetamines can produce serotonin neurotoxicity in the human brain.

I once had a conversation with a psychiatrist about MDMA and 5-htp (a supplement that claims to be a precursor to serotonin), relating to serotonin depletion in the brain. "Unofficially", lots of kids take 5-htp before dropping e, and after, to help recovery.

I was surprised to hear that

1) the serotonin mechanism in the brain is very poorly understood by modern medicine

2) 5-htp is being researched to treat depression

3) maybe mdma and 5-htp tamper with the serotonin mechanism, but so do modern anti-depressants like SSRIs.

[ColPyat]

I once had a conversation with a psychiatrist about MDMA and 5-htp (a supplement that claims to be a precursor to serotonin), relating to serotonin depletion in the brain. "Unofficially", lots of kids take 5-htp before dropping e, and after, to help recovery.

I was surprised to hear that

1) the serotonin mechanism in the brain is very poorly understood by modern medicine

2) 5-htp is being researched to treat depression

3) maybe mdma and 5-htp tamper with the serotonin mechanism, but so do modern anti-depressants like SSRIs.

Seems that nowadays kids are scientifically more advanced than we were when we were kids.

When we took speed, we often mixed it with valium to cut the edge. A heavy dose of valium at the end helped us coming down as well. When we took LSD we generally carried valium as well in case the trip went bad, which is an extremely uncomfortable experience.

The worst, and longest lasting comedown i have experienced with any drug was with Yaa Maa.

Drug users often know very well what helps countering effects of particular drugs. The problem with illegality is, that education about the real dangers and effects of the particular substances is hardly possible, resulting in often very dangerous experiments with different substances.

Kids will take drugs, regardless of legalities. Some of the modern substances are extremely dangerous. Education about drugs is for me not just about the dangers, but also if taken, how it should be taken to minimalise damage, which can be considerable.